Wani's Rough Guide to an Un-HP-washing Dark Knight

[Wani]

(Yes, I just c&p'ed this from sleepywood)

I'm a level 140 Dark Knight, without any HP washing, and to be honest, we have it tough. We need to max (or pseudo-max) at least 2 skills before our main 4th job skill is useful, but! Here's how I think it can be done best. Or, my rough build, or how I'd have done it if I had I had a little more experience or guidance on 4th job. So, let's go!

L120 - 1 Rush (1), 2 Beholder (2)
L121 - 3 Beholder (5)
L122 - 3 Beholder (8)
L123 - 2 Beholder (10), 1 Maple Warrior (1)

Rush needs to be one of your first skills, or you need to have a point ready to put on it when you can do the quest. It's essential, really. However, level 1 is plenty for a long time.

Beholder comes next because that's the first skill that will make you stronger. The extra 20% mastery is passive, so you don't need to summon the beholder (It makes a nice wee waste of 60 MP for a kinda cool effect though :D)

L124 - 3 Maple Warrior (4)
L125 - 3 Maple Warrior (7)
L126 - 2 Maple Warrior (9), 1 Berserk (1)

I put Maple Warrior next because, despite the fact that if you party, you'll almost certainly have it anyway, I've found myself soloing way too much, and I don't know what I'd do without it. It helps, trust me.
EDIT: After what banditcom said, getting Maple Warrior later could be a good idea. I found the extra damage useful, but if you're partying a lot, there's really no point, and as he said, early Stance would probably be more useful.

L127 - 3 Berserk (4)
L128 - 3 Berserk (7)
L129 - 3 Berserk (10)
L130 - 3 Berserk (13)
L131 - 3 Berserk (16)
L132 - 3 Berserk (19)
L133 - 1 Berserk (20), 2 Power Stance (2)

Berserk next, because why not? Despite it being mostly useless for now, there are places where it helps. You can use it on weaker bosses, such as mushmom, geist balrog if your APQ party has no healer, or on weaker mobs, such as the Bain armory (Although I've found that to be bad exp)

However, if you can't get a Berserk 20 mastery book, don't bother getting more than 5 berserk. Cap your berserk at 5 until you have a mastery book for it, because L10 berserk is pointless. Don't bother with it. So, if you don't have a Berserk 20 mastery book, save your points or just continue with the next skill:

L134 - 3 Power Stance (5)
L135 - 3 Power Stance (8)
L136 - 2 Power Stance (10), 1 Aura of the Beholder (1)

Power Stance next because, as a DK, you're probably bossing fairly often, and it is really handy, and it does help with training, despite what people say. If you're hitting a mob and you don't get hit back, it helps you kill it faster.

L137 - 3 Aura of the Beholder (4)
L138 - 3 Aura of the Beholder (7)
L139 - 3 Aura of the Beholder (10)
L140 - 3 Aura of the Beholder (13)
L141 - 3 Aura of the Beholder (16)
L142 - 3 Aura of the Beholder (19)
L143 - 3 Aura of the Beholder (22)
L144 - 3 Aura of the Beholder (25)

This is the first of the two skills that will make your berserking life a lot easier. Since I started maxing this, I've found it useful, I no longer need to use HP pots when I'm doing cake (It's L13 for me right now), which I know, is a weak monster, but it just goes to show that it is helpful. 500 HP every 4 seconds is nice, and if you don't need a heal, it saves up the heal until you get hit.

Another note is this skill will not take you out of berserk. So if your berserking limit at L144 is 4350 or so, it won't heal you until you get below 3850 HP. And, like I said above, it will save up your heal until you get hit below there.

By this point, you really need L20 berserk, because you should (I might be wrong, I'm not quite 144) be able to berserk at himes.

L145 - 3 Power Stance (13)
L146 - 3 Power Stance (16)
L147 - 3 Power Stance (19)

More Power Stance now is optional, it's what I'll be doing because I boss run often. If you boss plenty too, go ahead with L20 Stance or save points for it (As, since Pap is being stingy to me, I'm likely to wind up doing), otherwise, skip it until later.

