[1.2.374] Monster Park?

[Fiel]

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Most of this patch was just bugfixes, but there was something that stood out to me. This image:

http://www.happychinchilla.info/Southperry/patch/general/MonsterPark.png

I know, I know, it has the same image as the Monster Carnival. But they didn't change or remove the Monster Carnival map mark but they added this one called "MonsterPark"?

I also did a search through all map marks set in the maps, and there are currently no maps that use this map mark either in KMS or KMST. There are also no map names added to the WZ files which would provide a clue as to what this is. No mobs, no nothing. Just this singular image.

So, could we perhaps see another rendition of the Monster Carnival? What do you guys think?

Can someone check the patch notes?

[LuxAeterna]

What do I think hmmm i wanna know where does Spieglemen keep getting these monsters from lol but seriously i wonder if this "monster park" will be an actual training map like golden temple is now

[Takebacker]

Sounds like lower level content fodder. Snore.

[Tobiaz]

The first thing I thought was a KMS-version of the Malaysia Fantasy Theme Park area.

[Illam]

So... in one patch, they only added a new MapMark? Nothing else? OMG.

[Fiel]

So... in one patch, they only added a new MapMark? Nothing else? OMG.

I did say bugfixes, you skimmer you.

[Illam]

I did say bugfixes, you skimmer you.

Yes... I know... I said something new.

[Ryukiroku]

Considering the way how monsters flow now, I would hope by this time they'd consider a higher lever CPQ.

[Tay]

Something like CPQ I'd assume, Nexon hasn't made a pointless PQ in a while.

[¬Rob]

I read the title and thought of the Cody's Theme Park we were promised. :f4:

[Shadows]

Wow...weird:goggle:

[Fius]

Title made me think of something Pokémon like o: Although a new CPQ version would be kinda neat. Maybe a bit more of "Income wars" instead of the old styled CPQs we have now :>

[BandanaBoy]

so, not Just bug fixes eh?
The Plot deepens o:

I look forward to the next patch info =)
BB~

[xAyakoCx]

Maybe a higher leveled version of CPQ? :/ As in 120+?

[Takebacker]

120+ CPQ wouldn't even be used because at that point LHC training would beat it for exp and the only other reason would be some kind of reward. It'd be a waste of development time imo.

[Fiel]

No doubt that LHC would beat it, but it'd be a good way to take a break from LHC grind. What do 120+ members have to do save for bossing and grinding? Having a few PQs at that range defeats the monotony.

[Fatalzxc]

replacement of nett's pyramid?

[Link]

No doubt that LHC would beat it, but it'd be a good way to take a break from LHC grind. What do 120+ members have to do save for bossing and grinding? Having a few PQs at that range defeats the monotony.

And PVP.

[kremechoko]

oh jeebus please be a higher lvl PQ thing.
I'm sick of them making low level crap.

[Sarah]

I'm hoping it'll be a replacement for the monster book. Personal "Monster Parks" that fill up as you defeat / capture monsters. Inside would be areas for specific monsters and they'd have little signs that you could learn about the monster.

I know. I dream.

[xAyakoCx]

I'm hoping it'll be a replacement for the monster book. Personal "Monster Parks" that fill up as you defeat / capture monsters. Inside would be areas for specific monsters and they'd have little signs that you could learn about the monster.

I know. I dream.

Othewise that would be a monster zoo?

[Sarah]

Othewise that would be a monster zoo?

No, they could roam free like the aquarium.

They did this in Dragon Quest VII. It was awesome.

[-Ghost-]

120+ CPQ wouldn't even be used because at that point LHC training would beat it for exp and the only other reason would be some kind of reward. It'd be a waste of development time imo.

>Assuming you know how much EXP this could possibly give
>Also assuming it's a PQ

[Lozmaster]

inb4 70-90 cpq.
I don't see it having an upper limit of anything over 120, if it is another CPQ.

[Kirov]

I would like to get excited about a new CPQ. It was fun when it was first released but then comes the inevitable game rigging for exp. Seems no one plays Maplestory for fun.

But I’ll take anything at this point. Sure has been quiet on the KMS front lately.

[Dark Link]

I read the title and thought of the Cody's Theme Park we were promised. :f4:

That's what I thought too lol
"Cody's Theme Park"
"Monster Park"

Possible coincidence.

