[1.2.379] More Magician Tweaks

[Fiel]

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NOTE: Since people are getting confused about the difference between max level and mastery level, I thought I'd clear that up:

- MAX LEVEL - The maximum level of the skill.
- MASTERY LEVEL - The maximum level of the skill without using mastery books.

For example, Infinity has a max level of 30 but a mastery level of 10. This means you can put your first 10 points in it but you can't go any further until you get a mastery book to raise your mastery level.

Fire Arrow:
Changed - Image (iconDisabled (http://www.happychinchilla.info/Southperry/patch/skill/2101004.iconDisabled.orig.png) --> iconDisabled (http://www.happychinchilla.info/Southperry/patch/skill/2101004.iconDisabled.png))
Changed - Image (iconMouseOver (http://www.happychinchilla.info/Southperry/patch/skill/2101004.iconMouseOver.orig.png) --> iconMouseOver (http://www.happychinchilla.info/Southperry/patch/skill/2101004.iconMouseOver.png))
Changed - Image (icon (http://www.happychinchilla.info/Southperry/patch/skill/2101004.icon.orig.png) --> icon (http://www.happychinchilla.info/Southperry/patch/skill/2101004.icon.png))

High Wisdom:
Changed - Description (정신 수양을 통해 영구적으로 지능을 증가시킨다. --> 정신 수양을 통해 영구적으로 지력을 증가시킨다.)
Changed - Level readout (영구적으로 지능 #intX 증가 --> 영구적으로 지력 #intX 증가)Extreme Magic (Fire, Poison):
Changed - Description (자신의 모든 지속 피해 스킬의 적용 시간이 증가하며, 지속 피해 상태의 적을 공격할 때 데미지가 증가한다. --> 자신의 모든 지속 피해 스킬의 적용 시간이 증가하며, 지속 피해 상태의 적 또는 기절이나 빙결, 암흑, 마비 상태의 적을 공격할 때 데미지가 증가한다.)
Changed - Level readout (지속 피해 적용 시간 #x초 증가, 지속 피해 상태의 적 공격 시 데미지 #z% 증가 --> 지속 피해 적용 시간 #x초 증가, 지속 피해, 기절, 빙결, 암흑, 마비 상태의 적 공격 시 #z% 데미지 증가)

Seal:
Changed - Description (일정 시간동안 주변의 적 다수를 봉인 상태로 만든다. 최대 6명까지 적용 가능.\n필요 스킬 : #c엘리멘탈 엠플리피케이션 3레벨 이상# --> 일정 시간동안 주변의 적 다수를 봉인 상태로 만든다. 최대 6명까지 적용 가능.\n필요 스킬 : #c엘리먼트 엠플리피케이션 3레벨 이상#)

Spell Booster:
Changed - Description (MP를 소비하여 일정시간 동안 마법 공격속도를 2단계 상승시킨다.\n필요 스킬 : #c엘리멘탈 엠플리피케이션 3레벨 이상# --> MP를 소비하여 일정시간 동안 마법 공격속도를 2단계 상승시킨다.\n필요 스킬 : #c엘리먼트 엠플리피케이션 3레벨 이상#)
Changed - x (-3 --> -2)Infinity:
Changed - damage (5 --> 10)
Changed - prop (40 --> 50)

Mist Eruption:
Changed - Hitbox (400% (http://www.southperry.net/maplerange.php?ltx=-400&lty=-300&rbx=400&rby=300&size=1024) --> 500% (http://www.southperry.net/maplerange.php?ltx=-500&lty=-350&rbx=500&rby=350&size=1024))
Changed - damage (900 --> 720)
Changed - attackCount (3 --> 4)

Paralyze:
Changed - Hitbox (300% (http://www.southperry.net/maplerange.php?ltx=-300&lty=-70&rbx=10&rby=10&size=1024) --> 350% (http://www.southperry.net/maplerange.php?ltx=-350&lty=-70&rbx=10&rby=10&size=1024))

Arcane Ames:
Changed - prop (30 --> 50)Extreme Magic (Ice, Lit):
Changed - Description (HP가 낮은 몬스터를 일정 확률로 즉사시키며, 기절이나 빙결, 암흑 상태의 적을 공격할 때 데미지가 증가한다. --> HP가 낮은 몬스터를 일정 확률로 즉사시키며, 지속 피해 상태의 적 또는 기절이나 빙결, 암흑 상태의 적을 공격할 때 데미지가 증가한다. )
Changed - Level readout (HP가 #x% 미만인 몬스터를 #y% 확률로 즉사시킴. 기절, 빙결, 암흑 상태의 적 공격 시 #z% 데미지 증가 --> HP가 #x% 미만인 몬스터를 #y% 확률로 즉사시킴. 지속 피해, 기절, 빙결, 암흑, 마비 상태의 적 공격 시 #z% 데미지 증가)

Seal:
Changed - Description (일정 시간동안 주변의 적 다수를 봉인 상태로 만든다. 최대 6명까지 적용 가능.\n필요 스킬 : #c엘리멘탈 엠플리피케이션 3레벨 이상# --> 일정 시간동안 주변의 적 다수를 봉인 상태로 만든다. 최대 6명까지 적용 가능.\n필요 스킬 : #c엘리먼트 엠플리피케이션 3레벨 이상#)

Spell Booster:
Changed - Description (MP를 소비하여 일정시간 동안 마법 공격속도를 2단계 상승시킨다.\n필요 스킬 : #c엘리멘탈 엠플리피케이션 3레벨 이상# --> MP를 소비하여 일정시간 동안 마법 공격속도를 2단계 상승시킨다.\n필요 스킬 : #c엘리먼트 엠플리피케이션 3레벨 이상#)
Changed - x (-3 --> -2)Glacial Chain:
Changed - Description (전방을 향해 혹한의 사슬을 뻗어내 적 다수를 자신의 앞까지 끌어온다. 대상은 일정시간 동안 빙결 상태가 되며 지속 피해를 입는다. --> 전방을 향해 혹한의 사슬을 뻗어내 적 다수를 자신의 앞까지 끌어오며 치명적인 데미지를 준다. 글레이셜 체인은 대상을 빙결 상태로 만들고 일정시간동안 지속 피해를 입히며 몬스터의 방어율을 일정수준 무시한다.)
Changed - Level readout (MP #mpCon 소비, 최대 #mobCount명의 적에게 #damage% 데미지, #dotTime초간 #dotInterval초당 #dot%의 도트 피해, #time초간 빙결 --> MP #mpCon 소비, 최대 #mobCount명의 적에게 #damage% 데미지로 #attackCount번 공격, #dotTime초간 #dotInterval초당 #dot%의 도트 피해, #time초간 빙결, 몬스터 방어율 #ignoreMobpdpR% 무시\n재사용 대기시간 : #cooltime초)
New - Master Level (10)
New - Elemental attribute (Ice)
Changed - Hitbox (470% (http://www.southperry.net/maplerange.php?ltx=-470&lty=-100&rbx=-50&rby=15&size=1024) --> 495% (http://www.southperry.net/maplerange.php?ltx=-495&lty=-90&rbx=-50&rby=15&size=1024))
Changed - damage (570 --> 450)
Changed - mobCount (8 --> 12)
New - attackCount (4)
Changed - dot (115 --> 135)
Changed - dotTime (10 --> 15)
New - ignoreMobpdpR (50)
New - cooltime (5)

Infinity:
Changed - damage (5 --> 10)
Changed - prop (40 --> 50)

Elquines:
Changed - Pre-requisite (Level 5 Glacial Chain --> Level 5 Ice Demon)

Chain Lightning:
Changed - Description (대상에게 고압의 전류를 발사하여 기절시킨다. 체인 라이트닝은 추가 크리티컬 확률이 적용되며 대상 주변에 다른 적이 있을 경우 최대 3명까지 추가로 피해를 입힐 수 있다. --> 대상에게 고압의 전류를 발사하여 기절시킨다. 체인 라이트닝은 추가 크리티컬 확률이 적용되며 대상 주변의 적들을 연쇄적으로 공격할 수 있다.)
Changed - Level readout (MP #mpCon 소비, 최대 #damage% 데미지로 #attackCount번 공격, #prop% 확률로 #time초간 기절, 추가 크리티컬 확률 #cr% --> MP #mpCon 소비, 최대 #mobCount명의 적을 #damage% 데미지로 #attackCount번 공격, #prop% 확률로 #time초간 기절, 추가 크리티컬 확률 #cr%)

Arcane Ames:
Changed - prop (30 --> 50)Shining Ray:
Changed - Level readout (MP #mpCon 소비, 최대 #mobCount명의 적에게 #damage% 데미지로 #attackCount번 공격, #prop% 확률로 #time초간 기절 --> MP #mpCon 소비, 최대 #mobCount명의 적을 #damage% 데미지로 #attackCount번 공격, #prop% 확률로 #time초간 기절)

Summon Dragon:
Changed - Name (서먼 드래곤 --> 매직 부스터)
Changed - Description (일정시간 동안 성스러운 용을 소환한다. --> MP를 소비하여 일정시간 동안 마법 공격속도를 2단계 상승시킨다.)
Changed - Level readout (MP #mpCon, 소환의 돌 1개 소비, #time초 간 #damage% 데미지의 용 소환 --> MP #mpCon 소비, #time초간 마법 공격속도 향상)
Changed - Delay (600 ms --> 1500 ms)
Changed - mpCon (80 --> 20)
Changed - time (420 --> 200)
New - x (-2)
Removed - itemCon (4006001)
Removed - itemConNo (1)
Removed - damage (410)
Changed - Image (iconDisabled (http://www.happychinchilla.info/Southperry/patch/skill/2311006.iconDisabled.orig.png) --> iconDisabled (http://www.happychinchilla.info/Southperry/patch/skill/2311006.iconDisabled.png))
Changed - Image (icon (http://www.happychinchilla.info/Southperry/patch/skill/2311006.icon.orig.png) --> icon (http://www.happychinchilla.info/Southperry/patch/skill/2311006.icon.png))
Changed - Image (iconMouseOver (http://www.happychinchilla.info/Southperry/patch/skill/2311006.iconMouseOver.orig.png) --> iconMouseOver (http://www.happychinchilla.info/Southperry/patch/skill/2311006.iconMouseOver.png))

Holy Focus:
Changed - Description (성령과의 교감을 통해 모든 공격 마법과 힐 스킬의 크리티컬 확률, 명중률을 영구적으로 증가시킨다. --> 성령과의 교감을 통해 모든 공격 마법과 힐 스킬의 크리티컬 확률, 명중률, 마법 숙련도를 영구적으로 증가시킨다.\n필요 스킬 : #c스펠 마스터리 20레벨 이상#)
Changed - Level readout (모든 공격 마법과 힐 스킬의 크리티컬 확률 #cr%, 명중률 #ar% 증가 --> 모든 공격 마법과 힐 스킬의 크리티컬 확률 #cr%, 명중률 #ar% 증가, 마법 숙련도 #mastery%로 상승)
New - Pre-requisite (Level 20 Spell Mastery)
Changed - cr (50 --> 40)
New - mastery (70)

홀리 매직쉘:
Changed - Description (스킬 사용 시 모든 피해를 흡수하는 성스러운 보호막을 아군 전원에게 걸어준다. 보호막은 최대 20초간 유지되며 한번 발동되면 일정 시간동안 재생성되지 않는다.\n[재사용 대기시간 : 90초] --> 스킬 사용 시 아군의 HP를 100% 회복시켜주며 일정시간동안 모든 피해를 최대 10회까지 흡수하는 성스러운 보호막을 걸어준다. 보호막은 최장 20초간 유지되며 한번 발동되면 일정 시간동안 재생성되지 않는다.\n[재사용 대기시간 : 90초])
Changed - Level readout (MP #mpCon 소비, #time초간 마법의 보호막 생성. 보호막이 유지되는 동안 최대 #x번의 피해를 흡수, 발동 시 #y초 동안 보호막 재생성 불가 --> MP #mpCon 소비, HP #z% 회복, #time초간 마법의 보호막 생성. 보호막이 유지되는 동안 최대 #x번의 피해를 흡수, 발동 시 #y초 동안 보호막 재생성 불가)
Changed - time (20 --> 30)
New - z (100)Big Bang:
Changed - damage (305 --> 290)

Infinity:
Changed - damage (5 --> 10)
Changed - prop (40 --> 50)

Advanced Bless:
Changed - Description (일정 시간동안 주변 파티원들의 공격력, 마력, 방어력, 명중치, 회피치, 최대 HP, 최대 MP를 크게 높여준다. 블레스를 제외한 다른 모든 버프 스킬과 중복으로 사용할 수 있다.\n필요 스킬 : #c블레스 15레벨 이상# --> 일정 시간동안 주변 파티원들의 공격력, 마력, 방어력, 명중치, 회피치, 최대 HP, 최대 MP를 크게 높여주며, 스킬 사용 시 소모되는 MP의 양을 감소시켜 준다. 블레스를 제외한 다른 모든 버프 스킬과 중복으로 사용할 수 있다.\n필요 스킬 : #c블레스 15레벨 이상#)
Changed - Level readout (MP #mpCon 소비, #time초간 물리 공격력 #x, 마력 #y, 물리 방어력 #z, 마법 방어력 #u, 명중치 #v, 회피치 #w, 최대 HP #indieMhp, 최대 MP #indieMmp 증가 --> MP #mpCon 소비, #time초간 물리 공격력 #x, 마력 #y, 물리 방어력 #z, 마법 방어력 #u, 명중치 #v, 회피치 #w, 최대 HP #indieMhp, 최대 MP #indieMmp 증가, MP 소비량 #mpConReduce% 감소)
New - mpConReduce (25)

Angel Ray:
Changed - Description (성령의 기운으로 충만한 화살을 소환하여 다수의 적에게 발사한다. 언데드나 악마 계열의 몬스터에게 큰 피해를 줄 수 있다. --> 성령의 기운으로 충만한 화살을 소환하여 전방을 향해 발사한다. 언데드나 악마 계열의 몬스터에게 큰 피해를 줄 수 있다.)
Changed - Level readout (MP #mpCon 소비, 최대 #mobCount명에게 #damage% 데미지 --> MP #mpCon 소비, 최대 #mobCount명의 적을 #damage% 데미지로 #attackCount번 공격)
Removed - Hitbox (120% (http://www.southperry.net/maplerange.php?ltx=-120&lty=-75&rbx=120&rby=30&size=1024))
Changed - range (350 --> 400)
Changed - damage (900 --> 450)
New - attackCount (2)
Changed - mobCount (4 --> 5)
New - Animation (ball (http://www.happychinchilla.info/Southperry/patch/skill/skill.2321007.ball.gif))
New - Animation (effect (http://www.happychinchilla.info/Southperry/patch/skill/skill.2321007.effect.gif))
New - Animation (hit.0 (http://www.happychinchilla.info/Southperry/patch/skill/skill.2321007.hit.0.gif))

Bahamut:
Changed - Description (일정 시간동안 성스러운 최강의 용 바하뮤트를 소환한다. 바하뮤트는 다수의 적을 동시에 공격할 수 있으며 바하뮤트 스킬을 배우면 영구적으로 상태이상 내성이 증가한다\n필요 스킬 : #c서먼 드래곤 15레벨 이상# --> 일정 시간동안 성스러운 최강의 용 바하뮤트를 소환한다. 바하뮤트는 다수의 적을 동시에 공격할 수 있으며 바하뮤트 스킬을 배우면 영구적으로 상태이상 내성이 증가한다.)
Removed - Pre-requisite (Level 15 Summon Dragon)

아케인 에임:
Changed - prop (30 --> 50)

[Bloodjedi]

Cool. waiting for this.

