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Fluidz
2011-10-21, 09:07 AM
Say you have a skill that takes 200ms to completely cast and be reset for the next use.

One would assume that you can perform 60 000 / 200 of that skill per minute, so 300.

But your weapon speed is Normal (6).

Does your weapon speed matter? I see on the forums many people doing the DPS calculations without including the weapon speed. Does it contribute delay?

If so, where are all the delays for each level of weapon speed and would the result .'. be

60 000 / (200 + x)

where x is the weapon speed in ms.

Cheers for any help,

Fluidz

iAmFear
2011-10-21, 09:21 AM
Well, I'm not entirely sure but, most of the skill times given are based on the assumption that your weapon is normal(6). To convert to a different speed, you multiply the skill time by (10+x)/16, where x is equal to weapon speed, don't forget to include booster, and then round to the nearest multiple of thirty, you usually round up, I think, but sometimes you round down, and some skills, like hurricane, have fixed speeds.

kruimel0
2011-10-21, 09:23 AM
I'm not totally sure whether this is right (confirmation would be nice), but I thought this was the formula to get the delay for weapon speed:

(10+WeaponSpeed)/(16)*DelayAtNormal(6), rounded to the nearest (or lower? I don't know this) 30 ms, as Maple works in intervals of 30 ms.

That means with 200 ms delay at normal (6), at fastest (2), one would have 12/16*200 = 150 ms, which rounds to 150 ms.

EDIT: Ah well, since I'm ninja'd with the same formula, I guess it's right.

Fluidz
2011-10-21, 09:24 AM
Omg, I realised I just made the biggest derp ever.

I, for some reason, completely negated the Faster, Fast etc... on LazyBui's thread.

Sorry for wasting your time Fear.

I'm not totally sure whether this is right (confirmation would be nice), but I thought this was the formula to get the delay for weapon speed:

(10+WeaponSpeed)/(16)*DelayAtNormal(6), rounded to the nearest (or lower? I don't know this) 30 ms, as Maple works in intervals of 30 ms.

That means with 200 ms delay at normal (6), at fastest (2), one would have 12/16*200 = 150 ms, which rounds to 150 ms.

EDIT: Ah well, since I'm ninja'd with the same formula, I guess it's right.

Using that formula for some skills on Bui's thread gives different results.

E.g.

Strafe/Arrow Rain/Inferno/Arrow Bomb/Normal Attack
Faster (2): 600ms (-210ms)
Faster (3): 660ms (-150ms)
Fast (4): 720ms (-90ms)
Fast (5): 750ms (-60ms)
Normal (6): 810ms

.'. 810((10+5)/16) should equal 750.

It is actually 759.375.

What's going on there?

Or is that simply an error margin.

kruimel0
2011-10-21, 09:37 AM
Using that formula for some skills on Bui's thread gives different results.

E.g.

Strafe/Arrow Rain/Inferno/Arrow Bomb/Normal Attack
Faster (2): 600ms (-210ms)
Faster (3): 660ms (-150ms)
Fast (4): 720ms (-90ms)
Fast (5): 750ms (-60ms)
Normal (6): 810ms

.'. 810((10+5)/16) should equal 750.

It is actually 759.375.

What's going on there?

Or is that simply an error margin.

That's that rounding to 30 ms.

Maple doesn't do something every millisecond, but only reacts every 30 ms. Then it decides whether it goes to the next frame of the skill or ends it or sht.

Therefore, it's rounded to some multiplicate of 30ms, which is 750ms in this case. I'm unsure wether it's always the lower multiplicate, the higher, or the one that's closest by (although the higher isn't the case in this one, so I guess we could scrap that).
Seems like it's rounded to the closest multiplicate of 30ms, according to that list (14/16*810 is 708,75, and is rounded to 720 instead of 690).

ElderTree
2011-10-21, 10:05 AM
Looks like the formula has been covered. Also note that you cannot get any faster than Faster (2), even if you're using a Fast (4) weapon with Booster (-2), Speed Infusion (-2), and Advanced Yellow Aura (-1 or -2, I forget).