[Snor]

This is exactly what they want us to do! They place a single image in the extractions and let us think of some awesome content. Then they browse this thread and develop it. If there's nothing they like, they remove the image and revert to the previous things.


Anyone else reading fairytales?:f1:

[Nesso]

Is Cody's theme park FINALLY coming out?

[Takebacker]

>Assuming you know how much EXP this could possibly give
>Also assuming it's a PQ


Quoting the wrong person bro.

It's cute that you tried to cut down literally 100% concentrated speculation though.

[SwordStaker]

Is Cody's theme park FINALLY coming out?
I thought Cody's Theme Park was part of Masteria though 0.o

[Raph589]

I'm hoping it'll be a replacement for the monster book. Personal "Monster Parks" that fill up as you defeat / capture monsters. Inside would be areas for specific monsters and they'd have little signs that you could learn about the monster.

I know. I dream.

I thought of a system like that too, but that"d look like monster hunter a bit. You get quests, like hunt x monster or capture x monster. They'd be bosses that would require a certain strategy to beat/capture. That sure would be fun...

[VirgilDiablo]

i feel like the image is just a placeholder

[maplefreak26]

i feel like the image is just a placeholder

This.

[FoolsLove]

Spadow posted a small update about it, and seems he doesn't know anything either, so it's just one of those things we have to wait for more patches to come, to see what it is.

[Toastyc12]

I'm hoping it'll be a replacement for the monster book. Personal "Monster Parks" that fill up as you defeat / capture monsters. Inside would be areas for specific monsters and they'd have little signs that you could learn about the monster.

I know. I dream.

As I was reading this, I immediately thought of the Museum feature in Yoshi's Island DS.

[Viaje]

120+ CPQ wouldn't even be used because at that point LHC training would beat it for exp and the only other reason would be some kind of reward. It'd be a waste of development time imo.
How do you automatically come to that conclusion?
Speculation is one thing. Saying "LHC training would beat it for exp" isn't a speculative statement.

That said, a 120+ PQ would be a waste of development time because there's simply no need for it.
A 100-120 PQ, however, would be very nice.

Let's remember that, at one point, CPQ was the best training around.
Then again, they screwed the pooch on CPQ2 (and never bothered to make it usable).

[Takebacker]

PvP isn't faster exp than training, and neither would it. >.> Nexon will not just up and replace the fastest training spot available with a PQ. When is the last time that happened?

[yo72]

Let's remember that, at one point, CPQ was the best training around.On 1x
Then again, they screwed the pooch on CPQ2 (and never bothered to make it usable).
Correction

[FoolsLove]

PvP isn't faster exp than training, and neither would it. >.> Nexon will not just up and replace the fastest training spot available with a PQ. When is the last time that happened?

That's not the point though. The point being made was that it would be a break from the monotony of grinding, whether the EXP was better or not is irrelevant. Most people don't like sticking to one spot for a very long time and a higher level PQ and PvP would be nice breaks from it. I know I will be doing PvP quite a bit myself when it comes. It looks fun.


Let's remember that, at one point, CPQ was the best training around.

CPQ is still faster than regular training

[Viaje]

Correction
Hurrfailcorrection.

There was no better experience than trade wins with max Rombot summons. Ever.
For reference, Rombots gave 720 exp, meaning you'd only need to kill 84 to get more than 60k exp.
Why 60k?
Well, because that would mean you got more than double the experience that you would for just winning with A rank.

That's on 1x.
Would you like me to do the math for 2x?


PvP isn't faster exp than training, and neither would it. >.> Nexon will not just up and replace the fastest training spot available with a PQ. When is the last time that happened?
One example does not proof make. The unoccurance of an event is not proof that it cannot occur.
And I can think of several times it happened... CPQ being one of them.
Ludi PQ used to be better experience than training.
Then there was Maze PQ.
Then Pirate PQ
Then Ghost Ship PQ.

Or maybe you mean to say that they've never so quickly replaced a training area?

[Viaje]

Correction
Hurrfailcorrection.

There was no better experience than trade wins with max Rombot summons. Ever.
For reference, Rombots gave 720 exp, meaning you'd only need to kill 84 to get more than 60k exp.
Why 60k?
Well, because that would mean you got more than double the experience that you would for just winning with A rank.

