Show me your lunchbox!

[Redoutable]

Now I know mine (http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lunchboxscrollednc3.png)'s probably not the best around, but I'm exited to get to Paladin and try it out. I'd just like to see how others tried to scroll theirs. :shine:
Oh and in case you were wondering, the 2 scrolls I failed were the first two. (A 60% then a 30%)

[Johnnywup]

Errr, you do realize GM scrolls for 1h swords exist, for turning in 50 nightshadow badges. My guildleader is gonna perfect scroll it :3

[Birdie]

Errr, you do realize GM scrolls for 1h swords exist, for turning in 50 nightshadow badges. My guildleader is gonna perfect scroll it :3

yeah its possible, but its not like you get a gm scroll 50% of the time you turn in badges. Some people think that that the fact the scrolls are even in the exchange is a mistake and will be removed soon.

[Johnnywup]

yeah its possible, but its not like you get a gm scroll 50% of the time you turn in badges. Some people think that that the fact the scrolls are even in the exchange is a mistake and will be removed soon.

Still. If its gonna be removed, i have no need for it, so do it.:eek:

[XtremeBeast]

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/4071/maple0018nj0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/maple0018nj0.jpg/1/w800.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img410/maple0018nj0.jpg/1/)

[ahoboandahal]

White scrolls or gm scrolls?

[Cold Fire]

either way it's freakin godly. I scrolled mine before knowing about this gm scroll. but yeah, it's 119/5 now.

[VarsityHero]

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/2548/maple0775nu5.jpg

[kIkO]

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/2548/maple0775nu5.jpg

Holy crap o______o

[»-Chris->]

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/2548/maple0775nu5.jpg
Shit, that's a nice lunch box.

[Erich]

he GM scrolled it prob

[Ian]

holy crap at gm scrolls from a quest. Wish this shit was around when I still played gms >:
Forgive my ignorance, but is a lunchbox like a normal 1h sword? or red katana speed?

[Laceration]

It's fast (4).


So Red Katana speed :redface:

[Ian]

holy crap thats godly.

[»-Chris->]

holy crap thats godly.
Ya, way to make axe/bw users fucked even more.

[b00t]

Oh don't worry, I saw this coming ages ago. Now to sit and wait until they just plain old remove axe/BW from the data.

[Nikkey]

Oh don't worry, I saw this coming ages ago. Now to sit and wait until they just plain old remove axe/BW from the data.

Or just wait for them to change 8/4 constant values.

[Findings]

holy crap at gm scrolls from a quest. Wish this pomegranate was around when I still played gms >:

*looks at your sig*

It was around last week...
They've been available from the exchange quest since CWK was released.
edit: Oh, pserver. nvm then.

My lunchbox is clean still. I'm waiting to see if there's a better Nightshadow map released in the supposed upcoming expansion before I start spending so much time hunting.

[Redoutable]

Wow nice scrolling xD.

I didn't feel like putting in the time and effort for GM Scrolling it, I like the feel of Two-Handed Sword more anyways. The extra range means something to a Paladin, unlike a Hero.

[butterfλi]

*looks at your sig*

It was around last week...
They've been available from the exchange quest since CWK was released.

maplestory is not limited to gms alone. 7+ billion to make a 144/21 1h sword >_> some of you guys should try baiting dark scrolls.

[Stereo]

some of you guys should try baiting dark scrolls.

I hear the placebo effect works really well on all one-of-a-kind, lose-it-and-you-can't-replace-it items.


Seriously if you use a cursed scroll on a lunchbox you must really not need it much.

[butterfλi]

I hear the placebo effect works really well on all one-of-a-kind, lose-it-and-you-can't-replace-it items.


Seriously if you use a cursed scroll on a lunchbox you must really not need it much.

The way I see it is, how likely is it that you can fail 20 30% scrolls in a row? Not just failfailfailfailworkfailfail, but failfailfailfailfailfail. If you can fail 20 30% in a row, its likely that the 21th will hit. You might not have 20 30% 1h scrolls but that's why they call it baiting eh. It works well for my scrolling at least.

It's cheaper but riskier, obviously. And the supply of 30% 1h sword is much higher than 10% 1h gm scrolls. But if people wanna eliminate that risk by paying 7+ bil, it's their choice.

[Fiel]

The way I see it is, how likely is it that you can fail 20 30% scrolls in a row? Not just failfailfailfailworkfailfail, but failfailfailfailfailfail. If you can fail 20 30% in a row, its likely that the 21th will hit. You might not have 20 30% 1h scrolls but that's why they call it baiting eh. It works well for my scrolling at least.

It's cheaper but riskier, obviously. And the supply of 30% 1h sword is much higher than 10% 1h gm scrolls. But if people wanna eliminate that risk by paying 7+ bil, it's their choice.

Gambler's fallacy.

Each scroll has a 30% chance of working. There's no place saying, "Oh, he failed 20 scrolls, let's give him one that works."

[Chompy]

The way I see it is, how likely is it that you can fail 20 30% scrolls in a row? Not just failfailfailfailworkfailfail, but failfailfailfailfailfail. If you can fail 20 30% in a row, its likely that the 21th will hit. You might not have 20 30% 1h scrolls but that's why they call it baiting eh. It works well for my scrolling at least.

It's cheaper but riskier, obviously. And the supply of 30% 1h sword is much higher than 10% 1h gm scrolls. But if people wanna eliminate that risk by paying 7+ bil, it's their choice.

Flip a coin 100 times. It lands heads 100 times
How likely is THE NEXT flip to be tails?
50%
Always.
Always always always.
The Probability for flipping 101 out of 101 Heads is not.
But EACH of those 101 flips is 50%
...
So really cumulative stats are only useful for scrolling a SET- like what is the likely hood of landing 4 30s on my Sauna!:glitter:

[butterfλi]

Looking at it individually, yes it will always be 50% (coin), or 30/70%. But if you look at it as a whole.

Look at the chances of failing 10 30%s in a row.

(0.70)^10 ~ 0.028 -> about 3/100

failing 20 30% in a row

(0.70)^20 ~ 0.000797 -> about 8/10,000

It's difficult to fail 20 30%s in a row; it was already hard to fail 10 30%s in a row. the thing with baiting is that the goal is not to get scrolls to land, its getting scrolls to fail. the more that fails, the more likely it is for the next one to work. because as a whole, failing 7 in a row is harder than failing 6 in a row. of course, individually, they will always have the same probability.

and this is a gambler's fallacy in thinking that the more he loses, the more likely he will win the next round. but for gamblers, its a fallacy because he will lose more than he can win. for maple, you only need the win. the rest of the fails were just trash/baits.

anyway, this works for me like i previously mentioned. scrolling is a game of gambling and guess.

[Stereo]

Why does it matter if the 20 30%s fail or not? In the end you're still putting a scroll with a 70% chance to fail on your item.

They don't change the percent on the scroll. Each scroll works independently.