L148 - 1 Power Stance (20), 2 Achilles (2)
L149 - 3 Achilles (5)
L150 - 3 Achilles (8)
L151 - 3 Achilles (11)
L152 - 3 Achilles (14)
L153 - 3 Achilles (17)
L154 - 3 Achilles (20)

This is the other skill which will help your berserking. This lowers your damage by 10%. On himes, this is about 170 damage, down to 1500-1600, on skelegons, this is about 330 damage, down to ~3000, depending on what your DEF and such is. And yes, this works on all damage, including 1/1 attacks.

Another way to look at this skill is to consider it effectively increasing your maximum HP (Because you can take more hits), by 11% at L20. At L154, this makes your HP basically 17.2k or so, or a 1.7k HP boost.

As an aside, if, by some miracle, you manage to get and pass a L30 berserk book, put points on that ASAP. Not for the 30% extra damage, but for the 10% extra HP. It'll do a world of difference.

Otherwise...

L155 - 3 Berserk (23)
L156 - 3 Berserk (26)
L157 - 3 Berserk (29)
L158 - 1 Berserk (30), 2 Maple Warrior (11).

If you don't want to save SP, don't, otherwise save SP for Berserk 30. If you want, you can also start putting points on MW 20 if you happen to get that, or save points for it. Saving points for it is optional, I doubt I will, mostly because I don't need it for a while. It will make you more attractive in parties though/

L159 - 3 Maple Warrior (14)
L160 - 3 Maple Warrior (17)
L161 - 2 Maple Warrior (19), 1 Hex of the Beholder (1)

Again, saving points for MW is optional. If you want, you can also put a point on Hero's Will if you happen to be a good SED mule for Horntail. I don't see it as being too useful, but most skills from here are less useful, so order and such are entirely up to you.

L162 - 3 Hex of the Beholder (4)
L163 - 3 Hex of the Beholder (7)
L164 - 3 Hex of the Beholder (10)
L165 - 3 saved SP
L166 - 6 Hex of the Beholder (16)

You want to save SP there because you don't want L11-15 Hex of the Beholder. At these levels it gives 10 accuracy, 10 less than Bless will give you. You don't want that, so just save your SP until you can get it up to at least L16 (Similar to when you (probably) saved SP for Crusher when it was going to hit 1 monster, to skip that bit).

L167 - 3 Hex of the Beholder (19)
L168 - 1 Hex of the Beholder (20), 1 saved SP

Kinda big choice. Cap Hex of the Beholder at L20, before it gives atk buffs, or get it up to 25, which means you won't be able to use Beholder and Onyx Apples/Pineapple Chews at the same time. I'm probably going to get L25, and I'll simply not use my beholder if I want to use a better buff. In either case, you don't want L21-23 Hex of the Beholder. 24 is fine because that's the same as blood/warrior elixirs, 25 is better than both of those.

From there... up to you, really. Max Hex of the Beholder, if you want to, otherwise, use your points as you see fit. You probably should save SP for Berserk 30 and Maple Warrior 20 by here, or have the skills, and apart I'd recommend maxing Achilles next, or start getting Rush up to L28. I wouldn't bother with L29/30 Rush, they don't increase the range further, just the damage and the damage fails badly anyway. Power Stance L30 can wait until later, it's only 10% extra chance, and Monster Magnet just fails.

For convenience sake, skillbook locations:
Berserk: 20 - Zakum // 30 - Horntail
Power Stance: 20 - Papulatus Clock // 30 - Zakum
Achilles: 20 - Skeles (Not sure which, can someone answer?) // 30 - Manon
Rush: 20 - Left Pianus // 30 - Right Pianus
Maple Warrior: 20 - Horntail

The rest of the Dark Knight skills achieve higher levels from quests from the NPCs where you gain the skills.

So, any comments/suggestions/whatever?

[HiiEN]

Unless by some miracle you get Berserk 30 before 140 (by earning or buying), I wouldn't put points until the 140s unless it guarantees you the ability to 2hko Skeles or Newties. Sure you can survive, but it's useless if all you're gonna do is kill easy mobs with horrible exp ratios or kill bosses for the rest of your life. I think stance is more useful before berserk, so I'd max that before berserk (staying on the topic this is unwashed). Leave stance at 20 as you described, then get berserk to 20 (or max it if you get the book by then), then do aura. Following that would be achilles, which I'd max instead of leave out at 20. In my opinion Dark Knights don't need MW20 until way later, if at all. I leave that to the other characters to use it for me. For me, the order would be in the later levels:

Max Achilles > Max Maple Warrior > Hex, if I even decide to get it.

