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JoeTang
2011-06-15, 04:09 PM
With Chaos came many new changes to the Aran class. First and foremost, no skills require quests to learn. With that being said, I will overview the important changes.

Mob Damage Distribution:
A rather puzzling dilemma that has been bothering many people, the formula isn't very known, but it has seemingly changed in Chaos. Previously, it was approximated by
f(x) = 1/7 * (2 + 5/x)
correct me if I'm wrong; however, after Chaos, the modifier for two-mob damage has increased from what this outputs to ~66% to 70%. Along with this, a new skill added in 3rd job reduces the amount of damage lost when attacking multiple monsters. For whatever reason, many idiots believed this skill to reduce your overall damage to increase some ignore defense. Don't believe them.
Damage distribution now follows this approximation
Maxed Cleaving Blow - No Cleaving Blow
1: 100%
2: 85% - 70%
3: 77% - 56%
4: 75% - 50%
5: 73% - 44%
6: 71% - 42%
7: 69% - 38%
8: 67% - 36%
Cleaving Blow reduces the amount lost by x%. If you lose 30% normally (2 monsters), with level 1 cleaving Blow you would lose 26.4%, and with maxed Cleaving Blow you would lose 15%
I thoroughly tested the results with Rolling Spin to have a large amount of sample space, but it is extremely difficult to find an area with 7+ monsters to hit with any kind of attack without building Combo. Thus, I extrapolated 7 and 8.

Final Charge & Final Toss:
In Chaos, a new skill was added to 4th job called Sudden Strike. Having a single point in this skill allows you to use Final Charge and Final Toss at any moment; however, this would be problematic if you were to try to attack while moving, so the key combinations for Final Charge and Final Toss were changed (Final Blow presumably remains the same).
Final Charge now uses Back -> Forward -> Attack, forward being the direction you want to charge in.
Final Toss now uses Down -> Up -> Attack.
They use this regardless of whether or not you have learned Sudden Strike. The skill descriptions still state their old activation combinations. This is wrong, and I do not believe Nexon will fix it when the Chaos go live.
With Sudden Strike, you can indefinitely spam Final Toss. With maxed Sudden Strike, Final Toss does 455% per hit. Final Toss takes 420ms on standard. Therefore, on a monster that cannot be Tossed, standalone DPS would be 1083%/s. In Comparison, maxed Overswing does 1061%/s . Final Toss and Final Charge are not affected by damage distribution. Presumably, the best DPS would then to be to use Overswing + Final Blow on single targets which is better (though I think the margin is very small), and Final Toss on multiple Targets.

Rolling Spin:
Much was changed about Rolling Spin. It now does 4 hits, does not have bugged out hit rate, does not push monsters back, and stuns. At level 1, it hits 4 monsters, and does 57%x4 and 95%x4 at max. With a base speed of 840ms, it does 452%/s, liable to damage distribution. Comparatively, Full Swing does 648%/s (686%/s with maxed Final Toss). Assuming you can juggle a monster indefinitely from Final Toss with Full Swing (you can't), you would do 895%/s. Assuming you can juggle a monster indefinitely with Rolling Spin (which you can), you would do 928%/s. The %/s is very marginal in using Rolling Spin. Its utility is mainly to stun monsters, juggle in 4th job, and recharge combo quickly as it hits 4 times. That being said, the only reason to max it would be to gain the 6th monster hit and possibly increase the stun rate as it is not particularly strong DPS compared to other 4th job options, and even during 3rd job; however, the alternative skills to invest in are Smart Knockback, which is useless, Final Charge, which may or may not be useful to hit more than 8 monsters, and Polearm Booster.

Snow Charge:
Snow Charge gives a passive 35% damage modifier. The charge does not need to be active to gain the damage boost. It is always active. Activating Snow Charge only allows the slowing effect and the ice attribute on attacks.

Combo Finishers:
The buttons at the side of the screen that tell you how to perform Combo Finishers are incorrect. They are correctly listed in your skill book.

Smart Knockback:
This skill is fundamentally useless. No monster has enough knockback that a standard Aran cannot knock it back, in my opinion. The only case where this could possibly be an issue is your Normal Attack on 8 monsters.


With that being said, I believe the following to be the best build
1st: 16 Booster max everything else
2nd: 12 Final Charge, 9 Body Pressure, max everything else
3rd: 0 Smart Knockback, max everything else, put spare points (11) into Final Charge, Body Pressure, and Booster.
4th: 1 Sudden Attack, 1 Overswing, 1 High Mastery, and the rest depends on how you want to train


If there is anything I missed, or anything that requires clarification, let me know.