Any "rule" that people make for scrolling 30%s will work 30% of the time. Because that's how often they work. It's still a pretty good rate, but it's not "every time".

[Harrisonized]

As good as it might seem, the law of averages never applies to events that have not occurred yet. People who think this way usually prove it by hindsight bias, which is invalid.

[kleptophobia]

Isn't each scroll an independent variable? And thus fail scrolling does nothing but reassure your nerves.

[Nikkey]

When you've finished your 30%, its chance is over. That means, the next scroll has 30% chance of working, no matter how hard you try.

Failing 7 in a row is harder than failing 6 in a row. But if you've failed 6 in a row, the chance of failing the next is 70%(35%).

Since we don't know how the probability is "calculated", we just have to assume. However, I'd like to believe that all effects in-game uses the same random-algorithm from the server.

[b00t]

Um, What's this about the 8/4 constant values? Sorry, I'm a little out of the loop right now (work kills my brain)

[Orit]

I could try to explain about a priori probability as opposed to conditional probability, but what's the point?

Instead, try the following experiment at home:
- Toss a coin 100 times (or more. the more, the better) and write down the results.
- Now, go over your results. Every time you see three heads in a row, note what the next toss result was. (If you see, say, four heads in a row, and then tail, you need to write down one head and one tail. One head followed the first three heads, and then one tail followed the last three heads).
- Let me know if you see significantly more tails than heads appearing after three heads.
(if you are willing to do a lot more coin tosses, you can study sequences of more heads, and see whether 10 or 20 heads in a row "force" a tail to appear next).

However, we are all assuming that Nexon implemented the scrolling mechanism so that each scroll is an independent event.
I'm pretty sure drops aren't independent events. For example, over hours of farming leprechauns, I have noticed that the charms generally drop in pairs. That is, after one charm drops, another will usually appear within a dozen leps or so. And then there will be no more charms for a long time. Then another pair.
I've seen the same with ore drops from other monsters - very often I'd get two identical drops in rapid succession. But this is not as regular as the leprechaun charms.

[Stereo]

I've seen the same with ore drops from other monsters - very often I'd get two identical drops in rapid succession. But this is not as regular as the leprechaun charms.

People find patterns where there aren't any, quite easily.


If you generate random sequences they do tend to come out in pairs pretty often... it's just that you tend to remember the times it happens more than the times it doesn't. Especially with a probability as high as 1 in 20 (or whatever Charms are) it'll happen at least a couple times per hundred kills.

[butterfλi]

People find patterns where there aren't any, quite easily.

if you use 100 30% scrolls, you will notice that about 30 of them will work 35 of them will fail and 35 of them will blow things up. but you cant base a pattern to scrolling because its random each time and not gonna form a pattern.

i treat scrolling as a guessing game. something like "now that i failed 10 30%, which was a 3% of happening, will the next one hit? because failing the next one in a row is a 2% of happening". of course the next one still has a 30% chance of landing.

[Redoutable]

Heh, I like how this turned into a discussion of probability. I do realize that each and every scroll you use has an independant value of it's chance of working, but I also agree with Butterfli and Orit. I know that when I'm trying to scroll something and I fail a couple dark scrolls in a row I will go buy a valuable one and use it.

More often than not it does work and that's because even though it may be the same percent chance of working, the odds of failing it go down with each fail you get. It's all well and good to look at them as independant constants, because they are. But if you look at it as a whole it's a random assortment of pass and fail that averages out to whatever percent the scroll is. At any given time you're likely not to get more than 3 or 4 fails in a row.

I don't bait scroll on purpose but if I notice a bad streak in scrolling I will risk a scroll on something more valuable. This has usually turned out to be profitable.

[Stereo]

something like "now that i failed 10 30%, which was a 3% of happening, will the next one hit? because failing the next one in a row is a 2% of happening".
There's only a 2% chance of that happening before you used any. (11 in your inventory, 2% of the time they'll all fail)


Once you resolve 10 of them, you're already in a very small set of outcomes. That is, 10 fail 1 works, or 11 fail. They have 30% and 70% chance of happening.

[psychopat]

So you're saying that you actually understand probability and specifically choose to deceive yourself, more often than not leading to additional disappointment because your scrolls will fail way more often than 2%?

I don't see the logic in that...

edit: heh.. got ninja-posted twice. 3 posts all at 10:28 :-P

[Orit]

if you use 100 30% scrolls, you will notice that about 30 of them will work 35 of them will fail and 35 of them will blow things up. but you cant base a pattern to scrolling because its random each time and not gonna form a pattern.

i treat scrolling as a guessing game. something like "now that i failed 10 30%, which was a 3% of happening, will the next one hit? because failing the next one in a row is a 2% of happening". of course the next one still has a 30% chance of landing.

So what have you gained by wasting hundreds of 30% scrolls until you get 20 fails in a row?
You know the next one only has a 30% chance of succeeding, same as if it were your first 30% scroll ever.
It only gives you the right to whine "Can you believe it? I had 21 30% scrolls fail on me in a row!" to your buddies. Which is what is most likely (70%) to happen.

[Redoutable]

So what have you gained by wasting hundreds of 30% scrolls until you get 20 fails in a row?
You know the next one only has a 30% chance of succeeding, same as if it were your first 30% scroll ever.
It only gives you the right to whine "Can you believe it? I had 21 30% scrolls fail on me in a row!" to your buddies. Which is what is most likely (70%) to happen.


They way it needs to be approached is somewhere in between both arguments in my opinion. Yes each scroll only has a 30% chance to work. If you used 1000 scrolls, about 300 would work and the other 700 would fail.

But if you recorded each time you used a scroll you will obviously find that it is a random assortment of passing and failing, it's extremely rare to find many many passes in a row, and it's also rare to see a whole bunch fails in a row, they are randomly distributed. Since whether the scroll passes or not is indeed randomly assorted, you can assume that the more fails you get in a row, the sooner you will get one to pass.

But either way it's not worth wasting money baiting.

[butterfλi]

it's a guess. each scroll you use will always be a guess. from the first one to the last one and every in between. will it work or will it fail? flipping coins, rolling dice, various percent scrolls, they're all guesses. but rather than guessing randomly, what scrolls you failed consecutively should give you more reason to base your next guess a certain way. if youve been landing a lot of scrolls, the more you feel like the next one will fail. you cant change that fact that you'll have a 30% chance of being right and 70% chance of being wrong, its still just a guess :P

[Nikkey]

Um, What's this about the 8/4 constant values? Sorry, I'm a little out of the loop right now (work kills my brain)

stab/slash str multiplier for 2h/1h bw/axe.


However, we are all assuming that Nexon implemented the scrolling mechanism so that each scroll is an independent event.

I don't think so, I assume it's based on an algorithm with a seed. That means, the next value given cannot be computed without the last "randomly" computed number and its index.

[Stereo]

Since whether the scroll passes or not is indeed randomly assorted, you can assume that the more fails you get in a row, the sooner you will get one to pass.

