The Ultimate 4th Job DPM Thread [Archive]

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Devil

2008-09-06, 05:23 PM

I am making this thread as a reference for everyone who's interested in this.

For now, I'll only be posting MAX damage per minute, so average damage / minute is not implemented. Don't worry, I'll add it later!

If you see any errors in the calculations, please post them, also including how it should be calculated correctly.

I'll add more stats later on, just be patient! :)

Anyone - Feel free to contribute!

==================================================

Formula's for all classes:

Warriors:
Two Handed Sword - [(STR * 4.6 + DEX) / 100] * Weapon Attack
One Handed Sword - [(STR * 4.0 + DEX) / 100] * Weapon Attack
Spear - [(STR * 5.0 + DEX) / 100] * Weapon Attack

Thieves
Dagger - [(LUK * 3.6 + STR + DEX) / 100]* Weapon Attack
L7 / TT - [(LUK * 5.0) / 100] * Weapon Attack

Archers
Bow - [(DEX * 3.4 + STR) / 100] * Weapon Attack
Crossbow - [(DEX * 3.6 + STR) / 100] * Weapon Attack

Pirates
Knuckle - [(STR * 4.8 + DEX) / 100] * Weapon Attack
Gun - [(DEX * 3.6 + STR) / 100] * Weapon Attack

Magicians - Very Experimental - Error margin 50% :P
Wand/Staff: [(MAG * 4.44) / 100] * (0.8 * Spell Magic Attack)

Weapon attack for all classes:
- Based on:
-- lvl 120 Weapons [+7/60%] - (+14 watt)
-- Storm Caster Gloves (+5/60%) - (+15 watt)
-- Shields for 1h att classes [+10/60%] - (+20 watt)
-- Warrior Elixers - (+12 watt)
-- 4 att Pink Adventurer - (+4 watt)
-- 2 att Face Stompers - (+2 watt)
-- All Class Passive/"Endless" watt Skill Boosters

Warriors:
Hero:
Two Handed Sword - 110 + 14 + 15 + 12 + 4 + 2 = 157 watt
One Handed Sword - 108 + 14 + 15 + 20 + 12 + 4 + 2 = 175 watt
One Handed Sword (red katana) - 82 + 14 + 15 + 20 + 12 + 4 + 2 = 149 watt
One Handed Sword (lunchbox) - 109 + 14 + 15 + 20 + 12 + 4 + 2 = 176 watt
[Onyx Apple] One Handed Sword (red katana) - 82 + 14 + 15 + 20 + 100 + 4 + 2 = 237 watt
[Onyx Apple] One Handed Sword (lunchbox) - 109 + 14 + 15 + 20 + 100 + 4 + 2 = 264 watt

Paladin:
Two Handed Sword - 110 + 14 + 15 + 12 + 4 + 2 = 157 watt
One Handed Sword - 108 + 14 + 15 + 20 + 12 + 4 + 2 = 175 watt
One Handed Sword (lunchbox) - 109 + 14 + 15 + 20 + 12 + 4 + 2 = 176 watt
[Onyx Apple] One Handed Sword (lunchbox) - 109 + 14 + 15 + 20 + 100 + 4 + 2 = 264 watt

Dark Knight
Spear - 112 + 14 + 15 + 15 + 4 + 2 = 162 watt
Spear - 112 + 14 + 15 + 100 + 4 + 2 = 247 watt

Thieves
Shadower (LUK) - 103 + 14 + 15 + 20 + 12 + 4 + 2 = 170 watt
[Onyx Apple] Shadower (LUK) - 103 + 14 + 15 + 20 + 100 + 4 + 2 = 258 watt
Night Lord - 54 + 29 + 14 + 15 + 12 + 4 + 2 = 130 watt
[Onyx Apple] Night Lord - 54 + 29 + 14 + 15 + 12 + 4 + 2 = 218 watt

Archers
Bowmaster - 105 + 14 + 15 + 12 + 4 + 2 + 10 = 162 watt
[Onyx Apple] Bowmaster - 105 + 14 + 15 + 100 + 4 + 2 + 10 = 250 watt
Marksman - 108 + 14 + 15 + 12 + 4 + 2 + 10 = 165 watt

Pirates
Viper - 82 + 14 + 15 + 12 + 4 + 2 + 20 = 149 watt
[Onyx Apple] Viper - 82 + 14 + 15 + 100 + 4 + 2 = 217 watt
Captain - 82 + 14 + 15 + 12 + 4 + 2 + 20 = 149 watt
[Onyx Apple] Captain - 82 + 14 + 15 + 100 + 4 + 2 + 20 = 237 watt

Magicians
Bishop:
Angel's Ray - 192 SMA
Bahamut - 184 SMA
Genesis - 536 SMA

Archmages:
Paralyze - 168 * 1.35 = 227 SMA
Elquines - 216 SMA
Meteor Shower - 456 * 1.35 = 616 SMA
Chain Lightning - 144 * 1.35 = 194 SMA
Ifrit - 240 SMA
Blizzard - 456 * 1.35 = 616 SMA

Attacks / minute for all classes (Based on "Attack Speed Reference" thread by LazyBui (http://www.southperry.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3217))

Warriors:
Hero:
Two Handed Sword - Brandish - Fast (4) - 750ms - 80 / min
One Handed Sword - Brandish - Faster (3) - 690ms - 87 / min
One Handed Sword (lunchbox) - Brandish - Faster (2) - 630ms - 95.24 / min

Paladin:
Two Handed Sword - Blast - Fast (4) - 750ms - 80 / min
One Handed Sword - Blast - Faster (3) - 690ms - 87 / min
One Handed Sword (red katana/lunchbox) - Blast - Faster (2) - 630ms - 95.24 / min

Dark Knight
Spear - Crusher (with Berserk) - Fast (5) - 990ms - 61 / min

Thieves
Night Lord:
Triple Throw - Faster (2) - 600ms - 100 / min

Shadower:
Sblow - Faster (2): 720ms - 83 / min

Assassinate + Bstep Combo - Faster (2):
-- Bstep 1950 - 720 - 720 = 510ms
-- Dark Sight (in+out) - 500ms (self timed)
-- Assassinate 3 hit - 1380ms
-- Assassinate last hit - 300ms (self timed)
--- Total - 2690 ms - 22.3 / min

Assassinate only - No Charge - Without 4th hit - Faster (2):
-- Dark Sight (in+out) - 500ms (self timed)
-- Assassinate 3 hit - 1380ms
--- Total - 1880 ms - 31.91 / min

Assassinate only - No Charge - With 4th hit - Faster (2):
-- Dark Sight (in+out) - 500ms (self timed)
-- Assassinate 3 hit - 1380ms
-- Assassinate last hit - 300ms (self timed)
--- Total - 2180 ms - 27.52 / min

Assassinate only - Full Charge (12 seconds) - With 4th hit - Faster (2):
-- Chargeup - 12000ms
-- Dark Sight (in+out) - 500ms (self timed)
-- Assassinate 3 hit - 1380ms
-- Assassinate last hit - 300ms (self timed)
--- Total - 14180 ms - 4.23 / min

Bstep + Sblow Combo - Faster (2):
-- Bstep - 510ms
-- SBlow - 720ms
-- SBlow - 720ms
--- Total - 1950 ms - 30.8 / min

Archers
Bowmaster - Hurricane - 120ms - 500 / min
Marksman - Strafe - Fast (4) - 720ms - 83 / min

Pirates
Viper - Demolition - 33 / min (self timed)
Viper - Barrage+DU Combo - 3240ms = 18.52 / min
Viper - Drain = 133 / min (self timed)
Captain - Cannon - 90 / min (self timed)
Captain - Rapid Fire - 500 / min (not 100% sure)

Magicians
Bishop:
Angel's Ray - 720ms 83.33 / min
Bahamut - 5000ms 12 / min - Someone know exact Summon Speed?
Genesis - 2700ms 22.22 / min

Archmages: - With Magic Booster
Paralyze - 720ms 83.33 / min
Elquines - 5000ms 12 / min - Someone know exact Summon Speed?
Meteor Shower - 3060ms 19.61 / min
Chain Lightning - 690ms 86.96 / min
Ifrit - 5000ms 12 / min - Someone know exact Summon Speed?
Blizzard - 3060ms 19.61 / min

Damage percentage per Attack / Hit / Combo:

Warriors:
Hero - Brandish - 260*2 = 520% * 1.9 = 988%
Hero - Brandish + SE:
- 15% > 2*(260+140)*1.9 = 1520%
- 85% > 520*1.9 = 988%
-- 100% = 1068%

Paladin - Blast - 550 * 1.4 (Holy Charge) = 770%
Paladin - Blast - 550 * 1.4 (Holy Charge) * 1.5 = 1155%

Dark Knight
Spear - Crusher (with Berserk) - 170*3*2 = 1020%

Thieves
Night Lord - Triple Throw + SP + Critical (50% critical rate):
- 50% > 1125%
- 50% > 675%
-- 100% = 900%

Night Lord - Triple Throw + SP + Critical + SE (65% critical rate):
- 65% > 1755%
- 35% > 675%
-- 100% = 1377%

Shadower:
Assassinate + Bstep Combo: 2400 / 2650+1000= 3400% / 3650%
- 90% > 3650%
- 10% > 3400%
-- 100% = 3625%