[ThisIsSal]

you know, it's honestly possible to use zerk unwashed in the 13x's at newties with the new hp percentage. Skeles is a big no-no, they kill me every 2%, but i zerk fine at newties and 2hko them 100%, nest golems in the 80%-ish.

died a couple of times at first, but it's getting easier as i practice o.o.

to the above: maybe stance is useful, but stance 20 books are fucking ridiculous. 120m? screw that. mw20 owns, why would you not want it?

[HiiEN]

you know, it's honestly possible to use zerk unwashed in the 13x's at newties with the new hp percentage. Skeles is a big no-no, they kill me every 2%, but i zerk fine at newties and 2hko them 100%, nest golems in the 80%-ish.

died a couple of times at first, but it's getting easier as i practice o.o.

to the above: maybe stance is useful, but stance 20 books are fucking ridiculous. 120m? screw that. mw20 owns, why would you not want it?
To answer your questions, the availability depends on the server. 120m for yours? It only costs 30m here. As for MW20, you don't need it if someone else has it. I would better be diverting my points elsewhere. I'll probably get MW20 sometime between before or after Achilles.

Also, I said don't put points into Berserk 20 unless you can 2hko one or the other monster. If you put points and can't pull off 2hko's, it becomes way too costly.

[ThisIsSal]

goddamn, it's only 30M in windia? christ on a moped, i'm moving a mule there and buying some.

[Wani]

Yeah, I'd say with the new HP percentage, you can serk 100% at newties. I would but I get sick of potting every five seconds because those bishes hit me so damn often. I can almost berserk 100% at skeles at L148, I just need to be a bit stronger, which I could do if my gear didn't kinda suck, to be able to 2 hit kill them.

As for MW20, I'm considering saving SP for it after I save SP for berserk 30, which I'm saving to get now. Mostly because I figure it'll get people to party with me more often. ^_^;

As for the berserk vs stance thing, I had this discussion in sw.net with someone, if you want to max Stance before Berserk, there's nothing wrong with that, but I think, with the new HP percentage, you should be able to berserk at himes with berserk 20 at 13x.

[Xelstyle]

Nice, I was looking for this. :D

[MasPan]

Unless by some miracle you get Berserk 30 before 140 (by earning or buying), I wouldn't put points until the 140s unless it guarantees you the ability to 2hko Skeles or Newties. Sure you can survive, but it's useless if all you're gonna do is kill easy mobs with horrible exp ratios or kill bosses for the rest of your life. I think stance is more useful before berserk, so I'd max that before berserk (staying on the topic this is unwashed). Leave stance at 20 as you described, then get berserk to 20 (or max it if you get the book by then), then do aura. Following that would be achilles, which I'd max instead of leave out at 20. In my opinion Dark Knights don't need MW20 until way later, if at all. I leave that to the other characters to use it for me. For me, the order would be in the later levels:

Max Achilles > Max Maple Warrior > Hex, if I even decide to get it.

One thing people fail to consider about berserk - even if you don't use it 100% of the time when training, if you think about it, it can be a great sudden damage boost after you get hit (get hit into range, attack, pot, and continue as normal). Even this will greatly increase your kill speed. Another option not mentioned is the guide is a Blood Build - instead of washing from MP into STR and placing level points in HP, you can simply pump points straight into HP for around a 400 point boost in HP (with HB) per level. A few levels of this won't severely hurt your damage, and can greatly improve survivability and length of berzerk time, overall increasing your DPS. This is what I am doing personally:redface:.


edit- one thing you fail to account for entirely is polearm dark knights - we will NEVER 2hko skeles with Fury before very late 4th job, unless we are dumb enough to use sacrifice (mind you this is without HP washing) while in berserk. Assuming sacrifice is able to 2hko a skele, the damage returned to the dark knight would be extremely dangerous and would probably place them 1 hit from death. We are...well...screwed...Nexon really did fail to give PA Dark Knights any real options for training...

