Pierce Testing

[Truemark]

I'm still trying to break the 250k barrier (I need to find a demon elixir), but I did get an interesting SS of pierce hitting the damage cap on the first monster. Looks like 99,999 is the max for the first (unless I was absolutely lucky in hitting exactly 99,999).

http://www.impulsetfc.com/images/misc/ms/pierce/PierceDamageCap.jpg

[Kevvl]

If 99,999k is max for the first, you should be unable to hit 250k damage on the last hit.

[Truemark]

What should be the max then? Since the 99,999 damage cap seems to be only on the first monster, why would that control the damage on the other 5?

[psychopat]

The current theory is that the damage cap applies on all of them, except the multiplicative effect breaks that 99999 cap.

I won't pretend to know the real number for certain, but I think that it's a 1.2 multiplier for each additional monster that pierce hits. You wind up with a max of:

99999 * 1.2 = 119998 for the second monster
99999 * 1.2 * 1.2 = 143998 for the third monster
99999 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.2 = 172798 for the fourth
99999 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.2 = 207357 for the fifth
99999 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.2 = 248829 for the last

Meaning that if it is a 1.2 multiplier, 250k is impossible although you can get close to it.
Come to think of it, if this is correct, it would also be impossible to do 248828 damage because a 99998 pre-multiplication gives 248827 :cool:

What would be cool to have clarified is how the 199999 damage cap on snipe affected this for the KMS players. Was the cap raised for every skill or just snipe? Are they now able to go up to 497661 damage on the last monster with pierce?

[Technolink]

99999 * 1.2 = 119998 for the second monster
99999 * 1.2 * 1.2 = 143998 for the third monster
99999 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.2 = 172798 for the fourth
99999 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.2 = 207357 for the fifth
99999 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.2 = 248829 for the last

Yep, that's the current theory, and it should be correct.

The idea stems from IA missing on wdef up'd bonefish.

Pretty much, the reason why pierce can break the cap is because the monster multiplier is applied after min/max correction, as is the IA multiplier.

So in the bonefish example:
Two bonefish have wdef up, the first takes 1 damage, the second takes 1*.9 which results in a miss.

In Pierce, the base damage could only be 99,999 max, then the 1.2^9monster-1) multiplier is tacked on.

Its pretty much confirmed by you not being able to break 249k *looks at your title*

[Russt]

You need to get yourself a SS of hitting exactly 248,829 though. Make yourself a legend.

This kind of testing is actually very good confirmation of what the multiplier actually is. We know that:
99999 * x * x * x * x * x > 246411
x^5 > 2.464
x > 1.1976

So it's very likely to be 1.2.

[Chameleonic]

MM get nerfed again.

We can potentially do more damage on the first hit but Nexon shafts us again...great.

[KaidaTan]

MM get nerfed again.

We can potentially do more damage on the first hit but Nexon shafts us again...great.

Tell that to Paladins. They've been able to hit over 100k pretty much since 4th job came out. And that's their main form of attack. Not only that, but they actually hit 99999 far more often than a Marksman. Marksmen don't have it the worst and are going to be improved, so chill out.

Why is there a damage cap anyway? What's the point?

[Russt]

Why is there a damage cap anyway? What's the point?
Hackers at bosses, presumably.

Just like the anti-bot mechanism that doesn't prevent any actual botters.

[Chameleonic]

Marksmen don't have it the worst and are going to be improved, so chill out.

I wish I had your confidence. Where did you get the idea that we will be improved?

I dont count the Snipe increase from 99k to 199k(you 1hko everything as it is), Snipe is negligible in day to day training and there is no change in the horribly long cooldowns for early levels.

[Technolink]

It does make a huge difference at bossing though, and remember, that 199k is for all skills including strafe and pierce.

[IsaacGS]

Are you guys forgetting the damage cap got increased to (at least) 250k in KMS? Eventually that will arrive here.

[Technolink]

Are you guys forgetting the damage cap got increased to (at least) 250k in KMS? Eventually that will arrive here.

We're just hoping on any increase now, the 200k would be fine, but 250k? That's just be kick ass for bossing. MMs may have all the power of BMs at bosses then.

Of course, as said, an increased cap doesn't help much with training and snipe, only with the other attacks.

[Chameleonic]

Are you guys forgetting the damage cap got increased to (at least) 250k in KMS? Eventually that will arrive here.

I saw a SS of Snipe doing 199k, havent heard them increasing it to 250k+, when did they do that...and does it apply to other classes like Paladins and Shadowers?

[Russt]

I saw a SS of Snipe doing 199k, havent heard them increasing it to 250k+, when did they do that...and does it apply to other classes like Paladins and Shadowers?
If it does, they need it just as much.

[IsaacGS]

I saw a SS of Snipe doing 199k, havent heard them increasing it to 250k+, when did they do that...and does it apply to other classes like Paladins and Shadowers?
It was a universal increase. Everyone can hit over 100k now.

[Takebacker]

It was a universal increase. Everyone can hit over 100k now.

Is panic worth using with brandish with it?

