England riots

[Lozmaster]

So long story short, England is suddenly going to pomegranate, the last 2 nights, and judging by the way tonight has started, there have been moderatly violent riots and lots and lots of looting in a number of places in London (Englands capital), and just starting rumours of it popping up in other cities in the country. Rioters have already hurt a significant number of police officers (over 26 last I heard), and it all started over some person who supposedly threatened a unarmed policeofficer (normally officers in england are unarmed), and was then taken out by an armed escort who was following the person because he was already suspected of violent crimes.

And they're attacking fire engines and ambulances that are trying to help improve the situtation too.

Long story long :

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pixies/2011/8/7/1312745523366/Shooting-in-Tottenham-Hal-007.jpgFire rages through a building in Tottenham, north London, on Saturday night during the worst riots since Brixton. Photograph: Lewis Whyld/PA

Asked if the Metropolitan police were slow to respond to the Tottenham riots, commander Adrian Hanstock replied: "No, not at all." That account, given outside Scotland Yard on Sunday morning, did not correlate with events that had unfolded several miles away in north London hours earlier.

What began as a gathering of around 200 protesters demanding answers over the death of Mark Duggan, who was shot dead by police on Thursday, culminated 12 hours later in a full-scale riot that saw brazen looting spread across north-London suburbs.

By 5.00am, at Tottenham Hale retail park, teenagers were still emerging from shops into the dawn sunshine, stuffing bags and trolleys with stolen goods and running into back streets.

Some officers had apprehended a handful of looters; others had their phones out and were taking pictures of a burnt-out car.

At exactly the same time, looting was taking place nearly two miles away, on Wood Green high street, where approximately 100 people had spent hours burning cars and breaking into high-street shops. Some were even filling suitcases.

As for police – who had claimed to have "contained" disturbances six hours earlier – there was none in sight.

By Sunday night police said there had been 55 arrests, and 26 police officers injured. Yet what marked the weekend's disturbances were not the number of people hurt but the scale of property destruction.

Throughout the borough, shops, pubs, banks and even residential properties had been ransacked and torched.

Firefighters struggled to contain a blaze at an Aldi supermarket and another fire in a building just a few hundred yards away, housing a carpet store. Both were huge fires that – apart from the rioting – would have made significant news events in themselves.

These were by all accounts the worst disturbances of their kind since the 1995 Brixton riots. Shocked residents emerging this morning to see the scorched, debris-strewn streets asked two questions. Why had the riot started? And how did it spread?

The crowd that gathered outside Tottenham police station at 5.30pm were by all accounts peaceful. The protesters consisted of local residents, community leaders, and some of Duggan's relatives, including his fiancee, Semone Wilson.

Protesters complained that police and the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC), which is investigating Duggan's death, were not communicating with them.

Wilson, they said, had been forced to call the IPCC to identify the body; other relatives first discovered Duggan had been killed when they saw his photograph on the news.

With apparently limited communication, the vacuum filled with rumour.

There were stories of Duggan having been shot after being handcuffed; others said he had sent a message to friends 15 minutes before he was killed, saying he had been cornered but was safe.

There were chants of "we want answers" but those present said the protest was good-natured. The demonstration, which organisers expected to last no more than an hour, was initially fronted by women, who surrounded Wilson, who had three children with 29-year-old Duggan.

What happened over the next four hours is subject to debate, but what is clear is that tensions gradually escalated, as police made only limited attempts to talk to the demonstrators.

Some who were present described seeing a younger, more aggressive crowd arrive around dusk, some carrying weapons. "These people were prepared," said Bill Dow, a bystander. "They had fireworks and petrol cans."

Protest organisers denied this, and said police failed to engage with them. Eventually a chief inspector came out and spoke to Duggan's relatives but, organisers said, he conceded a higher-ranking officer should talk to them.

Stafford Scott, a community organiser, said police were "absolutely" culpable for not responding to their requests for dialogue.

"I told the chief inspector personally that we wanted to leave before nightfall," Scott said. "If he kept us hanging around after nightfall, it was going to be on his head. We couldn't guarantee it wouldn't get out of control."

Scott said the chief inspector promised a higher ranking official would speak to the crowd.

When no one came, organisers said some younger men turned their anger to two police cars, which were set on fire.

Duggan's relatives are said to have left the area when the rioting began. His brother, Shaun Hall, distanced the family from the Saturday night disturbances.

He said there may have been a "domino effect" from the unanswered questions surrounding his brother's death, but said the family "don't condone at all" violence perpetrated in his name.

Others present said the spark for the rioting was a specific incident involving a 16-year-old woman, who stepped forward to confront police around 8.30pm, demanding answers, but was attacked with shields and batons.

"They beat her with a baton, and then the crowd started shouting 'run, run', and there was a hail of missiles," said Anthony Johnson, 39. "She had been saying: 'We want answers, come and speak to us.'"

Laurence Bailey, who was in a nearby church, described seeing the girl throw a leaflet and what may have been a stone at police.

Bailey said the girl was then "pounded by 15 riot shields". "She went down on the floor but once she managed to get up she was hit again before being half-dragged away by her friend," he said.

In some ways, the truth about the alleged incident involving the 16-year-old did not matter; the rumour that police had attacked a girl was incendiary enough.

In a YouTube clip showing burning police cars and violent pitched battles more than an hour later, a rioter can be heard goading others: "Didn't you see the girl getting roughed by the Feds, man? Come on."

By 11pm, a double-decker bus had been set alight, and shops – mostly local businesses – along the high road broken into. Throughout the nearby estates and terraced streets, teenagers walked brazenly with stolen TVs, stereos, mobile phones and food.