[Fat]

berserk 20 is great, even if you're unwashed and you can't keep it 100% of the time, by using ginseng roots at himes you can get pretty decent exp. that's what i'm doing at 144 (well, i berserk with pops, but the exp is pretty much the same with roots) just get a priest to split with, and it's ok. once i upgrade my crappy spear i'll be able to 2hko skele 100% and i might move there.

[MasPan]

berserk 20 is great, even if you're unwashed and you can't keep it 100% of the time, by using ginseng roots at himes you can get pretty decent exp. that's what i'm doing at 144 (well, i berserk with pops, but the exp is pretty much the same with roots) just get a priest to split with, and it's ok. once i upgrade my crappy spear i'll be able to 2hko skele 100% and i might move there.

I'm pretty much doomed forever as a Polearm Dark Knight :f7:
Unless a new mob-based map is released, Fury is going to become completely obsolete, and sacrifice, as is common sense, is extremely dangerous to use with berzerk.

[MasPan]

Ugh, having some internet problems, so I double posted by accident - please delete.

[Fat]

even skelegons with PA isnt that bad, im getting close to 25k crushers with berserk30, and im not even that strong

[Wani]

I've seen PA DKs using fury at skeles, but yeah, you're right, my guide doesn't really take that into account. I'm not sure what you can do to adjust your guild though. You're still able to hime when a hybrid or spear DK can, you'll probably just have to hime for later.

[rattown]

personally going with 1 beholder followed by 20 beserk ... and i am unwashed with 12k hp at level 120 o.0. adding 3 levels worth of sp to get 300 more to your minimum damage when you can get level level 10 beserk by level 123 ... thats 3k or so threshhold*enough to take hits from gobis and skellaton fish* for an unwashed dk with a 1.5x the damage*at level 123 the damage per buster should be around 5k avg[this is what im doing now with buster at 120 ... so maybe a bit more by 123 ... but my 80 dex build and barely scrolled equips ... someone with good equips could easily out do this but for now lets say its 5k], thats 7.5k avg with beserk thats enough to easily 2 hit houses and 2 hit gobis with spear fury* ... 9 sp for more mastery is not something i find sensible i used beserk while at mdts doing the aura quest with ease staying at 2k hp using white pots ... yes white pots when i got hit that is which was rare due to 2hkoing them .... the need for beserk by far outways the need for 15% more mastery.

getting beserk earlier on allows for an easier transition from himes to getting 5% an hour at skellagons at 14x. also practice makes perfect and if your gonna learn how to use beserk at level 129 ... the exp lost will be about 1.4 more million exp lost per death ... as for the use of beserk at bosses like pap and painus it can be easily be used as 1 time per 1/1 attacks as a sort of ultimate finisher thingy magigee ... while they 1/1 use a mana pot and attack while the bishop is using gensis ... or if your soloing ... at pap ... as for painus while soloing just press mana when he 1/1s do 1 buster followed by a ginseng or your pot of choice whatever it maybe... I did this with level 2 beserk i dont see why you cant do it with other levels ... as you know by now pap and painus 1/1 quite often ...

I understand that your build could work but it could also backfire miserably causing the dk to quit by level 130 ... on your build a person must train at himes or get trained by a bishop friend at newts or skellagons till 130s .... this can be very dull and annoying at times... while going beserk first opens up a new door of choice that is soloing.... i have seen many dark knights soloing gobis in windia... they enjoy it as it is more exciting than holding buster/fury down while your priest mobs which is done by most dks starting in the late 80s which is fine when your getting 50-60% per hour without 2x ... but by the time your 120 youll be getting closer to 10% without 2x ... by 129 you'll be getting closer to 6-7 ... it will take about 106 hours of himing to get from 120-129 or 53 hours of 2x... most people will be bored to tears by then only to move on to gobis and get even less exp or skellagons and get around the same amount ... of course there will be deaths for the untrained beserk user ... and at 129 that 1.4 mill exp more per death than it is at 123.

yes your build could work... but for the avg dark knight it could be the most intensly boring 10 levels of their dk career.