Actually it's the opposite, the more fails you get in the row the longer it is before one passes.:f6:




Here's my 60% scrolling over 150 scrolls, recorded in order.

^^v^^ ^^^^^ ^v^v^ v^^^v ^^^v^ ^^^^^ ^v^^^ ^v^^^ ^^^^^ v^^v^ ^v^^v v^^^v vv^v^ vv^^^ ^^^^^ vv^^^ ^v^^^ vvvv^ ^v^^^ vv^^^ v^v^v ^^^^^ v^^vv ^^^^v v^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^v^ ^^v^v ^v^^v ^^vv^
71% worked 29% failed - .6% err

Of the 43 failures, 12 were followed by another failure (72% worked 28% failed - 2.5% err). Of the 12 times 2 failed in a row, 3 were followed by another failure (75% work 25% failed - 8% err). Of the 3 times 3 failed in a row, 1 was followed by another failure (66% worked 33% failed - 33% err).

The only thing you can say with confidence is that I have an unusually high chance of 60%s working. The number that have failed stayed consistently at 30% no matter how many previously worked.

[Orit]

They way it needs to be approached is somewhere in between both arguments in my opinion. Yes each scroll only has a 30% chance to work. If you used 1000 scrolls, about 300 would work and the other 700 would fail.

But if you recorded each time you used a scroll you will obviously find that it is a random assortment of passing and failing, it's extremely rare to find many many passes in a row, and it's also rare to see a whole bunch fails in a row, they are randomly distributed. Since whether the scroll passes or not is indeed randomly assorted, you can assume that the more fails you get in a row, the sooner you will get one to pass.

But either way it's not worth wasting money baiting.

Let me try to explain it again.

You people are saying, "what's the probability of 21 fails in a row"?
well, it's 0.7 ^ 21 = 0.000558
Very rare, as you claimed.

But what's the probability of 20 fails in a row and then success?
it's (0.7 ^ 20 )* 0.3 = 0.000239
Less than half!
So the sequence of 21 fails is actually twice as likely as the sequence of 20 fails and then success.

Meaning: even if you failed 20 30% scrolls in a row, you're still twice as likely to fail the next one than to land it.

[Redoutable]

Actually it's the opposite, the more fails you get in the row the longer it is before one passes.:f6:

Using that logic, the more times I fail 60% scrolls in a row, the more I'll have to fail before one works.

I.e I failed 2 60%s in a row and the 3rd worked. You're saying if I failed 3 in a row then the odds of failing a 4th are higher than passing the 4th? That's contradicting your own argument. :eek:

What I'm saying is there's less of a chance of the next one failing (Looking at the scrolling endeavor as a whole) if you fail several before hand, even though each scroll has a set percent chance of passing (Looking at each scroll independently). You just have to think that it's a bigger picture than each scroll, it's a series of scrolls that have to be taken into account.

Re-edit: Bad math. (What can I say, I take Bio)

I can't argue against the numbers, all I know is I must be really lucky for passing scrolls almost every time (Estimated at 90%+, I'll start recording my scrolling now) after failing 2-3.

[Orit]

Redoubtable, did you read Stereo's post?
Did you look at the "series of scrolls" presented there?

It did not matter how many failures he'd already had in a row, be it 0 or 3, the next scroll would fail at about 30%.

[Nikkey]

There we go, numbers make more sense. I see what you guys mean now. The only thing I don't understand is why you are multiplying by 0.3 (I know it's representing the chance of passing)

70% chance of failure ^ 20 scrolls = 0.0008 (Rounded to 4 decimal places)
That would be constant for both cases.
Then 0.0008 ^ 70% (aka 0.7) chance of failure = 0.0068 (Again, rounded)
Or 0.0008 ^ 30% (aka 0.3) chance of success = 0.1176 (Rounded to 4 decimal places)

Either my calculator is pineappleed up or I got opposite results.

it's not 0.0008 ^ 70%/30%, it's 0.0008*0.7/0.3

You'll get a 0,00056 chance of missing another one, and 0,00024 chance of hitting.

[Redoutable]

it's not 0.0008 ^ 70%/30%, it's 0.0008*0.7/0.3

You'll get a 0,00056 chance of missing another one, and 0,00024 chance of hitting.

Yeah I realized that after posting and edited it out. I fail at math. :f1:

I'm not arguing for bait scrolling or against it, I just tend to play the devil's advocate with a fair bit of glibness/grandiose sense of my own knowledge. (I was diagnosed with borderline Cyclothymia, currently somewhat manic)

Even with all the data now I'm still going to use valuable scrolls after failing other ones of the same %, because it's worked out for me in the past. (Not baiting, just scrolling something then scroll something of more value to me)

[alwzn4vr]

maplestory is not limited to gms alone. 7+ billion to make a 144/21 1h sword >_> some of you guys should try baiting dark scrolls.

Think of it this way: Nexon just removed 7 Billion from the economy since the item is untradeable. An excellent meso sink to curb inflation. And at 144/21 with RK speed, you'll won't find any faster DPS. Until Nexon releases another such overpowered non-tradeable item.

[Redoutable]

Woah dead thread lives :f6:.

I never thought about the fact that the mesos were being removed from the economy.. because most of them just changed hands. It also inflated one-handed sword scrolls for a while, so I was glad I had bought some before hand.

[KajitiSouls]

Think of it this way: Nexon just removed 7 Billion from the economy since the item is untradeable. An excellent meso sink to curb inflation. And at 144/21 with RK speed, you'll won't find any faster DPS. Until Nexon releases another such overpowered non-tradeable item.

Um, no. The mesos only disappear through tax. It's only the scrolls that disappear, since the 7 billion mesos goes to the seller, which will be a player.

What if you happen to get a scroll straight from the source? No mesos involved, other than the potions you bought and wasted killing monsters.

[modular]

Think of it this way: Nexon just removed 7 Billion from the economy since the item is untradeable. An excellent meso sink to curb inflation. And at 144/21 with RK speed, you'll won't find any faster DPS. Until Nexon releases another such overpowered non-tradeable item.

I HATE THIS CONVENTIONAL WISDOM. ITS DUMB. STOP PERPETUATING IT.


Um, no. The mesos only disappear through tax. It's only the scrolls that disappear, since the 7 billion mesos goes to the seller, which will be a player.

What if you happen to get a scroll straight from the source? No mesos involved, other than the potions you bought and wasted killing monsters.

this is smarter.

things like mounts, where no player profits, are sinks. NOT SCROLLS. except the crappy 100%s you buy from an npc. buy more 100% overall dex and eventually inflation will stop. :f5:

[Providence]

http://collection.movingimage.us/media/mmi/images/2/9/83765_object_representations_media_2951_medium.jpg

[alwzn4vr]

I HATE THIS CONVENTIONAL WISDOM. ITS DUMB. STOP PERPETUATING IT.



this is smarter.

things like mounts, where no player profits, are sinks. NOT SCROLLS. except the crappy 100%s you buy from an npc. buy more 100% overall dex and eventually inflation will stop. :f5:

First off, according to wikipedia a gold sink: (or for our discussion mesos)

"Gold sink is an economic process by which gold, or any item that can be valued against gold, is removed"

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_sink

How is applying 7B worth of scrolls to an item that you can never sell or trade not a form of mesos sink. The value of that item is no longer recognized in the economy as a whole. I.e. it's been removed from the economy.