The make-up of the rioters was racially mixed. Most were men or boys, some apparently as young as 10.

But families and other local residents, including some from Tottenham's Hasidic Jewish community, also gathered to watch and jeer at police.

Some took defensive action; the owners of a Turkish supermarket stacked crates of bottled water in front of his store to prevent break-ins. A building containing a florist was set on fire, as was the Prince of Wales pub.

Police, some on horseback, began to gain control of a 200-metre stretch of the high road by around midnight, allowing fire-engines to tackle the raging fires.

The rioters, however, simply dispersed into back streets or moved further north, where they pillaged an Aldi supermarket before setting it on fire. The blaze, along with a fire that engulfed a branch of Carpetright, lit up the sky.

"Shall I be honest? pineapple the police," said Reeko Young, 24, who had gathered with friends on a nearby side street to share images of the riots on mobile phones.

Young said he was not taking part in the violence, but like many had been enraged by the rumours circulating about Duggan's death.

He showed one of several BlackBerry "BB" messages being disseminated, suggesting Duggan had been shot in the face at point-blank range.

His friend Jermaine Smith, 24, had a different message, purporting to have been leaked from a Tottenham police officer who revealed – implausibly – that the police weapon used to kill Duggan had still not been recovered.

Everyone seemed to agree that the weapon Duggan had been carrying, and allegedly used to shoot police, had actually been found wrapped in a sock.

"People feel the murder of Mark was very unjust," he said. "We all know police and the lengths they are willing to go to. We don't believe their stories about how he died, and I don't believe the community believe it either."

Young and Smith were among dozens of young men and women who preferred to take shelter in side streets, watching the blazes on the high road.

But in the early hours the disturbances escalated, with looting fanning out in all directions.

Around 1.30am, BBC and Sky News crews were attacked south of the high road. Both news organisations pulled all their staff out of the area for their own safety.

Some of the most shocking scenes occurred once the television cameras had departed. South-east of the high road, groups stormed Tottenham Hale retail park.

In quick succession they smashed their way into outlets belonging to Boots, JD Sports, O2, Currys, Argos, Orange, PC World and Comet. Most headed straight for the shelves, although others pulled out cash registers or searched storage rooms.

North-west of the high road, youths in military-style balaclavas and wielding sticks made burning barricades, attacking motorists who approached shops being looted.

But it was the contagion to nearby Wood Green that proved most surreal.

From around 2.30am, young people began breaking into high-street stores. With no intervention from police at all, and looters in control of the area for around three hours, it was left to residents to intervene.

One man, who was held back by his girlfriend, remonstrated with a group breaking into a Lidl supermarket after discovering his car had been reduced to a burnt-out shell.

"Don't fight, there's too many of them," his girlfriend shouted as four teenagers ran past boasting about their stolen G-Star jeans.

On the adjacent street, a young man who looked about 14 drove erratically around a back street in an apparently stolen Audi.

Most of the activity, however, was taking pace on the high street. Gaming shops and mobile phone outlets were targeted, as well as clothing stores.

Large HMV and H&M outlets were also broken into. Most looters attempted to conceal their faces with scarves, but the theft was casual, with people taking their time to pick through items and – in one front garden – swapping stolen goods.

It is perhaps unsurprising that rioting in Tottenham – one of the most economically deprived areas in the country – should have involved mass opportunistic theft. But even in the early hours the rioting was not without some social symbolism. "Murderers," shouted one man clutching a stereo as a police van drove past on Lordship Lane at around 3.45am.

Nearby a group of young men emerged from Haringey and Enfield magistrates court wielding hammers.

They had shunned the temptation of the looted stores to break seven windows in the courthouse. It is a place some rioters presumably visited in the past; others are likely to be summoned in the near future.

On Sunday at 4pm, almost 24 hours after protesters first gathered at Tottenham police station, a solitary alarm was still ringing at the courthouse.

Police and fire engines had not yet attended the magistrates court – or the adjacent probation service office, which had been torched. It was left smouldering in the rain.




http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/07/tottenham-riots-peaceful-protest


Also a short Video clip from a reporter at one of the riot scenes.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2011/aug/08/london-riots-shop-looting-enfield?CMP=twt_gu

And live updates on the current situation
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2011/aug/08/london-riots-third-night-live?intcmp=239

Yep, glad I'm not in London right now:f7:

Normally I'm against armed violence against anyone.... but they've been doing this for 3 nights now, I'm leaning heavily towards send the armies out and send them a message that these morons destroying public property, looting stores and destroying them and innocent peoples houses, as well as attacking Police officers, journalists, Hospital workers and everyone else that has nothing to do with their rampage that it will not be stood for.

[Nikkey]

I've seen it, and it's kind of crazy. It's good that people respond to violence performed by the police, but dang man, you don't really have to go all French, do you?

[Lozmaster]

I've seen it, and it's kind of crazy. It's good that people respond to violence performed by the police, but dang man, you don't really have to go all French, do you?

They really aren't responding to police violence anymore, it's all degraded into a reason for looting. Plus, the intial reports from most news outlets said the officer that talked to Mark Duggan in the first place was reportedly shot at by Duggan, and only survived because the bullet logged into his police radio, at which point the armed police force following intervened.

Of course, the official police report isn't out on the subject yet, and as such its neither been confirmed or denied by the police yet, and some of the media outlets are trying to backpedal on that first story, so it's hard to say what is true and what isn't.

Edit: And now confirmed riots in the city of birmingham, which is quite far from london. Brilliant.

[Takebacker]

Good thing USAmericans* are too lazy to riot like this.

[dontlisten]

There is nothing more offensive to me than "USAmericans". Just call us estadounidenses.