Assassinate + Bstep Combo + SE:
- Assassinate >
-- First 3 Hits > 3*600% = 1800%
-- Last Critical Hit > 100% > 600+250+350= 1150%
--- 100% = 2950%
- Bstep >
-- 15% > 2*500 + 2*240 = 1480%
-- 85% > 2*500 = 1000%
--- 100% = 1072%
---- 100% = 4022%

Assassinate only - No Charge - Without 4th hit: 600*3 = 1800%

Assassinate only - No Charge - With 4th hit: 2400% / 2650%
- 90% > 2650%
- 10% > 2400%
-- 100% = 2625%

Assassinate only - No Charge - With 4th hit + SE:
First 3 Hits > 3*600% = 1800%
Last Critical Hit > 100% > 600+250+350= 1150%
-- 100% = 2950%

Assassinate only - Full Charge (12 seconds) - With 4th hit:
- 90% > 5* 2650 = 13250%
- 10% > 5* 2400 = 12000%
-- 100% = 13.125%

Bstep + Sblow Combo: 1000+480+480= 1960%

Bstep + Sblow Combo + SE:
-- Bstep
- 15% > 2*500 + 2*240 = 1480%
- 85% > 2*500 = 1000%
-- 100% = 1072%
-- Sblow
- 15% > 2*6*80 + 2*6*240 = 3840%
- 85% > 2*6*80 = 960%
-- 100% = 1392%
--- Total Bstep + Sblow Combo + SE: 2464%

Archers
Bowmaster - Hurricane + Critical + SE:
- 55% > 340%
- 45% > 100%
-- 100% = 232%

Marksman - Strafe + Critical + SE:
- 55% > 1360%
- 45% > 400%
-- 100% = 928%

Pirates
Viper - Demolition: 400*8 = 3200%

Viper - Barrage + DU Combo:
- Barrage = 2300%
- Double Upper = 580%
-- Total Barrage + DU Combo = 2880%

Viper - Drain = 360%

Captain - Cannon + Adv. Homing - 380*4 = 1520% * 1.2 = 1824%
Captain - Rapid Fire + Adv. Homing = 160% * 1.2 = 192%
Viper - Demolition + SE
- 15% > 8*400 + 8*240 = 5120%
- 85% > 8*400 = 3200%
-- 100% = 3328%
Captain - Cannon + Adv. Homing + SE
- 15% > 4*380 + 4*240 = 2480% * 1.2 = 2976%
- 85% > 4*380 = 1520% * 1.2 = 1824%
-- 100% = 1905%

All stats combined together
dmp = Damage Multiplier
watt = Weapon Attack
atm = Attacks Per Minute
dpa = Damage Per Attack

Warriors:
Hero - Brandish - 2H: 4.6dmp - 157watt - 80atm - 988%dpa
Hero - Brandish: - 1H: 4.0dmp - 175watt - 87atm - 988%dpa
Hero - Brandish (red katana): - 1H: 4.0dmp - 149 watt - 95.24atm - 988%dpa
Hero - Brandish (lunchbox): - 1H: 4.0dmp - 176watt - 95.24atm - 988%dpa
[Onyx Apple] Hero - Brandish (red katana): - 1H: 4.0dmp - 237 watt - 95.24atm - 988%dpa
[Onyx Apple] Hero - Brandish (lunchbox): - 1H: 4.0dmp - 264watt - 95.24atm - 988%dpa
Hero - Brandish (lunchbox) + SE: - 1H: 4.0dmp - 176watt - 95.24atm - 1068%dpa
[Onyx Apple] Hero - Brandish (lunchbox) + SE: - 1H: 4.0dmp - 264watt - 95.24atm - 1068%dpa
Paladin - Blast - 2H: 4.6dmp - 157watt - 80atm - 770%dpa / 1155%dpa
Paladin - Blast - 1H: 4.0dmp - 175watt - 87atm - 770%dpa / 1155%dpa
Paladin - Blast (lunchbox): - 1H: 4.6dmp - 176watt - 80atm - 770%dpa / 1155%dpa
[Onyx Apple] Paladin - Blast (lunchbox): - 1H: 4.0dmp - 264watt - 87atm - 770%dpa / 1155%dpa
Dark Knight - Spear Crusher (with Berserk): 5.0dmp - 162watt - 61atm - 1020%dpa
[Onyx Apple] Dark Knight - Spear Crusher (with Berserk): 5.0dmp - 247watt - 61atm - 1020%dpa

Thieves
Night Lord - Triple Throw + SP + Critical: 5.0dmp - 130watt - 100atm - 900%dpa
Night Lord - Triple Throw + SP + Critical: 5.0dmp - 130watt - 100atm - 1377%dpa
[Onyx Apple] Night Lord - Triple Throw + SP + Critical: 5.0dmp - 218watt - 100atm - 900%dpa
[Onyx Apple] Night Lord - Triple Throw + SP + Critical: 5.0dmp - 218watt - 100atm - 1377%dpa
Shadower: - Assassinate + Bstep Combo: 3.6dmp - 170watt - 22.3atm - 3625%dpa
Shadower: - Assassinate + Bstep Combo + SE: 3.6dmp - 170watt - 22.3atm - 4022%dpa
[Onyx Apple] Shadower: - Assassinate + Bstep Combo: 3.6dmp - 258watt - 22.3atm - 3625%dpa
Shadower: - Bstep + SBlow Combo: 3.6dmp - 170watt - 30.8atm - 1960%dpa
[Onyx Apple] Shadower: - Bstep + Sblow Combo + SE: 3.6dmp - 258watt - 30.8atm - 2464%dpa
Shadower: - Assassinate only - No Charge - Without 4th hit: 3.6dmp - 170watt - 31.91atm - 1800%dpa
Shadower: - Assassinate only - No Charge - With 4th hit: 3.6dmp - 170watt - 27.52atm - 2625%dpa
Shadower: - Assassinate only - No Charge - With 4th hit + SE: 3.6dmp - 170watt - 27.52atm - 2950%dpa
[Onyx Apple] Shadower: - Assassinate only - No Charge - With 4th hit + SE: 3.6dmp - 170watt - 27.52atm - 2950%dpa
Shadower: - Assassinate only - Full Charge (12 sec) - With 4th hit: 3.6dmp - 170watt - 4.23atm - 13.125%dpa

Archers
Bowmaster - Hurricane + Critical + SE: 3.4dmp - 162watt - 500atm - 232%dpa
[Onyx Apple] Bowmaster - Hurricane + Critical + SE: 3.4dmp - 250watt - 500atm - 232%dpa
Marksman - Strafe + Critical + SE: 3.6dmp - 165watt - 83atm - 928%dpa

Pirates
Viper - Demolition: 4.8dmp - 149watt - 33atm - 3200%dpa
Viper - Barrage + DU Combo: 4.8dmp - 149watt - 18.52atm - 2880%dpa
Viper - Drain: 4.8dpm - 149watt - 133atm - 360%dpa
[Onyx Apple] Viper - Demolition: 4.8dmp - 217watt - 33atm - 3200%dpa
[Onyx Apple] Viper - Demolition + SE: 4.8dmp - 217watt - 33atm - 3328%dpa
Captain - Cannon: 3.6dmp - 149watt - 90atm - 1824%dpa
Captain - Rapid Fire = 3.6dmp - 149watt - 500atm - 192%dpa
[Onyx Apple] Captain - Cannon: 3.6dmp - 237watt - 90atm - 1824%dpa
[Onyx Apple] Captain - Cannon + Adv. Homing + SE: 3.6dmp - 237watt - 90atm - 1905%dpa
[Onyx Apple] Captain - Rapid Fire = 3.6dmp - 237watt - 500atm - 192%dpa

Magicians
Bishop:
Angel's Ray: 4.44dmp - 192 SMA - 83.33atm - 192%dpa
Bahamut: 4.44dmp - 184 SMA - 12atm - 184%dpa
Genesis: 4.44dmp - 536 SMA - 22.22atm - 536%dpa

Archmages:
Paralyze: 4.44dmp - 227 SMA - 83.33atm - 227%dpa
Elquines: 4.44dmp - 216 SMA - 12atm - 216%dpa
Meteor Shower: 4.44dmp - 616 SMA - 19.61atm - 616%dpa
Chain Lightning: 4.44dmp - 194 SMA - 86.96atm - 194%dpa
Ifrit: 4.44dmp - 240 SMA - 12atm - 240%dpa
Blizzard: 4.44dmp - 616 SMA - 19.61atm - 616%dpa

Calculations - 1
Just pure damage percentages per minute... not very usefull... ;)

Warriors:
Hero - Brandish - 2H: 80*988 = 79.040%
Hero - Brandish: - 1H: 87*988 = 85.956%
Hero - Brandish (red katana / lunchbox): - 1H: 95.24*988 = 94.095%
Hero - Brandish (lunchbox) + SE: - 1H: 95.24*1068% = 101.716%
Paladin - Blast - 2H: 80*770 & 1155 = 61.600% & 92.400%
Paladin - Blast - 1H: 87*770 & 1155 = 69.990% & 100.485%
Paladin - Blast (lunchbox): - 1H: 95.24*770 / 1155 = 73.335% / 110.002%
Dark Knight - Spear Crusher (with Berserk): 61*1020 = 62.220%