@Kaj
Yes I understand that paying for the scrolls give someone else mesos. If the item was tradeable, the the seller would have 7B and the buyer would have a 7B item. That's still 14 B floating around the economy. The item isn't tradeable so there's only 7B floating. Therefore 7B is still removed.

And you're argument about scrolls is flawed. Nexon makes available to the economy scrolls that have a percentage chance of not working and destroying the item. They're called dark scrolls. So, whenever you apply a dark scroll and destroy an item you have participated in an economic process to remove 2 or more items that can be valued against mesos. Maybe an example will clarify:

Let's say you're a STR shadower and you've just purchased a 99 ATK Gold Double Knife for 20 mil, 3 30% dark scrolls for dagger for atk 5 mil each, and 4 60% dark scrolls for dagger for atk 2.5 mil each. (prices are for illustration only)

Now you scroll the item as follows:

30% pass, 30% fail, 60% pass, 60% pass, 60% fail, 30% destroy

You've just removed 20 + 5 + 5 + 2.5 + 2.5 + 2.5 + 5 = 42.5 million mesos from the economy. (not including the value of any bait scrolls and items)

Just because this process doesn't remove mesos 100% of the time and sometimes adds value doesn't mean it's not a mesos sink.



And finally, you state "buy more 100% overall dex and eventually inflation will stop."

That's just silly. Seriously, I dare you to present a case where this will ever be true.

[Avenge]

Lol... how did this thread go from posting screenshots of Lunchboxes to scrolling techniques...?

[alwzn4vr]

True, I apoligize for the off topic discussion above. I'd show my lunchbox if I'd been able to play during the event. :f7:

[Orit]

How is applying 7B worth of scrolls to an item that you can never sell or trade not a form of mesos sink. The value of that item is no longer recognized in the economy as a whole. I.e. it's been removed from the economy.

@Kaj
Yes I understand that paying for the scrolls give someone else mesos. If the item was tradeable, the the seller would have 7B and the buyer would have a 7B item. That's still 14 B floating around the economy. The item isn't tradeable so there's only 7B floating. Therefore 7B is still removed.



On the other hand, consider what would have happened if Nexon hadn't given this person a lunchbox.

He would set out to create himself a perfect weapon. Let's assume he would spend the same 7B on clean swords and sword scrolls, and blow them up one after the other until he's got the godliest sword he could make. And he's use it himself, not sell it.
Net result: a large number of clean swords "removed from the economy", and all the scrolls used on them, and finally the godly sword which is also not "floating around" because the owner has no reason to sell it.

So is the lunchbox, saving all those swords and scrolls from untimely death, really a gold sink?

[alwzn4vr]

On the other hand, consider what would have happened if Nexon hadn't given this person a lunchbox.

He would set out to create himself a perfect weapon. Let's assume he would spend the same 7B on clean swords and sword scrolls, and blow them up one after the other until he's got the godliest sword he could make. And he's use it himself, not sell it.
Net result: a large number of clean swords "removed from the economy", and all the scrolls used on them, and finally the godly sword which is also not "floating around" because the owner has no reason to sell it.

So is the lunchbox, saving all those swords and scrolls from untimely death, really a gold sink?

If Nexon hadn't introduced the LunchBox then you have a point. But they did so it's a moot point.

You could also consider what would happen if Nexon introduced yet another item that trumps the above godly sword. Let's say they introduce a lvl 140 1H sword with a 125 base atk.

Now the player has an incentive to sell it. You see with an untradeable item this can never happen. The lunchbox hero and the godly sword hero would both have incentive to get the new super dee super sword. The lunchbox hero would not have that 7B to use to upgrade to the next one. Those sunk mesos will remain just that.

The mesos that were previously used to murder all those poor swords will now make their way to some other player in the form a godly and tradeable sword.

Anyway, we could go on and on with different scenarios in a thread about lunchboxes. My point was that scrolling an untradeable item is at least a partial mesos sink even if you pay someone else for the scrolls.

[Stereo]

How is applying 7B worth of scrolls to an item that you can never sell or trade not a form of mesos sink. The value of that item is no longer recognized in the economy as a whole. I.e. it's been removed from the economy.

Difference between Gold and the items you buy with it. The value of mesos actually drops, because there are the same number of mesos but less items, making the meso to item ratio even higher.


So really Lunchboxes are contributing to inflation, because they take items (white scroll, 1h sword scrolls) out of the economy and leave mesos alone, making items scarcer and worth more.

Mounts, on the other hand, fit the description of gold sink. They take mesos directly out of the economy, and give you something that's untradeable and thus valueless in terms of the item economy.


In terms of intrinsic value, mesos are only worth what you can buy from meso sinks (pot shops, mounts, etc.) Everything else is just item bartering, abstracted a level. You're trading a 4 atk cape for a 12 atk glove, even if 3-4 transactions take place in between. If there are less white scrolls available, you have to trade more to get them to compete with other buyers.

[KajitiSouls]

@Kaj
Yes I understand that paying for the scrolls give someone else mesos. If the item was tradeable, the the seller would have 7B and the buyer would have a 7B item. That's still 14 B floating around the economy. The item isn't tradeable so there's only 7B floating. Therefore 7B is still removed.

And you're argument about scrolls is flawed. Nexon makes available to the economy scrolls that have a percentage chance of not working and destroying the item. They're called dark scrolls. So, whenever you apply a dark scroll and destroy an item you have participated in an economic process to remove 2 or more items that can be valued against mesos. Maybe an example will clarify:

Let's say you're a STR shadower and you've just purchased a 99 ATK Gold Double Knife for 20 mil, 3 30% dark scrolls for dagger for atk 5 mil each, and 4 60% dark scrolls for dagger for atk 2.5 mil each. (prices are for illustration only)

Now you scroll the item as follows:

30% pass, 30% fail, 60% pass, 60% pass, 60% fail, 30% destroy

You've just removed 20 + 5 + 5 + 2.5 + 2.5 + 2.5 + 5 = 42.5 million mesos from the economy. (not including the value of any bait scrolls and items)

Just because this process doesn't remove mesos 100% of the time and sometimes adds value doesn't mean it's not a mesos sink.

Oh, you really meant a sort of player intrinsic value. Some of us were talking about pure mesos o.O I do agree that untradeables are a meso sink. But they are a meso sink for the owner only, redeemable by whatever NPCs are willing to pay, if any.

