Post-1.2.318 Damage Calculations [Archive]

Russt

2010-06-20, 08:21 PM

Consolidating what we know so far:
- Weapon Attack is still proportional to damage
- Minimum damage is obtained from maximum by straight multiplication by mastery
- Base mastery depends on weapon and skill mastery adds to it
-- Guns are 15%
-- 15% ranged, 20% melee, 25% magic?
- Base critical rate is 5% and skill critical adds to it
- Physical and magical "rate" acts as a penalty modifier, such that PDRate = 10 reduces physical damage by 10%
- Magic Attack is now proportional to magic damage and separate from INT, which makes magic damage similar to physical damage
- Magic Attack is partially dependent on LUK
- Physical and magical avoid are now separate entities

Stereo

2010-06-21, 05:54 PM

Base mastery depends on weapon actually - apparently 15% ranged, 20% melee, 25% magic.

Phoenix Wright

2010-06-21, 11:17 PM

Russt, it might be worth it to clarify that PDRate =10 only reduces PHYSICAL damage by 10%, and that MDRate exists as a counterpart to PDRate.

Fiel

2010-06-22, 12:26 AM

Can it also be said that magic damage is partially dependent on LUK as well?

Tikey

2010-06-22, 02:58 AM

Can it also be said that magic damage is partially dependent on LUK as well?

I believe so, as we saw in the other thread that LUK increased the damage range for magic at very low increments. I would like to say that the formula might be similar to physical damage now.

Cyanne

2010-06-22, 11:53 AM

If anyone wants a shot at the new exp formula:

Level 1: 15
Level 2: 34
Level 3: 57
Level 4: 92
Level 5: 135
Level 6: 372
Level 7: 560
Level 8: 840
Level 9: 1242
Level 10: 1242
Level 11: 1242
Level 12: 1242
Level 13: 1242
Level 14: 1242
Level 15: 1490
Level 16: 1788
Level 17: 2146
Level 18: 2575
Level 19: 3090
Level 20: 3708
Level 21: 4450
Level 22: 5340
Level 23: 6408
Level 24: 7690
Level 25: 9228
Level 26: 11074
Level 27: 13289
Level 28: 15947
Level 29: 19136
Level 30: 19136
Level 31: 19136
Level 32: 19136
Level 33: 19136
Level 34: 19136
Level 35: 22963
Level 36: 27556
Level 37: 33067
Level 38: 39680
Level 39: 47616
Level 40: 51425
Level 41: 55539
Level 42: 59982
Level 43: 64781
Level 44: 69963
Level 45: 75560
Level 46: 81605
Level 47: 88133
Level 48: 95184
Level 49: 102799
Level 50: 111023

Phoenix Wright

2010-06-22, 04:58 PM

Level 8: 840
Level 9: 1242
Level 10: 1242
Level 11: 1242
Level 12: 1242
Level 13: 1242
Level 14: 1242
Level 15: 1490

O.o

That's just a little bit confusing...why would it halt at a single value like that for 5 levels?

Link

2010-06-22, 05:02 PM

O.o

That's just a little bit confusing...why would it halt at a single value like that for 5 levels?

They do that at level 69ish as well. I noticed at level 71, I had the same EXP-to-next-level requirement that I had at level 69.

shroum

2010-06-22, 05:04 PM

o.o possibly the lower level one is so that they can set the same amount of exp award for first job quests?

Phoenix Wright

2010-06-22, 05:24 PM

If there is an equation for that, I do not want to try to figure it out. Exp staying the same at several levels makes things significantly more confusing.

hadriel

2010-06-22, 05:50 PM

Or you could think of it as a kind of artificial interference... in that you intentionally pull some of these EXP gains over several levels so that levelling with those new skills and new maps (probably you moved to another location? From Vic. to Orbis etc?) would become easier... I notice that these stunts are pulled only at job advancement levels, as of what I can gather right now that is.

Which might mean that for any kind of formula, just go ahead and try. Ignore those rubber-band experience levels first. I've not seen any formula in my life that doesn't require additional IFs/etc logic statements and is just plain simple algebric expression to keep something constant, save for compound functions (no that's not fair either.)

Hadriel

Hazzy

2010-06-22, 06:00 PM

If there is an equation for that, I do not want to try to figure it out. Exp staying the same at several levels makes things significantly more confusing.

Piece-wise functions...?
Just run a Regression program 4 or 5 times (I assume once for each Adventurer job advancement) , instead of once.

hadriel

2010-06-22, 06:06 PM

No kidding me... Looks like we have separate EXP functions for each advancement, based on what Cyanne gave us...

This is cluttered... don't see much...

http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/xx204/cbdccb/EXPconelastic.jpg

But when you take out the elastic region, you get...

http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/xx204/cbdccb/EXPsanselastic.jpg

Hadriel

Stereo

2010-06-22, 06:18 PM

Not a perfect fit because of all the nonlinearities but it's a fair approximation:

[(Level+5)/3]^4

The weird thing about the plateaus IMO is that they behave differently for 1st/2nd job advancements.