[ShinkuDragon]

Angel Ray:
Changed - Description (성령의 기운으로 충만한 화살을 소환하여 다수의 적에게 발사한다. 언데드나 악마 계열의 몬스터에게 큰 피해를 줄 수 있다. --> 성령의 기운으로 충만한 화살을 소환하여 전방을 향해 발사한다. 언데드나 악마 계열의 몬스터에게 큰 피해를 줄 수 있다.)
Changed - Level readout (MP #mpCon 소비, 최대 #mobCount명에게 #damage% 데미지 --> MP #mpCon 소비, 최대 #mobCount명의 적을 #damage% 데미지로 #attackCount번 공격)
Changed - Hitbox (120% --> unspecified)
Changed - range (350 --> 400)
Changed - damage (900 --> 450)
New - attackCount (2)

...
seriously...?

and wow... seems like they kinda heard everyone going "glacial chain to BaM skill"
five sec cooldown, ignore 50% pdr... and is that... hit 4 times? on up to 12 monsters? dear lord.

and mist eruption got a nice boost too, cool.

[Satellite]

Bishops still suck for everything but mule-use.

[Jon]

Cool. They made Glacial Chain even better.

[Fiel]

Priests lose summon dragon but get spell booster. That's a cool twist.

[Atruya]

Spell Booster back to -2 speed. Booh.
Infinity back to its 10% damage boost, and now has 50% stance. Cool.
Mist Eruption going from 2700% to 2880% damage, with one hit more. Very nice, less chance of hitting the damage cap and buffed damage.
Improved range on Paralyze. Pretty nice, but still rather small.
50% chance on Arcane Aim. Easier to maintain the 40% damage boost I guess.

I'm happy.

[ShinkuDragon]

Bishops still suck for everything but mule-use.
goddarn, i just noticed they also made BB even weaker, but seriously? 2 hits for 450% dmg? even by mage standards that's too low.

Cool. They made Glacial Chain even better.
i am not one to scream OP or anything, but if i understand correctly, glacial chain now hits 4 times, hits 450% damage on up to 12 monsters, deal more DoT and it lasts longer, and hits over a screen, with just a 5 second cooldown?

i am gonna wait to see the mages debate this one o.O

[Malthe]

Priests lose summon dragon but get spell booster. That's a cool twist.

About time.

[DeanNim]

Spell Booster:
Changed - Description (MP를 소비하여 일정시간 동안 마법 공격속도를 2단계 상승시킨다.\n필요 스킬 : #c엘리멘탈 엠플리피케이션 3레벨 이상# --> MP를 소비하여 일정시간 동안 마법 공격속도를 2단계 상승시킨다.\n필요 스킬 : #c엘리먼트 엠플리피케이션 3레벨 이상#)
Changed - x (-3 --> -2)

what kind of fuckery is this.

[PeePeeAyeDeeKay]

Glacial Chain now = Dark Shock + Advanced Dark Chain w/ DoT & better stats & 50% defense ignore? o_o

nice updates for Bishop
-Spell Booster
-20% more Mastery from Holy Focus
-Holy Magic Shell - now heals your hp to 100%? 0-o
-Advanced Bless - "New - mpConReduce (25)" looks like -25% MP cost like Concentrate for Bow Masters..
-Angel Ray - good boost.. dear god that animation is now huge..

[sorcererdoom]

Woooo Angel Ray got sexy looking. Holy magic shell adds 100%hp for 30 seconds. Why would you need that much more hp for 30seconds but not the other 60? -_-;;
Edit: sorry it only recovers 100% hp not adds. -_-


They still need to improve Bishops a bit more. Not sure, they should get creative.

[hadriel]

Advance Bless reduces MP consumption by 25%. I'm SO loving this.

This searchbox for Mist Explosion is already sufficiently large... now it's bigger. Lolz.

And if nobody understands the Korean, Extreme Magic now applies to Freeze, Darkness, Paralysis and DoT for both I/L and F/P i.e. I/Ls get instant-kill for DoT-ed monsters. Did I forget Stun too?

Glacial Chain... from 570% to nett 1800%... 12 mobs too... the 50% ignoremobpdr pwns though. This skill actually makes it worth casting every 5 seconds because it actually does a lot more DPS than CL alone. Not so good for training though at this rate...

What lame crap... HMS heals 100% now. Does that kill Zombified players?

Forgot to add that the increased Mastery for BS... should help a lot more than the increased crit rate.

Hadriel

[Shidoshi]

Lol Mist Explosion is even stronger. This is looks fun.

Though the speed decrease is a let down =P I was liking the idea of mages being the strongest class already...

[Phoenix Wright]

My thoughts:

- About time Fire Arrow got a new icon.
- Not surprised at Booster going to -2.
- Mist Eruption feels a bit too strong. The hitbox on that thing is massive and it does a lot of damage.
- Glacial Chain is ludicrously strong. Massive range, pulls monsters, ignores defense, 1800% damage, DoT, hits 12...and only takes 10 points.
- Priests lose 10% crit rate for 20% mastery. ME GUSTA.
- Priests also get Spell Booster. ME GUSTA. Priests taking forever to cast things always irritated me.
- Angel Ray looks badass.
- And lastly, I wish they would change summons to be less horrible.

EDIT: I dun goofed.

[DeanNim]

i cant view the pictures :< 403 occurs when i click it

[Atruya]

- The infinity buff feels crazy. Longer lasting AND double the power?

Isn't the prop 40->50 the probability of the stance effect and not the duration?

[ShinkuDragon]

My thoughts:

- About time Fire Arrow got a new icon.
- Not surprised at Booster going to -2.
- Mist Eruption feels a bit too strong. The hitbox on that thing is massive and it does a lot of damage.
- The infinity buff feels crazy. Longer lasting AND double the power?
- Glacial Chain is ludicrously strong. Massive range, pulls monsters, ignores defense, 1800% damage, DoT, hits 12...and only takes 10 points.
- Priests lose 10% crit rate for 20% mastery. ME GUSTA.
- Priests also get Spell Booster. ME GUSTA. Priests taking forever to cast things always irritated me.
- Angel Ray looks badass.
- And lastly, I wish they would change summons to be less horrible.

all you are missing now is an attack worth using.

[JoeTang]

Extreme Magic's damage bonus is now the same for both jobs. It's affected by DoT, Stun, Freeze, and Darkness. They retain the +duration for F/P and Mortal Blow (?) for I/L (which is stupid).

I think they felt the added buffs to damage were already strong enough that they did not need the additional speed from more booster. Change to Mist Eruption makes it even more ridiculously strong, since it'll hit max damage on four hits instead of three now.

If they made Glacial Chains 10 points, where do the other 20 points that were removed from Ice Demon go to?

With the new Glacial Chains, the net DPS on 0% PDR are pretty close if they were to cap Mist Eruption's DoT multiplier at only one (1.5x), but they're over 9000%/s net damage with adjusted DoTs. Either way, it favours the F/P because they get more of their damage from DoT which ignores PDR.

[kremechoko]

Angel Ray:
Changed - Description (성령의 기운으로 충만한 화살을 소환하여 다수의 적에게 발사한다. 언데드나 악마 계열의 몬스터에게 큰 피해를 줄 수 있다. --> 성령의 기운으로 충만한 화살을 소환하여 전방을 향해 발사한다. 언데드나 악마 계열의 몬스터에게 큰 피해를 줄 수 있다.)
Changed - Level readout (MP #mpCon 소비, 최대 #mobCount명에게 #damage% 데미지 --> MP #mpCon 소비, 최대 #mobCount명의 적을 #damage% 데미지로 #attackCount번 공격)
Changed - Hitbox (120% --> unspecified)
Changed - range (350 --> 400)
Changed - damage (900 --> 450)
New - attackCount (2)

...
seriously...?

What's wrong with that? It's just in case some people hit the damage cap. This is one way to bypass it.

[Phoenix Wright]

Isn't the prop 40->50 the probability of the stance effect and not the duration?

I assumed it was the duration since Infinity lasts 40 seconds. I didn't even know it got a Stance effect until I looked at Spadow's blog about 5 minutes ago.

In short, I am an idiot.

[ShinkuDragon]

What's wrong with that? It's just in case some people hit the damage cap. This is one way to bypass it.

by itself, nothing is wrong, the problem is, they are still left with a very sucky attack, unless the speed of the skill is blazing fast, hitting 450% two times isn't all that great, and for most bishops out there that can't hit the damage cap, it's exactly the same as it was.

[hadriel]

I guess that's why they gave them Booster.

Hadriel

[Atruya]

Extreme Magic's damage bonus is now the same for both jobs. It's affected by DoT, Stun, Freeze, and Darkness. They retain the +duration for F/P and Mortal Blow (?) for I/L (which is stupid).

Wait a second. Does that mean F/P gets +20% damage on paralysed monsters? Coupled with the buffed Arcane Aim, this could become pretty awesome.

And does anyone know if the 20% damage on DoTs from extreme magic is additive or multiplicative?

[Phoenix Wright]

by itself, nothing is wrong, the problem is, they are still left with a very sucky attack, unless the speed of the skill is blazing fast, hitting 450% two times isn't all that great, and for most bishops out there that can't hit the damage cap, it's exactly the same as it was.

At least it's not quite as bad when you count the increased mastery/critical rate/Bishops finally getting Booster... but they're still without a solid 1v1 skill.

I wish they'd give Bishops a solid attack move. Like some kind of light beam that does damage as long as you hold down the skill key. Or something cool looking and/or interesting/unique.

[ShinkuDragon]

I guess that's why they gave them Booster.

Hadriel

yep, that's why i said that, but still, i don't think a speed increase will do much, i honestly hope i am wrong, but looking at the skill right now, low damage, no PDR ignore, a bit of extra speed doesn't really make me believe it will simply turn useful.

@wright:
yep, can't say it isn't an improvement, what am i saying is "is it enough of an improvement?"

[JoeTang]

What's wrong with that? It's just in case some people hit the damage cap. This is one way to bypass it.

It doesn't affect DPS though, whereas F/P and I/L got Mist Eruption/Glacial Chain, Elemental Amplification, and Extreme Magic to increase their damage, Bishops got nothing relevant to them alone.
The new change to Holy Focus will help a small amount, but it's still nowhere near as big a boost as everything else.

The mastery change is a ~1.11x increase in damage, compared to Extreme Magic's 1.2, it is constant, where Extreme Magic requires a debuff that will always exist.


Wait a second. Does that mean F/P gets +20% damage on paralysed monsters? Coupled with the buffed Arcane Aim, this could become pretty awesome.

And does anyone know if the 20% damage on DoTs from extreme magic is additive or multiplicative?

If it's additive, it's a small bonus comparatively, but would still be useful since fourth job skills are all massive multihits. Prior to this patch, Extreme Magic made monsters who were under DoT only for F/Ps take extra damage, and now the other status effects apply as well, and DoTs affect I/Ls since status effects could not affect bosses.

The Arcane Aim buff was meaningless except for Bishops who only get one (now two) hits, since Paralyze and Chain Lightning refreshed maxed Arcane Aim ~70% of the time. Now, Paralyze refreshes 87.5% of the time, and Chain Lightning 93.75% of the time, compared to Angel Ray which went from 30% to 75%. It does increase the scaling of the earlier levels though, which makes the skill useful earlier on.

[hadriel]

^ That reminds me of Firzen in Little Fighter 2, and Dragon Ball. And the Mage in Diablo III.

Hmm... a Hurricane-type attack for BS... that brings it to 820% DPS if max level damage is 100% (of course scale accordingly). Interesting. I didn't think of that.

Hadriel

[Satellite]

But really, did Nexon turn atheist? They are hating on Bishops. Hard.

Waiting for 6th job adv. :<

Bishop->Pope->God(God can do ANYTHING)

[yo72]

How many bosses are immune to holy/strong to it? if I rember correctly alot are, so even if bishops get a decent skill they only do 1/2 dmg. And why give a SUPPORT class an ATTACKING skill

[hadriel]

With Booster, we're looking at an overall ~20% boost in DPS, that's before TL and AYA.

^Major one would be the entire PB run, esp. Ariel and PB.

Hadriel

[JoeTang]

How many bosses are immune to holy/strong to it? if I rember correctly alot are, so even if bishops bet a decent skill they only do 1/2 dmg. And why give a SUPPORT class an ATTACKING skill

You realise that to get real exp, you have to attack right?

[Fatalzxc]

SXC ANGEL RAY SKILL EFFECT. WANTS

[ShinkuDragon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ux_FWwimraI&feature=player_embedded

doesn't seem that bad actually, but i am sad that the guy didn't spam the technique.

[hadriel]

I know - make Zombify a Dispellable status.

Heal for EXP - paltry EXP lol, unless you get 1 EXP for every 10 HP healed or something.

Hadriel

[Phoenix Wright]

yep, that's why i said that, but still, i don't think a speed increase will do much, i honestly hope i am wrong, but looking at the skill right now, low damage, no PDR ignore, a bit of extra speed doesn't really make me believe it will simply turn useful.

@wright:
yep, can't say it isn't an improvement, what am i saying is "is it enough of an improvement?"

No way. At the very least, it appears to be a solid mobbing move - unspecified hitbox makes me want to think it works like Iron Arrow in that it damages whatever it passes through, so the range must be okay, at least. Bishops just need a good single target move. Here's what I wish Nexon would do with Bishops;

Make Shining Ray/Holy Symbol have a max level of 20 (no other 3rd job Mage skills nom on that much SP). Give the new shieldy lookin' skill a max level of 10. Turn the 20 remaining points into a solid single target attack skill. Lastly, make some kind of 4th job skill (I'm thinking Angel Ray or Arcane Aim, maybe Advanced Bless) passively increase the damage output by such an attack.

[ShinkuDragon]

I know - make Zombify a Dispellable status.

Heal for EXP - paltry EXP lol, unless you get 1 EXP for every 10 HP healed or something.

Hadriel

DARK KNIGHT SELLING BISHOP LEECH, 10 M AN HOUR!
lol, just joking, but if it worked like that, i can go over 25k HP every 6~seconds, heavy washers even more.

@wright:
video is up, gotten from basil btw, tell me your opinion on it.

[hadriel]

Which does make me wonder - what's the current EXP rate for healing?

Hadriel

[yo72]

You realise that to get real exp, you have to attack right?

Cuz thats how people always get exp right......you can leech just fine. Why do people pms about bishops, just use them as they are designed.....as bossing mules.

[Shidoshi]

Even losing our -3 booster I still think we are pretty strong. With infinity back to 10% every 4 seconds we have back one of our great damage amplifiers.
Not to mention Mist Explosion / Glacial Chain now are both badass (though Mist Explosion is still so much more broken with the way you can multiply it by 1.5 several times).

I'm generally happy with this patch and bishops got something for them too (albeit not enough imo), booster and mastery are a good start.

[Atruya]

(though Mist Explosion is still so much more broken with the way you can multiply it by 1.5 several times).

So if you get 6 DoTs on a monster and use Mist Explosion, what kind of multiplyer would you get?
1+(0.5×4) = 3
1.5^4 = 5.0625
Or just (720% + 50%×4) × 4 hits?

