FA-Q.

[Avatarded]

I have a kind of simple question that I keep getting stuck on because I lack the level 120 experience with this class.

How does final attack function with straif/ultimate straif? Does it have a chance to PROc off every hit like hurricane, or just the initial hit?

I understand it has no delay/animation as it used to other than it's buggy appearance onscreen. I was just wondering if it is the source of the perceived imbalance between hurricane and ultimate straif, and if that was the source of the perceived imbalances between Xbow and Long Bowmen.

Edit: I was considering rolling a Xbowmen and was wondering why I never see any around. Any info would help.

[White]

You don't see them around much because there just aren't many around.

FA activated on each attack. Meaning each time you press the skill key. So there's one chance of FA activating per u.strafe (all 6 arrows), not a chance of FA activating per arrow of each of the 6 in every u.strafe. Hurricane has a chance of activating FA on each arrow because each arrow is also shootable by pressing the skill key each time.

[Avatarded]

Thanks for the info, that was one of the parts I was unclear on. Another is the old FA would replicate an attack, does the new FA do that? If I FA a (U)Straif will it replicate the attack at the FA damage, like 6 hits for FA damage or is it just one hit for FA damage?

[Hanabira.Kage]

Thanks for the info, that was one of the parts I was unclear on. Another is the old FA would replicate an attack, does the new FA do that? If I FA a (U)Straif will it replicate the attack at the FA damage, like 6 hits for FA damage or is it just one hit for FA damage?


1 hit, though you have 6 chances to activate it I think.

Only skills that have a variable number of hits/MP cost (e.g. Hurricane) can activate FA on every hit.

[Avatarded]

If we look at the wording of the skill "after every attack" it is vague enough to encompass "attack that was cast" or "attack that resolves" I suspect it is attack that resolves as the game has a history of functioning in that manner.

What i need do is get a Marksman to 40, and spam double shot. In theory they should resolve the same as (U)Straif in that multiple arrows are hitting one target. The magic of multi-hit skills is that the attacks resolve independently of each other.
Thanks for the help, I'll post my findings here.

[White]

1 hit, though you have 6 chances to activate it I think.

Only skills that have a variable number of hits/MP cost (e.g. Hurricane) can activate FA on every hit.

No. 1 hit, 1 chance to activate FA. 1 u.strafe has a 40% chance of activating FA.

FA is no-delay, it just pops on there as a little extra damage. In the past, it was it's own attack and interrupted other attacking skills so it could hit, but now it doesn't interrupt anything, you just attack normally and it'll do it's own damage independently (with a little red pop where your arrows hit).

[Avatarded]

The trick is with all the mechanics changes of Chaos from BB i would not be surprised to see FA PROc resolving during the hit resolution. A screen shot would be the end all to this conversation. Unfortunately Xbowmen are sufficiently rare i expect to not see one; luckily however in terms of mechanics Double Shot is identical in PROc resolution even if it doesn't have as many hits as straif, because it does multiple hits on one activation.

If I could recruit others to level a xBow to the point where FA is maxed out, and screen shot their results, then i'd be happy to not be the only one doing it. It would be a good exercise, afterword you have a miner/herbalist you can use for future farming.

Edit: For the screen shot we are looking for a Four hit double shot.

[White]

The trick is with all the mechanics changes of Chaos from BB i would not be surprised to see FA PROc resolving during the hit resolution. A screen shot would be the end all to this conversation. Unfortunately Xbowmen are sufficiently rare i expect to not see one; luckily however in terms of mechanics Double Shot is identical in PROc resolution even if it doesn't have as many hits as straif, because it does multiple hits on one activation.

If I could recruit others to level a xBow to the point where FA is maxed out, and screen shot their results, then i'd be happy to not be the only one doing it. It would be a good exercise, afterword you have a miner/herbalist you can use for future farming.

Edit: For the screen shot we are looking for a Four hit double shot.

You won't get one. You can take my word and save yourself a lot of time or do it yourself and waste your time.

[Lozmaster]

There is no argument over this, FA activates once per time you cast ultimate strafe. Under no circumstance will you ever find it activating more. Feel free to try testing it, but White is absolutely correct.