At the first, the exp/level spikes in the 5 levels leading up to it, then plateaus.
At the second, the exp/level plateaus, then spikes in the 5 levels following it.

Dusk

2010-06-22, 06:50 PM

They probably just applied a multiplier to the existing numbers. I assume there's some kind of limits on what the exp TNLs can be (i.e., exp > 1242 for 1st job)

Locked

2010-06-22, 07:44 PM

96.74*1.2^level

Assuming 14 ≤ level ≤ 30

It seems to change depending on job advancement though.

Cyanne

2010-06-22, 08:26 PM

96.74*1.2^(level - 5) fits almost perfectly with 33 < level < 40 also. It seems as though there's one curve for 1-8, another for 9-39, another for 40-?, etc. with 5-level pauses for the first five levels of each job advancement.

Knight5n1p3r

2010-06-23, 02:12 PM

Probably the best approximation possible for the data set:
(0.06044) * x ^ (3.687)

Including error bars:
(0.06044 +/- 0.01744) * x ^ (3.687 +/- 0.07587)

Finding a function that will perfectly model that data is nearly impossible with those flat lines. Although one exists, it will be ridiculously long. Probably the best way to find an good approximation would be to chop it up between the flat areas, and smashing it into one equation.

Do we have the experience values from 51-200?

Dusk

2010-06-23, 08:56 PM

I've been trying to find the damage formulas for all the new weapons. They aren't likely to change again, and they are quite a bit different than the old formulas.

All of the new formulas seem to take the form multiplier x (4x primary stat + secondary stat) * ([magic/weapon] attack/100). Minimum damage is directly based on the rounded maximum damage, rather than it's own formula. Minimum damage is found with simple multiplier of the max damage. The base mastery depends on the weapon being used, with ranged weapons getting 15% mastery, melee getting 20%, and magic getting 25%. They also seem to use rounding (0.5+ = round up, else round down) instead of truncating.

The following isn't 100% accurate for sure, but they seem to work for every screenshot I can find. I'll assume they're the real formulas until someone can post a screenshot that proves otherwise. As you can see from just this data, the whole damage range hierarchy has been completely upset. Corsairs now have much higher base damage than Warriors, so even if the %s of the skills were to stay the same, Corsairs would have received a massive buff. In addition, magic attack is now almost as big as weapon attack in terms of increasing damage.

Weapon|Multiplier
Gun|1.60
Wand/Staff|0.88
2h Sword(/Axe/BW?)|1.28
1h Sword(/Axe/BW?)|1.20
Claw|2.00

Example:
Gun MAX damage = 1.6 * (4 DEX + STR) * (Weapon Attack / 100), rounded to nearest whole number
Gun MIN damage = (15% + mastery %) * MAX, rounded to the nearest whole number

JoeTang

2010-06-23, 09:04 PM

I've been trying to find the damage formulas for all the new weapons. They aren't likely to change again, and they are quite a bit different than the old formulas.

All of the new formulas seem to take the form multiplier x (4x primary stat + secondary stat) * ([magic/weapon] attack/100). Minimum damage is directly based on the rounded maximum damage, rather than it's own formula. Minimum damage is found with simple multiplier of the max damage. The base mastery depends on the weapon being used, with ranged weapons getting 15% mastery, melee getting 20%, and magic getting 25%. They also seem to use rounding (0.5+ = round up, else round down) instead of truncating.

The following isn't 100% accurate for sure, but they seem to work for every screenshot I can find. I'll assume they're the real formulas until someone can post a screenshot that proves otherwise. As you can see from just this data, the whole damage range hierarchy has been completely upset. Corsairs now have much higher base damage than Warriors, so even if the %s of the skills were to stay the same, Corsairs would have received a massive buff. In addition, magic attack is now almost as big as weapon attack in terms of increasing damage.

Weapon|Multiplier
Gun|1.60
Wand/Staff|0.88
2h Sword|1.28
1h Sword|1.20

Example:
Gun MAX damage = 1.6 * (4 DEX + STR) * (Weapon Attack / 100), rounded to nearest whole number
Gun MIN damage = (15% + mastery %) * MAX, rounded to the nearest whole number

Yeah, this looks like a rather good start, but we definitely need larger samples.

Stereo

2010-06-23, 09:42 PM

Mr. Shikage is very iffy on providing correct w.atk so I'm basing this on zero accurate screenshots, but I think Axe and BW have the same multipliers as swords (1.2 and 1.28).

Dusk

2010-06-23, 10:35 PM

Mr. Shikage is very iffy on providing correct w.atk so I'm basing this on zero accurate screenshots, but I think Axe and BW have the same multipliers as swords (1.2 and 1.28).

That would narrow the gap between the classes of weapons. I wonder if slash/stab still makes a difference on damage? A small slash bonus would make them equal.

Link

2010-06-23, 10:38 PM

Mr. Shikage is very iffy on providing correct w.atk so I'm basing this on zero accurate screenshots, but I think Axe and BW have the same multipliers as swords (1.2 and 1.28).

Iffy? What do you mean?

iAmFear

2010-06-23, 11:16 PM

Stereo

2010-06-23, 11:27 PM

0.87 staff, 0.88 wand? Strange.