[Shidoshi]

With the realistic ones we have: paralyze, poison breath, fire demon, big bang, poison mist and meteor (The skill says the effect can stack up to 5 times so that's the maximum already).

720%*(1.5^5)*4 = 21870%
Though I don't know if using meteor there would be beneficial (and you can't use it every 10s either).

So more like:
720%*(1.5^4)*4 = 14580%


I confirmed the multiplier works like that by some numbers taken from two videos posted.

[JoeTang]

With the realistic ones we have: paralyze, poison breath, fire demon, big bang, poison mist and meteor (The skill says the effect can stack up to 5 times so that's the maximum already).

720%*(1.5^5)*4 = 21870%
Though I don't know if using meteor there would be beneficial (and you can't use it every 10s either).

So more like:
720%*(1.5^4)*4 = 14580%


I confirmed the multiplier works like that by some numbers taken from two videos posted.

Using Meteor would be beneficial if it was specifically to make you do that much more damage, but if you can consider other sources of DoT, at least one more will always exist on the boss in a party scenario, whether it be another F/P, an I/L, or Venom.

[Atruya]

Damn, that is pretty overpowered...

So if you have 5 DoTs on it will count 4 bonuses? Or as 3?

Regardless, it's a semi-spammable ultimate, although it requires some work setting it up. The longer DoT times certainly help.

[Shidoshi]

Damn, that is pretty overpowered...

So if you have 5 DoTs on it will count 4 bonuses? Or as 3?

Regardless, it's a semi-spammable ultimate, although it requires some work setting it up. The longer DoT times certainly help.

The thing with the "setting up" is that almost all those skills would be beneficial to use for your DPS anyway, but with Mist Explosion they just become even better.

[Duelman]

OMG thank you nexon for at least compromising with AR for me!

Ha and the last thread people were all over me for saying AR needed a buff. :P

Mob count goes from 4-->5 along with the 2 hits per mob and spellbooster/more mastery? YES PLEASE!



Cuz thats how people always get exp right......you can leech just fine. Why do people pms about bishops, just use them as they are designed.....as bossing mules.
Actually if you "use it as designed", they were designed as the ultimate training class until big bang. By which definition were you referring too?

You must forget that bishops need to train too, these were some huge usability buffs.

[PeePeeAyeDeeKay]

My thoughts:

- Glacial Chain is ludicrously strong. Massive range, pulls monsters, ignores defense, 1800% damage, DoT, hits 12...and only takes 10 points.


I'm pretty sure that "Changed - Master Level (unspecified --> 10)" means it's capped at level 10 until you use a mastery book like most other 4th job skills..

[Abysseon]

Lol, so now bishop's angel ray looks like hurricane, they fixed I/L's Extreme Magic, and it looks like they made glacial chain worth maxing?! :D


Also, guess Mist Eruption wasn't broken enough...

[yo72]

Actually if you "use it as designed", they were designed as the ultimate training class until big bang. By which definition were you referring too?

You must forget that bishops need to train too, these were some huge usability buffs.
Bishops only exsist as buff mules, and to make bossing slightly easier that is their design

[Yorckie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ux_FWwimraI&feature=player_embedded

doesn't seem that bad actually, but i am sad that the guy didn't spam the technique.

Yes! I'm almost completely happy with my job now!
All I'm asking for is even a passive damage boost or a passive/active party support regarding dispelling and debuffs.

[Abysseon]

New Mist Eruption... O.O:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0MXp1loGo8

New Glacial Chains:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4B-lOnNugw

Damage can't compare to Eruption but its still a lot better than before.

[Duelman]

Bishops only exsist as buff mules, and to make bossing slightly easier that is their design

Tell that to the umpteenillion people that used to complain about being KS'ed by bishops cause they were so powerful at training?

They weren't designed as a pure support class. If they were a pure support class they wouldn't have attack skills really at all.
It was big bang that destined the bishop to a party instead of training solo, and even that is temporary obviously, or they wouldn't
be buffing any attack skills in the jump update.

[PeePeeAyeDeeKay]

New Mist Eruption... O.O:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0MXp1loGo8

O.O.. just under 4m Mist Eruption damage with only 4 active DoTs... Infinity isn't even on..

[yo72]

Tell that to the umpteenillion people that used to complain about being KS'ed by bishops cause they were so powerful at training?

They weren't designed as a pure support class. If they were a pure support class they wouldn't have attack skills really at all.
It was big bang that destined the bishop to a party instead of training solo, and even that is temporary obviously, or they wouldn't
be buffing any attack skills in the jump update.

Don't bring up KSing, cuz I can talk about it for days. Well obviously bishops need attacks, but when they have as many buffs for other classes as attacks. THEY ARE MEANT TO SUPPORT

[Malthe]

Bishops only exsist as buff mules, and to make bossing slightly easier that is their design

No, that is your opinion.
Support just doesnt work in a game like maplestory. So just no.

Heal -> pots replace that.
Dispel -> all cure pots.
Seduce/Zombify -> Bishop can't help you

I'm all for implementing things or changing bishops so that they could be a supporting class, but as things are right now, support doesnt work in this game.

[yo72]

No, that is your opinion.
Support just doesnt work in a game like maplestory. So just no.

Heal -> pots replace that.
Dispel -> all cure pots.
Seduce/Zombify -> Bishop can't help you

I'm all for implementing things or changing bishops so that they could be a supporting class, but as things are right now, support doesnt work in this game.

And I would still rather have a GOOD bishop at any boss run I do. What bishops dont have in DPS, they make up in support.

[hamad138]

guys i Think Mages are becoming good balanced.


Bishops only need passive Damage Boost( Like 20%) and some more Supportive Skill

IL and FP only need booster to -3 again =)

[Malthe]

And I would still rather have a GOOD bishop at any boss run I do. What bishops dont have in DPS, they make up in support.

What support?
The heal? Pots solve that.
The dispel? All cures solve that.

Almost everything bishops have is solved with potions or items. The boss run is better off with an extra attacker in most cases.

[Miek]

Wow I'm glad I made a F/P!!!

:D

I'm pretty sure it's going to get nerfed later on though ~_~

[yo72]

What support?
The heal? Pots solve that.
The dispel? All cures solve that.

Almost everything bishops have is solved with potions or items. The boss run is better off with an extra attacker in most cases.

with a good bishop who knows wtf they are doing, the run is easier on me. Bishops still have the best party skill in game, so until that goes their dps should be that of a supporter. If you're complaining about low dps then quit nobody is forcing you onto ur bishop to boss, make a nl or a mech.

[Malthe]

with a good bishop who knows wtf they are doing, the run is easier on me. Bishops still have the best party skill in game, so until that goes their dps should be that of a supporter. If you're complaining about low dps then quit nobody is forcing you onto ur bishop to boss, make a nl or a mech.

Did i complain about DPS? No.
I even wrote "I'm all for implementing things or changing bishops so that they could be a supporting class, but as things are right now, support doesnt work in this game."
But ok, the run is easier on you, i suppose if you sometimes forget to pot or forget to use all cures, it's easier.
But if you can remember to do those things yourself bishops really have no point.
And the best party skill? Only good party skill they have is HS, that doesnt help you kill the boss, it helps you level.
Bless was improved but still not really needed.

[Shidoshi]

To add on the usefulness of Bishops on boss runs: healing the seduced people (or ressurrecting them).

Even if they are quite useful on boss runs that doesn't mean they shouldn't have a bit more firepower at least to let them train alone when they want and kill some bosses solo.

[yo72]

Did i complain about DPS? No.
I even wrote "I'm all for implementing things or changing bishops so that they could be a supporting class, but as things are right now, support doesnt work in this game."
But ok, the run is easier on you, i suppose if you sometimes forget to pot or forget to use all cures, it's easier.
But if you can remember to do those things yourself bishops really have no point.
And the best party skill? Only good party skill they have is HS, that doesnt help you kill the boss, it helps you level.
Bless was improved but still not really needed.

Ur original point was support doesn't work in ms, when in fact a bishop gets chosen just for 1 support skill. And for some info, I don't forget to pot or use all cures, a GOOD bishop can dispell you just as fast as u can use an all cure.

[Malthe]

Ur original point was support doesn't work in ms, when in fact a bishop gets chosen just for 1 support skill.
Which?
And my point is still that support doesnt work in maplestory as things are right now.

And for some info, I don't forget to pot or use all cures, a GOOD bishop can dispell you just as fast as u can use an all cure.
Sure, and you can use all cures just as fast as he can dispel and then you can have an extra attacker and kill the boss that much faster.

[JoeTang]

Holy Symbol is not a support skill.

[yo72]

This is just a revolving door, I find bishops better than attackers. While you find no use at all.

Holy Symbol is not a support skill. how not? its the best skill in the game

[Malthe]

This is just a revolving door, I find bishops better than attackers. While you find no use at all.
No i see the use for bishops. But attackers are better as long as what bishops provide can be replaced by items.

how not? its the best skill in the game
For exp, nothing else. It does not help you kill in any way, it does not support in the killing process.

[Dusk]

Party buffs are not support skills.

[Hanabira.Kage]

Why don't we just step away from discussing support skills for now, and focus on the matter at hand; the new skills?

[Dusk]

Why don't we just step away from discussing support skills for now, and focus on the matter at hand; the new skills?

They're not very interesting but they fix a lot of issues with Archmages; Bishops are still terrible, which is why they are being discussed.

[donovan]

Glacial Chain's animation makes little sense now, something that strong is not going to grab anything, and won't be used as a bossing skill, biggest gripe left. Other than us still having Magic Bolt and Seal.

[Shidoshi]

Why don't we just step away from discussing support skills for now, and focus on the matter at hand; the new skills?

Rebalancing of the mage classes is completely related.

Support skills of a Bishop:
-Heal: useful for seduce, pot lock, pot delay.
-Advanced Bless: plays a bit of the part of HB (specially useful for low-HP classes), though survivability post-BB is not that hard to achieve; helps with avoid (not that significant on BB, don't know the formula post-Chaos); other buffs are nice but nothing special.
-Shield Thing: blocking 10 hits can be useful to save some players from death or help classes without stance, can be useless if the no-delay misses are plentiful.
-MW: useful but everyone has it.
-Ressurrection: Wheels can replace it, but it's still useful as it doesn't change seduce order.
-Dispell: can be replaced by all-cures but it's nice when you are pot-locked/seduced or if the bishop knows when you'll have a status and can dispell before you potion.

Again, they are useful when the boss run is a hard one, post-BB that would be C-Zak, C-HT and PB (dunno about Van Leon, haven't heard much about him).
When most of the bosses the normal people do don't require a Bishop to be defeated a supporting class is not of much help. Most people will never do a cHT, cZak or PB.
They need to be useful outside those bosses as well, not just an HS mule.

[hadriel]

Most people will never do a cHT, cZak or PB.

Is that true? As in, I don't know the bossing and squad culture in GMS. How's it like in the various worlds?

Hadriel

[iamflip]

Herp a derp. What the hell were they thinking of nerfing Summon Dragon, Holy Focus, and Big Bang? Angel Ray though... looks freaking insane. I wanna know how much of a hitbox it has now. O.O

Also, going with Shidoshi's point, it's not like you can do Chaos boss (or PB) runs daily. These are tough bosses which require investment... and there isn't the luxury to do these bosses often nor have the right people for them all the time. While for us Bishops, it's worth going into these runs to help people... IT'S THE ONLY RUNS THAT WE CAN BE THE MOST HELPFUL. Apparently. And we can't even do them often.

So what's left for us? Nada, unless we get some improvements in gaining EXP. :/

[Malthe]

Herp a derp. What the hell were they thinking of nerfing Summon Dragon

Summon dragon wasn't nerfed. It was replaced with booster.

[Panacea]

Cool new AR animation is cool.

And I never expected getting booster.

[Abysseon]

Glacial Chain's animation makes little sense now, something that strong is not going to grab anything, and won't be used as a bossing skill, biggest gripe left. Other than us still having Magic Bolt and Seal.

I wonder why they increased the mob count to 12 when Chain Lightning still hits 5...

Also, what's wrong with GC's animation?

My only concerns is the lack of a 'chain' effect similar to Chain Lightning and the damage compared to Mist Eruption's 1.5x boost for each DoT.

[iamflip]

Summon dragon wasn't nerfed. It was replaced with booster.

Oh.

Don't know if want then. Then again, Summon Dragon wasn't all that useful for me while I was a Priest, so meh.

Also, whoever thought that Bishops should only be used as buff mules should be somewhat right yet slapped and kicked and beaten at the same time. :|

[Kalemora]

Spell Booster:
Changed - Description (MP를 소비하여 일정시간 동안 마법 공격속도를 2단계 상승시킨다.\n필요 스킬 : #c엘리멘탈 엠플리피케이션 3레벨 이상# --> MP를 소비하여 일정시간 동안 마법 공격속도를 2단계 상승시킨다.\n필요 스킬 : #c엘리먼트 엠플리피케이션 3레벨 이상#)
Changed - x (-3 --> -2)
Thought this would happen. :f3:

At least they restored the 10% bonus to Infinity.

[Panacea]

Is that true? As in, I don't know the bossing and squad culture in GMS. How's it like in the various worlds?

Hadriel

It's true for cHT and PB, whereas cZak is a little more common. But yes, overall Shidoshi's right. PB isn't killed a lot, mainly because preparing for it takes a while. Though if your group is strong, it's still do-able even without a Bishop.

cHT, however, is a different story. Combine the excessive stun, zombify, and seduce and you have yourself a death trap. I would, hands down, say that cHT is extremely more challenging than PB.

And the only thing that concerns me at cZak is the dispel at arms, and then zombify during the bodies. Currently, zombify has no animation and so unless I test Heal first, I'm in constant paranoia.

[Abysseon]

Thought this would happen. :f3:

At least they restored the 10% bonus to Infinity.

Why would they lower it? :(

Clip of glacial chains at pap:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDLWetfEAwM

Total time was 2:37.

The move now seems to be a stronger version of chain lightning with a cooldown.

I would like for them to increase GC's damage capabilities but at least its better than the previous version.

[DarkAbyzz54]

And the only thing that concerns me at cZak is the dispel at arms, and then zombify during the bodies. Currently, zombify has no animation and so unless I test Heal first, I'm in constant paranoia.

Zombify's animation was restored a while back, so it appears again. Although there might be an issue with Zombify taking effect before the animation and warning appears.

[Katforks]

Priests lose summon dragon but get spell booster. That's a cool twist.
YES X FOREVER FINALLY

I realize this is just barely anything in terms of making bishops not suck but Booster makes me SO HAPPY <3
and that AR animation omgwant.

[Chilly]

They addressed the L/I Extreme Magic's aforementioned bossing problems. Acceptable, but did F/Ps really get a 2nd 20% from Stun?
Alone the previous would have been a meh, not that big of a deal for me but then I saw they made MistE stronger and by stronger, I didn't mean the overall % boost, that's rather insignificant when you throw in a fourth hit. This multiplication system surely cannot be intended especially after that Leviathan video I saw and JoeTang's lovely maths, something must change...
Booster being knocked back down to -2 was not unexpected, but not desired either, sad fais.
Infinity back to 10% was also expected but 50% Stance is still mediocre for only being active during the one minute.