Also, you are right about dark scrolls destroying items will lower the amount of mesos floating around, since the equipment has an NPC value. However, the scrolls themselves only have an NPC value of 1. It's only the players have hold value for these scrolls, and so whatever mesos they've earned, they'll use to buy the scrolls. The only mesos ever really lost are through tax (or if you bought the scrolls from NPCs, then you've lost a lot more).

[modular]

First off, according to wikipedia a gold sink: (or for our discussion mesos)

"Gold sink is an economic process by which gold, or any item that can be valued against gold, is removed"

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_sink

How is applying 7B worth of scrolls to an item that you can never sell or trade not a form of mesos sink. The value of that item is no longer recognized in the economy as a whole. I.e. it's been removed from the economy.

@Kaj
Yes I understand that paying for the scrolls give someone else mesos. If the item was tradeable, the the seller would have 7B and the buyer would have a 7B item. That's still 14 B floating around the economy. The item isn't tradeable so there's only 7B floating. Therefore 7B is still removed.

And you're argument about scrolls is flawed. Nexon makes available to the economy scrolls that have a percentage chance of not working and destroying the item. They're called dark scrolls. So, whenever you apply a dark scroll and destroy an item you have participated in an economic process to remove 2 or more items that can be valued against mesos. Maybe an example will clarify:

Let's say you're a STR shadower and you've just purchased a 99 ATK Gold Double Knife for 20 mil, 3 30% dark scrolls for dagger for atk 5 mil each, and 4 60% dark scrolls for dagger for atk 2.5 mil each. (prices are for illustration only)

Now you scroll the item as follows:

30% pass, 30% fail, 60% pass, 60% pass, 60% fail, 30% destroy

You've just removed 20 + 5 + 5 + 2.5 + 2.5 + 2.5 + 5 = 42.5 million mesos from the economy. (not including the value of any bait scrolls and items)

Just because this process doesn't remove mesos 100% of the time and sometimes adds value doesn't mean it's not a mesos sink.




dont misquote wikipedia at me. :f7: im still right. if you want a meso sink, you must remove a meso from the economy, not just let it change hands.

applying "any amount of mesos" in scrolls does not remove mesos from the economy, only from your wallet. this removes scrolls from the economy when you use them and serves as a scroll sink. which, like stereo said, helps scroll prices inflate.

in addition, no untradable item is truely removed from the economy because you could sell your account. the fact that this is against the ToS is irrelevant because black and grey markets exist everywhere.


And finally, you state "buy more 100% overall dex and eventually inflation will stop."

That's just silly. Seriously, I dare you to present a case where this will ever be true.

lol. how long have you been playing?
nexon did a very dumb thing a while ago, back when they released nlc.
they released the pots. that was dumb. if you want the cause of inflation today, blame the pots.

yeah, youll say "but those pots are the only pots worth buying"! exactly. because it used to have some semblance of balance. now it doesnt.
nexon decimated the only significant meso sink in the whole game.

lets say i train every day, and use 100 honsters. that costs 280k. if i were to buy reindeer milk like i had to before nlc, i would spend 540k (ugh its been so long i cant remember the price). nexon cut my pot cost in half! now lets extend this to mages... well pre-nlc, mages would buy elixirs. they got up to 8k each. mana bulls are the same 2800. nexon quartered pot costs for mages!

now lets say that across windia, maybe 5000 people train like i do every day, and 1/2 are mages nowadays. you just introduced about 2b in meso into the economy from people saving on pots instead of spending. EVERY DAY. its been like 500 days or so since nlc got released, roughly estimating. who the fuck has 1t mesos they arent supposed to have? everybody.

did you ever wonder about inflation? if you can understand this, now you know why it happened.

it isnt because nexon introduced a scroll worth 1b. its because you spent less on pots every day. and so did everyone else.

now obviously, this example is the exact opposite of what you asked for. but in comparison, the introduction of a quest that costs 5m, mounts, guild expansions, hmm what else... gem grading! which we dont have yet! they all seem pretty insignificant in comparison because none of them have the staying power (i.e. repeatability) that halving or quartering pot costs has.

the sword scrolls you complain are 1b wouldnt be more than 200m if we didnt have nlc pots. and i can be sure about that price because i can still enter the old mindset of "oh damn, im going to lose money when i train today". the new mindset of "wow, soloing pap is profitable if i npc the pots!" is vaguely satisfying, but i would happily give up a honster if nexon truely cared to deflate the economy long term.

maybe they havent noticed, or they have and are trying to play you and whet your appetite for the next facestomper, chaos scroll, scg, pac, deputy star, or ele wand X. but its a very fine balance to strike, trying to make sure net in = net out, and nlc pots have tipped the scales.

do you comprehend what i am saying? i truly want to get my point across here. because i really DO want you to stop perpetuating the crap i quoted before.

[Harrisonized]

lol. how long have you been playing?
nexon did a very dumb thing a while ago, back when they released nlc.
they released the pots. that was dumb. if you want the cause of inflation today, blame the pots.

yeah, youll say "but those pots are the only pots worth buying"! exactly. because it used to have some semblance of balance. now it doesnt.
nexon decimated the only significant meso sink in the whole game.

nexon cut my pot cost in half! now lets extend this to mages... well pre-nlc, mages would buy elixirs. they got up to 8k each. mana bulls are the same 2800. nexon quartered pot costs for mages!

now lets say that across windia, maybe 5000 people train like i do every day, and 1/2 are mages nowadays. you just introduced about 2b in meso into the economy from people saving on pots instead of spending. EVERY DAY. its been like 500 days or so since nlc got released, roughly estimating. who the pineapple has 1t mesos they arent supposed to have? everybody.

it isnt because nexon introduced a scroll worth 1b. its because you spent less on pots every day. and so did everyone else.
While that is true, without these pots, nobody but the rich would be training with the ultimates. HEck, the only people training would be those that are bent on leveling. Which means the other people will focus on making money, which means more monopolizing of Horntail, Zakum, and selling leech. And finally, which is unfortunate because it'll destroy the certain social structure of present-day MS.



Note though, that they didn't remove the only gold sink, they merely reduced the value of the sink.

[Taku]

Arent we supposed to show off our lunchbox here instead of talking about math,
that I dont understand? D;

[modular]

While that is true, without these pots, nobody but the rich would be training with the ultimates. HEck, the only people training would be those that are bent on leveling. Which means the other people will focus on making money, which means more monopolizing of Horntail, Zakum, and selling leech. And finally, which is unfortunate because it'll destroy the certain social structure of present-day MS.



Note though, that they didn't remove the only gold sink, they merely reduced the value of the sink.

dont you see, that's the whole damn point of an "ultimate". but the grindfest is such a race to get a higher experience rate that the only acceptable means is through a skill that was never meant to be spammed. youre right, the only people who would train are the rich. leeching would be a symbol of uber-wealth. mp eater would not be a skipped skill.

i dont know how you can possibly say the bosses are monopolized. zakum is killed so often now that i could compare zruns to prostitutes working out of a brothel. horntail is at worst a cartel like opec.

reducing the sink by a percentage is equivalent to removing it. if you notice the gdp of the us or any other country, wealth typically grows at about 1-5% per year. nexon has shifted the balance from something sane like the 1-5% to something totally out of whack reaching rates of probably 200% per year, give or take a factor of like 5. completely ridiculous!

so sorry taku, my lunchbox is a hearty 121/6. because i suck at microeconomics and precognition.