Does your weapon speed matter? I see on the forums many people doing the DPS calculations without including the weapon speed. Does it contribute delay?

Without the rounding part of the formula, you will notice that weapon speed just scales your damage by a certain %. (e.g., Fast (4) is 16/14, or 14.29% faster than Normal (6)). This affects all skills cast by the player equally across the board (all skills will do +14.29% more DPS). So if you're comparing a NL at Faster (2) to a Buccaneer at Faster (2), it would be equivalent to comparing them both at Normal (6) speeds. Yes, weapon speed should be considered if the two classes being compared reach different speeds based on the weapon & buffs. For comparing within one class, this is not necessary since the character won't be switching weapons between skills. :f2:

AND BEFORE ANYONE JUMPS ON THE 'EQUALLY ACROSS THE BOARD' COMMENT: Do note that I started that paragraph with the phrase "Without the rounding part of the formula". With the rounding, individual skills will vary slightly from the expected "+14.29%" DPS for a Fast (4) weapon. Yes, this means that the calculation isn't entirely accurate, but it's good enough for most things. For example, when trying to figure out which skill to use on 3 mobs, or which one to use on 4, unless the skills are within 1-2% DPS of each other, the weapon speed will not affect the relative ordering of the skills. Likewise, if class A is ~26% stronger than class B at Normal (6), the weapon speed won't have ANY influence on the RELATIVE strengths of the class ("XXX is better than YYY at ZZZ"). Yes this is roughly universally true since Cannon Shooters are the slowest (Slower (8) weapons -> Fast (5) after booster), and classes that reach the speed cap (Faster (2)) would have ~25% more DPS.

TL;DR: Weapon speed doesn't matter when: 1) Player A and Player B have the same speed, and 2) The goal of the calculation is to produce a relative comparison, and not a specific %/sec or #/sec.

Fluidz
2011-10-21, 12:24 PM
Looks like the formula has been covered. Also note that you cannot get any faster than Faster (2), even if you're using a Fast (4) weapon with Booster (-2), Speed Infusion (-2), and Advanced Yellow Aura (-1 or -2, I forget).

Without the rounding part of the formula, you will notice that weapon speed just scales your damage by a certain %. (e.g., Fast (4) is 16/14, or 14.29% faster than Normal (6)). This affects all skills cast by the player equally across the board (all skills will do +14.29% more DPS). So if you're comparing a NL at Faster (2) to a Buccaneer at Faster (2), it would be equivalent to comparing them both at Normal (6) speeds. Yes, weapon speed should be considered if the two classes being compared reach different speeds based on the weapon & buffs. For comparing within one class, this is not necessary since the character won't be switching weapons between skills. :f2:

AND BEFORE ANYONE JUMPS ON THE 'EQUALLY ACROSS THE BOARD' COMMENT: Do note that I started that paragraph with the phrase "Without the rounding part of the formula". With the rounding, individual skills will vary slightly from the expected "+14.29%" DPS for a Fast (4) weapon. Yes, this means that the calculation isn't entirely accurate, but it's good enough for most things. For example, when trying to figure out which skill to use on 3 mobs, or which one to use on 4, unless the skills are within 1-2% DPS of each other, the weapon speed will not affect the relative ordering of the skills. Likewise, if class A is ~26% stronger than class B at Normal (6), the weapon speed won't have ANY influence on the RELATIVE strengths of the class ("XXX is better than YYY at ZZZ"). Yes this is roughly universally true since Cannon Shooters are the slowest (Slower (8) weapons -> Fast (5) after booster), and classes that reach the speed cap (Faster (2)) would have ~25% more DPS.

TL;DR: Weapon speed doesn't matter when: 1) Player A and Player B have the same speed, and 2) The goal of the calculation is to produce a relative comparison, and not a specific %/sec or #/sec.

Thanks for that.

I guess I should read more carefully from now on :S