Spam Panic or Power Strike?

[Hazzy]

To keep things short and sweet, which is most effective at a boss? Spamming Panic or Power Strike? I'm sure one is better than the other one up to a certain point, be that ten hits or ten thousand. D:

Has anyone done the math to find out? ._.

[Mira]

From personal experce, I find that using Panic once you have 5 orbs does more damage over time. I may be wrong, but it seems like that to me. ^^

Edit: It depends on what DMG panic does, also. It can do like 19k or 33k, so it really can vary, I guess.

[PieM4ster]

Going the Panic route from my experience is better unless you have Brandish. Does slightly higher DPS.

[solid_ice8]

yeah i agree too, panic is the way to go until you get brandish @ 120+

[wobbufet]

In my opinion it's best to use panic at bosses until you get Advanced Combo. Once you have AC it's just not worth it to lose that extra brandish damage for a panic.

[Hazzy]

I know most peope prefer Panic, but as anyone sat down and crunched the numbers? o.0

[Cardboardsnail]

Spam panic definitely

But not with 1 orb...that'll be kinda weak

[wobbufet]

I know most peope prefer Panic, but as anyone sat down and crunched the numbers? o.0

Why would power strike be stronger? It doesn't really make sense to me to be honest :confused:

[Hazzy]

Why would power strike be stronger? It doesn't really make sense to me to be honest :confused:

Let's look at the average damage per fix hits. If you spam Panic, it's:
0 orb
1 orb
2 orb
3 orb
4 orb
Panic

I'm not completely sure how to calculate the damage done, but let's call the average of those value "P" *Panic Average. xP*

Now if we find the average of Spamming Power Strike, it would look like this:
0 orb
1 orb
2 orb
3 orb
4 orb
5 orb

Let's say the average for that is "N" *No-pani Average*

The Average damage Panic-Spamming does will not change, it will remain at the value of P. However, after each Power Strike, P will approach the Damage Boost of 5 Orbs + Power Strike, just like if you average the numbers 1-5, then keep adding 5 to it and re-calculating the average hit.

Average of 1~5 is 3.
Average of 1~5+5 is 3.3
Average of 1~5+5+5 is 3.57, and so forth. The same would apply to the damage, and it should pass-up Panic Spamming at some point. That point might be at Seven or Eight hits, or it might be at a thousand. :/

How2calc. Damage pls. xP

[wobbufet]

I believe that simply 5x PS + 1 panic > 6x fully charged PS. Or that's what I always assumed.

[Hazzy]

I believe that simply 5x PS + 1 panic > 6x fully charged PS. Or that's what I always assumed.

It does. But what's larger?
500x PS + 100 Panics, or 1 Orb dmg +2 Orb dmg + 3 Orb dmg + 4 Orb dmg + 595 Fully Charge PS?

Anyone know how Damage is calculated with Orbs? ._.

[wobbufet]

According to my math brain it's still the same. 5x PS (starting from 0 orbs) + 1x Panic > 6x charged up PS

[Hazzy]

How exactly is damage calculated with Orbs? ._.

[wobbufet]

How exactly is damage calculated with Orbs? ._.

I believe it has not been figured out yet exactly. I suppose every orb has it's own multiplyer but I don't know the numbers.

[Hazzy]

I'ma look on Sleepywood, I'm sure I've seen something there. D:

Ohyea, I remember this threadlol.
http://sleepywood.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1456326&highlight=combo+damage


Panic (5 hits plus Panic, typical charge up)
2.60 + 3.12 + 3.25 + 3.38 + 3.51 + 12.25 = 2811%

NO Panic (6 hits with 5 orbs charged)
3.64 + 3.64 + 3.64 + 3.64 + 3.64 + 3.64 = 2184%

:(

[Cardboardsnail]

I'ma look on Sleepywood, I'm sure I've seen something there. D:

Ohyea, I remember this threadlol.
http://sleepywood.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1456326&highlight=combo+damage


Panic (5 hits plus Panic, typical charge up)
2.60 + 3.12 + 3.25 + 3.38 + 3.51 + 12.25 = 2811%

NO Panic (6 hits with 5 orbs charged)
3.64 + 3.64 + 3.64 + 3.64 + 3.64 + 3.64 = 2184%

:(


That's a pretty big difference.

