BM Skills 150+

[Allen]

So you've mastered Sharp Eyes, Bow Expert, Hurricane, where do you go from here? Do you go for concentrate assuming you are invited to HT runs and can get concentrate 30? Do you go for phoenix, it actually affects your dps substantially. Do you go for hamstring, slowing monsters gives you an edge while training. Do you go for MW?

I'm thinking about 150+ and from what I've seen, concentrate can just be substituted with an attack pot right? Phoenix is just pure damage but you need to get closer to your target to keep phoenix in range. Hamstring is only helpful when you're training and mobs get too close, not really prominent in bossing. Maple warrior is not really necessary if I'm always training with someone who already has MW20. So what should I do?

[FelixTM]

MW -> Phoenix/Concentration -> Dragon's Breath -> Who cares

Personally, I went with Phoenix first. I feel it's a much better choice. You're going to notice its effects much more. Plus, you'll feel cooler with your pro birdy. Trust me!

Hamstring's gay. Like...wth? Don't even consider that crap until you're done with your good skills.

And you don't need to HT to get Concentrate30. F3 It's a crap book, and it's uber cheap and/or free, regardless.

[Allen]

I was considering phoenix at 15x. I don't really see how concentrate is that great. someone please provide a supporting argument for getting concentrate.

[Dusk]

Shouldn't you get DB to 21 first, for 6 targets?

[Bravedancing]

At lvl 157, I have 9 MW and 12 Concentrate. One more level and I'll get Concentrate to 15 and try to pass Concentrate 30.

:heart: I flipping love Concentrate. At my current level 12 it's 2 minutes of +17 attack. A cider is 3 minutes of +20 attack. (An NLC warrior pot is only +12 att for 8 minutes.)

With the 6 minute cool-down, I have 2 minutes of concentrate (+17), 3 minutes of cider (+20), then a minute of nothing. Or... 2 min Concentrate, use 2 ciders, then recast.

Once I get Concentrate to 21, it's 3 minutes of +21 att (up to +26 with maxed Concentrate). Three minutes pairs perfectly with a cider, since the cider runs out just as soon as Concentrate can be recast.

The only problem with ciders is that they don't stack in your inventory, but for Angeo, pap, or zakum arms, you can usually find enough space for a good supply, assuming your inventory isn't cluttered up with unneeded stuff. With Concentrate at 3 minutes, 10 ciders will last you an hour instead of 30 minutes.

[FelixTM]

Shouldn't you get DB to 21 first, for 6 targets?

Practically worthless. 6-target DB is much more useful for MM, not really so much for BM. I could literally count the number of times I've been like, "Oh shoot, I wish my DB hit 6 targets" on my fingers. It rarely ever happens, especially once you adjust to killing everything so fast that mobbing becomes a waste of time (which is when you'll be 150+ lol).

[Dusk]

Practically worthless. 6-target DB is much more useful for MM, not really so much for BM. I could literally count the number of times I've been like, "Oh shoot, I wish my DB hit 6 targets" on my fingers. It rarely ever happens, especially once you adjust to killing everything so fast that mobbing becomes a waste of time (which is when you'll be 150+ lol).

Makes sense. *waits for stronger mobs*

Hopefully fire-weak.

[Icedfire]

the only real application for hamstring is mobile bosses, like anego, crow and BF. i haven't noticed if it even works on them. it SHOULD, but i don't think it does, unlike a mage's slow.

i'm heavily leaning towards phoenix. i'd honestly forget about concentrate if i had it, i don't use atk pots while training anyway. on the flip side, i can't remember the last time i trained without something flying above my shoulders.

15X you'll be killing so fast that ham won't even get to really work, and mob size will almost never exceed 5 for a bowmaster. i'm in the same boat as felix for DB, the only need i see for 6monsters on DB is at pianus for clearing bombs that people left behind. and that's rare enough as is.

[FelixTM]

the only real application for hamstring is mobile bosses, like anego, crow and BF. i haven't noticed if it even works on them. it SHOULD, but i don't think it does, unlike a mage's slow.


Hamstring does not work on bosses, which is why it is completely worthless.

[KaidaTan]

I must post as a yang to Felix's yin.