[alwzn4vr]

dont misquote wikipedia at me. :f7: im still right. if you want a meso sink, you must remove a meso from the economy, not just let it change hands.

applying "any amount of mesos" in scrolls does not remove mesos from the economy, only from your wallet. this removes scrolls from the economy when you use them and serves as a scroll sink. which, like stereo said, helps scroll prices inflate..

I was wrong because my example speaks to the player intrinsic value of the item not the pure mesos removed from the economy as a whole. You're right the value is only removed from the player's wallet. My apologies.




in addition, no untradable item is truely removed from the economy because you could sell your account. the fact that this is against the ToS is irrelevant because black and grey markets exist everywhere.


Actually it is. The fact that an item is untradeable means that no matter who owns the account it can never change hands. Selling/buying accounts only changes who accesses the account. The only thing you can do with that untradeable item is keep it, drop it or NPC it. This was my main point about removing the value (not mesos) of an item by making it untradeable.



lol. how long have you been playing?


Seriously? So far you've made good arguments. Don't pollute the discussion with rhetorical questions meant as an insult.



nexon did a very dumb thing a while ago, back when they released nlc.
they released the pots. that was dumb. if you want the cause of inflation today, blame the pots.

yeah, youll say "but those pots are the only pots worth buying"! exactly. because it used to have some semblance of balance. now it doesnt.
nexon decimated the only significant meso sink in the whole game.

lets say i train every day, and use 100 honsters. that costs 280k. if i were to buy reindeer milk like i had to before nlc, i would spend 540k (ugh its been so long i cant remember the price). nexon cut my pot cost in half! now lets extend this to mages... well pre-nlc, mages would buy elixirs. they got up to 8k each. mana bulls are the same 2800. nexon quartered pot costs for mages!

now lets say that across windia, maybe 5000 people train like i do every day, and 1/2 are mages nowadays. you just introduced about 2b in meso into the economy from people saving on pots instead of spending. EVERY DAY. its been like 500 days or so since nlc got released, roughly estimating. who the pineapple has 1t mesos they arent supposed to have? everybody.

did you ever wonder about inflation? if you can understand this, now you know why it happened.

I'm fully aware of the effects NLC pots have had. I don't recall ever discussing the source of this game's inflation but I agree 100% that NLC pots have had a significant impact. Combine this effect with month long double drop cards and you're introducing even more mesos.

The opposite can be seen in other versions where NLC pots are not available. You won't find ultimates being spammed day and night as they are in GMS.



it isnt because nexon introduced a scroll worth 1b. its because you spent less on pots every day. and so did everyone else.

now obviously, this example is the exact opposite of what you asked for. but in comparison, the introduction of a quest that costs 5m, mounts, guild expansions, hmm what else... gem grading! which we dont have yet! they all seem pretty insignificant in comparison because none of them have the staying power (i.e. repeatability) that halving or quartering pot costs has.


I asked for a scenario where players would purposefully use a mesos sink (i.e. buy a 100% scroll they don't need) There's no value or incentive to do so. Mesos sinks of any kind need to provide the player with some sort of perceived value or benefit. Nexon could fix the issue easily enough. Increase the NLC pot cost, remove double drop cards and introduce better mesos sinks. Plenty of traditional sinks are available such as player housing, item durability, item expiration, higher NPC fees. The gem grading system appears to be Nexon's attempt at a skill level based crafting system. We'll see what happens when GMS gets it.



the sword scrolls you complain are 1b wouldnt be more than 200m if we didnt have nlc pots. and i can be sure about that price because i can still enter the old mindset of "oh damn, im going to lose money when i train today". the new mindset of "wow, soloing pap is profitable if i npc the pots!" is vaguely satisfying, but i would happily give up a honster if nexon truely cared to deflate the economy long term.

maybe they havent noticed, or they have and are trying to play you and whet your appetite for the next facestomper, chaos scroll, scg, pac, deputy star, or ele wand X. but its a very fine balance to strike, trying to make sure net in = net out, and nlc pots have tipped the scales.

do you comprehend what i am saying? i truly want to get my point across here. because i really DO want you to stop perpetuating the crap i quoted before.

Yes I do understand. You really don't need to get so adversarial. I apologize again for the misconception of player intrinsic value versus pure mesos removed from the economy. I do stand by what I said about untradeable items. Whatever value is attached to them is removed from the economy.

And since this thread was about showing lunchboxes please PM me if you wish to discuss these points further.

[nighthawkspt]

In regards to the lunchbox. Anyone gotten a gm scroll lately or am I wasting my time trying to get one from nightshadow badges?

[XtremeBeast]

In regards to the lunchbox. Anyone gotten a gm scroll lately or am I wasting my time trying to get one from nightshadow badges?

The last gm scroll i got was on Nov. 7th. It came from Scania. As far as i know, i'm 99.99% confident that no gm scroll has been received from the exchange quest in Khaini.

[nighthawkspt]

It seems you can redeem badges all the time now with no limit? I just redeemed two sets of windraiders in a row.

[modular]

It seems you can redeem badges all the time now with no limit? I just redeemed two sets of windraiders in a row.

thats actually been around since the cwk patch and everyone hoped nexon wouldnt notice. it seems they still havent.

[Harrisonized]

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/2548/maple0775nu5.jpg
I saw another GM scroll today and wondered, did anyone actually complete scrolling their lunchbox?

Also, I saw the thread about range and wondered whether the Lunchbox provides a decent range or is it just only capable of attacking monsters close to your body or something.

[MyHarryThing]

I saw another GM scroll today and wondered, did anyone actually complete scrolling their lunchbox?

Also, I saw the thread about range and wondered whether the Lunchbox provides a decent range or is it just only capable of attacking monsters close to your body or something.

They may come from Perion gachapon. I saw a store with a GM scroll up for 1.5bil, and the title was <3 perion gach.

[Harrisonized]

They may come from Perion gachapon. I saw a store with a GM scroll up for 1.5bil, and the title was <3 perion gach.
Yea I saw that store too. 18/18 on Scania right? I walked in and it was pretty cheap considering you can probably get maxed meso for that. There's one in MTS for $1,100...

There's no confirmation that it's actually from Perion gach though. As of now, we only have screenshots telling us that it's purely from CWK exchange...

Still looking for someone with a maxed scrolled one.

[MyHarryThing]

Yea I saw that store too. 18/18 on Scania right? I walked in and it was pretty cheap considering you can probably get maxed meso for that. There's one in MTS for $1,100...