[HiiEN]

I think either way you go the first 10-15 levels as a dark knight are the worst ever. You're pretty much still in dragon knight status (much like you're still a spearman at level 70) until you get all the necessary skills down. Things don't really take off until late 140's to the early 150's. Most dark knights end up quitting by around the mid 130's anyways, well at least the bandwagoners do lol.

[akerelsky]

I dont know what all these people said because I dont really have the time to read it and one of the first long posts made little sense to me, so sorry if this has been mentioned.

Personally... I am maxing rush before beholder hex. The rest of the guide seems fair enough, but Rush is much more useful then hex. Hex doesnt allow you to get aura heal and apple at the same time, which is useful at bosses. As you mentioned, you could leave it at 20, but Rush is way more useful while training than a 20 hex. Achilles after rush as well. So 16x should be rush maxing. Also stance should get to 30 before achilles is even touched... stance is vital at horntail and useful when training. Achilles: If you are zaking, keeping your hp around 8k on the right side of the body, then it 1/1's and leaves you with 1.2k hp, You cannot use a ginseng and still be in zerk. Without achilles however, with a 1/1 and a ginseng, im still in zerk =D. Therefore... Max beholder,stance,berserk,mw,aura, then rush, then achilles, then hex. This is my personal approach by experience, sorry if you disagree, and of course I am slightly hp washed.

[Wani]

personally going with 1 beholder followed by 20 beserk ... and i am unwashed with 12k hp at level 120 o.0. adding 3 levels worth of sp to get 300 more to your minimum damage when you can get level level 10 beserk by level 123 ... thats 3k or so threshhold*enough to take hits from gobis and skellaton fish* for an unwashed dk with a 1.5x the damage*at level 123 the damage per buster should be around 5k avg[this is what im doing now with buster at 120 ... so maybe a bit more by 123 ... but my 80 dex build and barely scrolled equips ... someone with good equips could easily out do this but for now lets say its 5k], thats 7.5k avg with beserk thats enough to easily 2 hit houses and 2 hit gobis with spear fury* ... 9 sp for more mastery is not something i find sensible i used beserk while at mdts doing the aura quest with ease staying at 2k hp using white pots ... yes white pots when i got hit that is which was rare due to 2hkoing them .... the need for beserk by far outways the need for 15% more mastery.

getting beserk earlier on allows for an easier transition from himes to getting 5% an hour at skellagons at 14x. also practice makes perfect and if your gonna learn how to use beserk at level 129 ... the exp lost will be about 1.4 more million exp lost per death ... as for the use of beserk at bosses like pap and painus it can be easily be used as 1 time per 1/1 attacks as a sort of ultimate finisher thingy magigee ... while they 1/1 use a mana pot and attack while the bishop is using gensis ... or if your soloing ... at pap ... as for painus while soloing just press mana when he 1/1s do 1 buster followed by a ginseng or your pot of choice whatever it maybe... I did this with level 2 beserk i dont see why you cant do it with other levels ... as you know by now pap and painus 1/1 quite often ...

I understand that your build could work but it could also backfire miserably causing the dk to quit by level 130 ... on your build a person must train at himes or get trained by a bishop friend at newts or skellagons till 130s .... this can be very dull and annoying at times... while going beserk first opens up a new door of choice that is soloing.... i have seen many dark knights soloing gobis in windia... they enjoy it as it is more exciting than holding buster/fury down while your priest mobs which is done by most dks starting in the late 80s which is fine when your getting 50-60% per hour without 2x ... but by the time your 120 youll be getting closer to 10% without 2x ... by 129 you'll be getting closer to 6-7 ... it will take about 106 hours of himing to get from 120-129 or 53 hours of 2x... most people will be bored to tears by then only to move on to gobis and get even less exp or skellagons and get around the same amount ... of course there will be deaths for the untrained beserk user ... and at 129 that 1.4 mill exp more per death than it is at 123.

yes your build could work... but for the avg dark knight it could be the most intensly boring 10 levels of their dk career.

I never really considered gobies, simply because I found them terrible exp since about L100, and by the time 4th job came out, I was 125, plus this guide was written before the HP threshold was increased. But I suppose that could work. Mind if I ask roughly what exp rate you get?