Concentrate is pretty awesome and just as much of a utility as Phoenix. However, just like Phoenix it's fairly useless until level 21. At levels 1-10 I used it as a tack-on to warrior elixers to save me a penny. At 11-20, I did pretty much the same thing, except I started paying more attention to Conc and getting used to using it.

At 21-22 (that's where it is now), I now use it whenever I have the chance. Depending on the size of your use inventory, you can actually train on Concentrate and Ciderfor quite a long time. I expanded 4 times quite a while ago, and I have enough space to train on Conc/Cider for around 90 minutes. Wherever you are, the Mushroom shrine is easy to access so it's easy to repot. I would still keep a stack of Warrior Elixers on you for emergency though.

It's especially nice at bosses like Anego and Pap for increasing your kill speed by quite a bit, not to mention the cheaper arrows. I even use it at bosses like HT right before I apple just for that. I've actually gotten to the point where I'm very very rarely using Warrior Elixers, so I tend to think of it as a permanent 8-10 attack upgrade. I do suggest stopping at 22 for Phoenix though. (or stopping Phoenix at 21 for Conc)

Really though, they're both very nice skills to have and I don't think there's really a "wrong" choice. Just choose what you think you'd see yourself using more.

As for DP and Hamstring, I agree that they're both useless. I might do Hamstring before DP but I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter. All the things that you'd really want to have 60 less speed are immune to it. It really blows since Mage's slow works on it. I wish that at the bare minimum Hamstring (and Blind) worked at half efficiency on bosses so I'd care about it. Anything that's not a boss just dies before it's able to move anyway >.<

P.S. Oh btw Felix, I tried training at Skeles with my level 9 Phoenix, it's actually pretty nice once you get used to it. I get hit a bit more, but stuff dies faster. It's pretty cool to watch him KB a mob. Next level he can do over 10k <3. Oh, and I found a way to stand at Anego that both doesn't kill you and allows Phoenix to attack. I'll send an SS of where I stood later.

[Allen]

Once I get Concentrate to 21, it's 3 minutes of +21 att (up to +26 with maxed Concentrate). Three minutes pairs perfectly with a cider, since the cider runs out just as soon as Concentrate can be recast.

But you can easily just use two ciders instead of concentrate o_O assuming 1atk is negligible. I think I like where phoenix is heading.

[Dusk]

But you can easily just use two ciders instead of concentrate o_O assuming 1atk is negligible. I think I like where phoenix is heading.

Ciders take up a slot of your use inventory. I have no idea how people train with them, even with Conc. After my collection of pots, pet/mount food, town scrolls, and 4-5 assorted items in my use inventory (Onyx apples, bow scrolls, those cupcakes that give you 30 speed/jump) are accounted for, I have about 8 slots left for attack pots. Ciders last 3 minutes each. That means if you want to train for just 2 hours without potting, you need 40 use slots (20 with max Conc). Expanding 8 times (what's the limit?) would cost 32K NX and just barely cover that for me. And what if you want to train for 4 hours (how long a 2x card lasts)? 32K NX and max Conc before that becomes a reality.

In comparison, a single stack of 100 Warrior Elixirs lasts 13 hours and 20 minutes and costs 500k mesos.

[Corn]

I thought Ciders lasted 5 minutes each.

[KaidaTan]

In comparison, a single stack of 100 Warrior Elixirs lasts 13 hours and 20 minutes and costs 500k mesos.

In comparison, a stack of Warrior Pills lasts for 16 hours and 40 minutes and costs 50k mesos. But we're talking about being as strong as possible, right?

While I can't disagree that Conc is more useful if you have an expanded invintory, you can still use Conc with Warrior Elixers and be making the most of your skill. And by that I mean use Conc, use an Elixer, use Conc as soon as it recharges, repeat. It actually costs about the same as using straighit Warrior Elixers due to the MP reduction.

Ciders last 3 minutes each, but it's moot since you'd probably want to use Conc as soon as possible anyway.

[Dusk]

The problem with Ciders isn't the cost, it's that they don't last a reasonable amount of time. Warrior Elixirs are the next-best easily attainable attack potion, and they last a decent amount of time.

[KaidaTan]

The problem with Ciders isn't the cost, it's that they don't last a reasonable amount of time. Warrior Elixirs are the next-best easily attainable attack potion, and they last a decent amount of time.

Disagree. Cider lasts a perfect amount of time for Concentrate. The problem with Cider (and why every other class doesn't use them) is that they don't stack.