There's no confirmation that it's actually from Perion gach though. As of now, we only have screenshots telling us that it's purely from CWK exchange...

Still looking for someone with a maxed scrolled one.

Probably not max meso, c/o on it was only 800m as of today lol. My friend axethehero got a scroll for his last slot a week ago for 1,333,333,337 mesos.
I'd like to see a perfect LB too, and a range would be even nicer :heart:

[Phoenix]

Also, I saw the thread about range and wondered whether the Lunchbox provides a decent range or is it just only capable of attacking monsters close to your body or something.

Any weapon used with brandish is forced to have the same range. So there's really no worries for heroes. Only paladins have to worry about the icky one-handed range. Having never tried Blast/ACB I can't comment on that.

[KatanaKiwi]

I saw another GM scroll today and wondered, did anyone actually complete scrolling their lunchbox?

Also, I saw the thread about range and wondered whether the Lunchbox provides a decent range or is it just only capable of attacking monsters close to your body or something.

you probiably saw my failure crystal blade tread lol.. and ehm well for heroes the length of a sword doesnt matter much because brandish has a set range, which is a pretty long range, longer then a 2h sword's powerstrike etc..
the only attack where lunchbox' short ranges is a problem is finishers like coma and panic, because they dont have a set long range and you have to be close to a monster to land a finishers.. but finishers are kind of outdated and nobody really uses them anymore...

that's how it is for heroes, paladins dont have brandish ofcourse so yes for paladins lunchbox short rangs is a huge problem and also the main reason why then dont use them as much.

[VarsityHero]

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/3595/maple1140tl1.jpg

[kleptophobia]

I have yet to see a single GM scroll in Windia. Not that I have a lunchbox anyways... Does that quest still give GM scrolls?

[KatanaKiwi]

gratz on 6/7 shawn :3

edit: this is mine so far :S

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9951/mylunchboxbc8.png

[MyHarryThing]

I saw 2 in Scania for only 1B each.
Probably world xferred since I see other items in the shop that are inflated in Scania.

[jasperr]

That Shawn, is truly godly =[ Wish we had that money (Coen, you're doing great =D )

[KajitiSouls]

...

that's how it is for heroes, paladins dont have brandish ofcourse so yes for paladins lunchbox short rangs is a huge problem and also the main reason why then dont use them as much.

Not to mention you have to jump to hit Pianus if you're using a 1h sword Blast >_> Utterly terrible... (not true with long 2h swords, but I'm not sure about the rest)

Personally I wouldn't object to using a LB + watk Shield combo for bosses if I decided that conserving HP pots isn't an issue, or if I think I can pull off avoiding touch damage.

[XtremeBeast]

Finished mine last week. Last gm scroll was xferred from scania and i traded items for it, the seller's mule was later server changed to wherever it came from.

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/9223/maple0041lb0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/maple0041lb0.jpg/1/w800.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img55/maple0041lb0.jpg/1/)

[alwzn4vr]

Finished mine last week. Last gm scroll was xferred from scania and i traded items for it, the seller's mule was later server changed to wherever it came from.

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/9223/maple0041lb0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/maple0041lb0.jpg/1/w800.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img55/maple0041lb0.jpg/1/)

Just WOW ! Love to see your range with an onyx apple.

[KatanaKiwi]

gratz to extremebeast on 7/7 then :)
im curious how many ppl will end up with fully 10%stat'd lunchboxes :o
im thinking about making a mini lunchbox hall of fame somewhere :P are there any other 7/7 legit lunchboxes known?

edit: did 1swordplayer ever finish his?
edit2: maybe a bit irrelevant but why would the mule that traded you the scroll use servertransfers if gm scrolls are mtsable? oh well i guess im just overthinking stuff :P i guess he just had other merching buisness in khaini

[XtremeBeast]

gratz to extremebeast on 7/7 then :)
im curious how many ppl will end up with fully 10%stat'd lunchboxes :o
im thinking about making a mini lunchbox hall of fame somewhere :P are there any other 7/7 legit lunchboxes known?

edit: did 1swordplayer ever finish his?
edit2: maybe a bit irrelevant but why would the mule that traded you the scroll use servertransfers if gm scrolls are mtsable? oh well i guess im just overthinking stuff :P i guess he just had other merching buisness in khaini

I traded ht skillbooks for the gm scroll. The gm scroll itself is mtsable, but the items i used to trade for the scroll weren't. I think harrisonized in scania got a gm scroll a long time back for 430 nx in mts...extremely lucky for him, and poor guy prob thought he got a 10% 1h sword from the exchange.

[Takebacker]

I traded ht skillbooks for the gm scroll. The gm scroll itself is mtsable, but the items i used to trade for the scroll weren't. I think harrisonized in scania got a gm scroll a long time back for 430 nx in mts...extremely lucky for him, and poor guy prob thought he got a 10% 1h sword from the exchange.

With the amount of typos in the game even if he did see it i'm not surprised he thought it was actually a 10% sword scroll.

[KatanaKiwi]

yea i dont think i would have even noticed aswell

[CrazyNomad]

anyone can tell me a good place to hunt for nightshadow badges? or whoever the badge i need to trade for 1h gm scroll.

i want to scroll a perfect carabella D:

[Chameleonic]

You could buy my scroll that is currently in MTS to start things rolling. :wink:

[jasperr]

anyone can tell me a good place to hunt for nightshadow badges? or whoever the badge i need to trade for 1h gm scroll.

i want to scroll a perfect carabella D:

We used to hunt them in Crimsonwood Mountain: Cavern of Honor
We've tested all maps around Crimsonwood Mountain, except for the bigger ones, which are hard to cycle, and had a bad spawn of them anyways.
However, are you sure they are still dropping from the quest? :f6:

[CrazyNomad]

We used to hunt them in Crimsonwood Mountain: Cavern of Honor
We've tested all maps around Crimsonwood Mountain, except for the bigger ones, which are hard to cycle, and had a bad spawn of them anyways.
However, are you sure they are still dropping from the quest? :f6:

well someone got one recently, so i guess it is still dropping :f6:

[TomasLuther]

I can't believe there are bigger servers that didn't get any scroll yet, and i got 2 in Bellocan, sadly i wasted one thinking it was a typo long time ago :f7:

Latelly i stopped training and merchanting so 2 weeks ago i found myself with 800k left, so i bought 2x drop and went to get the nightshadow badges.

The best map to get them is the one called "Cavern of Honor" which is situated in the map "The Path of Strength", inside there are windraiders and nightshadows, the map and the spawn SUCKS. The easiest way to circle the map was like this:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll236/Tomichiwar/crimsonwoodmountain_011.png

The blue dots is where you will most likely find the nightshadows. Sometimes you will have to go all the way to the left because some of them might go there and jump the platforms.

Don't even bother going without 2x drop...

With 2x drop i get like 70-80 nightshadow badges and 150+ windraider badges in 4 hours.