@ ShiKage: just that you posted screenshots of a lot of weapons that don't say what your other atk is (I assumed it's 30 or 31).

Dusk

2010-06-24, 05:15 AM

Whoa, that's strange. Can we get some more staff screenshots?

50504724

2010-06-24, 10:27 AM

Bishop --- INT:1084 LUK:118 damage:5231~6975
find out the Matk=180, but I don't have it's gear screenshots.

Link

2010-06-24, 10:53 AM

0.87 staff, 0.88 wand? Strange.

@ ShiKage: just that you posted screenshots of a lot of weapons that don't say what your other atk is (I assumed it's 30 or 31).

I didn't post any weapons that weren't equipped. I don't see how that would affect the calculations. I gave you everything I had equipped.

iAmFear

2010-06-24, 06:11 PM

Some more staves:

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/192/staff10.jpg
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/5434/staff15.jpg
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1240/staff20.jpg

And here are some claws:

Total Atk = Claw Attack + 5atk Pet Equip + 15atk Subis + 4 atk Blessing
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/7727/claw10.jpg
x * (4*75+42) * 0.35 = 239
x = 1.997
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/8705/claw15gold.jpg
x * (4*77+42) * 0.35 = 245
x = 2
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/218/claw15silver.jpg
x * (4*76+42) * 0.36 = 249
x = 1.999

It looks like the claw multiplier is 2.

Hazzy

2010-06-24, 06:31 PM

On the topic of claws, can you confirm whether or not Lucky Seven is based directly off of your damage range, or the special formula it currently uses?

iAmFear

2010-06-24, 06:38 PM

On the topic of claws, can you confirm whether or not Lucky Seven is based directly off of your damage range, or the special formula it currently uses?

I'm working on a video for this, I actually made the character as a dit, so I'm resetting double stab into L7 as we speak.

Edit: So far, it doesn't look like L7 has it's own formula, the old one anyway.

Dusk

2010-06-24, 06:53 PM

Bishop --- INT:1084 LUK:118 damage:5231~6975
find out the Matk=180, but I don't have it's gear screenshots.

That matches the staff formula perfectly if all that information is right.

Claw formula also looks legit.

Edit: The staves in iAmFear's screenshots don't match the 0.87 multiplier; they match the 0.88 multiplier. Wonder what's going on. What class is that?

iAmFear

2010-06-24, 06:58 PM

That matches the staff formula perfectly if all that information is right.

Claw formula also looks legit.

Edit: The staves in iAmFear's screenshots don't match the 0.87 multiplier; they match the 0.88 multiplier. Wonder what's going on. What class is that?

It's a regular Adventurer Magician. I guess the other one was a fluke?

Dusk

2010-06-24, 07:00 PM

It's a regular Adventurer Magician. I guess the other one was a fluke?

Well, I can't think of anything that would cause the staff in the other screenshot to not match the formula. Either the formula's wrong, or there's another factor in play somewhere.

Edit: Below average weapon? o_o

Hazzy

2010-06-24, 07:02 PM

Is 0.01 not within the margin of error? 0.88 seems no different than 0.87 to me.

Dusk

2010-06-24, 07:04 PM

Is 0.01 not within the margin of error? 0.88 seems no different than 0.87 to me.

We'd prefer exact formulas if possible. 0.87 can actually make a difference of a couple dozen damage points in the range at higher levels.

iAmFear

2010-06-24, 07:06 PM

Well, I can't think of anything that would cause the staff in the other screenshot to not match the formula. Either the formula's wrong, or there's another factor in play somewhere.

Edit: Below average weapon? o_o

Yeah, both of my level 10 staves are below average, I don't think that would have an effect.

I'm not really familiar with Maple math, but I think I did this right.

Damage Range: 37~249, 76 LUK, 42 DEX, 36 ATT

Max (L7 Formula): [(5*76)/100] * 36 * 1.7 = 232.56 * .9 = 209.3
Min (L7 Formula): [(2.5*76)/100] * 36 * 1.7 = 116.28 * .9 = 104.7

Max: 249 * 1.7 = 423.3 * .9 = 380.97
Min: 37 * 1.7 = 62.9 * .9 = 56.6

1.7 for L7's 170%
* .9 for the 10% reduction from Snails?
Oh, and not sure how rounding works.

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/5723/maple0133.jpg

Hazzy

2010-06-24, 07:08 PM

SCUZE ME WHILE I CRY AT MY IDIOCY.

Finally Dex adds damage to Lucky Seven. Feels good man.

Fiel

2010-06-24, 07:12 PM

Congratulations. L7 no longer has its own formula. It works just like all other skills.

I'm loving how this is simplifying damage calculations a lot.

Dusk

2010-06-24, 07:15 PM

I think noticed a slight difference between my damage range with a staff and a wand with the same matk. I'm pretty sure it was the minimum damage though. Checking it out.

Edit: Maximum damage is differs by 2.
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/1230/maple0100j.jpg

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/8576/maple0101.jpg

This post is still a mindpineapple.