[FelixTM]

I thought Ciders lasted 5 minutes each.

Somebody hasn't used too many Ciders. F3

Cider's description is horribly misleading and lacks information. They give 20 w/att, -5 acc and last 3 minutes. This is 100% true, especially since I use at least six a day (Pap).

[Icedfire]

kaida, i swear you're half agreeing with the guy you quoted.

[Dusk]

Disagree. Cider lasts a perfect amount of time for Concentrate. The problem with Cider (and why every other class doesn't use them) is that they don't stack.

Which is why I said they don't last a reasonable amount of time. I'm talking about per USE slot.

[cooldog67]

ive heard that Hamstring is extremely useful at skeles.

[Kevvl]

The only time Hamstring is useful, it's more beneficial to max other skills. By the time those skills are maxed, Hamstring isn't useful.


Sad..

[FelixTM]

ive heard that Hamstring is extremely useful at skeles.

At 16x, it'd already be absolutely worthless to me. I don't build mobs, as I blaze through anything with my Hurricane and Hurricane-tapping + Phoenix. Skeles usually don't move very far from where I see them/where they spawn. By the time I got Hamstring, I'd be even stronger and it would make even less sense.

It could potentially be useful with some training styles, I suppose. But I wouldn't be the one to ask about that. Honestly, I think Hamstring would hinder me more than it would help. I sometimes like to tick off some Skeles that spawn behind me so that they'll follow me over to where I'm killing other Skeles, then they'll be ready for me to kill when I'm done. Lol I don't need them slowpoking behind me.

*shrugs*

In simple terms, the post above me is quite right.

[Dusk]

It'd probably be pretty useful for me in my awesome 12xness, to keep them from reaching me. But I'd like to have more damage.

[Bravedancing]

But you can easily just use two ciders instead of concentrate o_O assuming 1atk is negligible. I think I like where phoenix is heading.

But ciders dont stack in inventory slots.

So if you have 10 ciders... that's 10 slots. So better to be able to alternate them with concentrate.

[MarkoM]

I have max hamstring since 15x and i find it really useful at skeles with 1hitko bishop who makes awesome spawn. So when i jump down from plat i just dp on both sides and hamstring will work on many monsters which makes no use of pots for me (i use 400 gingers in 4-6h becouse of spawn on me). Its also very good for zak spawns. They are slowerd down and cant reach you very fast. But ya... should work on bosses also.
Im doing concentrate now (170) and i almost never use it. I find phoenix not good becouse it aggro mobs on you which is not good. I allways use hawk. Just my style of play.
Dp is good at lvl1 for very long time.

[Allen]

Say you're the kind of person that likes to kill bosses all day i.e. anego, bigfoot, crow, pianus, pap, zak, Would you pursue phoenix or concentrate? I think overall, phoenix would increase my dps more than concentrate, no? Especially if I choose to apple at some bosses while solo-ing.

As for hamstring, MarkoM's post is very informative. It also happens to be very similar to what I was told about hamstring by my "mentor". Though, I do doubt its effectiveness at bossing, which is what I like to do.

[TiEaB]

I went max MW first and I dont regret a minute of it. Also phoenix and concentrate in my opinion are both fun skills. Neither skill is going to make such a huge significant difference in terms of killing efficiency since for training you will be owning and for bossing apples/demon elixirs/gelt chocolates would always be faster than any combination of conc, phoenix, or ciders:redface:. Dude its ur character pick a skill that you would enjoy seeing cuz after 150 its really just about looks lol. Archer FTW?:heart:

[KaidaTan]

I went max MW first and I dont regret a minute of it. Also phoenix and concentrate in my opinion are both fun skills. Neither skill is going to make such a huge significant difference in terms of killing efficiency since for training you will be owning and for bossing apples/demon elixirs/gelt chocolates would always be faster than any combination of conc, phoenix, or ciders:redface:. Dude its ur character pick a skill that you would enjoy seeing cuz after 150 its really just about looks lol. Archer FTW?:heart:

I agree entirely. Felix could argue in favor of Phoenix or I could argue in favor of Concentrate, but really it's not a big debate. Unlike the Inferno/Thrust debate, you're going to eventually max both of these skills. In my opinion, neither choice is any worse than the other because they're both good skills. Just choose what suits your style of play more.