Thieves
Night Lord - Triple Throw + SP + Critical: 100*900 = 90.000%
Night Lord - Triple Throw + SP + Critical + SE: 100*1377 = 137.700%
Shadower: - Sblow only + SE = 83.3*768 = 63.974%
Shadower: - Assassinate + Bstep Combo: 22.3*3625 = 80.838%
Shadower: - Assassinate + Bstep Combo + SE: 22.3*4022 = 89.691%
Shadower: - Bstep + Sblow Combo: 30.8*1960 = 60.368%
Shadower: - Bstep + Sblow Combo + SE: 30.8*2464 = 75.891%
Shadower: - Assassinate only - No Charge - Without 4th hit: 31.91*1800 = 57.438%
Shadower: - Assassinate only - No Charge - With 4th hit: 27.52*2625 = 72.240%
Shadower: - Assassinate only - No Charge - With 4th hit + SE: 27.52*2950 = 81.184%
Shadower: - Assassinate only - Full Charge (12 sec) - With 4th hit: 4.23*13.125 = 55.519%

Archers
Bowmaster - Hurricane + Critical + SE: 500*232 = 116.000%
Marksman - Strafe + Critical + SE: 83*928 = 77.024%

Pirates
Viper - Demolition: 33*3200 = 105.600%
Viper - Demolition + SE: 33*3328 = 109.824%
Viper - Barrage + DU Combo: 18.52*2880% = 53.338%
Viper - Drain: 133*360% = 47.880%
Captain - Cannon: 90*1824 = 164.160%
Captain - Cannon + SE: 90*1905 = 171.450%
Captain - Rapid Fire: 500*192 = 96.000%

Magicians
Bishop:
Angel's Ray: 83.33 * 192 = 15.999%
Bahamut: 12 * 184 = 2208%
Genesis: 22.22 * 536 = 11.910%

Archmages:
Paralyze: 83.33 * 227 = 18.916%
Elquines: 12 * 216 = 2592%
Meteor Shower: 19.61 * 616 = 12.080%
Chain Lightning: 86.96 * 194 = 16.870%
Ifrit: 12 * 240 = 2880%
Blizzard: 19.61 * 616 = 12.080%

Calculations - 2
Now lets even them out on damage multipliers in the "Class formula's".
All damage percentages converted to a 5.0 multiplier. But still not really usefull since all classes have other weapon attack.

Warriors:
Hero - Brandish - 2H: 79.040% * (4.6/5) = 72.717%
Hero - Brandish: - 1H: 85.956% * (4.0/5) = 68.765%
Hero - Brandish (red katana / lunchbox): - 1H: 94.095% * (4.0/5) = 75.276%
Hero - Brandish (lunchbox) + SE: - 1H: 101.716% * (4.0/5) = 81.373%
Paladin - Blast - 2H: 61.600% & 92.400% * (4.6/5) = 56.672% & 85.008%
Paladin - Blast - 1H: 69.990% & 100.485%* (4.0/5) = 55.992% & 80.388%
Paladin - Blast (lunchbox): - 1H: = 73.335% & 110.002% * (4.0/5) = 58.668% & 88.002%
Dark Knight - Spear Crusher (with Berserk): 62.220% * (5.0/5) = 62.220%

Thieves
Night Lord - Triple Throw + SP + Critical: 90.000% * (5.0/5) = 90.000%
Night Lord - Triple Throw + SP + Critical + SE: 90.000% * (5.0/5) = 90.000%
Shadower: - Sblow only + SE: 63.974% * (3.6/5) = 46.061%
Shadower: - Assassinate + Bstep Combo: 80.838% * (3.6/5) = 58.203%
Shadower: - Assassinate + Bstep Combo + SE: 89.691% * (3.6/5) = 64.578%
Shadower: - Bstep + Sblow Combo: 60.368% * (3.6/5) = 43.465%
Shadower: - Bstep + Sblow Combo + SE: 75.891% * (3.6/5) = 54.642%
Shadower: - Assassinate only - No Charge - Without 4th hit: 57.438% * (3.6/5) = 41.355%
Shadower: - Assassinate only - No Charge - With 4th hit: 72.240% * (3.6/5) = 52.013%
Shadower: - Assassinate only - No Charge - With 4th hit + SE: 81.184% * (3.6/5) = 58.452%
Shadower: - Assassinate only - Full Charge (12 sec) - With 4th hit: 55.519% * (3.6/5) = 39.974%

Archers
Bowmaster - Hurricane + Critical + SE: 116.000% * (3.4/5) = 78.880%
Marksman - Strafe + Critical + SE: 77.024% * (3.6/5) = 55.457%
Marksman - Strafe + Critical + SE + Snipe [with 3000 max att range]: (77.024% + 20.000%) * (3.6/5) = 69.857%
Marksman - Strafe + Critical + SE + Snipe [with 4000 max att range]: (77.024% + 15.000%) * (3.6/5) = 66.257%
Marksman - Strafe + Critical + SE + Snipe [with 5000 max att range]: (77.024% + 12.000%) * (3.6/5) = 64.097%
Marksman - Strafe + Critical + SE + Snipe(200k) [with 3000 max att range]: (77.024% + 40.000%) * (3.6/5) = 84.257%
Marksman - Strafe + Critical + SE + Snipe(200k) [with 4000 max att range]: (77.024% + 30.000%) * (3.6/5) = 77.057%
Marksman - Strafe + Critical + SE + Snipe(200k) [with 5000 max att range]: (77.024% + 24.000%) * (3.6/5) = 72.737%

Pirates
Viper - Demolition: 105.600% * (4.8/5) = 101.376%
Viper - Barrage + DU Combo: 53.338% * (4.8/5) = 51.204%
Viper - Demolition + SE: 109.824% * (4.8/5) = 105.431%
Viper - Drain: 47.880% * (4.8/5) = 45.965%
Captain - Cannon: 164.160% * (3.6/5) = 118.195%
Captain - Cannon + SE: 171.450% * (3.6/5) = 123.444%
Captain - Rapid Fire: 96.000% * (3.6/5) = 69.120%

Magicians
Bishop:
Angel's Ray: 15.999% * (4.44/5) = 14.207% & 21.311%
Bahamut: 2208% * (4.44/5) = 1961% & 2941%
Genesis: 11.910% * (4.44/5) = 10.576% & 15.864%

Archmages:
Paralyze: 18.916% * (4.44/5) = 16.797%
Elquines: 2592% * (4.44/5) = 2302%
Meteor Shower: 12.080% * (4.44/5) = 10.727%
Chain Lightning: 16.870% * (4.44/5) = 14.981%
Ifrit: 2880% * (4.44/5) = 2557%
Blizzard: 12.080% * (4.44/5) = 10.727%

Calculations - 3
Now lets even them out on damage multipliers + weapon attack.
Now here you can compare the classes against each other who does most dps / min.
One handed Heroes / Paladins have most weapon attack so lets use them as comparision.

Warriors:
Hero - Brandish - 2H: 72.717% * (157/175) = 65.238%
Hero - Brandish: - 1H: 68.765% * (175/175) = 68.765%
Hero - Brandish (red katana): 75.276% * (149/175) = 64.092%
Hero - Brandish (lunchbox): 75.276% * (176/175) = 75.706%
Hero - Brandish (lunchbox) + SE: 81.373% * (176/175) = 81.838%
[Onyx Apple] Hero - Brandish (red katana): - 75.276% * (237/175) = 101.945%
[Onyx Apple] Hero - Brandish (lunchbox): - 75.276% * (264/175) = 113.559%
[Onyx Apple] Hero - Brandish (lunchbox) + SE: 81.373% * (264/175) = 122.756%

Paladin - Blast - 2H: 56.672% & 85.008% * (157/175) = 50.843% & 76.264%
Paladin - Blast - 1H: 55.992% & 80.388% * (175/175) = 55.992% & 80.388%
Paladin - Blast (lunchbox) - 1H: 58.668% & 88.002% * (176/175) = 59.003% & 85.494%
[Onyx Apple] Paladin - Blast (lunchbox) - 1H: 58.668% & 88.002% * (264/175) = 88.505% & 132.757%

Dark Knight - Spear Crusher (with Berserk): 62.220%% * (162/175) = 57.598%
Dark Knight - Spear Crusher (without Berserk): 62.220%% * (162/175) = 57.598% / 2 = 28.799%
[Onyx Apple] Dark Knight - Spear Crusher (without Berserk): 62.220%% * (247/175) = 87.819% / 2 = 43.910%

Thieves
Night Lord - Triple Throw + SP + Critical: 90.000% * (130/175) = 66.857%
Night Lord - Triple Throw + SP + Critical + SE: 137.700% * (130/175) = 102.291%
[Onyx Apple] Night Lord - Triple Throw + SP + Critical: 90.000% * (218/175) = 112.114%
[Onyx Apple] Night Lord - Triple Throw + SP + Critical + SE: 137.700% * (218/175) = 171.535%