I dont know what all these people said because I dont really have the time to read it and one of the first long posts made little sense to me, so sorry if this has been mentioned.

Personally... I am maxing rush before beholder hex. The rest of the guide seems fair enough, but Rush is much more useful then hex. Hex doesnt allow you to get aura heal and apple at the same time, which is useful at bosses. As you mentioned, you could leave it at 20, but Rush is way more useful while training than a 20 hex. Achilles after rush as well. So 16x should be rush maxing. Also stance should get to 30 before achilles is even touched... stance is vital at horntail and useful when training. Achilles: If you are zaking, keeping your hp around 8k on the right side of the body, then it 1/1's and leaves you with 1.2k hp, You cannot use a ginseng and still be in zerk. Without achilles however, with a 1/1 and a ginseng, im still in zerk =D. Therefore... Max beholder,stance,berserk,mw,aura, then rush, then achilles, then hex. This is my personal approach by experience, sorry if you disagree, and of course I am slightly hp washed.

You're not the first person to suggest rush before hex, but I'd also heard more than L1 rush isn't that useful, and I haven't heard much more about why a higher level rush is useful. Is pushing monsters a bit further that handy, or does it have other uses I'm not aware of?

As for achilles, I think you're underestimating how useful it is. I've heard a lot of dark knights say it's very helpful for staying in berserk because the damage you take while training is a lot less.

btw, how HP washed is "slightly"?

[Xelstyle]

You're not the first person to suggest rush before hex, but I'd also heard more than L1 rush isn't that useful, and I haven't heard much more about why a higher level rush is useful. Is pushing monsters a bit further that handy, or does it have other uses I'm not aware of?

As for achilles, I think you're underestimating how useful it is. I've heard a lot of dark knights say it's very helpful for staying in berserk because the damage you take while training is a lot less.

btw, how HP washed is "slightly"?

I think that having a higher leveled Rush will be a lot better, but not entirely necessary.
If I had to choose between Hex or Rush after Achilles, I'd with with Hex.
Personally, I would max it.
If you're going to use an apple, then don't summon it; chances are, you won't be using an apple during bossing events because they are namely given to ranged characters.

Point is, Rush has been effective at lvl.1 ever since Leafre came out.
It's not like other skill such as Hex, Aura or Berserk, where it's useless at lower levels.

[MasPan]

even skelegons with PA isnt that bad, im getting close to 25k crushers with berserk30, and im not even that strong

Except for the berzerk 30 part - this is by far the most difficult skill for a DrK to get to level 30, so you can't truly base a guide on it. Additionally, most DrKs move to skeles when they can 2hko them for a reason - it gives them time to finish off the skele before it is able to completely retaliate, which is the exact opposite of how most PA DK/DrK fight (put monsters all in one place, kick ass). I really hope to see something suited to mob attackers in the near future, although if the exp/health ratio is any good it will simply be overcome by archmages/bishops anyway...

[rattown]

I never really considered gobies, simply because I found them terrible exp since about L100, and by the time 4th job came out, I was 125, plus this guide was written before the HP threshold was increased. But I suppose that could work. Mind if I ask roughly what exp rate you get?



You're not the first person to suggest rush before hex, but I'd also heard more than L1 rush isn't that useful, and I haven't heard much more about why a higher level rush is useful. Is pushing monsters a bit further that handy, or does it have other uses I'm not aware of?

As for achilles, I think you're underestimating how useful it is. I've heard a lot of dark knights say it's very helpful for staying in berserk because the damage you take while training is a lot less.

btw, how HP washed is "slightly"?

first 3 levels of 4th job ill be himeing since the exp still isnt so bad 10-15% an hour is still decent ... 10 hours per level isnt that bad for me. by then my beserk will be level 10 so ill let you know o.0... itll probably take me a few weeks since i only play 1-2 hours a day ... but meh .. :P
as for when it was written and when it was posted ... that not my fault you posted it this week so it shoulda been upto date with all the new changes having their affect on it like hexes increased casting rate etc etc o.0

[solid_ice8]

lol
i know about berserk being increased

hex was increased too?

and btw MasPan, monster magnet was upgraded
it's able to pull about 6 monsters now

[HiiEN]

They did something to Hex? Well anyways, I still think Himes are good until 140 or until you can 2hko skeles/newties. Nobody will take you if you do any less. I would much rather have Achilles maxed before Rush maxed, and Rush maxed before Hex maxed. I prefer the healing over the buffs so I summon the beholder either ways, therefore I can't afford to pump Hex; I'd rather divert those points elsewhere.