What causes the 0.87 multiplier to be used?

Or maybe the staff formula is entirely different. More screenshots with the 25 magic level 10 staff please?

Takebacker

2010-06-24, 07:22 PM

I'll contribute all my effort into providing ss's for brawlers, battle mages, and wild hunters when i get home. Does anyone have specific instructions so i know what to do beforehand?

Dusk

2010-06-24, 07:23 PM

I'll contribute all my effort into providing ss's for brawlers, battle mages, and wild hunters when i get home. Does anyone have specific instructions so i know what to do beforehand?

Take lots of screenshots with varying stats, provide accurate weapon/magic attack. Pretty simple.

Hazzy

2010-06-24, 07:24 PM

Document every bonus to magic/weapon attack.
Show clear screen of Stats and Range.
Repeat for a variety of weapon attacks and stats.
Post results

I think that's it.

iAmFear

2010-06-24, 07:26 PM

This post is still a mindpineapple.

What causes the 0.87 multiplier to be used?

Or maybe the staff formula is entirely different. More screenshots with the 25 magic level 10 staff please?

I think staff might have been changed between this and last patch. Damage ranges are the same now.

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/6618/maple0137.jpg

Dusk

2010-06-24, 07:27 PM

I think staff might have been changed between this and last patch. Damage ranges are the same now.

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/6618/maple0137.jpg

Yes. Awesome.

Probably a typo or something.

Cactuar

2010-06-24, 07:28 PM

Can you check out bandit ranges now Fear? The thief advance is fixed.

iAmFear

2010-06-24, 07:30 PM

Can you check out bandit ranges now Fear? The thief advance is fixed.

Will do, I should make two I guess, one normal and one str dit.

Edit: Server check.

Hazzy

2010-06-24, 07:36 PM

I think staff might have been changed between this and last patch. Damage ranges are the same now.

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/6618/maple0137.jpg

Where are you getting 20 magic attack from? 25 on the staff, but 55 total? I thought INT didn't affect Magic attack anymore.

Fiel

2010-06-24, 07:38 PM

iAmFear

2010-06-24, 07:39 PM

Where are you getting 20 magic attack from? 25 on the staff, but 55 total? I thought INT didn't affect Magic attack anymore.

I get 22 matk from my pet equips, and 8 from blessing.

Cyanne

2010-06-24, 07:45 PM

The two-handed axe constant seems to be 1.26 with the difference in slashes and stabs completely taken out.

The following range shows that the character's total attack is 122.
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5264/127741277001.jpg

With the axe, total attack is 123, but the damage range drops a little bit.
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/637/127741277002.jpg

Will do, I should make two I guess, one normal and one str dit.

Edit: Server check.

Try the str dagger with a warrior? o.o

Stereo

2010-06-24, 08:19 PM

I didn't post any weapons that weren't equipped. I don't see how that would affect the calculations. I gave you everything I had equipped.

http://i46.tinypic.com/24ebacg.jpg
Getting 1h axe from this, which doesn't list your other attack gear (or level of Rage - so I assumed 20 atk.) If I assume 141 total atk then it comes out to 2602 max with a 1.20 multiplier.

Kinda a side note, but...
Level 23 Magician
4 dex 101 int 26 luk
60 phys. avoid, 157 magic avoid

Level 67 Warrior
38 dex 6 int 14 luk
78 phys. avoid, 46 magic avoid

Level 80 Warrior
86 dex 9 int 7 luk
114 phys. avoid 35 magic avoid

I don't remember either class having an avoid-boosting skill, or really any equips adding avoid, but these don't seem to add up.

If we assume 1int=1magic avoid, 1luk=2magic avoid, you get
23 Magician 101+52 = 153 (4 more avoid missing)
67 Warrior 6+28 = 34 (12 more avoid missing)
80 Warrior 9+14 = 23 (12 more avoid missing)
Which is class consistent but where is it coming from.

WayOfTime

2010-06-24, 08:37 PM

I know it may seem weird, but what are their STR values?

iAmFear

2010-06-24, 08:39 PM

Dagger+5atk Pet Equip+4atk Blessing

LUK Dagger

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/7613/12dagger.jpg
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/4792/17dagger.jpg

Looks like 1.31, I think

STR Dagger

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/3513/strdagger.jpg
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/5725/strdagger1str.jpg
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/3149/strdagger2str.jpg

After further testing, it looks like all daggers are affected by STR.

Max range on the level 12 dagger increases by 1 when you add 2 STR, decreases by 1 when you take away 1 STR.
Max range on the level 17 dagger increases by 1 when you add 1 STR, no change at 2 STR.

If we assume 1int=1magic avoid, 1luk=2magic avoid, you get
23 Magician 101+52 = 153 (4 more avoid missing)
67 Warrior 6+28 = 34 (12 more avoid missing)
80 Warrior 9+14 = 23 (12 more avoid missing)
Which is class consistent but where is it coming from.

4 and 12 blessing?
Hmm, blessing only says it boosts avoid and accuracy, it doesn't distinguish between physical and magical.