That's on 1x.
Would you like me to do the math for 2x?


PvP isn't faster exp than training, and neither would it. >.> Nexon will not just up and replace the fastest training spot available with a PQ. When is the last time that happened?
One example does not proof make. The unoccurance of an event is not proof that it cannot occur.
And I can think of several times it happened... CPQ being one of them.
Ludi PQ used to be better experience than training.
Then there was Maze PQ.
Then Pirate PQ
Then Ghost Ship PQ.

Or maybe you mean to say that they've never so quickly replaced a training area?

[yo72]

There was no better experience than trade wins with max Rombot summons. Ever.
For reference, Rombots gave 720 exp, meaning you'd only need to kill 84 to get more than 60k exp.
Why 60k?
Well, because that would mean you got more than double the experience that you would for just winning with A rank.

That's on 1x.
Would you like me to do the math for 2x?


One example does not proof make. The unoccurance of an event is not proof that it cannot occur.
And I can think of several times it happened... CPQ being one of them.
Ludi PQ used to be better experience than training.
Then there was Maze PQ.
Then Pirate PQ
Then Ghost Ship PQ.

Or maybe you mean to say that they've never so quickly replaced a training area?
You obviously never pg leeched...
Just checked and cpq Rombots were only about 300 exp each

[Viaje]

You obviously never pg leeched...
Just checked and cpq Rombots were only about 300 exp each
Nope. Didn't have any high level friends nor did I intend to pay to level. Don't really classify leeching as training.
I prefered the free route that didn't rely on chance of availability and the risk of being KSed or DCed.

Seems like they actually gave 450. My mistake in assuming they were the same as normal.
Party of two with a leecher = 360 (8:2) + 36 (10% party) = 390
Making 154 Rombots for more than 60k exp. Still pretty sure I could do that in under 10min.

[Takebacker]

One example does not proof make. The unoccurance of an event is not proof that it cannot occur.
And I can think of several times it happened... CPQ being one of them.
Ludi PQ used to be better experience than training.
Then there was Maze PQ.
Then Pirate PQ
Then Ghost Ship PQ.

Or maybe you mean to say that they've never so quickly replaced a training area?

Sure let's abandon the high level model that this game has had since the beginning.

In that last post when i said the "fastest training spot available", i was referring to the fastest training spot available for [i]end/mid game levels[/b]. Those silly PQs were designed for low levels, because leveling used to be tough as s'hit for the majority. For high levels, which since we're going off my speculations, the imaginary 120+ CPQesque PQ would have to compete with LHC in exp gain. A PQ being faster than training for 120+ characters has been unheard of in this game, and that certainly isn't going to change out of nowhere.

Also, i'm kind of sick of this discussion already. We have no proof for any of this right now so speculating over it when stuff like this happens is just annoying.

[Valon]

Actually for some characters, CWK PQ is faster than training...though im not sure if this is intended. Regardless, I think what Viaje is saying is that when each of those PQs came out, the majority of players were at the level of that PQ, CPQ was a little late but LPQ was swamped with people back during its release. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised at all if a 90-120 or even a 120-140 PQ were to be released. At this stage however, anything that speeds up the 110-120 would be ideal.


"Getting to a high level in MS pre-BB is like being a world war II vet. You don't know the s'hit we've seen man!"


In my experience 14x+ is getting to be much more of a bitch post Big Bang, although I guess that depends on what you consider high level. it takes me 6-7 hours to level at 150, something i couldve achieved in 3-4 pre BB with 2x and one days supply of family EXP buffs.

At this point in the game it really seems like the majority of players are peaking at 100-140, and the 150 barrier is a hard one to break. It took me 6 chars to do it. I can certainly foresee more PQs in this range coming up, based on the trend Nexon has set so far.

[Takebacker]

In my experience 14x+ is getting to be much more of a bitch post Big Bang, although I guess that depends on what you consider high level. it takes me 6-7 hours to level at 150, something i couldve achieved in 3-4 pre BB with 2x and one days supply of family EXP buffs.

At this point in the game it really seems like the majority of players are peaking at 100-140, and the 150 barrier is a hard one to break. It took me 6 chars to do it. I can certainly foresee more PQs in this range coming up, based on the trend Nexon has set so far.