[Truemark]

You guys are so smark :f2:

Thanks to Doomas for supplying the elixir...

http://www.impulsetfc.com/images/misc/ms/pierce/dr170wDemonElixir.jpg


http://www.impulsetfc.com/images/misc/ms/pierce/248829_1.jpg


http://www.impulsetfc.com/images/misc/ms/pierce/248829_2.jpg

[Takebacker]

Epic win. Now change the thing under your name to say "Pierce: 248829." :D

[Harrisonized]

Gratz on hitting the highest damage possible in the game. O.o
Now you need (ok, not really need, but want) a screenshot of you hitting 99,999 the first monster and 248829 the last in the same picture. xD

I have a question though...
Technically, if you hit 90975 the first hit, you should be getting 226374 the last hit. SE +40% would let you hit 316924, so why would your screenshot show otherwise? :f6:

This leads me to think that Nexon made the cap exactly 248829. That or you actually hit 99,999 on the server but it didn't show that in your client.

[Russt]

Okay, so in light of the new max, we have x > 1.1999995.

It's 1.2 :f3:

[KaidaTan]

Wow, seriously, good job nailing the multiplier so well. I didn't think we'd ever find it because it would be something arbitrary or just hard to figure out. But dang, that's just sick. And GJ Jon on the crazy damage. I guess you don't have to worry about DCing, eh?

[Truemark]

At least not til the bump up the damage cap to 200k and we realize that 250k is the new d/c limit.

And don't forget to send your thanks along to Doomas for supplying the elixir :)

[Russt]

Gratz on hitting the highest damage possible in the game. O.o
Now you need (ok, not really need, but want) a screenshot of you hitting 99,999 the first monster and 248829 the last in the same picture. xD

I have a question though...
Technically, if you hit 90975 the first hit, you should be getting 226374 the last hit. SE +40% would let you hit 316924, so why would your screenshot show otherwise? :f6:

This leads me to think that Nexon made the cap exactly 248829. That or you actually hit 99,999 on the server but it didn't show that in your client.
It doesn't take the first damage number and multiply it over and over again. It rolls a new number from your damage range each time. But it's capped at 99999 before Pierce modifier kicks in, so the cap becomes 248829 regardless of what the first hit actually is.

[Truemark]

99999 * 1.2 = 119998 for the second monster
99999 * 1.2 * 1.2 = 143998 for the third monster
99999 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.2 = 172798 for the fourth
99999 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.2 = 207357 for the fifth
99999 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.2 = 248829 for the last


I just realized. Using these numbers, it seems hit #2, #5 and #6 are all max in the second screenshot.

http://www.impulsetfc.com/images/misc/ms/pierce/248829_1.jpg

[psychopat]

I guess that pretty much confirms that it's a 1.2 multiplier :f2:
That also means that it is currently impossible to DC yourself by doing too much damage for marksmen. I wonder if CBs can still blow up too much money and DC :-P

[Chameleonic]

But it's capped at 99999 before Pierce modifier kicks in, so the cap becomes 248829 regardless of what the first hit actually is.

Quick, everyone send a ticket to Nexon complaining that our damage is still nerfed! :wink:

Seriously, that is a bit of a downer, we still cant reach our potential...

[Harrisonized]

Seriously, that is a bit of a downer, we still cant reach our potential...
Seriously, you don't need to. Be happy with the damage that no other class can do. (And I heard that uncharged pierce does more damage over time, same with assassinate, so this wouldn't be practical bossing either.) Also, I've seen several other ss of Trumark testing Pierce, without a Naricain, he was unable to hit the damage cap. So, you shouldn't be hitting it during normal training sessions or boss kills anyways. :f6:

[Technolink]

The question now is can we use this as proof that Pierce bypasses wdef?

We don't know how wdef is applied, before or after 1/99999 correction, or even before/after the pierce multiplier.

If wdef is applied after the correction the max would habe been 99881.5*1.2^5 = 248537

So now, either pierce bypasses wdef, OR wdef is applied BEFORE the correction (ie the damage would have been 108,598, then minus wdef to 108480, THEN capped to 99,999)

Good job Trumark and Doomas, also nice one on the multiplier Sap. We should really confirm the .9 for IA as well.

[Beaner]

i almost cried when i saw this. awesome jon gratz on winning maple <3.

wish i been there to do it too.

[Aids]

I'm just wondering....did you still d/c after taking those pics of 248,829 or does it just not allow you to hit 250k and you stay logged on?

[Chameleonic]

What would Truemark's damage actually be if the artificial damage cap of 99,999 was removed from the first monster?

[KaidaTan]

What would Truemark's damage actually be if the artificial damage cap of 99,999 was removed from the first monster?

Pierce does 1090% damage with crit right?
10959*10.9*1.2*1.2*1.2*1.2*1.2 = 297237.537792 max damage on a 0 defense monster.

[Russt]

With a Naricain.

Other than this there's no real practical purpose of using Pierce with a Naricain.

[Stereo]

The question now is can we use this as proof that Pierce bypasses wdef?

We don't know how wdef is applied, before or after 1/99999 correction, or even before/after the pierce multiplier.

If wdef is applied after the correction the max would habe been 99881.5*1.2^5 = 248537

WDef reduces 10959 to 10810 (on a Dark Rash), the max is still 99999 on the first hit with that range. Order applied is base->buffs->wdef->skill->damage cap->per monster bonus.

[Technolink]

But the question here is does Pierce ignore wdef? Its a rumor that I haven't heard confirmed yet. I imagine it does... but who knows (I know someone does =P)

EDIT @ Below: my bad, misread it

[Stereo]

Slashblast FA, Iron Arrow, Arrow Bomb, Pierce, use per-monster damage adjustments after the damage has been calculated.


Monster element is added with buffs afaik. And Wdef invincible is at the damage cap.