Shadower: - Assassinate + Bstep Combo: 58.203% * (170/175) = 56.540%
Shadower: - Assassinate + Bstep Combo + SE: 64.578% * (170/175) = 62.733%
Shadower: - Bstep + Sblow Combo: 43.465% * (170/175) = 41.101%
Shadower: - Bstep + Sblow Combo + SE: 54.642% * (170/175) = 53.081%
Shadower: - Assassinate only - No Charge - Without 4th hit: 41.355% * (170/175) = 40.173%
Shadower: - Assassinate only - No Charge - With 4th hit: 52.013% * (170/175) = 50.527%
Shadower: - Assassinate only - No Charge - With 4th hit + SE: 58.452% * (170/175) = 56.782%
Shadower: - Assassinate only - Full Charge (12 sec) - With 4th hit: 39.974% * (170/175) = 38.832%
[Onyx Apple] Shadower: - Sblow only + SE: 46.061% * (258/175) = 67.907%
[Onyx Apple] Shadower: - Assassinate + Bstep Combo: 58.203% * (258/175) = 85.807%
[Onyx Apple] Shadower: - Assassinate + Bstep Combo + SE: 64.578% * (258/175) = 95.206%
[Onyx Apple] Shadower: - Bstep + Sblow Combo: 43.465% * (258/175) = 60.594%
[Onyx Apple] Shadower: - Bstep + Sblow Combo + SE: 54.642% * (258/175) = 80.558%
[Onyx Apple] Shadower: - Assassinate only - No Charge - Without 4th hit + SE: 41.355% * (258/175) = 60.969%
[Onyx Apple] - Shadower: - Assassinate only - No Charge - With 4th hit + SE: 58.452% * (258/175) = 86.175%

Archers
Bowmaster - Hurricane + Critical + SE: 78.880% * (162/175) = 73.020%
[Onyx Apple] Bowmaster - Hurricane + Critical + SE: 78.880% * (250/175) = 112.686%

Marksman - Strafe + Critical + SE: 55.457% * (165/175) = 52.288%
Marksman - Strafe + Critical + SE + Snipe [with 3000 max att range]: 69.857% * (165/175) = 65.865%
Marksman - Strafe + Critical + SE + Snipe [with 4000 max att range]: 66.257% * (165/175) = 62.471%
Marksman - Strafe + Critical + SE + Snipe [with 5000 max att range]: 64.097% * (165/175) = 60.434%
Marksman - Strafe + Critical + SE + Snipe(200k) [with 3000 max att range]: 84.257% * (165/175) = 79.442%
Marksman - Strafe + Critical + SE + Snipe(200k) [with 4000 max att range]: 77.057% * (165/175) = 72.654%
Marksman - Strafe + Critical + SE + Snipe(200k) [with 5000 max att range]: 72.737% * (165/175) = 68.581%

Pirates
Viper - Demolition: 101.376% * (149/175) = 86.314%
Viper - Barrage + DU Combo: 51.204% * (149/175) = 43.597%
Viper - Drain: 45.965% * (149/175) = 39.135%
Viper - Demolition & Barrage + DU Combo: ((16/20)*86.314) + ((4/20)*43.597) = 77771%
[Onyx Apple] Viper - Demolition: 101.376% * (217/175) = 125.706%
[Onyx Apple] Viper - Barrage + DU Combo: 51.204% * (217/175) = 63.493%
[Onyx Apple] Viper - Demolition & Barrage + DU Combo: ((16/20)*125.706) + ((4/20)*63.493) = 113.263%
[Onyx Apple] Viper - Demolition + SE: 105.431% * (217/175) = 130.734%

Captain - Cannon: 118.195% * (149/175) = 99.281%
Captain - Rapid Fire: 69.120% * (149/175) = 58.060%
[Onyx Apple] Captain - Cannon: 118.195% * (237/175) = 160.069%
[Onyx Apple] Captain - Cannon + SE: 123.444% * (237/175) = 167.178%
[Onyx Apple] Captain - Rapid Fire: 69.120% * (237/175) = 93.608%

Magicians (+Element Bonus)
Bishop:
Angel's Ray: 14.207% * (192/175) = 15.587% & 23.381%
Bahamut: 1961% * (184/175) = 2062% & 3093%
-- Angel's Ray + Bahamut (non Elemental - Boss): 17.649%
Genesis: 10.576% * (536/175) = 32.393%& 48.590%

Archmages:
Paralyze: 16.797% * (227/175) = 21.788% & 32.682%
Elquines: 2302% * (216/175) = 2841% & 4262%
-- Paralyze + Elquines (non Elemental - Boss): 24.629%
Meteor Shower: 10.727% * (616/175) = 37.759% & 56.639%
Chain Lightning: 14.981% * (194/175) = 16.608% & 24.912%
Ifrit: 2557% * (240/175) = 3507% & 5261%
-- Chain Lightning + Ifrit (non Elemental - Boss): 20.115%
Blizzard: 10.727% * (616/175) = 37.759% & 56.639%

Calculations - 4

Without Onyx Apples:

Not possible at Horntail:
- 6x NightLord (Not Possible at Horntail - 1-Hit Death)
-- 6x 66.857% = 401.142%

- 6x Bowmaster (Not Possible at Horntail - 1-Hit Death)
-- 6x 73.020% = 438.120%

- 1x Bowmaster + 5x NightLord (Not Possible at Horntail - 1-Hit Death)
-- 73.020% + 5x 102.291% = 584.475%

- 6x Captain (Battleship) (Not Possible at Horntail - 1-Hit Death)
-- 6x 99.281% = 595.686%

Possible at Horntail:
- 6x Hero - Brandish (Red Katana)
-- 6x 64.092% = 384.552%

- Bishop + 5x Viper (6x Revive per 20 mins)
-- X + 5x 77771% = 388.855%

- Bishop + DarkKnight + BowMaster + 3x NightLord
-- X + 28.799% + 73.020% + 3x 102.291% = 408.692%

- 6x Hero - Brandish (Lunchbox)
-- 6x 75.706% = 454.238%

- 6x Viper (Demolition+Barrage+DU Combo)
-- 6x 77771% = 466.626%

With Onyx Apples:

Not possible at Horntail:
- 6x NightLord (Not Possible at Horntail - 1-Hit Death)
-- 6x 112.114% = 672.684%

- 6x Bowmaster (Not Possible at Horntail - 1-Hit Death)
-- 6x 112.686% = 676.116%

- 1x Bowmaster + 5x Viper (Not Possible at Horntail - Bowmaster = 1-Hit Death)
-- 112.686% + 5x 130.734% = 766.356%

- 1x Bowmaster + 5x Captain (Not Possible at Horntail - 1-Hit Death)
-- 112.686% + 5x 167.178% = 948.576%

- 6x Captain (Battleship) (Not Possible at Horntail - 1-Hit Death)
-- 6x 160.069% = 960.414%

- 1x Bowmaster + 5x NightLord (Not Possible at Horntail - 1-Hit Death)
-- 112.686% + 5x 171.535% = 970.361%

Possible at Horntail:
- Bishop + 5x Viper (6x Revive per 20 mins)
-- X + 5x 113.263%% = 566.315%

- 6x Hero - Brandish (Red Katana)
-- 6x 101.945% = 611.670%

- Bishop + DarkKnight + BowMaster + 3x NightLord
-- X + 43.910% + 112.686% + 3x 171.535% = 671.201%

- 6x Viper (Demolition+Barrage+DU Combo)
-- 6x 113.263% = 679.580%

- 6x Hero - Brandish (Lunchbox)
-- 6x 113.559% = 681.354%

- Bishop + DarkKnight + 4x Captain (Battleship)
-- X + 43.910% + 4x 160.069% = 684.186%

==================================================
Please that in mind that this is Max Damage / Min.

If you have any idea's / corrections / comments to post, please do so! :)

Devil

2008-09-06, 05:25 PM

- Reserved as extra space -

Acim

2008-09-06, 05:44 PM

- Captains can use Cannon forever, Rapid Fire will be added if I know bullets / minute of that skill.

One thread says 8 bullets per second (480 per minute), one says 8.3 per second (which I believe, rough estimating, is 500 per minute).

Awesome thread. Very informative.

Also, you could add ranks, just listing jobs in order of most DPM. I know certain people on these forums who can't understand math, or anything. -goes to finish reading-

Dusk

2008-09-06, 06:10 PM

Bit confused. What do the percentages mean?

Also, Hurricane does 232% per arrow with SE and Strafe does 232*4 = 928% per attack.

Crits are 340%, not 240%.

I like the idea of using standard equipment for all classes, though. It's a lot more fair than going off assumed market values and bs like that. It shows you realistically how damage would match up if certain classes weren't way more popular than others.

KaidaTan

2008-09-06, 06:11 PM

Nikkey

2008-09-06, 06:29 PM

Calculations - 2 have a major bug.

[(STR * 4.6 + DEX) / 100] * Weapon Attack

If you multiply that with 5 and divide by 4.6, you'll get a higher percentage than you should have because of the dex. You have to inject the 5.0 multiplier directly into the main stat.

But what I don't get, is what this thread is for. Uhm, well, I do, somewhat, but could you just explain it to me?

Devil

2008-09-06, 06:44 PM

You did Critical for Bowmasters and Marksmen wrong. You have their crits doing 240% damage, which is only +140% from normal. SE crits are actually much higher than that. Crit arrows with SE do +240%, so 340% damage per arrow.

Archers
Bowmaster - Hurricane + Critical + SE:
- 55% > 340%
- 45% > 100%
-- 100% = 232%

Marksman - Strafe + Critical + SE:
- 55% > 1360%
- 45% > 400%
-- 100% = 928%

Oh, it looks like the damage for NLs is messed up too. Lemmie fix that.