I've leveled 5 times on post-BB 163-168 curve faster than it took me to level from 140-150 on the pre-BB curve, and the total exp difference for those levels is like 250m exp less or so? I really can't imagine how easy it is to do those levels now especially with LHC coming out in 28ish hours.

[Viaje]

Sure let's abandon the high level model that this game has had since the beginning.
Are you playing the same Maplestory I am? Because the one I play has never focused on end-game.


In that last post when i said the "fastest training spot available", i was referring to the fastest training spot available for [i]end/mid game levels[/b]. Those silly PQs were designed for low levels, because leveling used to be tough as s'hit for the majority. For high levels, which since we're going off my speculations, the imaginary 120+ CPQesque PQ would have to compete with LHC in exp gain. A PQ being faster than training for 120+ characters has been unheard of in this game, and that certainly isn't going to change out of nowhere.
See previous "An event not occurring is not evidence that it cannot/will not occur."
Of course a PQ being faster than training for 120+ characters has never been seen in this game.
Newsflash: There is currently no PQ designed for 120+ characters!
Just like there was once no PQ for 50+ characters. Then Maze PQ appeared "out of nowhere."

Your argument is pretty much "it doesn't exist yet, so it'd be ridiculous to think it will exist."
I've heard that argument a lot referring to PvP, but we all saw how that worked out.


Also, i'm kind of sick of this discussion already. We have no proof for any of this right now so speculating over it when stuff like this happens is just annoying.
Glad we agree, but I'm afraid that makes you a masochist seeing as you're the one who first posted such bold speculation.

[Takebacker]

Are you playing the same Maplestory I am? Because the one I play has never focused on end-game.

Did i say they did? Did i say anything about neglect? I remember saying that there is a set MODEL, PLAN, etc 4th job has used and it has not changed to make PQs the primary source of experience.


See previous "An event not occurring is not evidence that it cannot/will not occur."
Of course a PQ being faster than training for 120+ characters has never been seen in this game.
Newsflash: There is currently no PQ designed for 120+ characters!
Just like there was once no PQ for 50+ characters. Then Maze PQ appeared "out of nowhere."

Your argument is pretty much "it doesn't exist yet, so it'd be ridiculous to think it will exist."
I've heard that argument a lot referring to PvP, but we all saw how that worked out.

Want me to reverse it and say "An event not occurring is not evidence that it will occur"? Refer to Appeal to probability (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_probability). You're saying it CAN happen because it HASN'T happened? That's not a guarantee at all...

GMS has plenty of 120+ designed PQs, but you keep shifting the argument between GMS and KMS. Which version do you want to stick to? Because KMS doesn't have ludi maze PQ, and now neither do we.

No, my argument is not anything to do with something existing or not. It is about what would result from it existing. Two different concepts. My point is that Nexon Korea would be stupid to replace LHC so quickly if this completely imaginary godly exp PQ is about to be released.


Glad we agree, but I'm afraid that makes you a masochist seeing as you're the one who first posted such bold speculation.

ASJROAWNETAKLENTYAIERNATOJINASDR

Might i direct you the post that originally started any kind of 120+ CPQ discussion? (http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=40791&p=675948&viewfull=1#post675948)

How about the post that even incited any kind of argument over an imaginary and completely irrelevant implication? (http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=40791&p=676619&viewfull=1#post676619) You seriously might as well go into mapleadditions and start getting into fuming arguments with them over their ideas, because that's basically what you've been doing up till now...

I don't even believe speculation is even meant to be argued against because it's literally based on shaky evidence and pure ideals, not to mention i'm not a korean developer. >.>

Also, growing tired of an argument does not make me a masochist for posting it. What kind of pain/pleasure am i getting out of this? Or should i call you a sadist and bring on even more ad hominyms? Good job egging on another response when i clearly stated i'm done with this though.

[Viaje]

Did i say they did? Did i say anything about neglect? I remember saying that there is a set MODEL, PLAN, etc 4th job has used and it has not changed to make PQs the primary source of experience.
No, what you said was what I quoted. However, you went into no explanation as to what exactly the "high level model" was, leading me only to make speculation and assumptions.

And, again, it has changed many times in the past.