I think that this is an over-reaction to someone shooting at police and then getting shot. Good game, guys. If you're going to protest something, do it in an organized non-violent manner and please... choose a better cause.

[Kalovale]

This is why the world needs Bin Laden. When we have nothing to do, we turn to fight amongst ourselves for lulz.

[Nikkey]

They really aren't responding to police violence anymore, it's all degraded into a reason for looting. Plus, the intial reports from most news outlets said the officer that talked to Mark Duggan in the first place was reportedly shot at by Duggan, and only survived because the bullet logged into his police radio, at which point the armed police force following intervened.

Yeah, true enough. I haven't really heard the case about Mark Duggan, so I cannot really say what happened there.

It's stupid if they're protesting against a fair treatment of the police, but so again is the rioting happening now.

[maplefreak26]

This is about x5 worse than the Oakland riot here couple years ago.

[Worthyness]

This is about x5 worse than the Oakland riot here couple years ago.

LOL i remember that. i was like "oh snap some dude got capped by the police. they finna riot like there ain't no tomorrow"

But seriously, this IS NOT a protest. This is blatant DESTRUCTION and ANARCHY. now if they peacefully just held signs and yelled at the police, then it would have been fine. But to openly loot stores, destroy storefronts, and destroy police and fire department vehicles, that isn't protesting anything. It's exactly what people did in oakland. It was "peaceful" until some idiots decided to drop in and destroy stuff, which leads to more things being out of control and chaos. They seriously need to just bring in armed guards with a couple of smoke bombs and a few bean bag shot guns and just roll everyone. The more they let this get out of control, the more damage they'll eventually have to pay for. But i guess it's a matter of "If we shoot bean bags and hit somebody and they sue us, will that cost us more than letting everything get destroyed?"


TL;DR- Riot was ok until idiots decided the best way to get "revenge and justice" for the dead guy was to destroy anything and everything in the path that looked like it stood for the institution (and maybe get a few thousand dollars in clothes, shoes, jewelry, and maybe those new jeans that came out yesterday and that new video game system). Logic is lost on these people.

[MrHoodBlade]

I think this whole incident is just a spark that's riled up a lot of other problems there. I feel like for the past few months, mainly just the summer actually, i've read a number of articles about unrest in England. From phone-hacking stuff to the protests against dramatically increasing tuition, to one of the biggest labor unions threatening to strike with some ridiculous percentage of the country's workers. Basically, things have been pretty shaky for a minute, and if anything, this just gave people an opportunity to blow off steam. But did you guys notice where it said in the article that a bunch of young men showed up towards the latter portion of the protest with firecrackers and stuff? That suggests to me that they've been waiting for an opportunity to go crazy.

[Takebacker]

There is nothing more offensive to me than "USAmericans". Just call us estadounidenses.

That's silly. I made it up on the spot. Literally all i did was add an 'ns' at the end of 'United States of America'.

[Rick]

The people lighting fires should be shoot on sight. The world is better without them.

[Eolias]

My highstreet was just completely looted, buildings are destroyed. Sad thing is that the economy is going to take a large hit from this, making the economic situation even worse. And this :

ITV Reporter: Is rioting the correct way to express your discontent?
Young Londoner: You wouldn't be talking to me now if we didn't riot, would you?
ITV Reporter: ...
Young Londoner: Two months ago we marched to Scotland Yard, more than 2,000 of us, all blacks, and it was peaceful and calm and you know what? Not a word in the press. Last night a bit of rioting and looting and look around you.

[street]

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?msid=207192798388318292131.0004aa01af6748773e8f 7&msa=0&ie=UTF8&ll=51.536086%2C-0.056305&spn=0.39294%2C0.630341&z=10&source=embed

This is crazy

[Rick]

I've been watching this on the news. It's absolutely insane.

[Born2BeMild]

At first, I liked how they started. Now I am dissapointed.

[Ninjaman43]

This is why the world needs Bin Laden. When we have nothing to do, we turn to fight amongst ourselves for lulz.

Isn't Bin Laden the one that started the 9/11 attack?

[Sarah]

Goes without saying that this would happen


What has spurned hundreds to take to the streets of London to riot, burn and loot? According to the London Evening Standard newspaper, the city's continuing—and spreading—riots have their roots in Rockstar Games' Grand Theft Auto.

That tenuous connection between a violent sandbox crime spree of a video game and the very real violence happening throughout the city seems to have been derived from an unnamed London constable offering his opinion on the brouhaha, as quoted above. It was a connection juicy enough to make the London Evening Standard front page—at least for one printing—according to MCV.

The other culprit in the still-smoldering riots, which ignited in Tottenham, London: the Blackberry. Obviously, at least one of these technological wonders should be banned outright to quell this uprising, right?

http://kotaku.com/5828924/london-riots-inspire-fresh-grand-theft-auto-finger-pointing

[Born2BeMild]

old media blaming the new media as always.

[Link]

Really? This much rioting because of a video game? Lmfao!

Unless someone has developed brainwashing technology and is testing it on London with "Grand Theft Auto" as the test product, they're far out of the ballpark.

[Raul]

Really? This much rioting because of a video game? Lmfao!

Unless someone has developed brainwashing technology and is testing it on London with "Grand Theft Auto" as the test product, they're far out of the ballpark.

this is akin to blaming the shootings in Sweden a month or so ago on MW2.

[Kurtle]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAtJ_30xz_w

Video showing the aggresiveness of the riots. Absolutely terrifying.

[Sarah]

this is akin to blaming the shootings in Sweden a month or so ago on MW2.

Not even close. At least that guy specifically commented on using MW2 as a means of training. They just pulled this out of no where.