GC: Well, they followed (partly) what I wanted for GC and turned it into Snipe. However, clearly, not far enough and too far at the same time. Why do I need to hit 12 monsters? Where do 12 monsters exist in a row? Eight was questionable as it was and now twelve...I'd be fine with turning it into an actual Snipe and have it only hit one or some smallish number of monsters. Of course the previous is dependent on a power boost, like, let's say Snipe, maybe better though :excellent:.

They both were mentioned in this and other threads and I now follow their philosophies:
1. Any monster mob manipulation skill effect is useful for any class that didn't have it before
2. Anything I'll likely be hitting with GC to utilize this effect will likely be dead after my retraction pulls out their heart

If I were to make a decision now, a 5 second cooldown negates the utility of a Monster Magnet effect, take it out, throw up some more percents in that.

And now my chiding of F/P Super Mastery Books has come back full circle, not that I'm unhappy to need to put points in GC though...

I think this was obvious in the math since we have the 80ish and 90ish percents for Para and CL regarding single cast Arcane Aim power boost, but for clarification, a single strike from either attack could raise the 8% multiple times, up to 24% and 32% respectively?

[Sarah]

Fucking cool down on chains makes it useless to me. I hate god damn cooldowns in maple.

[Teppi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ux_FWwimraI&feature=player_embedded

doesn't seem that bad actually, but i am sad that the guy didn't spam the technique.

isn't that hurricane animation?
@imo about bishop dps: bishop has always been a supported class from job 2-3 or even in other games. i mean theoretically a bishop would never "fight" but either give support and "blessings" to other to fight. and if nexon would give them an insane dps skill, it would make arch mages obsolete again because insane attack with a whole bunch of support? really?

[Dusk]

isn't that hurricane animation?
@imo about bishop dps: bishop has always been a supported class from job 2-3 or even in other games. i mean theoretically a bishop would never "fight" but either give support and "blessings" to other to fight. and if nexon would give them an insane dps skill, it would make arch mages obsolete again because insane attack with a whole bunch of support? really?

What support?

[Teppi]

What support?

bless, adv bless, hs, the new shield,res, dispel, invincible, heal
with these support, pretty much all stats are being raised, so it's a well-rounded support. imo it'll be better if nexon gives them more support skills that stacks with other class's support skills/ pots rather than making them an attacker. priests pre-4th job was fine being a support class.
and to say that u need to attack to "get" exp doesn't really work anymore since nexon changed the ratio back to 6:4. to top it off hs gives 150% exp even solo now so the net exp gain is pretty even. i'd rather have nexon make hs so that the exp gain of leeching while in party of the bishop is slightly higher than the the "leeching exp" of others in party but lower than the "killing exp"
and if nexon really makes bishop an attacking class, might as well change the job name to "monk" (rip from ragnarok) because "bishops" never really fight

[Malthe]

bless, adv bless, hs, the new shield,res, dispel, invincible, heal
How is that support?
Not going to dwell into this argument again anyway, just wondering how you could possibly classify this skill as support.

[Teppi]

How is that support?
Not going to dwell into this argument again anyway, just wondering how you could possibly classify this skill as support.

it is a good self-support skill i mean. being able to being taken an amount of damage away is really useful. before jump it is just touch damage but i believe after jump it works for magic dmg too?
changes that i prefer:
bishops - all buffs stacks with other job's buffs and pots
make invincible a party skill
new skill that gives the bishop a boost in effect in all buffs
more useful support skills (like a passive status inflicting skill: 30% chance of being able to inflict a status on monsters like darkness, dot, w.e)

[Shidoshi]

isn't that hurricane animation?
@imo about bishop dps: bishop has always been a supported class from job 2-3 or even in other games. i mean theoretically a bishop would never "fight" but either give support and "blessings" to other to fight. and if nexon would give them an insane dps skill, it would make arch mages obsolete again because insane attack with a whole bunch of support? really?

The point is not to make Bishops as strong as AMs in DPS. They just shouldn't be 3-4 times weaker than them.

[Abysseon]

Part 2 and probably the last update before the patch goes live in the public server on the 21st.

Well, that sucks.

Hope there's another update before then that addresses the remaining issues with Glacial Chains, Infinity's 50% stance when it can be dispelled/has a cooldown, and magic guard being dispelled.

[SwordStaker]

The point is not to make Bishops as strong as AMs in DPS. They just shouldn't be 3-4 times weaker than them.
I don't think Bishops should be close on par with them either.They were made to be "support". You can use support as loosely as you want but you can't get around the fact they were and never will be meant to deal damage. Sure, training is an exception which is why they should have SOME attacking skills, but when you look at the metagame theres no point for a bishop to attack at major league bosses.Plus in a way Evans have sort have taken some support out of bishops with soul stone resurrecting 5,the 20% avoid and acc buff, plus the super defenses from blessing of the onyx.

[Satellite]

Thing is that support class is major fail in the MS we have today. It worked 3 years ago, but things have changed (such as the party formula and LHC was nerfed too).

They need to motivate people to continue/make Bishops, because OTHER CLASSES need all those buffs for Bosses, Monster Park etc.

[Netto]

The point is not to make Bishops as strong as AMs in DPS. They just shouldn't be 3-4 times weaker than them.

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/5272/1225551025144.jpg (http://img717.imageshack.us/i/1225551025144.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

FINALLY SOMEONE TAKES THE EXACT WORDS OUT OF MY MOUTH!

And as for self-support.....I cannot face palm harder...

EVERY class has a self support class (excluding Beginners-type). And of course, wasn't it already mentioned that Holy Symbol isn't a support skill?....

[Dusk]

bless, adv bless, hs, the new shield,res, dispel, invincible, heal
with these support, pretty much all stats are being raised, so it's a well-rounded support. imo it'll be better if nexon gives them more support skills that stacks with other class's support skills/ pots rather than making them an attacker. priests pre-4th job was fine being a support class.
and to say that u need to attack to "get" exp doesn't really work anymore since nexon changed the ratio back to 6:4. to top it off hs gives 150% exp even solo now so the net exp gain is pretty even. i'd rather have nexon make hs so that the exp gain of leeching while in party of the bishop is slightly higher than the the "leeching exp" of others in party but lower than the "killing exp"

Before I start, let's look at what players spend most of their time doing. Nexon's intention is obviously to get everyone to train by grouping and running their new faceroll dungeons that they call Monster Park. So it's half-viable for a class that needs to group to exist. So what can that class actually do for a party?

Adv Bless: Minor party buff, comparable to Combat Orders or Sharp Eyes
Holy Symbol: party buff. It's the only one that buffs EXP instead of survivability or damage. I'll get back to this later.
Heal: Rendered almost entirely useless by pots even for the Bishop, remedied only by rare situations where there is a potion cd/Seduce and no Zombify. Also scales HORRIBLY.
Holy Magic Shell: What makes you think this skill will be much different than Heal?
Dispel: Same thing as Heal. Come on. The only reason these skills are wanted at all is because Nexon puts situations in certain boss battles just to say "hey look, we didn't forget about Bishops!" They're complete trash everywhere else. All you do with Dispel is save Allcures. That's hardly support.
Res: I almost want to say "same thing as Heal" for this too, except Wheels cost NX and Res is actually superior to Wheels. Still.
Invincible is a self-buff, I think you're confusing it with something else.

There are so many problems with a real support class existing in Maple. Going back to HS. EXP is good, but what do you need it for? Bishop damage doesn't even compare with other classes and your skills do not SCALE at all. There isn't much a level 200 Bishop in really good gear can do in terms of support that my level 90 Priest with crappy gear couldn't do if I simply leveled it to 125 or so and put some points into the relevant skills. EXP is only relevant if you view getting level 200 as the end goal of the game without any focus on actually having content to enjoy, and even then, there's no need for a Bishop if you have an extra computer handy and park a priest with maxed HS around.

All the classes that are currently viewed as "on par" have immense solo capability. This is because the game does not make partying very useful. Seriously, in the days where Zakum and then Horntail where the Big Bads, you actually needed a big group of decently geared people to take the down. Nowadays, a big group of decently geared people doesn't hold a candle to one guy with 20 grand worth of questionably legit gear hitting millions of damage per hit. No one cares about partying. The game just doesn't support it.

There's also the fact that there's like 20-something classes in the game and only one of them has any skills like a Bishop. This means if they design content that requires a Bishop for anything, they have to ensure that Bishops are by far the most overpopulated class in the game. Which is helped by the extremely long ultimate-spamming phase of the game, but is not a very good model. If they want to make a support class, they need to add more than one.

TLDR This game isn't going to be fixable to where you can actually have different party roles unless they completely scrap the potion system, make classes more self-sufficient without them, add more support classes, make bosses less fake-hard, allow things other than damage to scale with gear, and I could go on with this list of ways in which MapleStory is a broken game. I'm of the opinion that they should just make every class do good damage with different playstyles and change things up every now and then and they can continue milking this game that way until it runs dry.

TL MapleStory is a broken game. Get some NX today!

P.S. AGGGH THERE IS NO 8:2 AND 6:4 PARTY RATIO
currently in GMS: 60% exp distributed by damage, 40% exp distributed by level
old model: 20% exp distributed by damage, 80% exp distributed by level
It's only 8:2 and 6:4 IF YOU'RE IN A PARTY OF TWO AND BOTH OF YOU ARE THE EXACT SAME LEVEL

[Katforks]

Well, that sucks.

Hope there's another update before then that addresses the remaining issues with Glacial Chains, Infinity's 50% stance when it can be dispelled/has a cooldown, and magic guard being dispelled.
Shit. If this is it for changes then there goes all the motivation I have. Guess I need to find another class to make my main then. .__.

[Bribery]

Am I the only one that thinks Glacial Chains is fine now? It does 1800% every 5 seconds, compared to Mist Explosion which does 2880% in 10 seconds (though that doesn't count the overpowered DOT damage boost :f3:). The only thing I would change is remove the Magnet effect since that could be irritating at mobile bosses.

Bishops still need a lot of work but they're heading in the right direction. IMO, Evans are what Bishops should be on par with. Not quite as strong as Arch Mages but they have some useful buffs to make up for the difference. A pure support class cannot work in this game.

Where do Bishops currently stand in terms of DPS with Arch Mages after these boosts?

Now Magician's 4th job skills are all useful. Which will be the skill that people choose not to max?

[Malthe]

it is a good self-support skill i mean.
By that definition, almost ALL skill are support skills.
They all help you out somehow o_o

[MariaColette]

Why does Angel Ray look like Hurricane now (it is pretty though)? D:

[cronnoponno]

Before Maplestory became godstory, and survivability was hard to attain because the potions at the time sucked, I really liked clerics. Why? I couldn't afford good pots, and spamming Unagi 7 times per hit was a serious waste of time for my dps, however when I had a priest with me to spam heal, I didn't have to worry about getting damaged faster than I could pot.

Now, however, power elixir's are extremely easy to get, and even then I could get potions that make most bosses pose little threat to me. However, I still like bishops for holy symbol, because sometimes bosses give me good EXP, and to add HS on top of good EXP boosts is something I really like.

My first character was an I/L, and I was really sick of Bishops stealing my spotlight in just about everything I could do, but they got massively screwed over. Now people can just nxhoar and get pets to autopot for them, and dispel can't even dispel the worst status effects in the game. On top of this, Bishop Hater's(I consider myself a bishop hater) are continuing to basically tell them ''get back in the kitchen'', even when their kitchen role has been robbed from them. I do not agree that Bishops need a better 1vs1 skill, I think they should have to rely on the support of an attacker, while they themselves serve as support for that attacker. So instead of giving them crappy solo skills that are mediocre compared to other classes, they need to make their support skills much more useful, starting with dispel being able to remove Zombify/Seduce. I'm sure they're creative enough to make bosses challenging without just saying ''GIVE THE BOSS 100BILL HP AND MAKE IT SPAm SEDUCE LOLOLOLOl'', they did it with Astaroth..

They also need to change the EXP ratio, does anyone really even care if someone leeches anymore? This is post-BB, leveling isn't even worth bragging over any more. The leech ratio was originally made to prevent people from losing their sense of perfection for spending more time on this game, right? The ratio is not needed, I miss the good old days where people actively searched for priests because they were a serious benefit to the party, but the priest got an equal chance at getting good EXP. My friends always told me they would party with a DK at himes, even if their level was really inferior because the DK had use for them. Now when I join party's, I hear ''Don't use Bless noob bishop'', ''HS NOOB'', and they're fine with the bishop camping on the ladder, because the attacker's get more EXP.

[Worthyness]

As long as i can get the same amount of experience as other attacking classes, i'm happy with being a bishop. If i can get 30% an hour while attacking classes get 40% an hour, even that would be fine. When bishops get 10% an hour while attacking classes get 40%, there's a significant non-advantage for bishops. It'll basically turn them into how they leveled in 3rd job back in the day: leeching from the party.

Why bother partying with people when you get the same crappy experience per hour just training by yourself? AND you can get the full use of your buffs just the same without the party. Granted they don't have to be on par with Heroes or some other class, but at least make it so that at LHC, in the time a hero kills 3 mobs, at least make it so that the bishop is able to kill 1/2 of another mob's HP (or more) instead of not even denting the HP. I mean really, in the time it took 2 level 12x bowmaster/shadower to kill 4 mobs, i, a 15x bishop, had managed to take away maybe 1/16th of the HP bar. At that point, the party comes in and kills that mob (because i don't kill it fast enough to help circulate the map) resulting in the me getting maybe 3k more exp than a mob i would have leeched anyway. yay. It really made no difference if i was going to buff on the rope or walk around.

What the changes should encourage is not buff muling on a rope, but rather how parties are supposed to be, when each class can help contribute damage to boost their experience gain. Healing/dispelling/ etc. may be "mandatory" at bosses, but if you're training, why shouldn't they be able to contribute more than just a few buffs? Because they're just for the buffs? Because they should "HEAL PLZZZZZ11!!!1111!" or "ZOMG!!!1! Y u no hs??@1!? " and "WTF? BUFF NAO NAOANOANAONAONAONAONOANOA!1!!!11!" ? To encourage bishops to continue to play the class (beside for the love of the class), there should be some upside to circulating the map. If all you get is a measly 100k extra exp every 30 minutes, what's to encourage me to do so, when i could just as easily just sit on a rope?

[Shidoshi]

A way to fix Bishop's training without making them better than AMs at bosses would be to give them (gulp) Genesis without a cooldown.

[cronnoponno]

I actually didn't like the whole ''ultimate spam'' feature of mages, specifically bishops. It made them always train solo, it was ''leech to 4th job, train solo spamming genesis till level 200'. Seems like it'd just reverse the situation, I'd rather see them get unique skills and new animations that Maple has never seen before. I don't want them to do what they did to shadower's (DUR LETS GIVE THEM FLASH JUMP AND SHADOW PARTNER AND NOT MAKE IT LOOK UNIQUE, CLASS FIXED). I want them to really try to fix bishops.


(I AM NOT INSULTiNG SHADOWERS OR CONSIDERING THEM LOW TIER, FLASH JUMP AND SP ARE COOLKAT, I WAS ONLY SAYING THEY NEEDED A MORE UNIQUE VERSION FROM NL'S, IF DUAL BLADES GET A UNIQUE FJ THEN SO SHOULD SHADS)

[Baklava]

Look, glacial chain doesn't suck anymore! :D

[Netto]

A way to fix Bishop's training without making them better than AMs at bosses would be to give them (gulp) Genesis without a cooldown.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTpheZFzgJj4xP-h9VAZhilYoj8ta0kCpVDW-gIIpv1T_DYuU1Xdg

While I would say it'd be interesting to see that, I don't think it'd help much. Genesis is far too slow for it to be of any use. AR completely destroys it.