Night Lord - Triple Throw + SP + Critical (50% critical rate):
- 50% > 1875%
- 50% > 1125%
-- 100% = 1500%

And here's with SE
Night Lord - Triple Throw + SP + Critical +SE:
- 65% > 2925%
- 35% > 1125%
-- 100% = 2295%Ok fixed Bowmasters / Marksmen! Haha just totally forgot that it worked that way! :)

But about Triple Throw, no I used the correct value's! So damage without SE = Correct

With critical:
- 3x 150% + 3x100% = 750%
- Shadow Partner > 750 * 1.5 = 1125%
Without critical:
- 3x 150% = 450%
- Shadow Partner > 450 * 1.5 = 675%

And uhm about Triple Throw + SE, how much is each hit then?
- 150% = basic
- 250% = normal critical
But:
- 250*1.4 = 350% = SE critical?
- 250+140 = 390% = SE critical?
- 250+240 = 480% = SE critical?

Explain plz! :)

Calculations - 2 have a major bug.

[(STR * 4.6 + DEX) / 100] * Weapon Attack

If you multiply that with 5 and divide by 4.6, you'll get a higher percentage than you should have because of the dex. You have to inject the 5.0 multiplier directly into the main stat.

But what I don't get, is what this thread is for. Uhm, well, I do, somewhat, but could you just explain it to me?
First, the thread is for anyone who's interested, and it came out of my interest to compare Pirates' Demolition / Cannon VS other classes damage per second... Now with these calculations I for myself could see they're indeed VERY overpowered compared to other classes, so there you have your reason... ;).

Second, no they're not incorrect. Let me explain:
- I used a 5.0 stat multiplier as reference for a 100% measurement:
--> 5.0x = 5.0/5.0 = 100%
--> 4.6x = 4.6/5.0 = 92%

Meaning, if a DPM value of e.g. 100.000% should be compared from a 4.6 to a 5.0 multiplier, you should multiply 100.000 by 0.92 (= 92.000%, ya for real :P). This to balance out the classes main stat has the same meaning to the attack's DPM stat.

Can't explain it any more clear then that... it's just how it works with comparing... :)

Dusk

2008-09-06, 07:03 PM

With critical:
- 3x 150% + 3x100% = 750%
- Shadow Partner > 750 * 1.5 = 1125%
Without critical:
- 3x 150% = 450%
- Shadow Partner > 450 * 1.5 = 675%

And uhm about Triple Throw + SE, how much is each hit then?
- 150% = basic
- 250% = normal critical
But:
- 250*1.4 = 350% = SE critical?
- 250+140 = 390% = SE critical?
- 250+240 = 480% = SE critical?

Explain plz! :)

That one. .65*390 + .35*150 = 306%.

First, the thread is for anyone who's interested, and it came out of my interest to compare Pirates' Demolition / Cannon VS other classes damage per second... Now with these calculations I for myself could see they're indeed VERY overpowered compared to other classes, so there you have your reason... ;).

Second, no they're not incorrect. Let me explain:
- I used a 5.0 stat multiplier as reference for a 100% measurement:
--> 5.0x = 5.0/5.0 = 100%
--> 4.6x = 4.6/5.0 = 92%

Meaning, if a DPM value of e.g. 100.000% should be compared from a 4.6 to a 5.0 multiplier, you should multiply 100.000 by 0.92 (= 92.000%, ya for real :P). This to balance out the classes main stat has the same meaning to the attack's DPM stat.

Can't explain it any more clear then that... it's just how it works with comparing... :)
Now that I understand your thread a little better, let me point out something. You completely ignore minimum damage. That's a big flaw. Most classes have 60% mastery, meaning .6*.9 = 54% of their main stat multiplier in minimum damage. NLs have 50% a main stat multiplier in minimum damage. Archers have 81% from Bow Expertise/Marksman Boost. DrKs have 72%. This changes your comparisons around by a lot. And I've ignored secondary stat damage bonuses. Better to run the real formulas.

Edit: Hmm. And what of secondary stats? Thieves would be weaker in this aspect because they need a lot of dex to equip their weapons, and archers would be slightly weaker too. Or do we assume that everyone has no equipment scrolled for their main stat and their secondary stat is buffed just enough to equip their weapon?

Finally, a 20 att shield seems kind of high. Since most classes have 7 slot shields, I think it'd be more appropriate to use 14.

Stereo

2008-09-06, 07:05 PM

The Night Lord is using a clean claw (54 atk) where the other classes get scrolled ones.
It should have 130 w.atk.

Maxed Advance Combo is 190%, not 150%, so bump up the Hero quite a bit too.

KaidaTan

2008-09-06, 07:10 PM

Ok fixed Bowmasters / Marksmen! Haha just totally forgot that it worked that way! :)

But about Triple Throw, no I used the correct value's! So damage without SE = Correct

With critical:
- 3x 150% + 3x100% = 750%
- Shadow Partner > 750 * 1.5 = 1125%
Without critical:
- 3x 150% = 450%
- Shadow Partner > 450 * 1.5 = 675%

And uhm about Triple Throw + SE, how much is each hit then?
- 150% = basic
- 250% = normal critical
But:
- 250*1.4 = 350% = SE critical?
- 250+140 = 390% = SE critical?
- 250+240 = 480% = SE critical?

Explain plz! :)

My mistake, I took the values from some calculations I did earlier, so the NL stuff is in % damage per second, not % damage per throw. But yeah, as Dusk said, it's the center one.

Night Lord - Triple Throw + SP + Critical +SE:
- 65% > 1755%
- 35% > 1125%
-- 100% = 1377%

Oh also, I would suggest doing DPS instead of DPM. DPS is a more practical, more usable number that is more easily compared to other classes. DPM is too large to be practical or to make sense if you want to see how fast you kill a monster. It only really helps when comparing damage on bosses that have tons of HP and don't attack.

Nikkey

2008-09-06, 07:19 PM

Second, no they're not incorrect. Let me explain:
- I used a 5.0 stat multiplier as reference for a 100% measurement:
--> 5.0x = 5.0/5.0 = 100%
--> 4.6x = 4.6/5.0 = 92%

Meaning, if a DPM value of e.g. 100.000% should be compared from a 4.6 to a 5.0 multiplier, you should multiply 100.000 by 0.92 (= 92.000%, ya for real :P). This to balance out the classes main stat has the same meaning to the attack's DPM stat.

Can't explain it any more clear then that... it's just how it works with comparing... :)

Whoops, I misread. It would still be incorrect though.

set str 700 and dex 100

[(700 * 5.0 + 100) / 100] * 100 = 3600 (given damage)

[(700 * 4.6 + 100) / 100] * 100 = 3320 (exact damage)

3600 * 4.6/5 = 3312 (calculated damage by your way)

But well, yeah, it's only an approximation I'd assume, so it doesn't matter that much :f3:

Devil

2008-09-06, 07:56 PM

That one. .65*390 + .35*150 = 306%.Ok, i'll add it! :)

Now that I understand your thread a little better, let me point out something. You completely ignore minimum damage. That's a big flaw. Most classes have 60% mastery, meaning .6*.9 = 54% of their main stat multiplier in minimum damage. NLs have 50% a main stat multiplier in minimum damage. Archers have 81% from Bow Expertise/Marksman Boost. DrKs have 72%. This changes your comparisons around by a lot. And I've ignored secondary stat damage bonuses. Better to run the real formulas.Currently I'm only doing MAX damage, AVG damage / minute will come later, after I have all classes right on MAX damage / minute. :)

Edit: Hmm. And what of secondary stats? Thieves would be weaker in this aspect because they need a lot of dex to equip their weapons, and archers would be slightly weaker too. Or do we assume that everyone has no equipment scrolled for their main stat and their secondary stat is buffed just enough to equip their weapon?

Finally, a 20 att shield seems kind of high. Since most classes have 7 slot shields, I think it'd be more appropriate to use 14.Secondary stats hardly add to damage, and if you mean one class needs more secondary stats to wear item, that's true, i'll look into it how to add it to the stats. However, the higher lvl you get to, the less it matters...

And about the shields... I'm also using CIlbies for Night Lords too... I could also start working with 20+ att Maple Shields... :)

The Night Lord is using a clean claw (54 atk) where the other classes get scrolled ones.
It should have 130 w.atk.

Maxed Advance Combo is 190%, not 150%, so bump up the Hero quite a bit too.Ok fixing it both! Tnx! :)

[...]

Night Lord - Triple Throw + SP + Critical +SE:
- 65% > 1755%
- 35% > 1125%
-- 100% = 1377%

Oh also, I would suggest doing DPS instead of DPM. DPS is a more practical, more usable number that is more easily compared to other classes. DPM is too large to be practical or to make sense if you want to see how fast you kill a monster. It only really helps when comparing damage on bosses that have tons of HP and don't attack.It wouldn't work for Shadowers, since their Combo takes more then 1 second... Also, DPM is most usefull for bosses... ;)

Whoops, I misread. It would still be incorrect though.

set str 700 and dex 100

[(700 * 5.0 + 100) / 100] * 100 = 3600 (given damage)

[(700 * 4.6 + 100) / 100] * 100 = 3320 (exact damage)

3600 * 4.6/5 = 3312 (calculated damage by your way)

But well, yeah, it's only an approximation I'd assume, so it doesn't matter that much :f3: 8/3320 = 0.24% error margin... nothing to worry about... ;)

Russt

2008-09-06, 08:47 PM

Devil

2008-09-06, 09:06 PM

Still, might as well use the real formulas, since it's not that much more effort anyway.

Also, calculating DPM your way allows for rounding error. For example, you state MM strafe as 83/minute, yet it's really 83.333/minute.