Note: I'm not suggesting that either is right but you're wrong in saying that.

[AzureKite]

That video just reminded me of how like zombies come out of nowhere and swarm you in some games. Quite sad though that those people actually got so violent.

[Mazz]

they're about an hour from where i live now, setting fires in places where i have friends that live (or lived, presumably, houses and buildings being torched). this is awful.

[MrHoodBlade]

the sad thing is, if the police start retaliating, people will become even more outraged.

weird though, we had small riots after the Steelers won the super bowl here in Pittsburgh and there were mounted police, and even smoke canisters everywhere, but you dont seem to see that here...

[Rick]

People who get that violent should be subdued. They're a danger to everything.

[Mibs]

"Armed escort" is delightfully vague.

[Lozmaster]

the sad thing is, if the police start retaliating, people will become even more outraged.


I don't know, theres a point where it becomes ok to retaliate with force, and I think this is way past that point. When they can do this
http://l.yimg.com/i/i/uk/metro/riots12.jpg to our police officers who don't seem to have any proper weapons to defend themselves with when they selflessly go out to try and protect innocents and their property from these thugs, I stop caring about them and just want them dealt with. If they called in the army to deal with them, I'd probably support the move.



weird though, we had small riots after the Steelers won the super bowl here in Pittsburgh and there were mounted police, and even smoke canisters everywhere, but you dont seem to see that here...
There have been mounted police, though theres no signs of water cannons, tear gas, or anything other than batons.

[Duelman]

Where the hell are the sandbag guns at? Good god these rioters would think twice after they see some people get popped with those.

edit: Like this shit lol.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqOEyjfBzIQ&feature=related

[Index]

'Protesters' my ass. These people are thieves looking to make a quick buck while the police are preoccupied.

[MrHoodBlade]

I don't know, theres a point where it becomes ok to retaliate with force, and I think this is way past that point. When they can do this
http://l.yimg.com/i/i/uk/metro/riots12.jpg to our police officers who don't seem to have any proper weapons to defend themselves with when they selflessly go out to try and protect innocents and their property from these thugs, I stop caring about them and just want them dealt with. If they called in the army to deal with them, I'd probably support the move.

I actually agree with you, i think that the extent to which this has gone is far beyond a reasonable protest or even social upheaval. Once looting became the main objective, the whole thing lost its legitimacy as a display of public disapproval. However, I think society today isnt going to jive with too aggressive of a response. People find any reason they can to blame police and government for any and everything, whethere its merited or not. If the army comes in and someone gets killed or seriously injured, things will get worse. Basically, all im saying is that yes, these riots need to be quelled, and force is probably necessary, but if that force isnt calculated and restrained, the situation is only going to snowball.

[OB3LISK]

Wait wait stop arguing about if rioting is okay or not and clarify for me the reason the riot started.

Article said police shot Mark Duggan = a black drug dealer with a gun. So they started a riot over something like that??? Am I missing something?

[Lozmaster]

Wait wait stop arguing about if rioting is okay or not and clarify for me the reason the riot started.

Article said police shot Mark Duggan = a black drug dealer with a gun. So they started a riot over something like that??? Am I missing something?

Yeah thats pretty much what started it. Maybe that was a factor on the first night, now it's a non-issue. I'm very sure that none of the rioters care about Mark Duggan, and I bet most of them couldn't even name him.
And it looks like riots are starting again
Also: Bullet/ gun test results


The results show:

• The bullet lodged in the police radio is a "jacketed round". This is a police issue bullet and, while it is still subject to DNA analysis, it is consistent with having been fired from a Metropolitan police Heckler and Koch MP5 submachine gun.

• The firearm found at the scene was a converted BBM "Bruni" self-loading pistol. This is not a replica; the scientist considers it to be a firearm for the purposes of the Firearms Act and a prohibited weapon and is therefore illegal.

• The handgun was found to have a "bulleted cartridge" in the magazine, which is being subject to further tests.

• At this stage there is no evidence that the handgun found at the scene was fired during the incident. The FSS has told the IPCC that it may not be possible to say for certain; however further tests are being carried out in an attempt to establish this.

So he didn't manage to fire his own gun, but he was carrying a loaded gun, which as it says above is illegal in the uk, and the situation seemed to have escalted when they tried to arrest him. Fun fun fun...

[Razmos]

My grandparents are stuck right in the middle of it in London :/

Apparently its starting in Manchester now too where i live, i'm not surprised since people in Manchester are idiots and riot all the time, except for the fact my mum has to go right into the center for an audition for a tv show next week. I'm a bit worried to be honest. People, families, businesses, everyone is suffering because of some damn violent yobs who are raging for no reason.

It sickens me to be born in the same generation as these people, honestly.

[Erich]

The basic summary of this phrase is "White Cops with Guns shot Black Gang Member with (illegal) gun, lets loot some flatscreens". There's no justification for this. And using violent video games is the same scapegoat that's been there for the past decade. I don't know why they don't use the other more questionable "poisons" out there in pop culture. Also, even if it did inspire this, does a handful of fucking idiots have to ruin it for all of us? I know the answer is inevitably "yes", but..

[AltCtrlDlt]

But seriously, this IS NOT a protest. This is blatant DESTRUCTION and ANARCHY. now if they peacefully just held signs and yelled at the police, then it would have been fine.

I'm not trying to undermine my stance here. This kind of violent "protest" and looting is horrendous. But what good is peaceful protesting going to do? We all know how viable that solution is. It isn't. Like Eolias was quoting: their peaceful protests would not have gotten any media coverage, and would have been largely pointless, because the media wouldn't have given them a second thought.