[rattown]

hex's casting rate was fixed so that it buffs more frequently so the probablity of you missing one of the buffs is slim to none. as for stance 20 .... i think its more expensive than beserk 30 in windia ... correct me if im wrong because ive been in fm several times looking for stance 20 book with no luck. that means that beserk 30 would be more easily achieved than stance 20.

Im not sure how other worlds are doing with ht... but the more groups hting the lower the price of the book will be. while stance is still needed by all 4th job wariors and is excruciatingly difficult to get off pap ... ive been on about 200 paps since 4th job came out and ive seen most pap skill books drop including brandish 30 2 times. not sure if its insanely rare or what but ive yet to see stance 20.

[HiiEN]

Just because it might drop less frequently doesn't mean it would be worth more. Stance 20 isn't worth 200+mil last time I checked. The highest I've seen Stance 20's book go for is around 50mil, while I bought mine for about 30mil. The demand for Berserk 30 is higher for Drks than Stance 20 is, it's just that you see the same book in the shop because it's harder to afford. You don't see as many Stance 20 books in the free market because once one enters the market it's purchased right away because it's cheaper than a Berserk 30 book. Also the pass rate of Stance 20 is higher than Berserk 30, so most people get a pass in one try.

[Wani]

first 3 levels of 4th job ill be himeing since the exp still isnt so bad 10-15% an hour is still decent ... 10 hours per level isnt that bad for me. by then my beserk will be level 10 so ill let you know o.0... itll probably take me a few weeks since i only play 1-2 hours a day ... but meh .. :P
as for when it was written and when it was posted ... that not my fault you posted it this week so it shoulda been upto date with all the new changes having their affect on it like hexes increased casting rate etc etc o.0

I posted this as a copy and paste from sleepywood, where I wrote it a month or two back. :P Which is why it's not up to date. When I have a little more time, I might go through it again and update it.

[Xelstyle]

Just because it might drop less frequently doesn't mean it would be worth more. Stance 20 isn't worth 200+mil last time I checked. The highest I've seen Stance 20's book go for is around 50mil, while I bought mine for about 30mil. The demand for Berserk 30 is higher for Drks than Stance 20 is, it's just that you see the same book in the shop because it's harder to afford. You don't see as many Stance 20 books in the free market because once one enters the market it's purchased right away because it's cheaper than a Berserk 30 book. Also the pass rate of Stance 20 is higher than Berserk 30, so most people get a pass in one try.

Mmm...lucky.
Stance 20 is about 75 mil in Khaini. =/

Anyways, if this was Stance 30, and the drop rates between 20 and 30 were switched, it'd a be a different story.
However, you need Stance 20 which is a lot harder to get, in order to max your skill.

Berserk, you can easily get up to 20 with no problem.

[Fat]

Except for the berzerk 30 part - this is by far the most difficult skill for a DrK to get to level 30, so you can't truly base a guide on it. Additionally, most DrKs move to skeles when they can 2hko them for a reason - it gives them time to finish off the skele before it is able to completely retaliate, which is the exact opposite of how most PA DK/DrK fight (put monsters all in one place, kick ass). I really hope to see something suited to mob attackers in the near future, although if the exp/health ratio is any good it will simply be overcome by archmages/bishops anyway...

that was a typo, i have berserk20.

[HiiEN]

Well anyone can get Berserk 20, it's worthless now. I was talking about Berserk 30, and I wasn't talking about Stance 30, that's pretty worthless too. Stance 20 and Berserk 30 are expensive, but the reason Stance 20 is harder to find in the market is because ALL warriors need it and its probably bought out the moment its released into the market. Berserk 30 you might tend to see more because only a third of the warriors need it and it's more expensive.