A much cleaner way is just to do the following:
(damage per 'combo') / (seconds per 'combo')

So strafe in damage % would be:
928% / 0.72s = 1288%/s.That's an error margin of 0,33%, I can live with that...:P When I have the time, i'll alter it... ;)

------------

Added "Calculations - 4" Section too now - Party Damage / Minute! :)

Dusk

2008-09-06, 10:21 PM

Cool, now those numbers are looking realistic. Heroes still look a bit low, though. Not sure what's going on there.

Edit: Actually, that does make sense. Kind of unfair for a skill that can hit 3 targets to outdamage every single-target skill except TT+SE.

Secondary stats hardly add to damage, and if you mean one class needs more secondary stats to wear item, that's true, i'll look into it how to add it to the stats. However, the higher lvl you get to, the less it matters...

I have 100 STR. That's worth 29 dex when you examine max damage and 54 dex when you examine min damage. For average damage, my 100 STR is worth about 38 dex. Considering that 38 dex makes more of a difference on my damage than MW9, and is the main factor in making normal BMs outdamage STRless, I think the secondary stat is pretty important. It'd be most important for archers and Shadowers, and kind of noticeable for warriors depending on how much dex they have.

Russt

2008-09-06, 10:47 PM

Actually, weapon attack is the main factor in making normal outdamage STRless. Damage from STR definitely helps, though.

JoeTang

2008-09-06, 10:55 PM

Cool, now those numbers are looking realistic. Heroes still look a bit low, though. Not sure what's going on there.

Edit: Actually, that does make sense. Kind of unfair for a skill that can hit 3 targets to outdamage every single-target skill except TT+SE.

I have 100 STR. That's worth 29 dex when you examine max damage and 54 dex when you examine min damage. For average damage, my 100 STR is worth about 38 dex. Considering that 38 dex makes more of a difference on my damage than MW9, and is the main factor in making normal BMs outdamage STRless, I think the secondary stat is pretty important. It'd be most important for archers and Shadowers, and kind of noticeable for warriors depending on how much dex they have.

You realize that your 100 STR is worth 96 DEX to a STR-Less Archer?

Dusk

2008-09-06, 11:55 PM

You realize that your 100 STR is worth 96 DEX to a STR-Less Archer?

STRless archers don't have 100 STR, so it's more like they get next to no damage from their secondary stat. Thank you for going off-topic o_o

Also, They would have 70 dex (can't count ZHelm or Deputy Star, or the overall, and I didn't even count my BH greaves since people generally prefer FS) more. Minus the bonus 67 STR I have instead of dex, they only have about 42 dex on me. At my level, that's about 8 attack, and that number is inversely proportional to level. I only use a 108 att Metus, but throw in people using 112 Arunds and 118 Nisrocks and better bows and have fun with that.

Actually, weapon attack is the main factor in making normal outdamage STRless. Damage from STR definitely helps, though.
I meant that most comparisons show the two options as about equal without regarding the difference in damage STR makes. As in, people who favor STRless will go on about how STRless have 100 more dex and how much weapon attack you need to overcome that.

Afrobean

2008-09-07, 07:50 AM

I was going to make a subclass comparison like this for Magicians, but now that you've done this, I fear I wouldn't generate compatible information. So instead I demand that you add Magicians here, definitely Mages at the very least.

Really, this would do more to help my cause too. Putting it side by side with the other classes would point out that an Arch Mage at full potential isn't quite as bad at single target as everyone thinks. I'd also like to see different sets computed for Mages based on their different attacks and how many they're hitting at once.

Also: since when is "damage per minute" a standard of measurement? Things like this more often work by a "damage per second" standard. Furthermore, punching it down to smaller numbers makes it easier to understand the variances in averages. And along this line, I'd also like to point out that certain skills need to be computed on an average basis based on how long the skills are able to be used or how often they can be used. Think about Pirates, they can't use their transformed states constantly. Other skills have cooldowns or require combos to be built up.

Devil

2008-09-07, 09:06 AM

Afrobean

2008-09-07, 09:35 AM

Oh if you want to make them for magicians, feel free to do so, because I still have no good idea how to compare wdef and mdef to each other... Feel free to post all the stats here, then i'll add them to the start post! I have no idea how the current magic damage formula works, since I last used the old (not so precise) one more then 2 years ago! :)
I wouldn't want to put myself in a position to pick magic stats that are comparable to the stats you're assuming for the other classes. And if I recall, there's someone close to cracking a more logical formula, one that doesn't use crazy decimals in standard quadratic form.

Also: I'm not even familiar with the specifics of how mdef functions. In fact, when the stat is the same, and the function of comparison is only to compare theoretical worth, def and/or mdef mean nothing. Like, if you have two values, 5 and 3, and you subtract one from each, it shows as 4 and 2. But the difference between 5 and 3 is equal to the difference between 4 and 2. But with wdef and mdef working differently it is worth considering.

Russt

2008-09-07, 12:28 PM

I'm not close, though Nekonecat of SW was. The magic one is a pretty difficult one to just pull out of a data chart, since if you divide by spell attack and subtract off the negligible INT bonus, what you have left is purely determined by total magic. There are no secondary stats to mess with. And secondary stats are really important for this kind of stuff.

Closest I can get is subtract max-min to find the range, and use that to divide the damage into mastery-affected and mastery-unaffected parts, but that's still somewhat iffy.

Dusk

2008-09-07, 01:12 PM

Also: since when is "damage per minute" a standard of measurement? Things like this more often work by a "damage per second" standard. Furthermore, punching it down to smaller numbers makes it easier to understand the variances in averages. And along this line, I'd also like to point out that certain skills need to be computed on an average basis based on how long the skills are able to be used or how often they can be used. Think about Pirates, they can't use their transformed states constantly. Other skills have cooldowns or require combos to be built up.

He isn't calculating damage per minute, he's just using the number of attacks per minute as a means for comparison. His end results are just proportional to each other, with no obvious relationship to actual damage per minute.

And yeah, adding information for nontransformed Pirates would be nice, they look overpowered as they are.

I wouldn't want to put myself in a position to pick magic stats that are comparable to the stats you're assuming for the other classes. And if I recall, there's someone close to cracking a more logical formula, one that doesn't use crazy decimals in standard quadratic form.
I think that would be rather easy, he's just running the numbers as if every equipment was pure 60%ed. It's a good average, I think, although I still think that if you have a 20 att Maple Shield, you're probably rich enough to afford something better than +14 for a weapon.

Russt

2008-09-07, 01:16 PM

On the contrary, the title of this thread says 'DPM Thread'.

As it stands it's more like a 'DPArbitraryButProportionalAmountOfTime Thread'.

Dusk

2008-09-09, 11:33 AM

Eh, the Vipers and Captains still need numbers for untransformed.

Devil

2008-09-09, 11:46 AM

Eh, the Vipers and Captains still need numbers for untransformed.Feel free to provide us with the timings and stats of those skills my friend! :)

I have no idea how Fist's damage is calculated, nor it's attacks per minute, same goes for Advanced Homing and Rapid Fire...

D-F1am3

2008-09-09, 04:14 PM

paladins can use lunchboxes right?o_o

Takebacker

2008-09-09, 04:31 PM

If i remember right, rapid fires at 480 SPM (or however much hurricane fires at, they're pretty much the same speed-wise).

For advanced homing you probably just have to multiply whatever the % of the skill being used is by 1.2. GS's don't have crit so it isn't as confusing. Though if they had SE, i can't help you with that.

Devil

2008-09-09, 04:55 PM

Another update! Added Onyx Apples to several classes for Party DPM!

paladins can use lunchboxes right?o_oI'll add those tomorrow! :)

Don't expect too much of it btw, since Paladins's non-elemental damage (read: bosses) is not that high... :(

If i remember right, rapid fires at 480 SPM (or however much hurricane fires at, they're pretty much the same speed-wise).

For advanced homing you probably just have to multiply whatever the % of the skill being used is by 1.2. GS's don't have crit so it isn't as confusing. Though if they had SE, i can't help you with that.Hurricane is 500 SPM atm... I would assume that Rapid Fire would have the same speed... unless Nexon nerfed it for some reason... (bullet consumption? :P)

Hmmmm... confusing... :o

Takebacker

2008-09-09, 05:04 PM

Another update! Added Onyx Apples to several classes for Party DPM!

I'll add those tomorrow! :)

Don't expect too much of it btw, since Paladins's non-elemental damage (read: bosses) is not that high... :(

Hurricane is 500 SPM atm... I would assume that Rapid Fire would have the same speed... unless Nexon nerfed it for some reason... (bullet consumption? :P)

Hmmmm... confusing... :o

It's probably 500 then. Lol, they're the same in SPM. Rapid isn't their main attack anyway, i just want to know the DPM.

Also, this officially confirms that cannon >>> demolition yes?

Devil

2008-09-09, 05:29 PM

It's probably 500 then. Lol, they're the same in SPM. Rapid isn't their main attack anyway, i just want to know the DPM.

Also, this officially confirms that cannon >>> demolition yes?I need to know how Battleship works:
- What happens to it when you "demount" from it, and resummon it (is that possible? Is it back 100% strength?)
- How much damage can a ship take before it's destroyed?

If you can demount and resummon all the time and if it would reset itself, then Battleship would be quite usefull for bosses indeed, and it would make a good rival for demolition.

Also keep in mind that Captains need a "Bishop / Dark Knight / Captain / X / X / X" party, because of their low HP, resulting is a DPM that is a lot lower then a 6 Viper party, because of only 4 (instead of 6) High DPM attackers...