But some of the posters here are right, this might escalate into a lot more than looting.

[Razmos]

Like Eolias was quoting: their peaceful protests would not have gotten any media coverage, and would have been largely pointless, because the media wouldn't have given them a second thought.
They shouldn't be protesting anyway, peaceful or otherwise. a bad man who did bad things was killed trying to do bad things to good people. Why protest over it? It's like when Raoul Moat went batshit and went and killed a load of people because he was "pushed to the edge" by his cheating girlfriend or something. People all over England were calling him a legend because he was able to outrun the police, and when he was killed, people were UPSET, started calling him a hero. It was completely sickening.

The sense of authority in this country is down the toilet. They all hate, abuse and protest against the police force, yet still get upset and demand help when they are in trouble. The police should just disappear for a while to teach them all a lesson when the country goes to hell >_>

[Nikkey]

They shouldn't be protesting anyway, peaceful or otherwise.

They have the rights to protest peacefully against the state, regardless of what we think about the case. This is not a protest, though.

[WillDaSnail]

Man every day I wake up sh'it is starting to get worse now.....this is looking like the 1992 LA race riots in some way or form.

Can't they just bring in the military and use strong-arm tatics to take everything out? =\

[Lozmaster]

I'm not trying to undermine my stance here. This kind of violent "protest" and looting is horrendous. But what good is peaceful protesting going to do? We all know how viable that solution is. It isn't.

On one hand, I'm not surprised that they think peaceful protests won't work, the last 2 major peaceful youth protests all managed to do absolutely nothing. (Those being the huge campaign against tutition fees increases, which in the end tripled, and against Education Maintence Allowence which is being taken away, both of which I participated in, as did many university age people across the country), however we got lots of media coverage and interviews without resorting to violence.

When you start throwing bricks, the bricks become the message, not whatever it is you want changed. T hey should be dealt with as such, though hopefully its looking to be quieter tonight, but its oly just getting dark now, so we'll see...

Edit: from a guardian reports twitter feed:

100 white men, 30s-40s, sprinting along Hertford Rd. Shouts of "Get the Pakis."

Great, now we have people rioting back against the people rioting, and its become racism, just what we needed to diffuse the situation.

[Remoir]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsRwwQJdKjE&feature=player_embedded

You get stuff like this too. Injured guy (i presume by a rioter) gets helped up only to have the contents of his backpack stolen.

Theres Rioting reports now in Bristol, where i live. Seems to have escalated to the point where other towns are viewing it as a chance to raid stores for free stuff.

[Worthyness]

Man every day I wake up sh'it is starting to get worse now.....this is looking like the 1992 LA race riots in some way or form.

Can't they just bring in the military and use strong-arm tatics to take everything out? =\

No because that would be the government being bureaucratic asshats that are seeking to control the citizens with their clear blatant overstepping of power and would be considered too totalitarian.



They shouldn't be protesting anyway, peaceful or otherwise. a bad man who did bad things was killed trying to do bad things to good people. Why protest over it? It's like when Raoul Moat went batshit and went and killed a load of people because he was "pushed to the edge" by his cheating girlfriend or something. People all over England were calling him a legend because he was able to outrun the police, and when he was killed, people were UPSET, started calling him a hero. It was completely sickening.

The sense of authority in this country is down the toilet. They all hate, abuse and protest against the police force, yet still get upset and demand help when they are in trouble. The police should just disappear for a while to teach them all a lesson when the country goes to hell >_>

They are protesting because this was clearly a racist act on a black man that happened to be resisting arrest with an armed resistance.The White police should not have killed the man because he was innocently going to get his gun to forfeit to the police. He was a good man that would never do such a thing.

(That post was not to be taken seriously if you hadn't noticed).

This happened in the Oakland case too >.> a black man was shot by a white police officer and people "violently protested" because it was clearly an act of racism (especially when the person is reaching for something in his pocket when the police say put your hands behind your back and stop resisting arrest). IMO people only get shot when they deserve to get shot at.The case in Oakland being an exception because it was deemed an accident (police was reaching for his taser; wrong hand = gun). If the dude pulled an automatic weapon/loaded firearm, of course legal use of force was necessary in self-defense. And people in Oakland wanted the BART police to stop carrying guns altogether because it's a more peaceful solution and doesn't kill- because killing is unnecessary especially when you have to be within a certain range to have the taser actually hit. Make SOOOOO much sense to shoot someone with a taser when they have a gun.

[MrHoodBlade]

Wait, wait, wait, you guys dont see the problem here? Regardless of whether the man is a drug dealer or not, the police shot him with no reason. Yes, he had a gun, but the report says it was wrapped in a sock! The only bullet fired at a police officer came from a police issued firearm, and the only other bullets recovered/accounted for were all in his chest. How is that not a problem? Regardless of a person history, the police cant go around shooting everyone just because theyve had past run-ins. The police force in England has been under fire for corruption for awhile now. There would never have even been a protest if this was just some drug dealer that pulled a gun on the cops. The REAL problem is that people are still going around saying things like


Wait wait stop arguing about if rioting is okay or not and clarify for me the reason the riot started.

Article said police shot Mark Duggan = a black drug dealer with a gun. So they started a riot over something like that??? Am I missing something?

this and dont seem to have a problem with it. Just a couple days ago in Mississippii a guy gets assaulted and ran over with a truck ONLY because he was black. So im guessing he probably deserved it right? He was just gonna turn out to be a drug dealer anyway i guess, and they should all just DIE. Theres no evidence that Duggan was doing anything wrong when he got shot beyond carrying a gun, something thats done by countless people of every race around the globe daily. We should prolly shoot all of them too. The point of the protests has nothing to do with his background at all, and honestly, it has little to do with him. Its about police officers killing a man on principle rather than on evidence.