I actually didn't like the whole ''ultimate spam'' feature of mages, specifically bishops. It made them always train solo, it was ''leech to 4th job, train solo spamming genesis till level 200'. Seems like it'd just reverse the situation, I'd rather see them get unique skills and new animations that Maple has never seen before. I don't want them to do what they did to shadower's (DUR LETS GIVE THEM FLASH JUMP AND SHADOW PARTNER AND NOT MAKE IT LOOK UNIQUE, CLASS FIXED). I want them to really try to fix bishops.

No Bishop in their right mind would have solo'd up until level 200. I sure as hell wouldn't have. Only if I didnt find someone, yes. But no way would I solo'd without exhausting all possible party members o_o

[VirgilDiablo]

Bishops only exsist as buff mules, and to make bossing slightly easier that is their design

the support class-only argument is invalid because why would there only be ONE support class in the entire game?

[cronnoponno]

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTpheZFzgJj4xP-h9VAZhilYoj8ta0kCpVDW-gIIpv1T_DYuU1Xdg

While I would say it'd be interesting to see that, I don't think it'd help much. Genesis is far too slow for it to be of any use. AR completely destroys it.




No Bishop in their right mind would have solo'd up until level 200. I sure as hell wouldn't have. Only if I didnt find someone, yes. But no way would I solo o_o

Really? Didn't they just need parties for better HS, and maybe a HB so they can use Genesis a few more times without potting? The only other alternative I've seen to party training(this was when skele's were godly) were to party other bishops, one at the top, one at the bottom.

[Netto]

Really? Didn't they just need parties for better HS, and maybe a HB so they can use Genesis a few more times without potting? The only other alternative I've seen to party training(this was when skele's were godly) were to party other bishops, one at the top, one at the bottom.

Exactly this. Don't forget to add in SE to this :P

I loved SE. A lot.

If you meant about Gen spam at Skele, sure, that'd work. But just in certain maps. I definitely don't want to spam Genesis in, say, Dark Ereve or LHC.

[IllegallySane]

Fucking cool down on chains makes it useless to me. I hate god damn cooldowns in maple.

It's only 5 seconds. That's barely a cooldown at all, not to mention it not only grabs more mobs with more power but has a longer reach too.

[Shidoshi]

It's only 5 seconds. That's barely a cooldown at all, not to mention it not only grabs more mobs with more power but has a longer reach too.

And gives the DoT that increases your damage by 20%

Forgot to comment on Extreme Magic:
The fix they used, as much as it brings balance between the two mages (sort of, mortal blow pales in comparison to added DoT time), having the skill give +20% with the same conditions to both mages seems to me like just laziness of creating something different for each class.

[ThaKakarot]

Meh.

Still don't like Glacialchain at all.
lolcooldowns

f/p are op.

I still want an undispellable magic gaurd.

is all

[byakugan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ALwKeSEYs


Concerning the Bishop changes, I hope Nexon realizes they still have a lot to do. I would like to see a few changes, for example:
-A new animation for Angel's ray (FOR GODS SAKE CAN'T ANYONE ELSE SEE IT LOOKS AS GOOD AS AN ARCHER SHOOTING A SOUL ARROW WITH THE CTR KEY?, It would make a lot more sense if it looked like evan's magic flare).
-Make doom work on bosses with a big cooldown, (work for 40 seconds every 10 mins?),
-Making HS grant the priest/Bishop 200% exp bonus above the 150% it gives to everyone else. (as someone above said)
-Increase advanced bless buffs (only a few points above regular bless wont make it any indispensable unless both bless and advanced bless can stack together)
-Maybe compensating the lack of DoT in Holy Big bang by taking out the charge up.


Just make Glacial Chain into a copy of Dark Shock as I suggested. They don't even need to tweak the animation (although it would look better if it just moved forward without returning), just change its's values to do 1000% x 2 dmg on 6 monsters with a 15 seconds cooldown time. Or make it just 1000% dmg + adding a snow attribute even on bosses for activating Extreme magic (also reducing defense as someone said).

Not exactly what I suggested but still pretty close. They made both Glacial Chain and Mist Eruption too strong though, I was actually expecting a nerf for ME, not a buff. On the other hand I suppose Angel ray now is a skill similar to piercing, but spamable. It still needs more damage though, at least 600% X 2 on 5 mobs.

Still waiting for bless to stack with advanced bless and confirmation that holy magic shell can block all status effects.

[Katforks]

Exactly this. Don't forget to add in SE to this :P

I loved SE. A lot.

If you meant about Gen spam at Skele, sure, that'd work. But just in certain maps. I definitely don't want to spam Genesis in, say, Dark Ereve or LHC.
I haven't paid attention to changed MP values for it since I dont' have points in it anymore, but I know that if you made it spammable but cost a lot people would think twice before just spamming Gen unless they had autopot [:f3:] - maybe make it take a % of the MP bar instead of a fixed amount since you can wash to make that negligible? If the mobs are hitting enough to keep you from spamming it because it costs so much then people wouldn't be able to do it and would be relying more on BB+AR. >>
I'll agree I don't want to go back to spamming it but if it's the only way I can level at a reasonable speed compared to other classes I'll have to suck it up and do it. LHC is slow as balls leeching.

[MissingLink]

Fucking cool down on chains makes it useless to me. I hate god damn cooldowns in maple.

^ This x 10.


It's only 5 seconds. That's barely a cooldown at all, not to mention it not only grabs more mobs with more power but has a longer reach too.

5 seconds is a long time when training. Efficient training at regular mobs requires that you kill a good fraction of a map before respawn, which is what? 10 seconds? Can't do much of that with a skill with a 5 second cooldown (plus whatever the casting time is).
If you were to train at high hp mobs or bosses, the skill would have to be 10 times as powerful as chain lightning to be worthwhile, since is 10 times slower.
So, yeah, useless skill for training or bossing as long as it has a 5 second cooldown.

[Takebacker]

1800% with DoT makes it the strongest mob moving skill in the f'ucking game, which is also stronger than your MAIN ATTACK. Complaining because it has a cooldown despite also activating exMagic is extremely silly.

[Dusk]

The cooldown only makes sense, otherwise you'd just spam Glacial Chain. This adds some variety, much like Dark Lightning does for BMs.

[Yorckie]

What was the point on changing Invincible's icon? They didn't change its animation... and apparently they won't.

[hadriel]

I will note that ADC doesn't always work in moving mobs, especially when the com is laggy or if someone else hits your prey. Rush is nicer anytime for that purpose.

Hadriel

[Nesso]

- Glacial Chain is now amazing. The cooldown shouldn't be an issue with Monster Park. I hate button pressing as much as the next guy, but it's hard to argue with only 5 seconds for monsters with 16m hp. I'm satisfied with the direction they took with it. I have a feeling it'll be nerfed a bit, considering it completely over shadows Blizzard. That's another thing. Are they going to do nothing with the Ultimates? Are they even still there?
- I don't know if it's been mentioned or if it's completely obvious, but AR now hitting two is an important change with bishop's crit rate and spell booster added.
- Happy about infinity, sad about spell booster, infatuated with Advanced Bless.
- F/Ps are still ridiculous.

[Teppi]

Before I start, let's look at what players spend most of their time doing. Nexon's intention is obviously to get everyone to train by grouping and running their new faceroll dungeons that they call Monster Park. So it's half-viable for a class that needs to group to exist. So what can that class actually do for a party?

Adv Bless: Minor party buff, comparable to Combat Orders or Sharp Eyes
Holy Symbol: party buff. It's the only one that buffs EXP instead of survivability or damage. I'll get back to this later.
Heal: Rendered almost entirely useless by pots even for the Bishop, remedied only by rare situations where there is a potion cd/Seduce and no Zombify. Also scales HORRIBLY.
Holy Magic Shell: What makes you think this skill will be much different than Heal?
Dispel: Same thing as Heal. Come on. The only reason these skills are wanted at all is because Nexon puts situations in certain boss battles just to say "hey look, we didn't forget about Bishops!" They're complete trash everywhere else. All you do with Dispel is save Allcures. That's hardly support.
Res: I almost want to say "same thing as Heal" for this too, except Wheels cost NX and Res is actually superior to Wheels. Still.
Invincible is a self-buff, I think you're confusing it with something else.

There are so many problems with a real support class existing in Maple. Going back to HS. EXP is good, but what do you need it for? Bishop damage doesn't even compare with other classes and your skills do not SCALE at all. There isn't much a level 200 Bishop in really good gear can do in terms of support that my level 90 Priest with crappy gear couldn't do if I simply leveled it to 125 or so and put some points into the relevant skills. EXP is only relevant if you view getting level 200 as the end goal of the game without any focus on actually having content to enjoy, and even then, there's no need for a Bishop if you have an extra computer handy and park a priest with maxed HS around.

All the classes that are currently viewed as "on par" have immense solo capability. This is because the game does not make partying very useful. Seriously, in the days where Zakum and then Horntail where the Big Bads, you actually needed a big group of decently geared people to take the down. Nowadays, a big group of decently geared people doesn't hold a candle to one guy with 20 grand worth of questionably legit gear hitting millions of damage per hit. No one cares about partying. The game just doesn't support it.

There's also the fact that there's like 20-something classes in the game and only one of them has any skills like a Bishop. This means if they design content that requires a Bishop for anything, they have to ensure that Bishops are by far the most overpopulated class in the game. Which is helped by the extremely long ultimate-spamming phase of the game, but is not a very good model. If they want to make a support class, they need to add more than one.

TLDR This game isn't going to be fixable to where you can actually have different party roles unless they completely scrap the potion system, make classes more self-sufficient without them, add more support classes, make bosses less fake-hard, allow things other than damage to scale with gear, and I could go on with this list of ways in which MapleStory is a broken game. I'm of the opinion that they should just make every class do good damage with different playstyles and change things up every now and then and they can continue milking this game that way until it runs dry.

TL MapleStory is a broken game. Get some NX today!

P.S. AGGGH THERE IS NO 8:2 AND 6:4 PARTY RATIO
currently in GMS: 60% exp distributed by damage, 40% exp distributed by level
old model: 20% exp distributed by damage, 80% exp distributed by level
It's only 8:2 and 6:4 IF YOU'RE IN A PARTY OF TWO AND BOTH OF YOU ARE THE EXACT SAME LEVEL

all of ur problems with the "support" can be cured by what i stated in the later posts before
and as for heal/dispel being replacable by pots: at bosses that takes longer time, people would prefer bishops more. the only problem with nexon and bishop now is they should give 4th job bishops more support skills that makes the difference between level 1 and level 20-30 so that (like u said) lvl 90 priests have a disadvantage over lvl 16x bishops
and if u think maple is so broken and w.e, why play and care about it anymore?

[Shidoshi]

all of ur problems with the "support" can be cured by what i stated in the later posts before
and as for heal/dispel being replacable by pots: at bosses that takes longer time, people would prefer bishops more. the only problem with nexon and bishop now is they should give 4th job bishops more support skills that makes the difference between level 1 and level 20-30 so that (like u said) lvl 90 priests have a disadvantage over lvl 16x bishops
and if u think maple is so broken and w.e, why play and care about it anymore?

Just because it's broken and not balanced doesn't mean you can't still have fun. Also, be careful when throwing that argument around, lots of people here don't really play anymore.

[Malthe]

and as for heal/dispel being replacable by pots: at bosses that takes longer time, people would prefer bishops more.
What? How does it take longer time? Adding another attacker over a bishop will kill the boss faster.


if u think maple is so broken and w.e, why play and care about it anymore?
Why are you seeing things in black and white? Maple is broken with the way things are right now. 4 second paps? How is that not pretty broken? :/

And as above said, you can still have fun with it.

[Dusk]

I don't play Maple any more, but I still think it has potential and I still know people that play, so I still have enough interest in it to post about it.

[andyandythin]

mist eruption seems a bit OP but the rest is fine.

[Green4Ever]

F/Ps get even stronger. Awesome :D

[byakugan]

Reworking the potion system wouldn't fix bishops, but It sure would help. The problem with potions isn't as big for KMS as it is for GMS. the best regular potions they got are milks while you cannot get exlirs from other source than monster and bosses, so bishops are more useful in KMS. Nexon korea should take out all cure potions while Nexon america should get rid of all the NLC potions (as well as energizers from neo city)

That'd be the simplest first step to help bishops.

[Yorckie]

Nexon america should get rid of all the NLC potions (as well as energizers from neo city)

That'd be the simplest first step to help bishops.

Hell yes! I'm extremely tired of damage hoars spamming: NO BLEZZ PLS!!
It just kills my mood, but I think that won't happend anymore with Advanced Bless.

[Takebacker]

Hell yes! I'm extremely tired of damage hoars spamming: NO BLEZZ PLS!!
It just kills my mood, but I think that won't happend anymore with Advanced Bless.

You would rather they spam "BUFFS PLSSSSSSS"?

Either way they are going to spam you over something.

[Yorckie]

You would rather they spam "BUFFS PLSSSSSSS"?

Either way they are going to spam you over something.

That's true, but I'd rather preffer them to ask me for buffs than disable/blame me for use them.

[Takebacker]

Yeah but at least now that rage will be directed towards heroes instead of bishops. At least until an easily obtainable 26+ attack potion is released with decent duration.

[Dark Link]

1800% with DoT makes it the strongest mob moving skill in the f'ucking game, which is also stronger than your MAIN ATTACK. Complaining because it has a cooldown despite also activating exMagic is extremely silly.

Ultimates 2.0 inbound.
Plus, they should just make all +Atk skills stack with +Atk pots. There's no reason not to as this point lol

[Sarah]

The cooldown only makes sense, otherwise you'd just spam Glacial Chain. This adds some variety, much like Dark Lightning does for BMs.

I never use Dark Lightning because... IT HAS A COOLDOWN! I get along on my BaM just fine switching between chains and quinstrike, I don't see why I can't do the same with my IL.

edit: to be clear, I would rather it be nerfed and have no cooldown than have it ridiculously strong WITH a cool down.

[yo72]

I never use Dark Lightning because... IT HAS A COOLDOWN! I get along on my BaM just fine switching between chains and quinstrike, I don't see why I can't do the same with my IL.

edit: to be clear, I would rather it be nerfed and have no cooldown than have it ridiculously strong WITH a cool down.

Maybe dark lightening is never used is because, its weak and unneeded.

[Takebacker]

Dark lightning isn't worth using not because it has a cooldown but because the delay is long as f'uck. GC's delay is a lot shorter i think, so it won't be unbearable or anything. You'll want the DoT anyway.

[JoeTang]

If it had no cool down, then you would either spam Chain Lightning or Glacial Chain. Not use both.

[Sarah]

If it had no cool down, then you would either spam Chain Lightning or Glacial Chain. Not use both.

>Implying you know how I play. That's a false assumption right there. I would use both, just as I used both Blizzard and CL equally in the past and have used all of my skills equally now. Anything that doesn't have a cooldown in my arsenal gets used. I can't stand cooldowns though so I don't put points into those skills (except infinity)

edit: @Sylv: no, I specifically didn't use it because it has a cooldown. It could be weak as shit but if I could use it freely I happily would.