Stereo

2010-06-24, 08:43 PM

1.30 works if you do 1.30*(4*luk+str+dex)

Thanks, forgot about Blessing.

iAmFear

2010-06-24, 08:47 PM

1.30 works if you do 1.30*(4*luk+str+dex)

Thanks, forgot about Blessing.

That makes sense, making a warrior now.

WayOfTime

2010-06-24, 08:51 PM

It looks like Physical avoidability is a lot like magic avoidability; LUK x2 + DEX +(extra avoid)

So...
26(LUK)x2 + 4(Dex) + 4(blessing)= 60 avoid
14(LUK)x2 + 38(DEX) + 12(blessing)=78 avoid

The last one doesnt add up. Is it possible you have 2 extra avoid somewhere?

Lyriall

2010-06-24, 08:53 PM

So they increased all the avoid values and made them whole number contributions? Interesting.

What about accuracy?

Cyanne

2010-06-24, 08:56 PM

WayOfTime

2010-06-24, 08:59 PM

To get accuracy, I need more input: especially with mastery levels and all skill accuracy modifiers. Do you happen to have some with your characters, Stereo?

Been toying with the accuracy formula for a while: it is not as cut-and-dry as I thought it would be!

Stereo

2010-06-24, 09:15 PM

The last one doesnt add up. Is it possible you have 2 extra avoid somewhere?

I'd think equip avoid would add to both phys. and magic avoid though, so that's odd.

Maybe there's a +% physical avoid on one of the blue equips? Just conjecture though.

And no I don't know accuracy values at all. :x

WayOfTime

2010-06-24, 09:22 PM

Well, I worked on the physical accuracy for a bit, and since I dont know entirely the equips, it is the best I can do. It worked on the level 21 rogue (assume 4 fairy, +9 acc nimble body, and +1 acc dana [used reverse engineering with avoid formula]) and the level 23 mage (same reverse engineering). It would also work with your level 80 warrior, Stereo, if it has an extra 5 acc somewhere.

(1/0.84)*DEX+LUK (Rounddown).

Edit: I think I found the mage accuracy formula: it is a real let down compared to the others, but it seems to work.

Luk + Int + other accuracies

This works for Stereo's warrior (same 5 accuracy occurance) and the thief, but seems to stray on the mage, where it happens to matter the most.

iAmFear

2010-06-24, 09:40 PM

And here are the remaining warrior equips:
58 STR, 30 DEX
Total Att = Weapon Att + 4 atk from Blessing

1H Axe
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/7103/001haxe.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/1013/151haxe.jpg

1H BW
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/8054/001hbw.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/868/151hbw.jpg

2H BW
http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/6198/102hbw.jpg
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/2209/152hbw.jpg

Spear
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/7760/10spear.jpg
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/1193/15spear.jpg

Pole Arm
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/1232/10pa.jpg
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/6838/15paj.jpg

1H Axe and BW seem to be around 1.1, need more 2H BW, Spear and PA are around 1.5

Gonna level to 20 and check those out.

Stereo

2010-06-24, 09:45 PM

WayOfTime

2010-06-24, 09:48 PM

iAmFear

2010-06-24, 09:50 PM

Dusk

2010-06-24, 09:55 PM

:(

I thought the formulas would be one thing they wouldn't keep changing, so they'd be a good place to start. This is going to be annoying.

Stereo

2010-06-24, 09:56 PM

The accuracy formulae seem to be accurate (except for that 1/0.84; that needs work). And the modifiers for the spear and polearm seem to be the same; estimated at ~1.53 (1.526718 more specific, but isn't round enough, and is only looking at the 41 atk value. Probably would be best to get it to a higher level). Other modifiers seem accurate.

Putting +- limits on the numbers I got (assuming they only round 159.5 ~ 160.5 to 160):
1.4848 ~ 1.4941 - Spear/Polearm
1.2614 ~ 1.2707 - 2h BW
1.0998 ~ 1.10793 - 1h axe/bw

If we do assume they're 2 decimal places, the only possible values are 1.49, 1.27, 1.10 - not sure where 1.53 came from.

50504724

2010-06-24, 10:27 PM

Get 2 more screenshot..
Really strange.

Str:336 Dex:38 Weapon:2H Axe
Weapon ATK=82 total Atk=?
Damage: 1499~2141

Str:336 Dex:38 Weapon:2H Sword
Weapon ATK=81 total Atk=?
Damage: 1510~2157

then I find the ATK from other gears by change the multiplier
The result is：
other ATK：40
2H Axe：multiplier=1.27 totalATT=122 baseDamage：1498.89~2141.27 round: 1499~2141
2H Sword：multiplier=1.29 totalATT=121 baseDamage：1510.01~2157.164 round: 1510~2157

if the multiplier is 1.28 or 1.26 or others, I can't find a suitable integer as totalATT..

round or floor...

iAmFear

2010-06-24, 11:00 PM

Level 20:

73 STR, 40 DEX

http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/9070/onehsword.jpg
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/6041/onehbw.jpg
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7381/twohsword.jpg
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/7240/twohaxe.jpg
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/2109/twohbw.jpg
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/9683/polearm.jpg

2H Axe and 2H BW at 20 have the same attack and result in the same attack range.
I'm gonna try to 100% the 2H sword twice and see what happens.