All that being said, the current looting and destruction of property is stupid, is does nothing but illegitimizes a movement that was actually meritworthy. But when you place the kind of societal pressures that have been boiling up there on people for long enough and then provide a spark like this, shits gonna hit the fan. Sure, he was guilty of probably alot of things, but neither you, me, or the police get to decide that he should have died for it.

[Razmos]

Possessing a real fire-arm out in public is bad enough, pulling it out when being confronted by a policeman? thats clearly with some kind of intent, he could have easily have kept the gun hidden until it was taken off him in a search, so he's either guilty or stupid. The policeman/men that shot him are also obviously at blame, but no manner of police training can prevent someone from reacting when a gun is pulled out in front of them, especially since gun crime doesn't seem to happen a lot here (as far as i am aware, i'm not a police officer).

Regardless, since the riot itself no longer has anything to do with this, all we are doing is beating a dead horse here.

[Worthyness]

See, the problem with that is the fact that the police themselves are also humans- Fight or flight. If the guy pulls a gun are you going to care about what happens if you do? Hell no! You're going to be like "HOLY MOTHER OF JESUS HE'S GOT A FRICKEN GUN.WTF DO I DO???" First instinct would probably shoot to live or run the hell away. It doesn't matter the race of the guy (unless the police looked at him because he was black; that is a problem), if your see a gun pointed at you, of course you want to remain alive. The argument i guess, for these "protesters" that is, would be that the police didn't need to shoot him- even though he had a gun, that had the potential to harm the police officers, he should have been stopped using a less than lethal weapon (aka a taser), which, IMO, does not make sense considering my above statements.

[MrHoodBlade]

Whats needed is a truly accurate account of what actually happened, because I just don't see any logic in a man pulling a gun out while he's surrounded by policemen that he knew were following him. He sends a text message saying he's being followed, gets stopped by police and then decides to just whip out a gun? That makes no sense to me. This is a person thats already been arrested before, let me remind you. All i'm saying is that, he clearly already knows the process and procedure of an arrest and there would be no reason for him to pull that gun out. Were there any eyewitnesses other than police? Why was there a police issue bullet in a cops radio? The situation is fishy regardless.

But, as someone said before me, the topic at hand is the riots themselves, andas Ive said before, theyre no longer about this incident or any other for that matter. If anything, they just show the severity of the economic pressure thats on these people, low-income communities threatened with job cuts in an economic recession are going to jump at any bone they can, and this whole thing shows that perfectly.

[Worthyness]

Whats needed is a truly accurate account of what actually happened, because I just don't see any logic in a man pulling a gun out while he's surrounded by policemen that he knew were following him. He sends a text message saying he's being followed, gets stopped by police and then decides to just whip out a gun? That makes no sense to me. This is a person thats already been arrested before, let me remind you. All i'm saying is that, he clearly already knows the process and procedure of an arrest and there would be no reason for him to pull that gun out. Were there any eyewitnesses other than police? Why was there a police issue bullet in a cops radio? The situation is fishy regardless.




Some people never learn, which is why there are repeat offenders. Only he can explain why he would do it. From our view, it seems fairly obvious that you shouldn't whip a gun out with police tailing you. And that's another thing that the police have against them if (when?) they get a trial- it's their word against his since possibly no one else saw or hear anything, leading them to probably be freed on no jail time or probation or anything. Police bullet in the radio would suggest that: the police officers shot at each other (lol) or a bullet ricocheted off something and still had enough kinetic energy to pierce the radio. Also possible dead guy was using a police issued weapon/bullets, not too hard to do that either.

Then there's movie logic where they'd much rather die than become dead at the hand of something larger than them (like a cocaine ring or something).

Rioting still doesn't give anyone reason to loot. This is what i found most stupid and ridiculous about the Oakland riots. not only did they have nothing to do with the reason for the protest, but it also interrupted innocent peoples' store fronts, robbed them of their honest efforts, and made them scared for their own personal securities. I mean, they fricken tried to rob SEARS and a Foot Locker for crying out loud.

[The Great One]

My highstreet was just completely looted, buildings are destroyed. Sad thing is that the economy is going to take a large hit from this, making the economic situation even worse. And this :

ITV Reporter: Is rioting the correct way to express your discontent?
Young Londoner: You wouldn't be talking to me now if we didn't riot, would you?
ITV Reporter: ...
Young Londoner: Two months ago we marched to Scotland Yard, more than 2,000 of us, all blacks, and it was peaceful and calm and you know what? Not a word in the press. Last night a bit of rioting and looting and look around you.

I have to agree with this peaceful protesting dose nothing.

[Lozmaster]

I believe the first shooting occured near/ inside a cab, so there should be at least one witness, and possibly video/sound recorded footage depending on the cab company

[MrHoodBlade]

Some people never learn, which is why there are repeat offenders. Only he can explain why he would do it. From our view, it seems fairly obvious that you shouldn't whip a gun out with police tailing you. And that's another thing that the police have against them if (when?) they get a trial- it's their word against his since possibly no one else saw or hear anything, leading them to probably be freed on no jail time or probation or anything. Police bullet in the radio would suggest that: the police officers shot at each other (lol) or a bullet ricocheted off something and still had enough kinetic energy to pierce the radio. Also possible dead guy was using a police issued weapon/bullets, not too hard to do that either.

Then there's movie logic where they'd much rather die than become dead at the hand of something larger than them (like a cocaine ring or something).