Want me to reverse it and say "An event not occurring is not evidence that it will occur"? Refer to Appeal to probability (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_probability). You're saying it CAN happen because it HASN'T happened? That's not a guarantee at all...
Please don't grasp for straws.
Yes, feel free to reverse it. That's perfectly fine, but it has nothing to do with my argument. I'm not saying it will happen; I'm saying it could happen. Or have you not been following along?

It's rather hilarious that you're citing "appeal to probability" when you're the one invoking it.
May wanna read that bit about "A second form of the appeal to probability is the appeal to improbability or an appeal to impossibility in which the odds of an occurrence are drastically downplayed in order to bolster an insecure position or brush aside something that is problematic. This form of the appeal often applies to circumstances where the actual odds are not known."

My argument has not once been that this is or that there will ever be a 120+ PQ that outpaces training.
I've simply been saying that it could be. Therefore, my stance has been "because something could happen, it could happen". Where's the logical fallacy there?


GMS has plenty of 120+ designed PQs, but you keep shifting the argument between GMS and KMS. Which version do you want to stick to? Because KMS doesn't have ludi maze PQ, and now neither do we.
I have not once specifically mentioned either version, so I couldn't have been shifting my argument.
I would, however, love to see a list of these multiple PQs designed for 120+. Only one that comes to mind is VPQ, but that was an event PQ that didn't even give experience for completion.


No, my argument is not anything to do with something existing or not. It is about what would result from it existing. Two different concepts. My point is that Nexon Korea would be stupid to replace LHC so quickly if this completely imaginary godly exp PQ is about to be released.
Not if it was simply an alternative, not a replacement.



ASJROAWNETAKLENTYAIERNATOJINASDR

Might i direct you the post that originally started any kind of 120+ CPQ discussion? (http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=40791&p=675948&viewfull=1#post675948)
She questioned nothing more than what it was. You're the one who went and assumed that the experience would be terrible and all other sorts of things.



How about the post that even incited any kind of argument over an imaginary and completely irrelevant implication? (http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=40791&p=676619&viewfull=1#post676619) You seriously might as well go into mapleadditions and start getting into fuming arguments with them over their ideas, because that's basically what you've been doing up till now...
I have no idea what mapleadditions is, but I'm not really interested in that.
It is funny that you think I've done anything in this thread that you have not. I just haven't said that I find it annoying.



I don't even believe speculation is even meant to be argued against because it's literally based on shaky evidence and pure ideals, not to mention i'm not a korean developer. >.>
And yet, you argued against that original post? Still not understanding it.



Also, growing tired of an argument does not make me a masochist for posting it. What kind of pain/pleasure am i getting out of this? Or should i call you a sadist and bring on even more ad hominyms? Good job egging on another response when i clearly stated i'm done with this though.
No, but starting and continuing a speculative argument when you believe "so speculating over it when stuff like this happens is just annoying."

I argued against your original post because there is a difference between speculation and fantasy. Namely, that speculation should be rooted in something.

I do agree that we've veered far from the original matter though, so we can end it here if you'd like.
Don't really intend to have an ongoing discussion about a completely theoretical matter in an extraction thread.
Not worth the energy.

[KhainiWest]

No, what you said was what I quoted. However, you went into no explanation as to what exactly the "high level model" was, leading me only to make speculation and assumptions.

And, again, it has changed many times in the past.


Please don't grasp for straws.
Yes, feel free to reverse it. That's perfectly fine, but it has nothing to do with my argument. I'm not saying it will happen; I'm saying it could happen. Or have you not been following along?

It's rather hilarious that you're citing "appeal to probability" when you're the one invoking it.
May wanna read that bit about "A second form of the appeal to probability is the appeal to improbability or an appeal to impossibility in which the odds of an occurrence are drastically downplayed in order to bolster an insecure position or brush aside something that is problematic. This form of the appeal often applies to circumstances where the actual odds are not known."

My argument has not once been that this is or that there will ever be a 120+ PQ that outpaces training.
I've simply been saying that it could be. Therefore, my stance has been "because something could happen, it could happen". Where's the logical fallacy there?


I have not once specifically mentioned either version, so I couldn't have been shifting my argument.
I would, however, love to see a list of these multiple PQs designed for 120+. Only one that comes to mind is VPQ, but that was an event PQ that didn't even give experience for completion.