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/1610/maple0168.jpg

Oh and something else of note:
This is on my warrior.

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1396/maple0164.jpg
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9637/maple0165.jpg

But after dying in Orbis:
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5488/maple0172.jpg

Hazzy

2010-06-24, 11:07 PM

50504724

2010-06-25, 12:03 AM

I made up a sheet to validate all of your data~~~
I can't see the images from imageshack.us=.= sry...

1h Sword 1.1
1h Blunt 1.1
2h Sword 1.29
2h Axe 1.27
2h Blunt 1.27
Polearm 1.49

None-error

wand/staff really need more screenshot .
while the image which I got from 1.2.318 shows that one of them have the Multiplier of 0.87
and then 1.2.321 formula changes?

FrozNlite

2010-06-25, 01:33 AM

Paul just told me about the multipliers. Can I get an :f5: for detrimental Magician multipliers? At least we can scroll our earrings for Wep ATT, I suppose ;)

Hazzy

2010-06-25, 01:37 AM

I can't see the images from imageshack.us=.= sry...

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5506330/images/multipliers.png
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5506330/images/multipliers.png)
???

50504724

2010-06-25, 03:58 AM

My friend take lots of data from KMST

lucky~~~

teach me how to insert a table T.T
yeah~I get it.
Weapon | P-stat | S-stat | W.att/M.atk | Mastery | Base Damage | Multiplier | Calculated Damage
Bow | 414 | 70 | 57 | 15% | 170~1131 | 1.15 | 169.709~1131.393
Bow | 412 | 70 | 62 | 15% | 184~1225 | 1.15 | 183.740~1224.934
Bow | 412 | 70 | 67 | 15% | 199~1324 | 1.15 | 198.5579~1323.719
CrossBow | 412 | 70 | 56 | 65% | 844~1299 | 1.35 | 844.2252~1298.808
CrossBow | 412 | 70 | 61 | 65% | 920~1415 | 1.35 | 919.6025~1414.773
CrossBow | 412 | 70 | 66 | 65% | 995~1531 | 1.35 | 994.9797~1530.738
Wand | 572 | 80 | 81 | 78% | 1317~1688 | 0.88 | 1316.57~1687.91
Wand | 572 | 80 | 86 | 78% | 1398~1792 | 0.88 | 1397.84~1792.102
Wand | 572 | 80 | 91 | 78% | 1479~1896 | 0.88 | 1479.078~1729.587
Staff | 572 | 80 | 78 | 78% | 1268~1625 | 0.88 | 1267.808~1625.395
Staff | 572 | 80 | 83 | 78% | 1349~1730 | 0.88 | 1349.078~1729.587
Staff | 572 | 80 | 88 | 78% | 1431~1834 | 0.88 | 1430.348~1833.779
Claw | 359 | 128(only dex) | 24 | 15% | 113~751 | 2.00 | 112.608~750.72
Claw | 359 | 128 | 26 | 15% | 122~813 | 2.00 | 121.992~813.28
Claw | 359 | 128 | 28 | 15% | 131~876 | 2.00 | 131.376~875.84
Dagger | 359 | 132(dex+str) | 57 | 20% | 232~1162 | 1.30 | 232.3776~1161.888
Dagger | 359 | 132 | 59 | 20% | 241~1203 | 1.30 | 240.5312~1202.656
Dagger | 359 | 132 | 62 | 20% | 253~1264 | 1.30 | 252.7616~1263.808
DualBlade | 359 | 132 | 102 | 20% | 416~2079 | 1.30 | 415.8336~2079.168
DualBlade | 359 | 132 | 122 | 70% | 1741~2087 | 1.30 | 1740.794~2486.848
DualBlade | 359 | 132 | 127 | 70% | 1812~2589 | 1.30 | 1812.138~2588.768
DualBlade | 359 | 132 | 155 | 70% | 2212~3160 | 1.30 | 2211.664~3159.52

only the red part have something error.
I assumed that it may have a special calculate order:
1) calculate the max Damage ,with the stat and weapon Multiplier.
2) round it.
3) multiply rounded Max Damage by mastery, and round it. That is Min Damage.

So 1430.348~1833.779 --> ? ~1834 --> 1834*0.78 ~ 1834 --> 1430.52 ~ 1834 --> 1431 ~ 1834

staff=0.87 seems a bug. It has already repaired.

JoeTang

2010-06-25, 05:20 AM

Since the new critical skill mechanics have it add to the minimum critical damage, that implies that the maximum stays at +50%? What happens when you factor in SE then, which adds +30% critical minimum? Would it cap at +50% critical damage all the time, or would the cap be raised? Or does +x% critical minimum in fact raise your maximum as well?

Also, with the assumption that these skills only raise the minimum and 50% is the cap:
Night Lords: 1974%/s
With SE: 2065%/s
Bow Masters: 1916.7%/s
Corsairs: 2773.8%/s
With SE: 2857.1%/s
lolMarksmen: 1000%/s + 100k/s

Rather steep differences.