[yo72]

>Implying you know how I play. That's a false assumption right there. I would use both, just as I used both Blizzard and CL equally in the past and have used all of my skills equally now. Anything that doesn't have a cooldown in my arsenal gets used. I can't stand cooldowns though so I don't put points into those skills (except infinity)

edit: @Sylv: no, I specifically didn't use it because it has a cooldown. It could be weak as pomegranate but if I could use it freely I happily would.
>Implying you know how to play....
Cuz ya I totally use TT and L7 on my Nl when I boss,without DoT/CDs the strongest skill gets used.

[JoeTang]

The point is, if it had no cool down and were nerfed, then it would either a) be stronger than Chain Lightning, in which case Chain Lightning would never be used, or b) be weaker than Chain Lightning, in which case it would never be used. Either case, they would be vastly inferior to F/P Magicians in damage and utility.

[Shidoshi]

>Implying you know how to play....
Cuz ya I totally use TT and L7 on my Nl when I boss,without DoT/CDs the strongest skill gets used.

Not everyone is crazy about maximum efficiency and DPS. Some people actually (gulp) have fun playing around with their skills and killing random stuff.

[Takebacker]

Not everyone is crazy about maximum efficiency and DPS. Some people actually (gulp) have fun playing around with their skills and killing random stuff.

Case and point: Mages who trained with normal skills when ultimates were spammable.

[JoeTang]

Not everyone is crazy about maximum efficiency and DPS. Some people actually (gulp) have fun playing around with their skills and killing random stuff.

Yes, let's balance the game around the 1% of the population who wants to not spam a single skill because it is better than the other spammable skill.

[Sarah]

Yes, let's balance the game around the 1% of the population who wants to not spam a single skill because it is better than the other spammable skill.

Except no one was saying that anything about rebalancing or changing it. I simply stated I won't be using it now because it's pomegranate to me. ME. ME. ME. What is so difficult to grasp about this PERSONAL FEELINGS business? Since when does everything have to be about everyone? I specifically used wording such as "I" because it wasn't meant to be about anyone else.

[Abysseon]

Except no one was saying that anything about rebalancing or changing it. I simply stated I won't be using it now because it's pomegranate to me. ME. ME. ME. What is so difficult to grasp about this PERSONAL FEELINGS business? Since when does everything have to be about everyone? I specifically used wording such as "I" because it wasn't meant to be about anyone else.

Wait...you won't use Glacial Chains just because it has a cooldown?

Even when it boosts I/L Archmage's DPM (still not comparable to F/P) considerably when using the skill between Chain Lightning spamming??

The I/L at Pap I posted previously had a time of 2:37 in this 1.2.379 update and 5:45 in the previous 1.2.378 update.

His kms chaos time was 6:53.

[hadriel]

There is a very good reason for me to use Dark Lightning (aka Sith Lightning) - It doesn't break stun (is it because it's Dark Element?).

The good thing about DL is that I can use it to kill mobs far away while starting to engage another group of mobs. Or use it as a finishing move while moving away. Because it does a good chunk of damage more than my bread-and-butter skills, and Finisher requires me to face the monsters and throw the Saw out before I can move away. That's a good amount of time I save in the long run. Reaper solves the rest of the problems for me if there are stragglers. Yes it doesn't do more damage than XBlow+Finisher, but you don't use skills just for the damage only, do you? All depends on the circumstances, and the player.

The reason why *I* think GC sucks for training now is that 1) you will almost NEVER find a 12-mob gang unless it's a single-lane monster park map, 2) even if you ignored the mob-count, you can't use it as freely as ADC which makes it lacklustre... *I* don't know if it's meant to be a bossing or a training skill, because right now it doesn't seem like either. Well... more DPS on a boss doesn't hurt, since it cost's only 10SP.

Hadriel

[yo72]

There is a very good reason for me to use Dark Lightning (aka Sith Lightning) - It doesn't break stun (is it because it's Dark Element?).

The good thing about DL is that I can use it to kill mobs far away while starting to engage another group of mobs. Or use it as a finishing move while moving away. Because it does a good chunk of damage more than my bread-and-butter skills, and Finisher requires me to face the monsters and throw the Saw out before I can move away. That's a good amount of time I save in the long run. Reaper solves the rest of the problems for me if there are stragglers. Yes it doesn't do more damage than XBlow+Finisher, but you don't use skills just for the damage only, do you? All depends on the circumstances, and the player.

Hadriel

The time used using DL you could have teled over killed the monster and still have enough time to walk to another set of mobs

[hadriel]

That's going the wrong direction. And I don't like to kiss monsters.

I'd actually be very happy if they made DL an 8/10-mob hitting skill. The way people talk about it... makes it seem as if it's completely useless. I don't feel so at least.

Hadriel

[Panacea]

The time used using DL you could have teled over killed the monster and still have enough time to walk to another set of mobs

Funny, because you're arguing over someone's play style.

You have your way of playing, they have theirs. Leave it.

[hadriel]

I won't really be surprised if a 3rd tweak comes up. For good and/or for bad.

And I forgot... GC makes BB(I/L) look kind of... hmm... odd.

Hadriel

[LegendGospel]

Alright, gee, so much ignorance. Here's the thing on Bishops being a "support class", and the guy saying we should just leech and support:

Being a support class in Maple has never fucking worked. I used to train my Priest (pre-BB) partying on Himes with a DK or another attack job... they leveled much faster than I did. When we complained about it back then, people would just say "oh, but you're not attacking, you're just supporting, stop bitching about it". Oh sure, I'm not worth the exp, right? Because all I do is teleport all around the map gathering Hime mobs, while the DK stayed in a corner chatting with guildmates, attack for 5 seconds to kill the mob, and continue chatting. The attacker deserves all the exp and supporters deserve to level slower.

Such a stupid idea.

At least we became the fastest levelers in 4th job to compensate, but that changed with BB, so we're now basically forever Priests, in terms of sucking. Do you think changing the rates back to 6:4 will help? Certainly it won't, it didn't help pre-BB, and it wont' help post-Jump. Because in Maple Story, attackers get all the experience, and leechers get the low end.

Now, people already mentioned about our skills...

Heal - Useful in pot cooldown bosses and when people get seduced, that's it. Most 4th jobbers carry hundreds of Power Elixirs.
Dispel - Whopee fucking doo, I can cure silence, darkness, and slow. Who cares? Same as using an All-Cure. When will we able to cure more stats?
Holy Magic Shield, Holy Symbol, Adv. Bless - I can cast these in 4 seconds, and have 95% of my time remaining with nothing to do, except hanging on a rope or hit for 1/5 the damage of the rest of all other classes. I don't wanna hit their damage, but why not 4/5 of it instead of 1/5?

The only time when I can really feel like "supporting" is at bosses. Even with the convenience of pots, Bishops can save your ass if you're careless, so that's the only time where I can say I'm useful "supporting" other people. But at training, what you call support is having us take 4 seconds to cast skills, and then do fucking nothing.

That's not real support, that's casting a skill and then hanging on a rope. And no, Bishops won't come down from the rope to heal you or hit mobs, because it basically makes no difference for them. With how weak their attacks are, they're just better of leeching. And leeching shouldn't be a viable way to level 120-200.

P.S. Glacial Chains should just rush mobs instead of pulling.

[byakugan]

Why so much hate over GC? its 1000% extra dmg in exchange for 270ms longer animation. The damage is big enough to 1HKO most monsters and if the monsters got a boss flag It will pull them close and add it's DoT for extra damage derived from Extreme magic. Even if it's not as strong as Mist Eruption it definitely is helpful.

[Abysseon]

Why so much hate over GC?

For me its due to the comparisons with Mist Eruption.

Also, if this is the last update than I think the adventure mages were more balanced with each other
in Chaos than the new Jump revamp.

[Teppi]

Alright, gee, so much ignorance. Here's the thing on Bishops being a "support class", and the guy saying we should just leech and support:

Being a support class in Maple has never pineappleing worked. I used to train my Priest (pre-BB) partying on Himes with a DK or another attack job... they leveled much faster than I did. When we complained about it back then, people would just say "oh, but you're not attacking, you're just supporting, stop peaching about it". Oh sure, I'm not worth the exp, right? Because all I do is teleport all around the map gathering Hime mobs, while the DK stayed in a corner chatting with guildmates, attack for 5 seconds to kill the mob, and continue chatting. The attacker deserves all the exp and supporters deserve to level slower.

Such a stupid idea.

At least we became the fastest levelers in 4th job to compensate, but that changed with BB, so we're now basically forever Priests, in terms of sucking. Do you think changing the rates back to 6:4 will help? Certainly it won't, it didn't help pre-BB, and it wont' help post-Jump. Because in Maple Story, attackers get all the experience, and leechers get the low end.

Now, people already mentioned about our skills...

Heal - Useful in pot cooldown bosses and when people get seduced, that's it. Most 4th jobbers carry hundreds of Power Elixirs.
Dispel - Whopee pineappleing doo, I can cure silence, darkness, and slow. Who cares? Same as using an All-Cure. When will we able to cure more stats?
Holy Magic Shield, Holy Symbol, Adv. Bless - I can cast these in 4 seconds, and have 95% of my time remaining with nothing to do, except hanging on a rope or hit for 1/5 the damage of the rest of all other classes. I don't wanna hit their damage, but why not 4/5 of it instead of 1/5?

The only time when I can really feel like "supporting" is at bosses. Even with the convenience of pots, Bishops can save your ass if you're careless, so that's the only time where I can say I'm useful "supporting" other people. But at training, what you call support is having us take 4 seconds to cast skills, and then do pineappleing nothing.

That's not real support, that's casting a skill and then hanging on a rope. And no, Bishops won't come down from the rope to heal you or hit mobs, because it basically makes no difference for them. With how weak their attacks are, they're just better of leeching. And leeching shouldn't be a viable way to level 120-200.

P.S. Glacial Chains should just rush mobs instead of pulling.
while u may not get as much exp as the killer aka dk, u forgot the fact that priests were one of the fast lvlers pre-4th job, assuming that u played during that time. i mean cbs, f/ps, rangers, etc. were jealous of priests for not attacking and lvl so fast. i don't mind that being repeated (meaning 1 or 2 other classes lvling faster)
and if u really played correctly at himes, priests were rather fast actually. i myself played a 12x priest pre-4th job and i often hime with a i/l, both of us were attacking (the i/l of course kills faster) but the exp was definitely fast. point is nexon only need to tweek support skills a little more and they should just leave bishop/priests being the support class because it was meant to be like that. if u dont like being the support class, PLAY A MECH. seriously. if u played pre-4th job then u CHOSE the support class so stop the b!tching at nexon for not wanting to make u an attacker now. don't just play an easy level class (yes bishops/priests were always easy to level until 14x-16x post bb (maybe?)) and expect nexon to tweak the game to u could have an easy bossing char =.="

[iamflip]

while u may not get as much exp as the killer aka dk, u forgot the fact that priests were one of the fast lvlers pre-4th job, assuming that u played during that time. i mean cbs, f/ps, rangers, etc. were jealous of priests for not attacking and lvl so fast. i don't mind that being repeated (meaning 1 or 2 other classes lvling faster)
and if u really played correctly at himes, priests were rather fast actually. i myself played a 12x priest pre-4th job and i often hime with a i/l, both of us were attacking (the i/l of course kills faster) but the exp was definitely fast. point is nexon only need to tweek support skills a little more and they should just leave bishop/priests being the support class because it was meant to be like that. if u dont like being the support class, PLAY A MECH. seriously. if u played pre-4th job then u CHOSE the support class so stop the b!tching at nexon for not wanting to make u an attacker now. don't just play an easy level class (yes bishops/priests were always easy to level until 14x-16x post bb (maybe?)) and expect nexon to tweak the game to u could have an easy bossing char =.="

Have you even played a healer class in Maple before? Seriously? I don't remember it being so fast pre-BB thanks to loads of people that didn't want to party at Himes and other places. Sure, post-BB, things are much easier, but when you look at the big picture, we're the one's being shafted, having to rely on parties just to keep up with everyone. Sure, we can party and buff people and stuff at LHC, but that's all we can do. We can't damage mobs effectively, so what ends up happening is us always leeching.

And hell, if that's how things end up going to be, THEN MAKE IT pineappleING WORTHWHILE FOR US TO BE IN THOSE KINDS OF POSITIONS OFTEN. And I don't see that happening because at this rate, we are gonna lag behind because in the end, those that make more damage get more EXP. And when is a good time to party? LHC? No, they're gonna nerf the party play bonus there. Monster Park? You have to be joking. Bosses? Maybe, but you don't tend to boss often.

It sucks hard. A lot of this sucks real hard.

[cronnoponno]

Wizet didn't make Bishops so that they can be self-sufficient all-round dps'ers, healers, and robotic buffers. Clerics were clearly made with the idea of support, you can't use their poor execution as an excuse to suddenly demand they make it into a damage dealer class.

I'm not saying Bishops have it great right now, they're totally screwed over. But instead of giving them a better DPS skill to make them self-reliant, when they could simply give them better support mechanics in order to make them needed in the way they were originally intended, is not something I would agree with. That's like saying Thiefs should get a 1k defense buff in exchange for avoid because ''avoid has crappy use these days''.

Or maybe we should give warriors ranged skills? Everyone knows range > Melee in all situations, especially now that you can ''range'' up close. Lets just remove that to, Melee just has little to no way of working.


I'm amazed people hate GC, I thought it was the coolest thing ever, and I might replay my I/L just because of it.

[donovan]

They really need to nerf Mist Explosion, or give it a larger cooldown.

[Sorien]

I'm amazed people hate GC, I thought it was the coolest thing ever, and I might replay my I/L just because of it.

I like Glacial Chains quite a bit, but I'm not sure I like the way it works right now. I like that they made it stronger and all, but I think it would be better as a two hit skill (one hit going out and one when it pulls back) with no cooldown. If they were to make it work like that while leaving its damage % as it is, then it'll be on par with Mist Eruption in terms of usefulness I think.

[chrisloup]

glacial chains should work like a whole map vac hack. teleport all mobs from the map (12 mobs) right in front of you. with 5 second cd.

[Baklava]

Not sure if you guys know, but you have to spawn poison mists in order to use mist explosion...

It's not insta-damage...

[PeePeeAyeDeeKay]

Well I remember someone(forgot who) mentioning potion cooldown on normal maps, and building off of that...

What if they made potion cooldown apply on ALL maps, but gave 3rd job Priest a party skill where X% of damage done recovers as HP and Y% of damage done recovers as MP. However, lower the stats on recovery skills for other jobs and the defense mechanics would probably need to be improved a bit.

Lower Shining Ray to 20 SP so you can max that HP MP leech skill

Possibly lower Holy Magic Shell and Holy Symbol to 20 SP, then add Holy Shield back but in 3rd job along with making it apply to Seduce, Stun, Slow, Zombify, Disorient, and Dispel.

As a compensation for a lower offensive ability as a Bishop, possibly give Advanced Bless a passive +50% - 100% EXP boost on Holy Symbol for the Bishop alone? I'm thinking they could possibly change -25% MP cost to -25% cooldown time for party for Advanced Bless.

Wound system? Each time you get hit, you receive wounds and you can't recover the HP that are wounds. Lets say if you take a hit and receive 25 wounds, and your max hp is 1000. That means you would only be able to heal HP up to 975/1000 until those wounds are healed. That would mean Bishops would be getting a new skill in I'd say probably 3rd job that heals "wounds". Wound healing potions would have a long cooldown of lets say 30 seconds to 1 min?