Not if it was simply an alternative, not a replacement.



She questioned nothing more than what it was. You're the one who went and assumed that the experience would be terrible and all other sorts of things.



I have no idea what mapleadditions is, but I'm not really interested in that.
It is funny that you think I've done anything in this thread that you have not. I just haven't said that I find it annoying.



And yet, you argued against that original post? Still not understanding it.



No, but starting and continuing a speculative argument when you believe "so speculating over it when stuff like this happens is just annoying."

I argued against your original post because there is a difference between speculation and fantasy. Namely, that speculation should be rooted in something.

I do agree that we've veered far from the original matter though, so we can end it here if you'd like.
Don't really intend to have an ongoing discussion about a completely theoretical matter in an extraction thread.
Not worth the energy.

Haha how cute, instead of spreading your delightfully charming personality on basil, you come to SP too spread your bull shit lol.

Anyway the speculation is a hypthosis, which is based off patterns that our devolopers have been using as a foundation since day one. You're just looking for an illogical fight as it takes a little bit of common sense to see the reasoning behind his statement.

[Viaje]

Haha how cute, instead of spreading your delightfully charming personality on basil, you come to SP too spread your bull pomegranate lol.
What a rebuttal that was. Allow me to bow before your brilliance.
Sorry that I apparently kicked in one of your sandcastles while stomping around on Basil.
Seeing as I have no clue who you are, I can't really tell if an apology is in order.


Anyway the speculation is a hypthosis, which is based off patterns that our devolopers have been using as a foundation since day one. You're just looking for an illogical fight as it takes a little bit of common sense to see the reasoning behind his statement.
Whose speculation? Takebackers? Because it couldn't be.
A hypothesis is an explanation for a phenomena, not a prediction of one.

All semantics aside, the developers have demonstrated no pattern in their release of new content other than frequency.

I'm not looking for a fight; I just didn't appreciate him shooting down the idea with an absolute statement where there could be no absolute. However, I'm not sure that someone who stomps in with personal insults has any room to say who is looking for a fight.

PS: To quote yourself - "It's ignorant to shut down any possibility when it clearly exists."

[KhainiWest]

What a rebuttal that was. Allow me to bow before your brilliance.
Sorry that I apparently kicked in one of your sandcastles while stomping around on Basil.
Seeing as I have no clue who you are, I can't really tell if an apology is in order.

It's your sandcastle I knocked over. Sorry that you couldn't get the attention you were craving for.



Whose speculation? Takebackers? Because it couldn't be.
A hypothesis is an explanation for a phenomena, not a prediction of one.

I'm sorry but are you really trying to seem so bullheaded you can't even see past your horns?

a proposition, or set of propositions, set forth as an explanation for the occurrence of some specified group of phenomena, either asserted merely as a provisional conjecture to guide investigation (working hypothesis) or accepted as highly probable in the light of established facts.
2.
a proposition assumed as a premise in an argument.
3.
the antecedent of a conditional proposition.
4.
a mere assumption or guess.

See the last bit? A hypothesis is by no means an answer. If you are able, once again, apply some common sense to the subject, his statement, which by all means I'd place money on, is that the new PQ will not be beneficial exp wise, based on past experiences, and the illogical conclusion that after releasing leons castle, a 140-16x+ zone, a 120 pq would by any means surpass that in exp wise.


All semantics aside, the developers have demonstrated no pattern in their release of new content other than frequency.

Okay I'll bite, how many PQ's are beneficial exp wise? Pirate pq and CPQ. How many pq's are there? Yeah.


I'm not looking for a fight; I just didn't appreciate him shooting down the idea with an absolute statement where there could be no absolute. However, I'm not sure that someone who stomps in with personal insults has any room to say who is looking for a fight.

You read too deep into his words and he simply was backing up his statement. And pretty hypocritical, I would quote every single derogative you've posted in the last 2 pages, but I don't think the webpage could handle it.


PS: To quote yourself - "It's ignorant to shut down any possibility when it clearly exists."

Since you like quoting me maybe you can quote where I'm ignorant of the possibility? I'm simply defending his statement as a clear logical one based on the circumstances. In other words, your nitpicking a very plausible statement and being an antagonistic asshat about it. Sorry though I could make it a lil clearer for you since you've never been one to catch on to what's between the lines.