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RoyalCatManDo
2008-10-20, 06:09 PM
There's more to PKB and Arrow Bomb than the description lets us now.

We all know that it isn't a 60% Stun Rate across the board for Bomb (Especially not when comparing Impact with Splash), nor a 70% (Can't be arsed to check for the real figure) KB rate for PKB.

Both are affected, from my observations, by the monsters' KB value and relative level.

I don't know if the Archer Math Forums (Can't remember their name for the life of me) have investigated the subject, but I'd really like to see some info. There's more to these skills than meets the eye. :)

FelixTM
2008-10-20, 06:16 PM
PKB & AB!
More than meets the eye!
PKB & AB!
Skills in disguise!

...

Just doesn't have the same ring to it. :/

2008-10-20, 07:56 PM
That's right. Bomb's stun rate (if I'm not mistaken) is is 60% for all except the impact, level difference between you and the monster may play a role.

PKB is all about level difference, we are not sure how it works. All I know is that the closer to the level of a monster, the easier a time you have. Once you are over the level of a monster, you generally reach the %rate for KB. I like to psuh gobies around =P

You are looking for the Archer Guide Forums, we might as well be called the archer math forums though.

We have investigated the issue of PKB KB% and came up inconclusive, we should revisit it though. We never atempted Stun rates though.

We do know that PKB's damage formula, the AGF found that out. Not that it matters, who uses PKB for damage anyways?
Power Knock Back:
MAX = (DEX * 1.7 + STR * 0.5) * Weapon Attack / 100
MIN = (DEX * 1.7 * 0.1 * 0.9+ STR * 0.5) * Weapon Attack / 100

Kevvl
2008-10-21, 12:28 AM
Tech, When I field tested PKB, I got an exact 40% KB rate on monsters that I couldn't for the life of me deal KB damage on, and I got the KB rate+Bow rate for monsters with low enough KB rates that I could Flinch them 100%
As far as I could tell, PKB works like so:
If you KB the monsters, it's PKB%+(X)Bow%.
If you don't KB the monsters, It's PKB%.

It wasn't technically conclusive, because I never confirmed it *shrug*
I'll do some more analysis this Thursday. I'll see if level is the factor, or the KB itself.

That's right. Bomb's stun rate (if I'm not mistaken) is is 60% for all except the impact, level difference between you and the monster may play a role.
I did a quick test on AB with my Hunter, and got 60% Impact Stun on teddies. I never tried Death Teddies =P

RoyalCatManDo
2008-10-21, 02:52 PM
Tech, When I field tested PKB, I got an exact 40% KB rate on monsters that I couldn't for the life of me deal KB damage on, and I got the KB rate+Bow rate for monsters with low enough KB rates that I could Flinch them 100%
As far as I could tell, PKB works like so:
If you KB the monsters, it's PKB%+(X)Bow%.
If you don't KB the monsters, It's PKB%.

It wasn't technically conclusive, because I never confirmed it *shrug*
I'll do some more analysis this Thursday. I'll see if level is the factor, or the KB itself.

I did a quick test on AB with my Hunter, and got 60% Impact Stun on teddies. I never tried Death Teddies =P

Would "KB the monsters" be enough DAMAGE to flinch the monsters, or just their flinch animation showing up? Because sometimes PKB pushes monsters away without forcing their flinch animation (And I'm not talking about pushing them back mid-magic attack.)

Also, I'm still steadfast in my claim that Arrow Bomb's stun is affected by the monsters' KB values. Go test it out at Himes and the 1/0 KB value monsters at CWK.

Kevvl
2008-10-21, 04:53 PM
I mean KB as in Flinch. If you go over their flinch-damage, then the PKB Success rate goes up.

hehe, Sorry I never shared that on AGF. I coulda sworn I did o.o;

2008-10-21, 05:55 PM
This is gonna get confusing. From now on, just use KB as the long away KB rate.

And wow, wasn't aware of that test (*cough thanks for sharing Kev*). As for the stun rate, that proves that its said % on things lower level, I'm interested in higher level.

As for the PKB % I'll look more into your theory and go play some nest gollem tennis. It sounds pretty solid, since you can't normally flinch a higher level monster thanks to the wdef lvl modifier.

Russt
2008-10-23, 12:03 AM
Oh hey, RoyalCatManDo. I saw you around SW, you don't know me.

Anyway, I've believed for a while that 60% stun and 70%+bow% pushback are the default rates. If you deal enough damage to flinch a monster, you get the default rate. If not, you get some reduced rate (I'm thinking twice the chance to fail, but it could be something else).

Level may or may not play a role, but I don't think it does directly. Higher level monsters typically have more defense (plus level resistance) and higher KB value, so it still does have an indirect effect.

Look this over. It's still a work in progress, and will be unless someone cracks all of them with debug info. And personally even though I'd love to see the answers, I'd be kind of sad if that happened. It's like giving up and checking the answer key, y'know.

cooldog67
2008-10-27, 08:27 PM
That's right. Bomb's stun rate (if I'm not mistaken) is is 60% for all except the impact, level difference between you and the monster may play a role.

definitely, when i zak and use bomb i miss on zak. but obviously i have enough accuracy to 100% hit him with strafe/hurricane etc.

RoyalCatManDo
2008-10-28, 01:55 PM
definitely, when i zak and use bomb i miss on zak. but obviously i have enough accuracy to 100% hit him with strafe/hurricane etc.

You miss with Arrow Bomb on Zak when he uses Super W.DEF up.

That's because he puts the damage cap at 1, and Bomb's impact has a 0.4 final multiplier.
0.4 damage gets truncated to 0 damage because Maple rounds down.

Kevvl
2008-10-28, 04:29 PM
0.4 damage gets truncated to 0 damage because Maple rounds down.
If I recall, Arrow Bomb was confirmed at exactly 50% multiplier.

RoyalCatManDo
2008-10-30, 12:09 AM
LMAO, I was the one who did that, too. Silly me.

Typhoon
2008-10-31, 03:57 PM
If I recall, Arrow Bomb was confirmed at exactly 50% multiplier.

kev, ur avatar reminds me of the boss on super smash bros for 64 :f2:

summer
2008-12-08, 04:25 PM
i have done critical damage with bomb on a snail below minimum damage? (you know... critical bomb doubles... so if it's below, it has to be below 50%) or was i using an attack arrow without me realizing...? i've always taken it as 40%... i should try it again... but i've taken bomb off my keys completely... 100% replaced by inferno and hawk (21)