[wobbufet]

I'ma look on Sleepywood, I'm sure I've seen something there. D:

Ohyea, I remember this threadlol.
http://sleepywood.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1456326&highlight=combo+damage


Panic (5 hits plus Panic, typical charge up)
2.60 + 3.12 + 3.25 + 3.38 + 3.51 + 12.25 = 2811%

NO Panic (6 hits with 5 orbs charged)
3.64 + 3.64 + 3.64 + 3.64 + 3.64 + 3.64 = 2184%

:(

So there you have it, charging up + Panic simply always beats spamming PS. Until 4th job that is, but that's a whole different story :p

[Hazzy]

So there you have it, charging up + Panic simply always beats spamming PS. Until 4th job that is, but that's a whole different story :p

Ok, let's start on that. :P
What level Brandish is more effective than spamming Panic/PS?

[wobbufet]

Ok, let's start on that. :P
What level Brandish is more effective than spamming Panic/PS?

I guess you mean at what level brandish > brandish/panic, right? :p

And I really wouldn't know, I'm no expert on heroes/crusaders T_T

[Hazzy]

I guess you mean at what level brandish > brandish/panic, right? :p

And I really wouldn't know, I'm no expert on heroes/crusaders T_T

That, or what I said, which ever one's first.

[Cardboardsnail]

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that it's level 10

I can't guarantee anything though

[Tiffany]

From what I see in Zakum and Papulatus, crusaders spam Panic once they reach 5 orbs.

[Silver_ice]

uh... u cannot spam panic. panic only works once ur orbs are charged therefore spamming it is impossible.

and u do more dmg over time by charging 5 orbs then casting panic. this changes once u get brandish cause brandish is much stronger/faster.

[Retalion]

I would say that at bosses, charging orbs + panic would be better than Power strike with full orbs as many of the bosses out there dispel. Then again, the statistics prove that orbs + panic does more damage.

Mushmom, zmm, bmm, jrog, etc: Not enough hp to really matter. By the time you charge up your orbs, they're dead.

Papulatus/Left Fish/Manon and Griffey: Dispel so your PS damage would be even lower as you constantly have to recharge.

[Hazzy]

It's established that Spamming Panic is faster than Power Strike, but when does Brandish Spam out-damage Brandish+Panic Spam? D:

[Mira]

It's established that Spamming Panic is faster than Power Strike, but when does Brandish Spam out-damage Brandish+Panic Spam? D:

Over lvl 10, I think. ^^

[Ranylyn]

Logic to all 4th job skills: 99999 damage is the max per hit with a few exceptions. Therefore, skills that hit multiple times are always the best in the end because 2 hits of 50000 = 100000 damage from one skill, which the powerful single strike 99999 is unable to attain. This is the logic people use in saying Spear DK > PADK, this is the logic people use when they say NL > Archmage, etc. Simple fact of the matter is that ultimately, it comes down to what hits more than once.

As for WHEN Brandish becomes more powerful, people are saying level 10, but I have a few questions. First, AC has a percentage chance of not using up the combo orbs when using Panic or Coma, right? How high is that percentage? Because if you go AC first before Brandish, you could semi spam Coma/ Panic (As in, use them repeatedly instead of charging) which would be far superior to Brandish until you're hitting much higher numbers. This would likely be ideal for mobbier maps such as himes, because Coma hits 6 while Brandish only hits 3. I'm no Hero expert, hell, I play a page, but this is just me analyzing what I thnk I know.

[wobbufet]

I'm fairly certain that nobody will add points into AC before brandish, because of brandish superior speed and damage. I've also heard before that brandish was better to spam from lvl 4 but I seem to have lost the thread.