All true/possible, but this guy had four kids, and his neighbors/family all vouch for him being a pretty good guy. I mean obviously he was a criminal, but that's not always synonymous with being a bad person in this day and age, people are often forced to make decisions that don't have any obvious right choices. Plus, wasn't it said earlier that his gun wasn't police issue? Iirc it was a gun that shot blanks but was modified to shoot live rounds. I'm reaching the point where I don't want to believe the media on principle, I've seen the way they can twist things out of control immediately following an incident, and its nothing short of RIDICULOUS in some cases. I don't think we'll really know anything for a long while. Not to mention it was said that the inquest could take MONTHS before anything is definitively decided.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk-SzlsxFw8

at least someone has some common sense...

[double post....-_- my b]

[AzureKite]

GET THE PS3'S NOW WHILE YOU CAN~

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fepOQ5J-pz0

[Lozmaster]

Police have been given authorisation to use plastic bullets, as well as more armoured cars and told to take a more aggressive stance against rioters now. Supposedly spurred on due to the start of vigilante action

[Ladon]

A poor homeless man got beat brutally to death in the US by 6 officers a couple weeks ago, where's our riots?

[Raul]

A poor homeless man got beat brutally to death in the US by 6 officers a couple weeks ago, where's our riots?

Our riots?
Hell, we've got riots.
We've got riots against common sense.
Just look at the fucking Tea Party in DC.

[MrHoodBlade]

A poor homeless man got beat brutally to death in the US by 6 officers a couple weeks ago, where's our riots?

you answered your own question, this country runs on money, but i guess with recent events, it might be the lack thereof

[Lomelindel]

I read this insightful article about the England riots today: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/anarchy-reigns-and-a-nation-struggles-to-understand-why-20110809-1il4a.html

There are serious, systemic issues that have been left unaddressed for far too long. It is not that surprising that the riots have been started by poor, uneducated youths, who grew up in a political environment that has completely neglected and shunned them, and who are angry and apathetic.

People who have support networks and a sense of place in society don't generally riot. It's important to consider the wider context of what might drive a group of people to do this, rather than just focusing on what triggered it.

[Loose]

This is stupid.

[Alley]

My highstreet was just completely looted, buildings are destroyed. Sad thing is that the economy is going to take a large hit from this, making the economic situation even worse. And this :

ITV Reporter: Is rioting the correct way to express your discontent?
Young Londoner: You wouldn't be talking to me now if we didn't riot, would you?
ITV Reporter: ...
Young Londoner: Two months ago we marched to Scotland Yard, more than 2,000 of us, all blacks, and it was peaceful and calm and you know what? Not a word in the press. Last night a bit of rioting and looting and look around you.

Peaceful protests with less than 10,000 people maybe get a spot in your newspaper. Rioting gets world wide recognition. While I'm sad to see it's in the London area, I'm glad that something might actually be changed in their government. The way things are run there mirrors the other super powers of the world, and hopefully this will be the beginning of a world wide government takedown. They have too much power.

[Satellite]

Beating and robbing innocent people up and stealing is not a protest of any kind. Neither is breaking into stores and stealing stuff. These people seem to have zero braincells left.

They can't attack against people they protest against so they attack on people and stores who don't have a crap to do with anything?

How the hell can any of you support this? Are you out of your mind?

[Shidoshi]

Beating and robbing innocent people up and stealing is not a protest of any kind. Neither is breaking into stores and stealing stuff. These people seem to have zero braincells left.

They can't attack against people they protest against so they attack on people and stores who don't have a crap to do with anything?

It's more like they are throwing a tantrum to show their insatisfaction, since peacefully showing it got them nowhere.
I still think there are many who are just taking advantage of the situation to steal stuff, but it IS a form of getting attention to their cause.

[Satellite]

It's more like they are throwing a tantrum to show their insatisfaction, since peacefully showing it got them nowhere.
I still think there are many who are just taking advantage of the situation to steal stuff, but it IS a form of getting attention to their cause.
Thing is that the poor people, the ones who rioters protest for, are the ones that will get most harm from this.

[OB3LISK]

I hope police get REALLY mean and pineappleing make examples of people. No jail, no law system, treat those rooters like the animals they are.

Politically this is embarrassing for England and they are going to need to put a stop to this soon. Real soon. It's sad to say, political reasons will want them to stop this more than to help the people getting looted and injured by the rioters.

I look forward to seeing what they do.

[Foxino]

As a fellow brit, I think its all so stupid. Started in Manchester last night (the nearest big city to me)
I even agree with the police.. The guy had a gun, In other countries they wouldn't hesitate and i don't believe they should here!

Now people are just rioting for the sake of causing one. Makes me ashamed to be British seeing them.

[hadriel]

I note the riotcleanup movement.

I saw this coming when I learnt how bad things were with the poor in UK. I'm not exactly expecting this extent of riots, but hardly surprising, because it only reflects how serious things are in UK [if you realise why this is related to all the blatent looting and stuff].

Hadriel

[maplefreak26]

Forget what I said about x5 worse than the Oakland riot, its more like x9000000000000000000000000000000000000000 worse.

I felt so sorry for the guy who got robbed after being beaten up :<

[Mazz]

There were a few cases of people rioting near the town I live. I was pretty ashamed to find out a few people I used to go to school with were out setting fire to peoples cars and looting shopping centres too. :/ There was an interview on the BBC with a few girls who were part of the riots and when asked why they were doing it they replied: "because of all the rich people and the government. f'ucking conservatives, yeah. or whoever it is in power." SERIOUSLY? Blaming the government when you're not even f'ucking sure who's in power? Makes me want to punch a kitten.