.. Just throwing out some ideas that could make the Bishop class more of a support class but without decreasing their leveling ability? as well as possibly making the game more interesting?..

[Sorien]

Not sure if you guys know, but you have to spawn poison mists in order to use mist explosion...

It's not insta-damage...

I'm pretty sure everyone that's been posting is aware of that fact. Mist Explosion is still pretty crazy though, especially if two or three mist clouds are placed close enough to the same enemy to hit it with all of them.

[Cheesecake]

Well I remember someone(forgot who) mentioning potion cooldown on normal maps, and building off of that...

What if they made potion cooldown apply on ALL maps, but gave 3rd job Priest a party skill where X% of damage done recovers as HP and Y% of damage done recovers as MP. However, lower the stats on recovery skills for other jobs and the defense mechanics would probably need to be improved a bit.

Lower Shining Ray to 20 SP so you can max that HP MP leech skill

Possibly lower Holy Magic Shell and Holy Symbol to 20 SP, then add Holy Shield back but in 3rd job along with making it apply to Seduce, Stun, Slow, Zombify, Disorient, and Dispel.

As a compensation for a lower offensive ability as a Bishop, possibly give Advanced Bless a passive +50% - 100% EXP boost on Holy Symbol for the Bishop alone? I'm thinking they could possibly change -25% MP cost to -25% cooldown time for party for Advanced Bless.

Wound system? Each time you get hit, you receive wounds and you can't recover the HP that are wounds. Lets say if you take a hit and receive 25 wounds, and your max hp is 1000. That means you would only be able to heal HP up to 975/1000 until those wounds are healed. That would mean Bishops would be getting a new skill in I'd say probably 3rd job that heals "wounds". Wound healing potions would have a long cooldown of lets say 30 seconds to 1 min?

.. Just throwing out some ideas that could make the Bishop class more of a support class but without decreasing their leveling ability? as well as possibly making the game more interesting?..
Instead of redesigning the games function to cater to one classes needs, redesign the class to meet the games needs. I feel like it would have been more practical to give bishops a skill like sharpeyes and speed infusion. Not many roles left for a bishop to fill, unless nexon can pull something out of their butt that's amazing and ground breaking.

[Rick]

Hey guys, let's go from one extreme to the other! Instead of making Bishops unneeded, let's make it impossible to live without them!

[Panacea]

Despite the smartass-ness, I agree with Rick.

Each class should be able to solo on its own, without having to rely on the support of another. (ie. Don't make it utterly impossible to train without a Bishop.)

[donovan]

Throw an extra 20% Damage onto to Holy Focus, since they lack Amplification. Decrease Explosion damage to be closer to I/L, they can be above for all I care, but the gap right now is insane.

The last thing I'd like is removal of Doom for Reset, and unique Reset Animation for I/L and Bishops, but meh.

EDIT: Oh an Invincible, why did they bother changing the Icon if they aren't going to change the animation to match. Fire Arrow's Icon too.

[66alex66]

Why not just make it so party buffs give exp when you cast it on people who don't have them yet? Sure that could be abused, but 1k per buff wouldn't hurt in compare to what bishops are doing now. Also increase the exp when healing party members.

[donovan]

Why not just make it so party buffs give exp when you cast it on people who don't have them yet? Sure that could be abused, but 1k per buff wouldn't hurt in compare to what bishops are doing now. Also increase the exp when healing party members.

Sure this could be abused? Why bother hacking with this, dumb idea.

Buff, dispel buff, Buff, dispel buff, rinse, repeat.

[Teppi]

Have you even played a healer class in Maple before? Seriously? I don't remember it being so fast pre-BB thanks to loads of people that didn't want to party at Himes and other places. Sure, post-BB, things are much easier, but when you look at the big picture, we're the one's being shafted, having to rely on parties just to keep up with everyone. Sure, we can party and buff people and stuff at LHC, but that's all we can do. We can't damage mobs effectively, so what ends up happening is us always leeching.

And hell, if that's how things end up going to be, THEN MAKE IT pineappleING WORTHWHILE FOR US TO BE IN THOSE KINDS OF POSITIONS OFTEN. And I don't see that happening because at this rate, we are gonna lag behind because in the end, those that make more damage get more EXP. And when is a good time to party? LHC? No, they're gonna nerf the party play bonus there. Monster Park? You have to be joking. Bosses? Maybe, but you don't tend to boss often.

It sucks hard. A lot of this sucks real hard.

yes i played pre-bb. i played it since beta, so i went through pre-3rd job and everything. yes i've been through dtpt, the orange version of dt (forgot name), grim party (and how kage was OMG RICH), vkpt, goby party, squid pt and hime party. being through all of that, not wanting to party? i'm sorry but u haven't been there then. it was extremely easy for me to find party as a priest because there are so many places that bishops are wanted. grim party was easy to find with f/p, wks, and dks. goby, squid, viking party i can just cc and find a party right away, himes it was super easy with dks, ils and wks. so i dont know where've u been with the "not being able to find a party" or "not being fast". the other solo classes (like wks, hermits, rangers) were the slow levelers and they kept envying priests with the fast lvling. and trust me, i enjoyed the parties when i was going up and down maps to give support skills to others. that's where interactions happen and that's where i made maple friends. that's the part i love about being a priest pre-4th job
speaking of pre-4th job, nexon should design maps like vkpt, gpt, and squid pt again, where there are multiple platforms and players have to use 5-10 hits to kill monsters. the party system back then works really well and it was actually fun

[LegendGospel]

Wizet didn't make Bishops so that they can be self-sufficient all-round dps'ers, healers, and robotic buffers.

Unlike all other classes, which is a clear problem. See it now?


Clerics were clearly made with the idea of support, you can't use their poor execution as an excuse to suddenly demand they make it into a damage dealer class.

I can demand to fix what is broken.

This is broken:
-Cast 3 or 4 support skills for other players, which takes a few seconds. Then have nothing worth to do.
-Gain BRUTALLY less exp than ALL the other jobs in the game. 30%+ exp/h LOWER than all other jobs.
-Have a gameplay that consists of hanging on a rope most of the time.


But instead of giving them a better DPS skill to make them self-reliant, when they could simply give them better support mechanics

Maple? Support mechanics? lol'd

To give Bishops "support mechanics" would involve making something as crazy as the guy above suggested. That would give Bishops good support mechanics, but break the rest of the game for everyone. That's not the solution.

This is Maple's design, no other:

Can do good damage? Good.

Can't do good damage? hang on a rope. (Or spam heal, which isn't terribly useful given how crappy exp heal gives you. But they can't make heal exp higher, or there'd be DK leech, lol...)

I'm not complaining about Bishops being WEAK, they should be the WEAKEST class, I AGREE WITH YOU. But they are... Far. Too. Weak. Unless you have 3000+ pot INT, that is. I'm complaining about not being able to level at the speed of other 4th jobbers because we can't do CRAP.


Or maybe we should give warriors ranged skills? Everyone knows range > Melee in all situations, especially now that you can ''range'' up close. Lets just remove that to, Melee just has little to no way of working.

Nice try. But you can deal good enough damage to level with long range attacks and melee. While you deal a fraction of the damage with a Bishop. So lolno.

In short:


Instead of redesigning the games function to cater to one classes needs, redesign the class to meet the games needs.

[Sorien]

Why not just make it so party buffs give exp when you cast it on people who don't have them yet? Sure that could be abused, but 1k per buff wouldn't hurt in compare to what bishops are doing now. Also increase the exp when healing party members.

Rather than doing that, Nexon could try something like making monsters have a secondary pool of experience that can only be accessed by aiding party members.

As and example:
Say in LHC, as it is now, a Bishop goes to Bearwolves and a party member kills one of the enemies, gaining 50k exp and then 150k bonus exp. That party member took 20k or so damage total while fighting the Bearwolf and the bishop did all the healing, as well as gave the party member a large slew of buffs. Along with the base exp and party bonus exp, the bishop would gain something like 40k exp or possibly more from the hidden exp pool because of all the buffing and healing.

Doing something like that would at least give Bishops an incentive to go and actually do something with a party for training, rather than sitting on a rope and giving Holy Symbol at everyone's beck and call.

[Shidoshi]

I'm pretty sure everyone that's been posting is aware of that fact. Mist Explosion is still pretty crazy though, especially if two or three mist clouds are placed close enough to the same enemy to hit it with all of them.

It doesn't work like that, it's impossible to make it hit more than once every 10 seconds on the same monster.

[Sorien]

It doesn't work like that, it's impossible to make it hit more than once every 10 seconds on the same monster.

Oh, my mistake then. I was under the impression that Mist Explosion worked the same way as Meso Explosion.

[Abysseon]

Oh, my mistake then. I was under the impression that Mist Explosion worked the same way as Meso Explosion.

If that was the case than they'll be one of the most broken classes... >.>

I/L at Leviathan:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0T24izLyGs

[cronnoponno]

Legend Gospel, all they have to do about that is change the EXP ratio, this whole issue would never have been a problem if people weren't so ASSHURT that others who were of no importance to them simply got easier level ups because they decide to sit and leech. I already said this in an earlier post.

All you did was complain about what I said, and didn't even offer any real help that would change the situation. Back then, I always heard everyone say they wanted to be a cleric because they liked supporting, they liked helping in an indirect way that didn't involve help bashing skulls, and they were really useful. Nexon made this class into a support class, and there are fine ways to promote support.

For example, what if they were able to do something like, I don't know, use skills that required them to remain stationary while providing buffs to everyone within a certain distance from themselves? It's a similar concept to the ''Aura's'' that battle mage uses, but we could give these cooler, and more interesting effects. What about erecting holy idols (like dark lightning, only light), that heal everyone within the vicinity over time, and THIS can actually heal zombify, but not be as broken as ''HEAL HEAL HEAL'' through it? What if they could do both? For example, setting up this ''healing'' idol, on one side of the map, then using the stationary spell in order to do whatever effect for the other people on the other side of the map? This way, if anyone is seduced, they'll walk into the holy idol, and end up healing themselves.


There are plenty of ''priest-like'' things you can make out of a bishop, that would make them interesting and important, and even add a unique concept to bossing, in fact, my idea makes sense because battle mages seem to be pretty opposite to bishops(dark looking genesis, partial support), why not have a unique ''aura'' method themselves?

You guys(and Nexon is equally guilty) are not thinking good enough, it CAN be done, and bishops CAN be made an interesting class.

To further add on to this, what if they had a ''keydown'' skill that works like the old battleship? Imagine that, sort of like smoke screen, only it has it's own reserve HP that regenerates over time when not being used, and blocks status effects and damage? That would be a REAL support skill, that takes actual skill to use. Imagine being able to shield your party members at will, from serious threats from bosses, so long as you're not stupid and spam the shield. Hell, to make it even more worthwhile, make it block 1/1's(but make it do actual damage).

Think of it as like a puppet, that works for the party? That'd be a great support skill, wouldn't you agree?

[Kalovale]

The idea of support in Maple has always been a myth. People saw "Cleric" and assumed supportive role, they said they liked being supportive, they never knew they were not at all supportive.
Perhaps they were, when Heal actually mattered, LPQ, OPQ, Himes and what not. Things changed. Meso was on multiple occasions generated like diarrhea, inflation on a lucky drop led to the super ease of access to unlimited pot supply. Boom, nobody cares for Heal anymore.

I would say that as a HB/Sed mule, I've been a whole lot more crucially supportive to the HT business than any Bishop could wish to be. This is, of course, just a mind refresher as to what support really is in Maple.

A note I'd also like to make is that old school Priests did level way faster than other classes, and with way less difficulty as well. Sure, at Himes, you're jealous of us who get the bigger portion of the cake (wasn't that much, really, just 1.5x more than you get), but if you cared enough to go look for a SQPT, or if you've ever observed a F/P at Grims, you'd better appreciate what you'd got going.
Then, I don't feel the need to point out the prime time of Bishophood.
Sure, things are looking a little ugly now, but that's always been the case with Nexon, take Archer D/Cing at random against their wish for example, that lasted, what? 2 years? peach and moan all you like, at the end of the day, you're just going to have to live with it.

I'm all for bitching though. I think they do have the right.

[cronnoponno]

The fact that Nexon made their own game broken does not mean that Clerics were not intended for support. Bards in latale are still useful for healing despite the fact that you can just spam astro pots and add another attacker to the group, they're still support, Alchemists in Grand Chase were completely over-ruled because they utterly destroyed the balance in that game farther than Maple has to their own, but they're still ''support''.

You guys aren't thinking wildly enough here, there are plenty of things Nexon can do to make a really bitching support class, although I can't dictate what you guys want, if you bishops really just want to be a clone of a mediocre(or equal) magician with no real unique or diverse nature to it, just to feel slightly more important than you are, I guess I can't reason with you then.

[Malthe]

The fact that Nexon made their own game broken does not mean that Clerics were not intended for support. Bards in latale are still useful for healing despite the fact that you can just spam astro pots and add another attacker to the group, they're still support, Alchemists in Grand Chase were completely over-ruled because they utterly destroyed the balance in that game farther than Maple has to their own, but they're still ''support''.

You guys aren't thinking wildly enough here, there are plenty of things Nexon can do to make a really bitching support class, although I can't dictate what you guys want, if you bishops really just want to be a clone of a mediocre(or equal) magician with no real unique or diverse nature to it, just to feel slightly more important than you are, I guess I can't reason with you then.

Did anybody say bishops weren't intended for support?
IIRC, people have said that the support simply doesnt work.

Also it doesnt fucking matter how wildly WE think since it's nexon who change the game in the end.

[Dusk]

Bishops are clearly intended to be a support class, because Nexon thinks it's justified to make them do like 30% of the damage that everyone else does. There are just a lot of fundamental challenges to the existence of a support class in the game, and most of them have already been covered in this thread.

Recap:

Can't have only one support class in a game with 20+ classes
Supporting abilities aren't enhanced by stats
Dumb health system
Dumb boss design
In order for support to be wanted, you have to make solo play much less viable for non-support classes
Solo play should always be viable. No one spends ALL their time in an MMO grouped. Damage is way too big of a factor in any solo activity in Maple, though, and whatever a support class can contribute to or receive from a party does not balance that.

[byakugan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0T24izLyGs



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0MXp1loGo8

Comparing both videos F/P are obviously ahead with Mist eruption, but the gap is not that huge.

What needs to be nerfed on Mist Eruption is the multipler bonus given by DoT's. I wonder how loweing it from 1.5 to 1.3 would work.

[Atruya]

If that F/P would have casted two Mists, the ME would probably 1 shot it.

Same with the pap vid, you can easily cast 4 mists in the room and have them all hit pap.

Or doesn't it work that way?

[Chilly]

If that F/P would have casted two Mists, the ME would probably 1 shot it.

Same with the pap vid, you can easily cast 4 mists in the room and have them all hit pap.

Or doesn't it work that way?


It doesn't work like that, it's impossible to make it hit more than once every 10 seconds on the same monster.

It already is overpowered as it is. Perhaps they could change the mechanics on which the multipliers multiply instead of changing the percentage, but then again, just moving the percentage down would be the quickest and easiest method to do so.

I'm assuming GC is still 30 skill points to max, though I see some people mentioning 10, where is this number coming from?
Edit: I see it now, people are confusing Master Level (10) with Max Level (30).