[Avatarded]

Then that would mean that xbowmen are, by comparison to bowmen, statistically useless single target. Snipe seems like a gimic since it's changes to boss damage, and the cool down at best, interrupts your pierce spam. Piercing arrow seems like it's the ticket for xbowmen, other than it got its teeth ripped out for pvp (but that's every skill), not that getting 6 people to just stand and take it seemed all that viable to begin with. In bossing you'll never hit more than two-four targets with it at once.

It seems that the xBowmen isn't the only class that Wizet/Nexon made incurably obsolete; but it is my most recent disappointment.

Edit: Sorry if I seem dense, I likely am, it took me a few posts to realize there is no difference between bow final attack and xbow final attack when it comes to job 1 skills.

[White]

Then that would mean that xbowmen are, by comparison to bowmen, statistically useless single target. Snipe seems like a gimic since it's changes to boss damage, and the cool down at best, interrupts your pierce spam. Piercing arrow seems like it's the ticket for xbowmen, other than it got its teeth ripped out for pvp (but that's every skill), not that getting 6 people to just stand and take it seemed all that viable to begin with. In bossing you'll never hit more than two-four targets with it at once.

It seems that the xBowmen isn't the only class that Wizet/Nexon made incurably obsolete; but it is my most recent disappointment.

Edit: Sorry if I seem dense, I likely am, it took me a few posts to realize there is no difference between bow final attack and xbow final attack when it comes to job 1 skills.

Not at all. U.Strafe hits more than hurricane. But hurricane with fa hits more than u.strafe with fa. Add to that a higher multiplier for the base attacks of u.strafe (which is more than the base attacks of hurricane) and ultimately you come out with very similar single target dps. Add to that snipe and pierce and you actually get a very potent MM.

As for pvp, MM's are better than BM's. Hurricane has a dreadfully bad cd that makes it practically unusable. I use straight up inferno be it against a single target or mob. MM's can use blizzard or pierce on mobs and u.strafe on single targets, they are better in pvp imo.

[Marksman Bryan]

I do a lot better single target than most BMs I know. Especially on bosses now, snipe hits 700-900k x4. Not like there are any bosses that require a party, though.. This might be because I don't know any BMs that are as heavily funded as me.

I rarely use pierce now that I'm 200, except when I am hunting for a drop. Actually, I use it a lot more often since AE is soooo slow now. For PvP, US+Snipe with frostprey up is the best. I can come in top 3 usually, with no battle attack. Just grab a power up buff and rape everyone with snipe, it usually does 40-50% of their HP, US ~25% (for me).

For bossing, it's US+Snipe again. Snipe is actually useful now post-chaos.

Marksmen are obsolete because other classes can output more damage with the same amount of funding. I know NLs that do 1.5x-2x my damage with the same amount of % stat, and yes, that is kind of depressing. I chose to make a Sniper because of it's rarity back in the day (way before 4th job).

As for FA, White is 100% correct. It only activates once per skill use - BM benefit more from this because every hurricane arrow counts as a different attack :/


Ok, I think I covered everything lol :3

[Avatarded]

I feel a bit like a pineapple, I had completely discounted the multiplier from the actual skill, a noobish oversight indeed. I do enjoy hearing how things work in practice as I don't get much of that. TBH i spent the last 3 hours today doing mathematical proofs to form a decent explanation of a stance on a nearly-sexist debate (why men and women communicate the way they do and how it is problematic) coupled with my lack of bowmen experience my maplestory research didn't get the attention it deserved.

Thanks for the help on this everyone, White especially.

Edit:



Marksmen are obsolete because other classes can output more damage with the same amount of funding. I know NLs that do 1.5x-2x my damage with the same amount of % stat, and yes, that is kind of depressing. I chose to make a Sniper because of it's rarity back in the day (way before 4th job).
This statement stood out to me, I was curious about the viability of critical rings for a full 95-100% crit chance. I was wondering if the damage stability of full crit was worth the investment by comparison to a stat ring or something of that nature. The reason I was leaning toward MM in the first place was that crit reliability seemed to further augment every investment as a pure multiplier.

[White]

With crit ring, and no extra crit on potential, but with SE, you'll have 75% crit. Getting that to 95-100 would be awesome, but crits aren't what they used to be. I'll do 130k non crit and 200k crit. Unlike back in the day when it would be 100k non crit and 300k crit.

[Avatarded]

I see, i have further questions to ask on the subject but this is not the thread to do it in.

FA /thread
Resolved.

Many thanks.

[White]

Yeah just head over to the ask a bowman thread. (http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=160)