I've read a lot of articles about this and I've seen a lot of (often older) politicians/people with a vague degree of authority blaming social networking sites for the rate at which the riots escalated too. It's like they try to find any means possible to throw the blame at. #riotcleanup has been trending on Twitter yet people still seem to want to blame social media for this. Makes me angry.

[maplefreak26]

or whoever it is in power

Lol'd. Well, I don't know either- so I shouldn't be bitching.

[Alex123123]

@Mazz: Well, he might've meant that w/o social networks, the riots wouldn't have spread as much as it has. Which makes sense.

Bad/questionable influences are easy to spread through the internet due to the "bandwagon" phenomenon.


It is wrong of him to blame things on social networking alone though. But meh.

[Worthyness]

I vote bringing in the tear gas canisters.

So sad that London is getting this crap now. At least its not during the Olympics.

And apparently robbing people after beating the crap out of them is a way of showing frustration at the system.

[Lozmaster]

It seems that the majority of the oraganization has been through blackberry messenger. Thats right folks, the poor and poverty ridden rioters have been organising riots on phones that cost Ł300+. Something about that is wrong, but I can't put my finger on what...

[quote]Lol'd. Well, I don't know either- so I shouldn't be peaching./quote]

Yes, but you're in california, theres a huge difference between not knowing who the leader of other countries is passively on an internet forum, and actively rioting/looting and not knowing.

(For reference, it's a Conservative/Liberal democrat coalition government, with David Cameron, the leader of the conservatives as the prime minister and Nick CLegg, the leader of the Lib Dems as the deputy prime minister.)

[CommanderJinn]

No words can explain how much faith in humanity I've lost... I feel that something like this can just as easily spark in other Western Democratic states just from how polarized the rich and poor are and how apathetic the youth of those countries are.

[OB3LISK]

Lol'd. Well, I don't know either- so I shouldn't be bitching.

It's really not a funny situation, especially the part he said.

[Sarah]

Man, that kid who got his bag looted through after people helped him up HAD A BROKEN JAW. Also what they stole was his PSP. Sony has pledged to send him a new PSP and some games to top it off. Too bad they can't send those guys a swift kick to their jaws just for good measure.

http://kotaku.com/5829812/man-has-jaw-broken-psp-stolen-during-london-riots

[Netto]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/photos/images/newsfeed/000/160/165/London%20riots.jpg?1313010679

This is so so sad :f7:

A place I once thought was a great place to be and to explore its scenery is in shambles. I'm happy that the only (sorry if I forget) person I know that lives/d in London is safe along with his family.

[Slaking]

They launched some website to collect money for the Malay student, he has only been in the UK for abouth 1 month for his study or so they said. (It's the one who got robbed)

Also, photoshops of looters (http://photoshoplooter.tumblr.com/) can be entertaining.
http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpq0koZ8AQ1r1qajlo1_500.png

[Foxino]

Man, that kid who got his bag looted through after people helped him up HAD A BROKEN JAW. Also what they stole was his PSP. Sony has pledged to send him a new PSP and some games to top it off. Too bad they can't send those guys a swift kick to their jaws just for good measure.

http://kotaku.com/5829812/man-has-jaw-broken-psp-stolen-during-london-riots

Wow that is horrible =/
B> plane ticket to anywhere...

[hadriel]

My sister is just a couple hundred metres from the riots. Not a very friendly situation [on all sides].

She'll live.

On a side note, I had a friend who died a violent death in London... 10 months ago. Knocked down by a bus and dragged for 2km. And I wanted to say hi to her after so many years...

Hadriel

[Alley]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzP-D0_Gm4c&feature=channel_video_title

Basically my take on this all. When governments fuck with things that mean a lot to the majority of the poor, shit hits the fan, especially when the government is still spending on frugal things such as their own salary.

[Worthyness]

The issue of being rich or poor does not justify robbing,looting, and destroying property >.>

And if you really think about it, the people we consider "poor" in society are not really "poor" in that there are people that are in far worse situations.

[WillDaSnail]

-sigh- At least its starting to cool off for now. Though I wish Scotland Yard would have taken strong-arm measures early on instead of waiting a bit too late to initiate it.

I did remember that during the '92 LA race riots the National Guard was activated one day after the riots started after the LAPD realized they might get royally fuc'ked. The USMC and the U.S. Army did come to LA to help near the end - fully locked and loaded - to pretty much shut down the rioters completely. If strong-arm tactics must be initiated early (and of course, without going overboard in the case of Britain) to shut down looters and stop the rioting, do it early. The "should law enforcement responded rapidly and with the appropriate amount of force when rioting got out of control?" question is going to cause some political casualties in the U.K. in the coming weeks.

[Alley]

The issue of being rich or poor does not justify robbing,looting, and destroying property >.>

And if you really think about it, the people we consider "poor" in society are not really "poor" in that there are people that are in far worse situations.

It doesn't justify it, no. But it's the reason they are joining.

Poor is poor, no way around it. It's a class of many, feeling helplessness to keep up with this consumerist world.

[CommanderJinn]

The issue of being rich or poor does not justify robbing,looting, and destroying property >.>

And if you really think about it, the people we consider "poor" in society are not really "poor" in that there are people that are in far worse situations.

Poor in relation to your surroundings. The amount of class imbalance in western society is pretty high. Actually the amount of class imbalance in society as a whole is high. Though while government may play a part in the problem, they can also play a huge part in fixing it. Budget policy is only reflective on how the economy is doing. And that's reflective on how corporations do about their business. I put more blame on them then I do on government.

[WillDaSnail]

Do consider this guys: There has been people who were caught by law enforcement in the act of rioting who were well off in terms of social status.

[Alley]

There is always going to be exceptions.