WayOfTime

2010-06-25, 05:39 AM

Poor Marksmen in this update; unless Bowmen and Crossbowmen get a good multiplier like the other ranged classes.

Dusk

2010-06-25, 05:41 AM

Paul just told me about the multipliers. Can I get an :f5: for detrimental Magician multipliers? At least we can scroll our earrings for Wep ATT, I suppose ;)

You get a lot more Magic Attack from your equips than other classes get Weapon Attack. Your weapons add more and you can get Magic Attack from a lot of sources that Weapon Attack isn't available from, and Blessing adds twice as much Magic Attack. Hell, My 4th job DPS spreadsheet uses Magic Attack values of well over 300 for Mages, and that's under the current system where you're mostly scrolling for INT.

@50504724: Minimum damage is calculated based on the max damage, so that number works. Since when do Magicians have 78% mastery, though? I thought the base was 25%, not 28%. Or is there a 3% coming from something else?

JoeTang

2010-06-25, 05:45 AM

Poor Marksmen in this update; unless Bowmen and Crossbowmen get a good multiplier like the other ranged classes.

Looking at 50504724's results, not really. It does make logical sense that they're lower than Gun and Claw because those two have relatively lower total weapon attack most of the time. The effect of Expert helps this, but in the end it's only what, 10 weapon attack difference since Corsairs have some buff that adds 20 that activates on attack? I've often seen that Corsairs have higher ranges than Bow Masters, and matching ranges with Marksmen, but maybe the funding is just way too different. The high base attack on the Bow/Crossbow is matched by the Gun plus Bullets more often than not. I mean, when we compare the Timeless Bow and Gun, the difference is 23 attack. Eternal Bullets are 20 attack, so in the end, the difference is 3.

Fiel

2010-06-25, 05:47 AM

only the red part have something error.
I assumed that it may have a special calculate order:
1) calculate the max Damage ,with the stat and weapon Multiplier.
2) round it.
3) multiply rounded Max Damage by mastery, and round it. That is Min Damage.

So 1430.348~1833.779 --> ? ~1834 --> 1834*0.78 ~ 1834 --> 1430.52 ~ 1834 --> 1431 ~ 1834

Makes sense to me:

int* CalculateDamage(int weaponType, int primaryStat, int secondaryStat)
{
int maxDamage;
int minDamage;

maxDamage = (int) CalculateMaxDamage(weaponType, primaryStat, secondaryStat);
minDamage = CalculateMinDamage(maxDamage);
}

The max damage gets converted to an integer when returned from CalculateMaxDamage.

Weapon Type|Multiplier
1H Sword|1.10
1H Axe|1.10
1H BW|1.10
Dagger|1.30 (str + dex)
Wand|0.88
Staff|0.88
2H Sword|1.28
2H Axe|1.26
2H BW|1.27
Spear|1.49
Polearm|1.49
Bow|1.15
Crossbow|1.35
Claw|2.00
Knuckler|???
Gun|1.60

Only Knucklers left!

Dusk

2010-06-25, 05:56 AM

WayOfTime

2010-06-25, 05:58 AM

This is a real damage boost to a lot of the classes, formulae alone; at level 124 (MM), my max damage is around ~3000 right now, with a total of 116 STR, 614 DEX, and 138 ATK. With these new updates, my new damage (Assuming the same stats) will be 3211~4792. This is quite a change.

50504724

2010-06-25, 06:11 AM

@50504724: Minimum damage is calculated based on the max damage, so that number works. Since when do Magicians have 78% mastery, though? I thought the base was 25%, not 28%. Or is there a 3% coming from something else?

Evan's passive skill? I've no idea.

This is a real damage boost to a lot of the classes, formulae alone; at level 124 (MM), my max damage is around ~3000 right now, with a total of 116 STR, 614 DEX, and 138 ATK. With these new updates, my new damage (Assuming the same stats) will be 3211~4792. This is quite a change.

Mobs' def is also changed and some of them have a new property “PddRate”。。

Lyriall

2010-06-25, 08:14 AM

Is it possible that spears and polearms are 1.35*1.1 (1.485), and 2h weapons are 1.15*1.1 (1.265)? Just because 1h weapons and wand/staff are clearly multiples of 1.1.

Hazzy

2010-06-25, 10:36 AM

That certainly explains the weird numbers.
So could you instead rewrite each formula as n*1.1*(4*primary+secondary)*atk/100 ?

50504724

2010-06-25, 10:59 AM

Is it possible that spears and polearms are 1.35*1.1 (1.485), and 2h weapons are 1.15*1.1 (1.265)? Just because 1h weapons and wand/staff are clearly multiples of 1.1.

neally close but not exact...

Takebacker

2010-06-25, 11:23 AM

http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/364/39215929.png

Cyanne

2010-06-25, 11:31 AM

Hanabira.Kage

2010-06-25, 11:41 PM

http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/364/39215929.png

Off-topic: Eww. They made the inventory and equipment windows so awesome...but didn't do the same for the ability and skill windows. What the pomegranate is this? :(

Fiel

2010-06-25, 11:49 PM

the images for the fixed ability and skill windows are in the data, just not implemented.

cleric1213

2010-06-25, 11:55 PM

So is there a point in going str bandit now?