RobinTheHood
2011-06-19, 10:08 PM
Is Full Swing+Toss better than Full Swing in 3rd job?

JoeTang
2011-06-19, 10:30 PM
Yes.

UniBoy
2011-06-19, 11:10 PM
Whats the new ideal build for arans after chaos?

IllegallySane
2011-06-19, 11:21 PM
Whats the new ideal build for arans after chaos?

He already said it. >.>



With that being said, I believe the following to be the best build
1st: 16 Booster max everything else
2nd: 12 Final Charge, 9 Body Pressure, max everything else
3rd: 0 Smart Knockback, max everything else, put spare points (11) into Final Charge, Body Pressure, and Booster.
4th: 1 Sudden Attack, 1 Overswing, 1 High Mastery, and the rest depends on how you want to train

LargestRoad
2011-06-21, 01:38 PM
I feel that points taken out of booster should instead be taken out of fenrir, as fenrir feels like quite a waste of combos, and you only need 10 fenrir as a prerequisite. Also, 1 smart knockback might still be needed because currently, I'm not aware of any skills other than SKB and snow charge that activate cwkpq sigils, and snow charge is moving out of 3rd job.

Is final toss spam really that good compared to overswing? If so, the best early 4th job skill build could be maxing sudden strike right after 29 high mastery, which would save the huge pain of finding overswing 20 and 30, though they may become more common after chaos. Are you sure final toss isn't subject to mob damage reduction in chaos, because I believe that's the case right now pre-chaos. Also, what level does final blow need to be to be worth using if range is not an issue? Thanks.

JoeTang
2011-07-01, 10:35 AM
I feel that points taken out of booster should instead be taken out of fenrir, as fenrir feels like quite a waste of combos, and you only need 10 fenrir as a prerequisite. Also, 1 smart knockback might still be needed because currently, I'm not aware of any skills other than SKB and snow charge that activate cwkpq sigils, and snow charge is moving out of 3rd job.

Is final toss spam really that good compared to overswing? If so, the best early 4th job skill build could be maxing sudden strike right after 29 high mastery, which would save the huge pain of finding overswing 20 and 30, though they may become more common after chaos. Are you sure final toss isn't subject to mob damage reduction in chaos, because I believe that's the case right now pre-chaos. Also, what level does final blow need to be to be worth using if range is not an issue? Thanks.

Fenrir has extremely long range and can still easily OHKO monsters. Judgement's range is pathetically small and only good for when you've already rushing something together or bossing. Judgement is also Ice Element I believe unlike Fenrir.

Going from 0 combo to 200+, Final Toss is better than Overswing + Final Blow until Final Blow is around level 18. Overswing + Final Blow gathers combo significantly faster, but Final Toss just does more damage. In a scenario where you're already at 100+ Combo, Final Toss will always be better. The only issue with Final Toss is its hitbox. It's extremely small and cannot hit monsters it has already tossed unless you jump.

I feel that 10 Sudden Strike after getting 1 High Mastery and 1 Overswing is the best build unless you're just unable to use Final Toss effectively. If you really want to DPS with Final Toss, you'd get max High Mastery afterwards, and then likely Freeze Standing since being knocked back is very bad with Final Toss. For me anyways.

LargestRoad
2011-07-01, 10:45 AM
Fenrir has extremely long range and can still easily OHKO monsters. Judgement's range is pathetically small and only good for when you've already rushing something together or bossing. Judgement is also Ice Element I believe unlike Fenrir.

Going from 0 combo to 200+, Final Toss is better than Overswing + Final Blow until Final Blow is around level 18. Overswing + Final Blow gathers combo significantly faster, but Final Toss just does more damage. In a scenario where you're already at 100+ Combo, Final Toss will always be better. The only issue with Final Toss is its hitbox. It's extremely small and cannot hit monsters it has already tossed unless you jump.

I feel that 10 Sudden Strike after getting 1 High Mastery and 1 Overswing is the best build unless you're just unable to use Final Toss effectively. If you really want to DPS with Final Toss, you'd get max High Mastery afterwards, and then likely Freeze Standing since being knocked back is very bad with Final Toss. For me anyways.

Luckily, getting 80+ combo for judgment doesn't disable you from using fenrir the way that getting 200+ combo for tempest does due to a different key combination. Outside of regular monsters, which die to level 17 fenrir anyways, fenrir just doesn't seem useful at bosses or LHC. I guess it doesn't really matter though.

hadriel
2011-07-01, 10:52 AM
1OS, 1FB, 1 SS, then run either SS or HM. Toss... you have to learn to juggle. You can juggle using OS indefinitely, though maybe not with OS+FB.