[Pyroticwater]

Panic, until you get advanced combo and/or brandish
Panic will give higher dps until you get those

[Stereo]

Logic to all 4th job skills: 99999 damage is the max per hit with a few exceptions. Therefore, skills that hit multiple times are always the best in the end because 2 hits of 50000 = 100000 damage from one skill, which the powerful single strike 99999 is unable to attain. This is the logic people use in saying Spear DK > PADK, this is the logic people use when they say NL > Archmage, etc. Simple fact of the matter is that ultimately, it comes down to what hits more than once.


Spear vs. PA is honestly more a matter of Berserk - it's very difficult to find maps where you can run Fury on mobs of 4-6 while keeping under the 35% HP but still give good exp, and on smaller mobs (1-3) Crusher does more damage than Fury can.

If there were a monster like Himes (hp/exp/spawnwise) but only did about 1k damage, then they would suit PA DKs a whole lot better. It's not easy avoiding monster damage when you're trying to keep Berserk up, the best way to do it is to be killing the monsters in 2 hits without running into them, and that doesn't fit well with the idea of mobbing (as at Himes - you run to the ends of the map collecting monsters, kill them in a group)


The damage cap is definitely a concern for Hero/Paladin, though - Panic and Blast (especially with Apples) are hitting the 100k damage cap a high percentage of the time, and that excessive damage is wasted. From mid 14x, most Paladins with maxed Blast can hit 100k with an Apple, and it just goes from there. Panic does about 50% more than Blast (with Advanced Combo), so it happens even earlier.

[Hero]

Let's keep it simple.

5 Powerstrikes followed with Panic results in slightly more damage then using Powerstrike all the time.

As for 4th job, once you get Lv7 Brandish, it replaces powerstrike. So it's only natural to asume spamming Brandish once it's Lv7 is the better DPM.

As for AC, AC also boosts finisher damage so that's hardly an arguement. :f3:

[xCenario]

There is no need to calculate each hit to see that 5x PS + Panic is better than 6x PS, since that Panic will be stronger than that last PS. Eventhough you may say: "But the next 5 hits of the 6x PS will mantain at its maximum point and will overpass the Panic one", Wrong. The Panic will continue to hit and the difference already marked by that Panic - PS will mantain so everytime, that difference will be increasing, yet decreasing during the process of hits again.

For example, lets say you do 99k with panic, and 18k with max 5 orbs PS:

The first 5 orbs hypothetically saying will be:

7k - 10k - 13k - 15k - 18k, making that: 63k For both Panic round and PS round.

Now if you do the Panic after that, 99k will be: 63k + 99k = 162k. And counting the next 5 hits before the next panic is 162k + 63k = 225k.

Now the Power Strike, those 63k + 18k (6x PS) = 81k. plus next 5 18k = 90k, 81k + 90k = 171k.

225k > 171k.

However, I dont think a lvl below 120 will do 99k per Panic, but again this is just my hypothesis. A difference will still mantain.

[Hero]

There is no need to calculate each hit to see that 5x PS + Panic is better than 6x PS, since that Panic will be stronger than that last PS. Eventhough you may say: "But the next 5 hits of the 6x PS will mantain at its maximum point and will overpass the Panic one", Wrong. The Panic will continue to hit and the difference already marked by that Panic - PS will mantain so everytime, that difference will be increasing, yet decreasing during the process of hits again.

For example, lets say you do 99k with panic, and 18k with max 5 orbs PS:

The first 5 orbs hypothetically saying will be:

7k - 10k - 13k - 15k - 18k, making that: 63k For both Panic round and PS round.

Now if you do the Panic after that, 99k will be: 63k + 99k = 162k. And counting the next 5 hits before the next panic is 162k + 63k = 225k.

Now the Power Strike, those 63k + 18k (6x PS) = 81k. plus next 5 18k = 90k, 81k + 90k = 171k.

225k > 171k.

However, I dont think a lvl below 120 will do 99k per Panic, but again this is just my hypothesis. A difference will still mantain.

To get a 99k panic you'd be on the same wavelength as doing 33k powerstrikes, during 2nd job. Which is highly unlikely.

Point is, crusader DPM is very low and unstable because they depend on their panic hits to get their biggest boost. And, panic being incredibly unstable as any crusader knows, it sucks.