[byakugan]

If that F/P would have casted two Mists, the ME would probably 1 shot it.

Same with the pap vid, you can easily cast 4 mists in the room and have them all hit pap.

Or doesn't it work that way?

Someone said before that you cannot hit 1 monster with 2 mists at the same time. It would indeed be too broken, you wouldn't even need to apply DOTs first.

[Atruya]

Someone said before that you cannot hit 1 monster with 2 mists at the same time. It would indeed be too broken, you wouldn't even need to apply DOTs first.

I see, that makes things a lot easier.

[cronnoponno]

Bishops are clearly intended to be a support class, because Nexon thinks it's justified to make them do like 30% of the damage that everyone else does. There are just a lot of fundamental challenges to the existence of a support class in the game, and most of them have already been covered in this thread.

Recap:

Can't have only one support class in a game with 20+ classes
Supporting abilities aren't enhanced by stats
Dumb health system
Dumb boss design
In order for support to be wanted, you have to make solo play much less viable for non-support classes
Solo play should always be viable. No one spends ALL their time in an MMO grouped. Damage is way too big of a factor in any solo activity in Maple, though, and whatever a support class can contribute to or receive from a party does not balance that.


The things I suggested could have solved nearly all of those issues, and that was only thinking up a few interesting skills. Support CAN work, Nexon just isn't trying hard enough, and seeing by the attitudes of the people on this thread, I don't blame them anymore.

Of course, I know my suggestions will never actually be implemented, but support CAN work in Maple if you get a little creative, instead of destroying the benefits of other classes to make priests feel more important, they can increase the role of a priest to make partying more viable than solo.

[ShanghaiDizzy]

OMG thank you nexon for at least compromising with AR for me!

Ha and the last thread people were all over me for saying AR needed a buff. :P

Nobody was against you in that thread for buffing AR. What they were talking about is that AR wouldn't matter if it was multi-hit or single hit unless you were able to hit the damage cap. Also, AR was not buffed. It was 900% single hit before. Now it's 2 hit 450%. This is not a buff unless you're able to hit damage cap. It's practically the same for the average Bishop at the moment.

As for the other discussions about Bishops being a support class...

I still hold to my stance that Bishops are a support class. Not a good support class but still a support class. Very little does it offer in terms of support outside of bossing and when it does offer support in bossing, a whole lot of it is nulled due to the existence of wheels.

[Dusk]

The things I suggested could have solved nearly all of those issues, and that was only thinking up a few interesting skills. Support CAN work, Nexon just isn't trying hard enough, and seeing by the attitudes of the people on this thread, I don't blame them anymore.

Of course, I know my suggestions will never actually be implemented, but support CAN work in Maple if you get a little creative, instead of destroying the benefits of other classes to make priests feel more important, they can increase the role of a priest to make partying more viable than solo.

The skills you suggested do not solve any of those issues. All they do is increase the variety in skill usage, which is a problem that affects every class in the game.

[LegendGospel]

Legend Gospel, all they have to do about that is change the EXP ratio, this whole issue would never have been a problem if people weren't so ASSHURT that others who were of no importance to them simply got easier level ups because they decide to sit and leech. I already said this in an earlier post.

All you did was complain about what I said, and didn't even offer any real help that would change the situation. Back then, I always heard everyone say they wanted to be a cleric because they liked supporting, they liked helping in an indirect way that didn't involve help bashing skulls, and they were really useful. Nexon made this class into a support class, and there are fine ways to promote support.

For example, what if they were able to do something like, I don't know, use skills that required them to remain stationary while providing buffs to everyone within a certain distance from themselves? It's a similar concept to the ''Aura's'' that battle mage uses, but we could give these cooler, and more interesting effects. What about erecting holy idols (like dark lightning, only light), that heal everyone within the vicinity over time, and THIS can actually heal zombify, but not be as broken as ''HEAL HEAL HEAL'' through it? What if they could do both? For example, setting up this ''healing'' idol, on one side of the map, then using the stationary spell in order to do whatever effect for the other people on the other side of the map? This way, if anyone is seduced, they'll walk into the holy idol, and end up healing themselves.


There are plenty of ''priest-like'' things you can make out of a bishop, that would make them interesting and important, and even add a unique concept to bossing, in fact, my idea makes sense because battle mages seem to be pretty opposite to bishops(dark looking genesis, partial support), why not have a unique ''aura'' method themselves?

You guys(and Nexon is equally guilty) are not thinking good enough, it CAN be done, and bishops CAN be made an interesting class.

To further add on to this, what if they had a ''keydown'' skill that works like the old battleship? Imagine that, sort of like smoke screen, only it has it's own reserve HP that regenerates over time when not being used, and blocks status effects and damage? That would be a REAL support skill, that takes actual skill to use. Imagine being able to shield your party members at will, from serious threats from bosses, so long as you're not stupid and spam the shield. Hell, to make it even more worthwhile, make it block 1/1's(but make it do actual damage).

Think of it as like a puppet, that works for the party? That'd be a great support skill, wouldn't you agree?

These are nice ideas for skills, but...
HOW IN HEAVENS DOES THAT SOLVE BISHOPS LEVELING NOT EVEN HALF AS FAST AS EVERY OTHER FOURTH JOB? :f3:

If you read carefully, that was my real complaint. Sure support can work, but where's the exp income for Bishops themselves?

I made a cleric years ago liking to support. Started it along with my girlfriend, who played a Brawler when they came out. Back then pots mattered, and it was nice to heal with a 6:4 leech ratio. Playing together 100% of the time in party, she was usually 7+ levels above me, so not even back then supporting was self-sustainable. And sure as hell it's not now, specially at party play area monsters, where every bit of damage matters.


The idea of support in Maple has always been a myth. People saw "Cleric" and assumed supportive role, they said they liked being supportive, they never knew they were not at all supportive.
Perhaps they were, when Heal actually mattered, LPQ, OPQ, Himes and what not. Things changed. Meso was on multiple occasions generated like diarrhea, inflation on a lucky drop led to the super ease of access to unlimited pot supply. Boom, nobody cares for Heal anymore.

What this fine gentleman said.


A note I'd also like to make is that old school Priests did level way faster than other classes, and with way less difficulty as well. Sure, at Himes, you're jealous of us who get the bigger portion of the cake (wasn't that much, really, just 1.5x more than you get), but if you cared enough to go look for a SQPT, or if you've ever observed a F/P at Grims, you'd better appreciate what you'd got going.

It's just that back then mages sucked even more than priests, but priests still sucked compared to other 3rd jobs XD. But of course both mages and bishops in 4th job got a payback for their pain, letting them spam ultimates.

Well, no use kicking a dead horse. What matters is the current situation, where Bishops can't dream of getting the same exp as other 4th jobbers simply because our dps sucks more than it should, and supporting offers no real good income of exp :f7: soooo... we're basically stuck to be leeching mules for gameplay (not counting bossing, where btw we also get crappy exp).

Maybe this is why Nexon is removing party play areas like LHC, not only Bishops but basically any job can just hang on a rope while 1-2 people attack and the rest just leech. Monster Carnival is instanced by rooms and time limited so you have to move around too... of course that doesn't change that Bishops will get the lower end in Monster Carnival still. :pineapple:

In short:

Bishops are meant to support? Yes.
Is support a sustainable gameplay in maple? No.
Ergo Bishops are borked.

Possible solutions:
a) Let Bishops hit hard enough to get sum chunks of exp from party play areas/bosses.
b) Make supporting reward Bishops in exp so they actually have a reason to do it, instead of just being really nice to others. BISHOPS DO IT FOR REWARDS, LEARN YOUR RELIGIONS NEXON.

[Wheels1]

In my opinion, it's better for a Bishop to have decent Damage per Second, rather than just being a support class crap, so Bishops can gain about the same EXP as other classes. Having the "Bishop is a support class" argument is getting old.

[cronnoponno]

I really hope this doesn't end up being a double a post, this lagged A LOT.



cut


The ways I suggested would make survivability as bosses much easier, isn't the main problem with the Empress that people have low survivability? The old ratio was plenty enough for the priests I asked, while 1-70 sucked(which it did for every class back then), and 70-80 was pretty terrible, every class hit a leveling spike at 80-100, and then it went back to crap until 120(and even further if you played a 4th job that took effort to go through). Himes were pretty much the best place to train with a DK much higher level than you. I've tried training a paladin pre-BB, and I would have killed for stuff like holy symbol, bless(I was unfunded so accuracy sucked), and constant healing. Especially training at soul teddies, or himes, since heal actually damaged the mobs so the EXP still went nicely into the priests favor.

I can understand now how they were totally screwed over now that most of that is useless, but they could just make them really beastly supporters rather than just slightly buff them so they can remain in ''mid-tier'' category in damage, you're practically arguing that they should make Bishops better at leeching.

Lets ignore 1-3 jobs, the potential of a class should not be judged in these categories, completely anyway. Back then DK's were the best in third job, but their 4th job wasn't as hot(best in warriors, anyway). So, no matter how overpowered they are before they hit their potential, they still fall short.

Here are a few skills that I think would make support more worthwhile, off the top of my head:

(third job)Perfect Shield:
For ten uses, your party will ignore any debuffs that ''dispel''. This skill will have a 50 second cooldown AFTER the skill has either expired, or the skill has been used up.

(third job, remove spell booster) Hero Amplification:
Erects a statue that buffs the % of damage to anyone in range, however, their MP cost is increased by 50%.(The damage % could be debated). This tower has a set amount of HP that will cause it to be destroyed when depleted, it can be affected by the Clerics ''Heal'' skill in order to sustain it. While in this barrier, holy attribute MAGIC is increased by 10%(This is about the rate an e-wand gives mages, right?)

Remove the magic rock requirement for mystic door, only people who get this skill through potential should have to pay for it.

(remove Holy Symbol, and Dispel)

(Third Job) Empowerment:
Dispels any abnormal status effects on yourself and all party members within range, and gives a 150% boost to the party's EXP. The priest will have his/her EXP rate increased by 250%, this effect only takes place with a maximum amount of party members, does not stack with the 150% the party gets, and is lowered depending on how fewer party members you have(So having 5 party members will still give you more than 150%).

(Remove Doom)
New skill:
Dormant Potential:
Adds a random potential effect to yourself and anyone in the party, at the master level, it can only go up to the ''epic'' rank. Only Boss damage, total damage, all stat, and all stat % can be received by this skill.



4th job:

Buff Mastery:
Increases the HP of tower skills, allows ''legendary'' tier to ''Dormant Potential'', Allows Empowerment to have a 10% chance to dispel ALL abnormal conditions. Buff duration bonus still remains, magic attack bonus still remains. Perfect shield becomes able to stop 15 dispels and has a 30 second cooldown.

New Skill, Unburden:
For a certain amount of time, you do not cause the EXP of the party to lower by being in it, however you still get the EXP from the parties contribution.(What I mean is that the parties EXP is not compensated by you joining it, this is a good thing, however you still get all of your normal EXP that you would get). This buff is affected by buff mastery, and has a cooldown.


(Remove Mana reflection)
New skill: Spirit Shield.
When the Key is pressed, a magical shield will come out of the Bishops channeled Mana, causing any and all harm to be rendered ineffective to all who are in, this shield has a limit to how much damage can take and will heal over time when remaining idle. If the shield is ''overheated'', it will be unusable for a set time. This is considered a ''Tower'' type skill.

Remove ADV bless, and give it's effects to buff mastery

New Skill:
Tower of Salvation
Creates a giant tower in the shape of a cross, which will heal all friendly units and damage all unfriendly units within range, this skill will heal through zombify, the interval will be 4 seconds. The tower will have a certain amount of hp, and when it is destroyed it will go through cooldown,


Give Genesis the ability to heal all towers within range, and heal all players within range, allow it to heal through zombify.

(Remove Bahamut)

Skill: Guardian
The user of this skill will conjure a giant wheel on it, it will then spin through a number of options on it, depending on the number, a certain guardian will burst out of the wheel and provide you with a number of benefits. Upon entry into the game, the explosion from the wheel will damage nearby monsters.

1: Summon Bahamut:
Summons a holy dragon to fight with you, can attack up to X monsters(Level dependant).
2: Summon Maple warrior: A legendary warrior will appear to buff you and allies for a certain duration, this buff will be stack-able with other buffs.

Those are the only ones I can think of, due to not knowing Maplestory's lore like the back of my hand, I don't want to make up a bunch of furballs and cherries, but I'd say it has at least 6 different types of summons that each do interesting effects.


These are just some skills I thought off the top of my head, and the potency of them could be debated to be ''fair'', but I think these are a few good ideas for interesting skills, if Nexon spent a few months brainstorming like this, I'm sure they could really blow our minds with the concept of ''support'' and really make Bishops an extremely desirable team-mate.

[LegendGospel]

The priest will have his/her EXP rate increased by 250%

Something like this is the only thing that would actually help Priests/Bishops into being happy supporters.

Right now you can choose between hanging on a rope, or spamming heal for 100~ exp a heal (and waste pots getting hit). Guess which option Bishops are gonna choose.

If Bishops are gaining roughly the same %/hour as people attacking, you'll see them more motivated to be on the battlefield doing their role (support), whatever support skills you give to them. Towers, heals, summons, dispels, whatever.

The easiest solution really is having HS give Bishops higher exp bonus than the rest of the party, though not very creative.

[cronnoponno]

Wait, how does my unburden idea not help, and only my HS idea does? I figured that'd be fun as hell to be placing towers strategically during boss fights, and keeping up their HP's and being able to actually SAVE people so they don't spam 50 wheels when they fight the next best boss. I also think that since they're the king of buffs, rather than giving them 50 buffs, give them a few buffs that mash the effects of the others, to save SP.

[LegendGospel]

Wait, how does my unburden idea not help, and only my HS idea does?

The way I understood it, is basically that it makes everyone gain more exp than the Bishop again, making a HS personal buff moot. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Plus, it basically shouts Bishops are burdens, lol.

[cronnoponno]

Basically, the mechanics of it would work like this:

HS flags it as 6 people in the party.
Because there are 6 people, the EXP is distributed 6 ways.
However, unburden makes you ''not count'' in this distribution, meaning it's split 5 ways, AKA giving everyone a bigger chunk.
You still receive this bigger chunk of 5-way EXP, and get the benefits of a 6 person party. So, lets say a mob gives 60 EXP. If the ratio was split fairly, where everyone got 10% of the kill, everyone would normally get 10 EXP. Unburden would remove the mechanics of a 6th person, giving everyone(including the unburdened) 12 EXP instead. Combine this with 250% EXP, the priest gets much more.

Unburden just seemed like a priestly name, where one wouldn't want to impose on others, but I guess I subliminally made it sound like that.

This way, no one has to worry about a priest taking their EXP, and it would actually be beneficial to both, because they can only gain EXP with you in the party, so they'd take you instead of inviting someone else who would steal a chunk of their EXP.

[Dusk]

There are plenty of ways to make EXP growth more equal without making everyone's damage the same or imposing party training.

- Are there fixed EXP rewards for completing Monster Park instances? If not, there should be.

- Nexon could write up some real lore for the game, and make quests the primary means of leveling.

- Different builds for each class. Bishops could choose to spec to deal more damage or to be better at support. Other classes would gain support options, or different playstyles. This is the most unfeasible option.

The stupid grind-in-one-map-for-12-hours-to-level model is why no one cares about anything but damage.