Edit: Added "Rapid Fire DPM" - If it is indeed 500 SPM... :)

Takebacker

2008-09-09, 05:44 PM

I need to know how Battleship works:
- What happens to it when you "demount" from it, and resummon it (is that possible? Is it back 100% strength?)
- How much damage can a ship take before it's destroyed?

If you can demount and resummon all the time and if it would reset itself, then Battleship would be quite usefull for bosses indeed, and it would make a good rival for demolition.

Also keep in mind that Captains need a "Bishop / Dark Knight / Captain / X / X / X" party, because of their low HP, resulting is a DPM that is a lot lower then a 6 Viper party, because of only 4 (instead of 6) High DPM attackers...

Battleship is pretty much exactly the same as a mount.

-The only thing demounting does is protect your ship from damage (essential for bossing so it doesn't break down so easily, a good captain should be able to demount whenever he's about to take damage and remount to attack again) and allow you to use other skills (reactivating advanced homing for example). I'm PRETTY darn sure that if you remount, it still remembers the damage left until it breaks down. Meaning remounting won't reset the threshold to 0 again.

-That's the only thing i don't know. KMS captains max it after cannon though, so the difference between level 1 and 10 must be significant considering the few minutes of cooldown you gain if it breaks down. From what i've seen in videos though, the threshold is actually fairly big (i'm thinking anywhere from 50-75k? MAYBE 100k, but that's a major stretch)

Vipers would probably need DrKs and bishops anyway. Their HP is only roughly twice that of a shadowers (which is fair since shadowers have 50% damage from MG and it's REALLY hard to hit them in the first place anyway) and so they'd still need to use HB to survive. Bishops are self explanatory. Lol. Best party = DrK, bishop, shadower, viper, captain x2? Imagine smoke shell and spamming cannon. Epic.

Captains actually have more HP than BMs. (like 200-300 or so) I'm starting to think they might outdamage NLs and MAYBE BMs...Can you run the numbers for the three? :X (if that's not too much trouble :[)

Edit: Don't forget advanced homing? Lol.

Might wanna take out that last part too. "Rapid fire will be added once i know the bullets per minute"

QSCX

2008-09-09, 09:25 PM

Maybe I looked over the calculations too quickly or soemthing, but did you consider that Brandish hits 3 monsters at max level? So it's 260% x 2 x 3.

Oops, nevermind, looks like its just for hitting one monster at a time.

Technolink

2008-09-10, 03:07 PM

max se+ 5 hermits ftw

It can be done with Hp washing....

Dusk

2008-09-10, 03:22 PM

Also keep in mind that Captains need a "Bishop / Dark Knight / Captain / X / X / X" party, because of their low HP, resulting is a DPM that is a lot lower then a 6 Viper party, because of only 4 (instead of 6) High DPM attackers...

Vipers need HP washing to survive Horntail without HB (at least before 16xish). A Bishop isn't needed if you're going solely for damage comparisons.

And damn, that NL+SE+Apple damage looks unreasonably high. I'm pretty sure they don't outdamage every other class by that margin.

Edit: Oh wait, that's right, this is still completely max damage. Way too early to conclude anything. You should really just work with average damage, since you're already using average numbers for classes who crit. If you wanted to use max damage for Bowmasters, you'd have to use 340% per arrow, which would mean hitting the highest damage possible and critting 100% of the time. So do average damage, please.

Average numbers:
Two Handed Sword - [(STR * 3.542 + DEX) / 100] * Weapon Attack
One Handed Sword - [(STR * 3.080 + DEX) / 100] * Weapon Attack
Spear - [(STR * 4.3 + DEX) / 100] * Weapon Attack

Thieves
Dagger - [(LUK * 2.772 + STR + DEX) / 100]* Weapon Attack
L7 / TT - [(LUK * 3.75) / 100] * Weapon Attack

Archers
Bow - [(DEX * 3.077 + STR) / 100] * Weapon Attack
Crossbow - [(DEX * 3.258 + STR) / 100] * Weapon Attack

Pirates
Knuckle - [(DEX * 3.696 + STR) / 100] * Weapon Attack
Gun - [(DEX * 2.772 + STR) / 100] * Weapon Attack

That's all you'd have to change, basically. Just change the multipliers to the listed numbers, and the comparisons would suddenly be a lot more fair. NLs (50% min/max ratio) have a 3.75 instead of a 5 multiplier, while Marksmen (81% m/x) only drop from 3.6 to 3.258. It makes a huge difference, believe me.

ahoboandahal

2008-09-10, 03:35 PM

Why cant paladins use a lunch box? :f6:

Takebacker

2008-09-10, 04:26 PM

Why cant paladins use a lunch box? :f6:

He didn't do it yet. Not like paladins go 1h anyway.

Russt

2008-09-10, 08:11 PM

What's wrong with 1h?

Devil

2008-09-10, 08:27 PM

What's wrong with 1h?Brandish 1H -or- 2H = same (LONG) range.

Blast 1H = 1H Range
Blast 2H = 2H Range

Don't ask me why, it's just Nexon... :)

That's why most Paladins go with the Ribgol 2H Fast Sword...

P.S. I'll add more data another time... had to get to 5000HP on my Blood Shadower first today! :P

Kalovale

2008-09-13, 04:48 AM

Dark Knight
Spear - Crusher (with Berserk) - Fast (5) - 870ms - 69 / min

Since when could an OS do 69 Crushers per minute? o_O

EDIT: I did some research and found out where you got it wrong.
Crusher (3hits) has Fast(5) speed = 990 ms/attack, not 870.

And sorry cause I didn't really read, but is this so-called DPS applied to single mob? I don't see Fury (Berserked) or ACB there at all, and apparently what makes a Pally sexy is not Blast. o-o

Russt

2008-09-13, 12:37 PM

Brandish 1H -or- 2H = same (LONG) range.

Blast 1H = 1H Range
Blast 2H = 2H Range

Don't ask me why, it's just Nexon... :)

That's why most Paladins go with the Ribgol 2H Fast Sword...

P.S. I'll add more data another time... had to get to 5000HP on my Blood Shadower first today! :P
Screw range, it's all about the DPS...
...ehh...
...not like I've played a warrior past level 35.

D-F1am3

2008-09-13, 09:55 PM

i dont really care about range, i like DPS and range isnt as useful since im not even going bosses to fight, and it'll raise my speed at skele, so lunchbox + paladin = win =]

Devil

2008-09-14, 11:11 AM

i dont really care about range, i like DPS and range isnt as useful since im not even going bosses to fight, and it'll raise my speed at skele, so lunchbox + paladin = win =]Ok added Paladin with lunchbox & corrected Dark Knight Crusher speeds.

anonnywho

2008-09-14, 07:08 PM

I'm making a DPS calculator and simulator.
the first version : http://www.zshare.net/flash/1878635694175248/

It's not without bugs. There is also a lot of features I want to add. My goal is to make something more dynamic and deep than hidden street's calcs, using this data, and usable by every class. This version only has Archer data, as it's the easiest and can hammer out sim bugs easily. I'll defiantly need help will the sin simulations.

A party creation feature will also be added once all the classes simulators are finished.
Other things such as buildable skill books (not maxed) will also be added.

-Is there any "cast" time data? Meaning, in a 10 min window, how much time will be taken up casting SE, and other buffs.
-How does MS role to integers? Is it just nearest integer, highest, or lowest?
-The Maple Warrior buff is buggy. If you are going to add base or equipment stat point, make sure the buff is turned off.

Stereo

2008-09-14, 07:44 PM

MS rounds against the player in all cases, meaning decrease player damage, increase monster damage. However, damage is capped to the [1,99999] range which means any damage below 1 is normally rounded to 1.

I believe it's been shown that it rounds skill damage after the skill multipliers are added to the base, but before "special skill" effects that vary by monster (Slashblast FA, Iron Arrow, Pierce). In this case, if it is rounded to 1 before these multipliers are applied, and then drops below 1, it will miss.

Technolink

2008-09-14, 07:54 PM

anonnywho

2008-09-14, 08:12 PM

Thats another question about Pierce, how does the initial hits compute compaired to the max?

Russt

2008-09-14, 08:21 PM

And continuing that logic, if something like Pierce caps at 99,999, then it means the 6th monster cap would be 248829 with a 1.2 multiplier, meaning our 250k cap is fine now.
I thought we had a 200k cap.

RFSurg

2008-09-15, 03:21 PM

The Brandish + SE section is wrong; Max Brandish + Max SE is :

(Base Damage + Crit Addition)Combo Multiplier x Hits

(2.6 + 1.4)1.9 x 2

Crit is only +2.4 for classes with +1 base crit

Devil

2008-09-15, 06:06 PM

The Brandish + SE section is wrong; Max Brandish + Max SE is :

(Base Damage + Crit Addition)Combo Multiplier x Hits

(2.6 + 1.4)1.9 x 2

Crit is only +2.4 for classes with +1 base critFixed! :)

Working on implementing Magic Max DPM atm.... Can't tell when that will be finished... :P

Devil

2008-09-29, 02:05 PM

Ok I just added my first attempt of Magic DPM comparision VS other classes in 4th job... it's still very experimental, so don't take it too serious. (also take in mind that AoE's dmg is on 1 monster, so multiply by 15 for max result (lol way too overpowered, but ok...)

The problem is that Magician's "Weapon Attack" is fixed forever and imbedded with the Skills (base attack). The only thing that magicians upgrade is their AP's which are not included directly in the calculations...