Some of the drops you get there are dagger scroll 60%, cape str 60%, Heaven's Justice (lvl 80 1 handed BW) and Blue Mystique Shoes (lvl 70 thief shoe), maybe there are more, but that's all i got.

Good luck. :wink:

[KatanaKiwi]

speed/jump equips are a huge huge help at hunting nightshadow badges, im pretty sure any decent hero can 2hko nightshadows, id say if you can get a haste mule you'd be hunting them faster then a bishop could

[MyHarryThing]

You could buy my scroll that is currently in MTS to start things rolling. :wink:

If the c/o is really 500k, I'd sell it o_o.
They aren`t even selling for 1B in Scania.

[Chameleonic]

lol I'm trying to, the guy who gave the offer hasn't been on for like a week.:f7: Might take alternate offers if he doesn't get back to me in the next day of so.

[D-F1am3]

sucks for my LB, lost 4 slots to 60% scrolls, 3 works 1 failed and 3 slots left, which is when i found out about these GM scrolls.

how long do they take to find??

[VarsityHero]

Finished my sword.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kQna68yEuk&fmt=18

Video chronicles its creation (as well as its failure, 13 failed white scrolls ouch).

[XtremeBeast]

Finished my sword.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kQna68yEuk&fmt=18

Video chronicles its creation (as well as its failure, 13 failed white scrolls ouch).

Congrats! but you really made a vid of a perfect atk lunchbox and left out footage of killing monsters? Such a tease...

[KatanaKiwi]

gratz shawn! and dee! gogo shandee team!

(lol sounds like shandy xD)
http://www.goodnessdirect.co.uk/detail/533558b.jpg

i cant wait to finish mine, as for now im guessing it'll take around 1-2 months more

[Harrisonized]

Finished mine last week. Last gm scroll was xferred from scania and i traded items for it, the seller's mule was later server changed to wherever it came from.
Did you get it from someone that has an ign similar to xATOMICxJR or something like that? O_o
I sold mine to him and he told me he had buyers in several different worlds. I think he specifically mentioned Khaini.

I traded ht skillbooks for the gm scroll. The gm scroll itself is mtsable, but the items i used to trade for the scroll weren't. I think harrisonized in scania got a gm scroll a long time back for 430 nx in mts...extremely lucky for him, and poor guy prob thought he got a 10% 1h sword from the exchange.
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/8061/maple0053dy4.jpg
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/5696/gmscroll2wv7.jpg
I spent the first one on a variety of things including my Elemental Staffs. I spent the second one Chaosing my HTP. That's why I mentioned in my Chaos scroll thread that since I probably wouldn't have this kind of luck again, I wouldn't be able to buy the 2nd/3rd eggs if they came out.

Sorry if this is a bit off topic.

[TomasLuther]

Fk... I'm all day refreshing the "sword for att" pages and nothing and you already got 2... :f4:

[MyHarryThing]

Fk... I'm all day refreshing the "sword for att" pages and nothing and you already got 2... :f4:

I saw 2 for about 500k ea, pretty high compared to the 1b you can pay for it with mesos. :f6:

[TomasLuther]

I know. This weekend there were 3 GM scrolls, 2 for more than 400k and one for 200k +taxes. I'm starting to merchant nx but i don't think i will pay that much for them (the 400k ones)... I already spent more than 1 Mill nx in an item and it was well worthy, but this time 1 Mill nx for 3 scrolls isn't... :f3:

[PKProStudio]

Oh hey you're that guy in Forsaken. :f2:

BTW, 200th post!

[iSnyper]

I know. This weekend there were 3 GM scrolls, 2 for more than 400k and one for 200k +taxes. I'm starting to merchant nx but i don't think i will pay that much for them (the 400k ones)... I already spent more than 1 Mill nx in an item and it was well worthy, but this time 1 Mill nx for 3 scrolls isn't... :f3:

Ive bought the one for 200k+ tax=P and the others are well over 400k... Pretty over priced considering VarsityHero had his in the late pages.:f3:

[TomasLuther]

Still a long way to go :f4:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll236/Tomichiwar/Maple0917.jpg

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll236/Tomichiwar/Maple0920.jpg

So far all Bellocan GM scrolls.

Now if only i could sell my ST for a crapload of nx (which is very unlikely), maybe i could finish it.

[D-F1am3]

nice 5 more xP
so they still are obtainable from the CWK xchange quest??? or is that one that was saved?

[TomasLuther]

Someone from Bellocan got it and CamiIox bought it for 200k mesos.

Edit 02/20: Thanks David (GameMX) from Mardia :D

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll236/Tomichiwar/Maple0949.jpg

[TomasLuther]

Sorry for the double post.

Finally finished mine.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll236/Tomichiwar/Maple0008.jpg

It's a joke to get the scrolls now...

[MasPan]

Sorry for the double post.

Finally finished mine.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll236/Tomichiwar/Maple0008.jpg

It's a joke to get the scrolls now...

And now, I bide my time until the PA ones come out somewhere...
In the meantime, I should make or buy a clean Glaive...an above av (105+ preferably) would be great, a 140 attk glaive would be insane.

[Jormungandr]

And now, I bide my time until the PA ones come out somewhere...
In the meantime, I should make or buy a clean Glaive...an above av (105+ preferably) would be great, a 140 attk glaive would be insane.

You are NOT making another one. I need those woods f3.

And grats again luther. How much did that cost you?

[TomasLuther]

I spent around 2.5 Bill mesos and 750k Nx obtaining the 7 scrolls.

[Zenkat]

And Nexon continues its giant FUUUUUUCCCKKKK YYYYOOOOOOOUUUUU to alternate subclasses.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24/Zenkat/middlefire.jpg

Nice lunchbox.
/rant

[Radius-86]

It's a joke to get the scrolls now...
Yea... there was one in MTS for 110k and another for 100k lol

[MasPan]

And Nexon continues its giant FUUUUUUCCCKKKK YYYYOOOOOOOUUUUU to alternate subclasses.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24/Zenkat/middlefire.jpg

Nice lunchbox.
/rant

The arcglaive was a nice touch for PAs, though it has potential to be used by hybrids as well...

[CrazyNomad]

It's a joke to get the scrolls now...

yeah, i got 2 gm scroll turning 350 badges (7 exchange)....

[solarforce88]

Sorry for the double post.

Finally finished mine.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll236/Tomichiwar/Maple0008.jpg

It's a joke to get the scrolls now...

Congratulations Tomas :f2:

[Orit]

Saw a smega the other day congratulating KatanaKiwi on his perfect lunchbox. True? Show us?

[KatanaKiwi]

http://i43.tinypic.com/8ydyck.png
6/7 hunted in the cave of honour before "the patch"
then grew tired of nightshadows and intended to buy the last one, but hunted the last one anyways in the new map

it was 6/7 for like 2 months so it was about time it got finished :) glad its over with

frostwaves beat us to it though, he finished his carabella 2 weeks earlier