[Xelstyle]

Well anyone can get Berserk 20, it's worthless now. I was talking about Berserk 30, and I wasn't talking about Stance 30, that's pretty worthless too. Stance 20 and Berserk 30 are expensive, but the reason Stance 20 is harder to find in the market is because ALL warriors need it and its probably bought out the moment its released into the market. Berserk 30 you might tend to see more because only a third of the warriors need it and it's more expensive.

Couple that with Pap's low drop rate and you've got yourself a crazy expensive item.
Also, I wouldn't necessarily say a third of the warriors because Heros and DrKs take more of the warrior population than Pallys, but I get what you mean.

[Fat]

Well anyone can get Berserk 20, it's worthless now. I was talking about Berserk 30, and I wasn't talking about Stance 30, that's pretty worthless too. Stance 20 and Berserk 30 are expensive, but the reason Stance 20 is harder to find in the market is because ALL warriors need it and its probably bought out the moment its released into the market. Berserk 30 you might tend to see more because only a third of the warriors need it and it's more expensive.

HT skills arent sold in broa yet, and i hardly doubt they are sold in any other server, since so many people still need them before they go on sale, and btw, killing a horntail is harder than killing a papulatus.

[Xelstyle]

HT skills arent sold in broa yet, and i hardly doubt they are sold in any other server, since so many people still need them before they go on sale, and btw, killing a horntail is harder than killing a papulatus.

I'm pretty sure I saw a couple Gen30, Bliz30, Berserk30 and other skills at the FM. Still pretty expensive..
Most of the better runs hover above the hour mark and most of the time, the permanent runners already have all the necessary skills.

Killing HT might be harder than Pap, but it yields greater drops.

[Secks]

Thanks for the guide man! :f2:

[HiiEN]

HT skills arent sold in broa yet, and i hardly doubt they are sold in any other server, since so many people still need them before they go on sale, and btw, killing a horntail is harder than killing a papulatus.
Wait I don't understand what you're saying; are you saying that servers don't sell skills as often?

Also, HT might yield a greater drop rate but that doesn't mean everyone can kill it. Yes Papulatus has a shitty drop rate however due to just location of the drop you don't see Stance 20 going for 200mil while Berserk 30 going for 50mil. Ultimately it comes down to whether or not you can afford it in time, or earn it yourself. However most Drks can't earn it due to the fact of being unable to join a group that can kill it, since to my knowledge only a handful of groups per server can kill it, and most have the Drks they need unless a new group forms. Therefore if you don't have as much money it's just as hard, if not harder to obtain a Berserk 30 compared to a Stance 20. At least with Stance 20 you have a chance to earn it earlier if you're not funded by the time you reach a level that you can Horntail at, assuming you get into a group which will let you earn it. Of course, if you have money, then things can change around and you'd probably have Berserk 30 first since although it is worth more you tend to see those in the market.

For those who tl;dr, having money = Berserk 30 early and not having money = Stance 20 over time until you might be able to earn Berserk 30.

[Fat]

i was saying that nobody's selling berserk 30, since its a HT drop.

[HiiEN]

i was saying that nobody's selling berserk 30, since its a HT drop.
I think it depends on the server, because at least in Windia, there's always at least one being sold 24/7 in the free market.

[ThisIsSal]

right, none being sold in mardia yet. They -are- selling Gen30 however.

[Fat]

ok so for broa its: stance 20~35m
berserk30~200m

[Wani]

I think berserk 30 on Scania is something like 600mil, Stance 20 is like 100mil+, last I heard. x_x

[Xelstyle]

I have a question.
Why do you say that you should put Berserk only at level 5 when you don't have a Mastery Book?
By my calculations, if a level 127 DK were to have Berserk 10, that'd be roughly 31xx HP.
That'd seem a lot better than having only 25xx HP at the same level plus some stance.

[Wani]

Hmm... that's more one of those things that I originally had because berserk L10 was simply not usable for an unwashed DK before they fixed berserk. But basically I said that so you have enough points in berserk to be able to use a berserk 20 book.

[Xelstyle]

Hmm... that's more one of those things that I originally had because berserk L10 was simply not usable for an unwashed DK before they fixed berserk. But basically I said that so you have enough points in berserk to be able to use a berserk 20 book.

Oh, I thought so.
Thanks.