Most likely the max damage / minute will be a bit higher (+10%), but I don't know how to add it to the calculations, but when I find it out, I'll add it!

Also the magic formula I used, is the "old" one, since that one was the most easy to convert to a "weapon attack" formula...

Just see it as a very global comparision, it's better then nothing... ;)

Stereo

2008-10-02, 03:48 PM

Right now your Mage comparison is squaring the elemental bonus >_>

First you produce 192/288% dpa (percent per attack), then you multiply to get 16000/24000%/min, then you balance off the class formulas (14207%/21311%), then you compare the spell attack again (15587%/35072%), which implies that elemental damage is 2.3 times as strong as neutral damage.

I would make the percentage per attacks as follows:
100% neutral Bishop
135% neutral Arch Mage
148.5% neutral Arch Mage + elemental weapon
150% elemental Bishop
202.5% elemental Arch Mage
222.75% elemental Arch Mage + elemental weapon
Then you don't put neutral & elemental on the same line & confuse things.

There's also the fact that their primary stat is (int+m.atk), not just (int), so you might toss in a 1.15 to 1.2x multiplier to adjust for that (900 int & 180 m.atk =>1080 magic).

An estimate for the mage formula (4.4*magic) is also way off.

At 700 magic (beginning 4th job, maybe 10x-11x for well equipped), it's ~6.1, at 1200 magic (150-170) it's ~7.7 , at 1500 magic (near 200 this is barely possible) it is ~8.8.

I implemented the basic magic damage formula here (http://www.jonbuder.com/Stereo/Java/magicDamageCalc.htm) if you need to play around with numbers or something. I think it's accurate on 0def, not sure about implementation of defense formula (mages are all jerks who won't lift a finger to find out how much damage they actually do :P)

Russt

2008-10-02, 08:10 PM

What formula do you use? Is it universally accurate and clean? I'm a stickler for clean formulas, since they're much more likely to be the ones Nexon use (and therefore universally accurate).

Stereo

2008-10-03, 08:33 AM

It is universally accurate but I can't say if it's written in the form Nexon uses, it's quadratic and there are lots of factoring options there.

Russt

2008-10-03, 07:26 PM

May I see it?

Devil

2008-10-07, 04:38 PM

Updated Marksmen DPM, with the recent 200k damage cap for Snipe, for when that is coming to gMS... :P

They seem REALLY close to Bowmasters on damage now, only with near lvl200 damage ranges (max 5000), their Snipe cap becomes their downside (since it's still fixed at 200k then). When Nexon pushes the damage cap even more (300k and beyond?), they will become VERY, VERY powerfull! :)

Allen

2008-10-13, 08:33 AM

I'd like to see this analysis done with more fluctuating weapon attacks. This can easily be done by plotting all the damage formulas on to a graph (W.ATK vs DPS). I can start working on this and I'll put up what I can produce.

Nikkey

2008-10-13, 08:39 AM

Thats another question about Pierce, how does the initial hits compute compaired to the max?

huh? All attacks after the first hit is just multiplied by 1.2 from the attack in front.

Obike

2008-10-14, 03:35 PM

Your list is missing Axes, BW, and PA's! That's like half the potential warriors! Though... we all know that we probably only make up around 2% of the warrior population ._.;

Also, I thought Combo was 1.95 or 2.0... I'll have to test that someday, kinda annoying to do with an axe hero though, since I'd have to differentiate between the hits. . .

If you plan on adding Axe/BW/PA just keep in mind... Brandish is always 1 stab 1 swing and blast is left to chance, supposedly 60% chance of slashing and 40% chance of stabbing, even though it's visually idenical no matter what form of attack it is mechanically. 2h Axes and BW have a 4.8 multiplier with swing, 3.4 with stab. 1h Axes and BW have a 4.4 multiplier with swing, 3.2 with stab. PA have 5.0 swing, 3.0 stab, but if you're going to use PA Crusher (EWWWWWWW.) 3.0 x 3 hits. </3

I'll have to verify Combo's multiplier and how SE effects it. I've heard it as (Base*Skill + SE)*Combo and as Base*Skill*Combo + SE...

Dusk

2008-10-26, 01:55 PM

Obike

2008-10-28, 01:58 PM

It doesn't matter, as his numbers are all based on maximum possible damage and average skill damage. He'd have to use 4.8 for axes and BWs instead of a medium number.

Average Skill Damage is EXACTLY why he would need to use a medium number. Using 4.8 would make it WRONG. It'd almost be like saying your bow has a damage formula of 4.0 why? I dunno. 4.8's way too high for Brandish. It is because that Brandish is a stab + Slash that 2h axes basically get a 4.1 multiplier MAXIMUM and 1h get a 3.8 multiplier max. Thus 4.8 and 4.4 would be just as ridiculous as using 4.0 for a bow. Changing the skill % into whatever that would be equivalent to averaging the multipliers would just be extra calculations and wasted effort.

Also, just a comment on his layout~ Although I didn't bother to spend the time to check all his math (I'm relatively sure he spent the time double checking them anyways), I don't like his layout, at least not for the heroes section. Being that I am a hero, 1h and 2h means absolutely nothing in % Damage per minute. There are Slow(7), Normal(6), Fast(5), and Fast(4) 2h swords as well as fast(5) fast(4) and even a Fast(3) 1h sword (Though the Fast 3 is almost useless).

Edit : I just realized that he based it off the level 120 swords, so their speeds would be defined. . . But I still think varying speeds of 1h and 2h should be shown, with % comparisons instead of finite number-to-number comparisons. Or have a constant attack with varying speeds... or even constant DPM with varying attacks, adjusted to equivalency via speed differences... I think this would be more useful to heroes-to-be that aren't sure what weapon to use in the future. But that's just my opinion, agree or disagree on your own volition.

ThatHurts

2008-10-28, 06:53 PM

There are Slow(7), Normal(6), Fast(5), and Fast(4) 2h swords as well as fast(5) fast(4) and even a Fast(3) 1h sword (Though the Fast 3 is almost useless).

Well, just as an fyi, with booster, faster(3) = fast(4). Other than that, there really is little pratical application of showing the D/T for weapons that don't exist. If you're looking for attacks/min for other speed weapons, you can just check here: http://www.southperry.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3217

Obike

2008-10-31, 05:46 AM

Well, just as an fyi, with booster, faster(3) = fast(4). Other than that, there really is little pratical application of showing the D/T for weapons that don't exist. If you're looking for attacks/min for other speed weapons, you can just check here: http://www.southperry.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3217

Yeah I know Fast 3 and 4 with booster are the same, that's why I said the faster (3) was pretty much useless xD When I first posted the different speed things, I was refering to actual various weapons that do exist =T but the speed list + %'s from this list pretty much cover what I was getting at. x3

Stereo

2008-10-31, 10:08 AM

If you wanted 2h Axe/BW damage, just multiply his numbers by 0.92 (60/40 swing stab) or 0.89 (50/50 - brandish).

& 1h axe/bw are the same speed as 2h swords, so comparison there can go by multiplying by 0.85 & 0.82.

Due to the nature of the items he's using, there's a 2 watk bonus for 2h axe/bw, and a 2 watk penalty for 1h axe/bw (then increase for shields).

Obike

2008-11-04, 12:39 AM

Chameleonic

2008-11-09, 08:40 AM

I tried to understand things...but math goes over my head. :f3:

How do MM compare to Corsairs? I'm thinking of ditching my MM and making a Corsair...or Bowmaster. lol

Devil

2008-11-10, 04:33 PM

Updated Corsairs / Buccaneers (Captains/Vipers...) damage and party damage! :)

Chameleonic

2008-11-12, 12:39 AM

Some charts or graphs to help make sense of the math would be much appreciated for those of us who are more visual minded. :f2:

Dusk

2008-11-17, 02:36 AM

Still waiting on average damage...these numbers are so skewed.

Takebacker

2008-11-17, 02:41 AM

Some charts or graphs to help make sense of the math would be much appreciated for those of us who are more visual minded. :f2:

I'm sure a spreadsheet won't be that hard to work out once he has average damage finished.

iFrancisco

2008-11-19, 12:12 PM

Very nice work on the thread. I have been glancing over it some (for Shadowers haha) and notcied this:

Shadower:
Assassinate + Bstep Combo - Faster (2):
-- Bstep 1950 - 720 - 720 = 510ms
-- Dark Sight (in+out) - 500ms (self timed)
-- Assassinate 3 hit - 1380ms
-- Assassinate last hit - 300ms (self timed)
--- Total - 2690 ms - 22.3 / min

I do not know if you intentionally counted the last lunge of assassinate or not, but in the DS/Assassinate/BS Macro, the last lunge is canceled. Unless this yields a higher DPM, then this makes sense, but is not reasonable at some bosses.

jojojo

2008-11-19, 11:26 PM

excuseme, what means '' ms '' ? =x

Dusk

2008-11-20, 12:26 AM

excuseme, what means '' ms '' ? =x

Milliseconds. A millisecond is 1/1000 of one second. That's the delay between the cast of each skill.

Edit: LazyBui's Demolition times indicate that you overestimated Demolition's speed by about 50%. Running the numbers with his speeds, Buccaneers are weaker than Shadowers while spamming Demolition... I think something's wrong here.

Tamillan

2008-12-29, 10:10 PM

Hmm Demolition with SI and Knuckle Booster is only 26/min. I timed it multiple times spamming in the free market. So this makes a huge difference in your calculations.