Pierce Speed and Damage

[JoeTang]

What's the fastest you can shoot Pierce?

Post your shots per minute with your crossbow speed and if booster is on or not. I want to confirm whether or not it's the regular shooting speed of a Crossbow.

Anyways, slightly more importantly, post your minimum/maximum uncharged and fully charged with the skill level.

[Technolink]

lolz, your not gonna get anyone Joe. The question should be "Marksmen, please frap 30 seconds of you shooting Peirce", then calculate it yourself.

From initial observations, it appears to be charge time + .73s of attacking movements (reg + booster).

Much more important is the second part, as we need to confirm 1.18 or 1.1, though judging by how Xbish and everyone is breaking the limit, 1.18 seems more plausible.

[Beaner]

ill help you with the max.

max 1st hit 54k
max 6th hit 168k

thats what i have seen. this is on 0 def monsters. but i havent done extensive tests so it prob is a lil off

[JoeTang]

I'm sticking with 1.18 for my calculations since that's what it was in the past. Well, it's 1.185 in my code. Do you know where that came from? I can't recall where I got the multiplier from. I am using 0.90 for Iron Arrow though, since v0.90.

From what XBish posted, it's 1.25 <_< It should only be 126k max if he can only hit 54k on the first monster. Post your damage range. With our current formula, your max on the first monster should be ~72k.

I'm assuming a charge time of 2 seconds right now, and I did work in the base firing rate since I assumed that uncharged, you would shoot at normal speed.

Anyways, I wanted to find the uncharged damage modifier since the one in Sapph's post is some random thing he pulled from some random place without confirmation. 50% damage uncharged is ridiculously high. Big Bang's is <20%, ~15%.

[Beaner]

my range is 6451 max with a warrior elixer. truth be told i dont really look at my first hit, i just care about the last XD. i trew a few pierces now on rashes and saw a 58k.

[Russt]

Okay... so there are three things we're looking for here?

Tap rate, piercing-through, and charge.

@JT: Pay attention to the colors in that thread. As a rule, never quote me on the blue or red stuff, unless you have a fair idea where it came from. I know I sort of lump stuff into those categories, and they all have varying degrees of confirmation from very-nearly-accurate to complete BS, but I don't want to overcomplicate things.

[Dusk]

I'm sticking with 1.18 for my calculations since that's what it was in the past. Well, it's 1.185 in my code. Do you know where that came from? I can't recall where I got the multiplier from. I am using 0.90 for Iron Arrow though, since v0.90.

From what XBish posted, it's 1.25 <_< It should only be 126k max if he can only hit 54k on the first monster. Post your damage range. With our current formula, your max on the first monster should be ~72k.

I'm assuming a charge time of 2 seconds right now, and I did work in the base firing rate since I assumed that uncharged, you would shoot at normal speed.

Anyways, I wanted to find the uncharged damage modifier since the one in Sapph's post is some random thing he pulled from some random place without confirmation. 50% damage uncharged is ridiculously high. Big Bang's is <20%, ~15%.

You don't know how critical factors into things. It'd probably be a better idea to find the formula using shots that don't crit.

[Kevvl]

Crit would work the same way as it does in IronArrow, being multiplied along with the damage %.

[Technolink]

my range is 6451 max with a warrior elixer. truth be told i dont really look at my first hit, i just care about the last XD. i trew a few pierces now on rashes and saw a 58k.

6451*8.5=54.8k
6451*(8.5+2.4) = 70.3k crit
So unless the 58k was critical (I assume it is), its not your max.

non crit 6th
6451*(8.5*1.18^5) = 125k
6451*(8.5*1.1^5) = 88k

crit 6th
6451*(8.5+2.4)*1.18^5 = 161k doesn't work (reported max 168k)
6451*(8.5+2.4)*1.11^5 = 113k definitely disproved.

So lets try 1.185
6451*(8.5+2.4)*1.185^5 = 164k still doesn't work.
Solving:
6451*(8.5+2.4)*x^5=168,000, x= 1.1903

1.19 yeilds 167.8k, not enough, so we can conclude that the Peirce multiplier is >1.19, and can possibly be 1.2

Running with 1.2 Xbish's max crit is 175kish (just under), and if that 168k was on rashes, that'd be a cool 172k which fits nicely with his 168k

So I assume 1.2 pierce multiplier. We never EVER confirmed it at 1.18, we only assumed it was inverted IA, but it very well maynot be.

When Peirce first came out I had abba do some tests and I think it was 15% tap with a linear charge, new tests can help.

[JoeTang]

You don't know how critical factors into things. It'd probably be a better idea to find the formula using shots that don't crit.

I do know how Critical Factors into things. If what he posted was really his max damage, it wouldn't matter.

[Technolink]

I'd imagine it works lke IA. If it doesn't use IA's formula, then to match 168k, it would have to be over 1.25 multiplier.