KB-ed? Jump-attack - you'll learn to time your jumps and attacks to you taking mob damage/mob attacks.

I'm neutral to Fenrir, but I'd rather not waste the combos since I usually Charge monsters which primes things for Judgement (Judgement is very very good DPS) plus frozen + neutralised = weeeee~~~

Hadriel

JoeTang
2011-07-01, 11:04 AM
The way I Final Toss basically breaks the game and doesn't stop attacking for a good 5 seconds after I've stopped inputting. No amount of knowing how to jump-attack, which I full well know how to do, is going to help me.

I don't understand why anyone is so opposed to maxing Fenrir. There's no reason to add points to Smart Knockback.

LargestRoad
2011-07-01, 11:12 AM
1OS, 1FB, 1 SS, then run either SS or HM. Toss... you have to learn to juggle. You can juggle using OS indefinitely, though maybe not with OS+FB.

KB-ed? Jump-attack - you'll learn to time your jumps and attacks to you taking mob damage/mob attacks.

I'm neutral to Fenrir, but I'd rather not waste the combos since I usually Charge monsters which primes things for Judgement (Judgement is very very good DPS) plus frozen + neutralised = weeeee~~~

Hadriel

Juggling isn't a problem because LHC/boss monsters don't go into the air anyways. The knockback problem is mostly fixed with freeze standing.


The way I Final Toss basically breaks the game and doesn't stop attacking for a good 5 seconds after I've stopped inputting. No amount of knowing how to jump-attack, which I full well know how to do, is going to help me.

I don't understand why anyone is so opposed to maxing Fenrir. There's no reason to add points to Smart Knockback.

Points dropped from fenrir would go to booster. You still need 1 smart knockback for cwkpq sigils.

Satellite
2011-07-01, 11:54 AM
I kind of screwed up with my SP reset, cause I didn't know I should have used 3rd SP:s on Final Charge. It's 11 now, booster is maxed (kind of accidentally as well) and SKB is lvl7. I only looked at the build I should end up with and maxing out Final Charge was hidden in the description of the guide so I didn't notice it :s

How much dmg did I lose due to not maxing Final Charge?

Here's my build out of my head:

1st job

MAX Combat Step
MAX Combo Smash
MAX Double Swing
MAX Combo Ability
MAX Pole Arm Booster

2nd job

MAX Pole Arm Mastery
MAX Snow Charge
MAX Triple Swing
MAX Combo Drain
MAX Combo Fenrir
MAX Body Pressure
11 Final Charge

3rd Job

MAX Full Swing
MAX Cleaving Attack
MAX Combo Critical
MAX Combo Recharge
MAX Rolling Spin
MAX Combo Judgment
MAX Final Toss
7 Smart Knockback

4th job

10 Overswing ( L>OS20 ;_; )
20 High Mastery ( L> HM30 )
2 Final Blow
1 Freeze Standing

+20 SP:s saved for max OS

Locked
2011-07-01, 11:59 AM
Points dropped from fenrir would go to booster. You still need 1 smart knockback for cwkpq sigils.

I'm sure other skills work.

JoeTang
2011-07-01, 12:00 PM
I kind of screwed up with my SP reset, cause I didn't know I should have used 3rd SP:s on Final Charge. It's 11 now, booster is maxed (kind of accidentally as well) and SKB is lvl7. I only looked at the build I should end up with and maxing out Final Charge was hidden in the description of the guide so I didn't notice it :s

How much dmg did I lose due to not maxing Final Charge?

Here's my build out of my head:

1st job

MAX Combat Step
MAX Combo Smash
MAX Double Swing
MAX Combo Ability
MAX Pole Arm Booster

2nd job

MAX Pole Arm Mastery
MAX Snow Charge
MAX Triple Swing
MAX Combo Drain
MAX Combo Fenrir
MAX Body Pressure
11 Final Charge

3rd Job

MAX Full Swing
MAX Cleaving Attack
MAX Combo Critical
MAX Combo Recharge
MAX Rolling Spin
MAX Combo Judgment
MAX Final Toss
7 Smart Knockback

4th job

10 Overswing ( L>OS20 ;_; )
20 High Mastery ( L> HM30 )
2 Final Blow
1 Freeze Standing

+20 SP:s saved for max OS

Lol you can only rush 7 monsters.