[Beaner]

the 168 was on pap bombs which have 0 def. i can only do the tests 5-6 times a day so its hard to figure the numbers there. 168 is the highest i have seen and have a ss of. i hit 178k with a 25 attack pot but i dont have a ss to prove it. i am going to shoot stuff to see max dmg on 1st monster as soon as i feel like mapling. but i sure dont remember ever seeing something close to 70k o_O.

ill take ss and post everything here later today.

[KaidaTan]

Pap bombs have 300 defense.

[Beaner]

so i am blind i guess.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j255/carlos90_photos/MapleStory2008-08-2817-44-21-39.jpg

this is the higest i saw for about 10mins at rashes.

i always though bombs had 0 def since the dmg always so high. anyways 68 almost 69k on rashes

[Technolink]

Some people rumor Pierce ignores wdef, and that's entirely possible. Its easily proven by testing at something with lots of wdef. Assuming max damage of 6451 again we see:
6451*(8.5+2.4) = 70k max damage (which you 69k fits nicely into). That was fully charged right?
Factoring rash's 235 wdef: 69035 max, which also fits, but it a tad too close for my comfort. As of now we can't confirm if Pierce takes wdef or not, a few more maxs (or mins) and it'll be fine.

If its worth brining up, what if the min of Pierce isn't the same multiplier as its max? I think we need some min and max damages (crits doesn't matter), a pretty large sample size would be nice. Any number of monsters 3+ will work great.

1 monster we have no problem on, its the multiple monsters we don't know if its a 1.18, 1.185, or 1.2 multiplier. Its definitely not 1.1

[KaidaTan]

One of those monsters should be Anego to make your life a little easier.

[Technolink]

One of those monsters should be Anego to make your life a little easier.

And with Anego's high wdef (be it 2000 or 3000), its an easy confirmation of if Pierce passes ignores wdef. Also easy to test tap charges on.

[Russt]

On the topic of inverse IA, IA's multiplier was actually shown to be 0.8 on a v.55 server. I asked one of my, er, contacts to get me some glitched up stats (0 dex, 25000 str) and yeah.

So 1.2 would be the additive inverse and probably the most likely result. The multiplicative inverse is 1.25 but I dunno...

[Kevvl]

Try using absolutely no gear, and just a clean level 12 Xbow. It would make us have to collect a whole bunch of new data, but the range would be smaller =P

[Technolink]

Yea, who ever said 82% for IA too? That was never actually confirmed, it was generally accepted. With these crazy str archers on private servers, we see so much more now.

1.25 is entirely possible, but a tad too much, .8/1.2 sounded good before, but now its probably .9/1.2

I'm sure if they nerfed pierce, xbows would be in absolulte UPROAR.

[JoeTang]

Yea, who ever said 82% for IA too? That was never actually confirmed, it was generally accepted. With these crazy str archers on private servers, we see so much more now.

1.25 is entirely possible, but a tad too much, .8/1.2 sounded good before, but now its probably .9/1.2

I'm sure if they nerfed pierce, xbows would be in absolulte UPROAR.

I think 0.82 was confirmed for IA a long time ago, and they updated it with v0.56 along with the increased base damage at level 1.

[Technolink]

Well apparently it was .8 at v.55

My question is how was it confirmed, remember .02 isn't really an enormously huge number when we're dealing with IA (beacuse of its 1.8 base), its only a 7.8% difference on the last number, that can be hard to notice without a full str archer (as Sap mentioned).

Either way, that's the past, until further notice I like .9/1.2, but further testing would be nice. Xbish, if you could do a test on something with high def (skeles maybe?) so we can see if Pierce doesn't use wdef, and more damage samples (on w/e, skeles would be fine) could help as well ^^

[Chameleonic]

I dont think it does ignore wep def. I aggroed birks and got them to do their def up and Pierce did half the damage it normally does.

[Technolink]

Does sacrifice and assaulter (which we know ignores wdef, assaulter only if you're above the lvl of the monster) ignore the wdef up? I think sacrifice does, but I'm pretty sure assaulter (again, which does ignore wdef in the same way we think Pierce may) does not.

Ie. Pierce might work like assaulter, and assaulter deals 1's to wdefed up monsters (I think)

There's 1 way and 1 way only to solve this question. Mass amounts of samples and field-observation, like with the PKB, F/p, wdef, Venom, and heal formulas, Pierce is just another one of those things.

Easy thing to do: Pierce a skele a few times, see if the damage goes below min*8.5, if it doesn't, case closed, if it does even once, then that means it does take wdef.

Seriously, MM, this question is killing me!

[Russt]

Tespia STR marksman.
We should come up with a pre-emptive name for him so I don't have to type that out every time.

[Technolink]

RoidsArrow

I think we can all agree on that.

[Russt]

Why?

[Technolink]

Cause he'll have a crap load of unnatural str.

[Russt]

And so do all warriors, and soon infighters.

[Technolink]

No, they have natural str, being the 5 per level kind.

RoidsArrow is going to have the crazy weird Tespia drugged kind, if the glitch persists to the next one.

[Russt]

It's jigajuice I tell you.

[Kevvl]

RoidsArrow. I like it =P