Hazzy

2010-06-26, 12:16 AM

the images for the fixed ability and skill windows are in the data, just not implemented.

Did they slip into an extraction unnoticed somewhere? If not, can you post them?

Fiel

2010-06-26, 12:31 AM

So is there a point in going str bandit now?

Yes. Each point in STR is every bit as good as a point in DEX.

Cactuar

2010-06-26, 12:54 AM

So is there a point in going str bandit now?

The real question is "So is there any point in going Luk bandit now?" due to the potential system + availability of shields in GMS.

Anyway, so now should we start work on figuring out criticals? I have no idea where to start.

Hanabira.Kage

2010-06-26, 01:00 AM

Yes. Each point in STR is every bit as good as a point in DEX.

STR has always added as much damage as DEX for bandits. The only edge DEX had over STR was that it also added Accuracy and a little Avoidability (if I'm not mistaken) and all Thief Armour required DEX and not STR. So does STR do anything other than increase damage now?

twy123

2010-06-26, 01:05 AM

Off-topic: Eww. They made the inventory and equipment windows so awesome...but didn't do the same for the ability and skill windows. What the pomegranate is this? :(

Haven't got around to redesigning them ( Although I don't know why, seeing as nothing major was changed), or keeping them for nostalgia's sake OR to make their sleeker designs look good.

Dusk

2010-06-26, 05:46 AM

STR has always added as much damage as DEX for bandits. The only edge DEX had over STR was that it also added Accuracy and a little Avoidability (if I'm not mistaken) and all Thief Armour required DEX and not STR. So does STR do anything other than increase damage now?

You need STR to equip daggers and Khanjars. But no, I'm not aware that it does anything to your avoid/accuracy/etc.

For testing critical damage, it'd probably be helpful if we could get a MM with max SE (and whatever else you can get that increases crit. min) to fire at Snails for a few minutes and make a vid.

Fiel

2010-06-26, 06:23 AM

-- removed --

Dusk

2010-06-26, 06:27 AM

In that case, we need a Gunslinger to get buffed with max SE and make a ~5 min video at Snails.

JoeTang

2010-06-26, 03:43 PM

SKILLS WHICH INCREASE CRITICAL MINIMUM DAMAGE:
- Sharp Eyes
- Assassin Crit
- Critical Punch (Brawler)
- Critical Shot (Gunslinger)
- Thorns

SKILLS WHICH INCREASE THE CRITICAL CHANCE:
- Sharp Eyes
- Holy Focus (Priest passive skill)
- Bowman Crit
- Assassin Crit
- Critical Punch (Brawler)
- Stun Mastery (Brawler)
- Dice Roll (Brawler, Gunslinger)
- Critical Shot (Gunslinger)
- Thorns

Where does Judgement Dragon (Dragon Knight passive skill) stand in all this?

Bribery

2010-06-26, 03:46 PM

Where does Evan's Critical Magic fit?

Phoenix

2010-06-26, 03:52 PM

You need STR to equip daggers and Khanjars. But no, I'm not aware that it does anything to your avoid/accuracy/etc.

For testing critical damage, it'd probably be helpful if we could get a MM with max SE (and whatever else you can get that increases crit. min) to fire at Snails for a few minutes and make a vid.

Wait so did you find an answer for whether Crit damage increases both max and min, or min solely, or is this the attempt to figure that out?

Fiel

2010-06-26, 04:00 PM

Not sure on judgement dragon. It increases "cr", "prop", and "x". The skill string looks like this:

드래곤 스킬 사용 시 크리티컬 확률 #cr% 증가, #prop% 확률로 데미지의 #x%를 체력으로 전환

SKILLS WHICH INCREASE CRITICAL MINIMUM DAMAGE:
- Sharp Eyes
- Assassin Crit
- Critical Punch (Brawler)
- Critical Shot (Gunslinger)
- Thorns

SKILLS WHICH INCREASE THE CRITICAL CHANCE:
- Sharp Eyes
- Holy Focus (Priest passive skill)
- Bowman Crit
- Assassin Crit
- Critical Punch (Brawler)
- Stun Mastery (Brawler)
- Dice Roll (Brawler, Gunslinger)
- Critical Shot (Gunslinger)
- Thorns
- Critical Magic (Evan)

Cancambo

2010-06-26, 04:20 PM

Kalovale

2010-06-27, 07:19 AM

Not sure on judgement dragon. It increases "cr", "prop", and "x". The skill string looks like this:

드래곤 스킬 사용 시 크리티컬 확률 #cr% 증가, #prop% 확률로 데미지의 #x%를 체력으로 전환

I was afraid of this. -.-
B > kMTS account, I play from midnight till dawn American time.

hadriel

2010-06-28, 10:30 AM

I just did some quick calculations... and... gods... the revamp makes me want to play again... (I retired... going Cambridge soon)

These are the stats of my now-retired level 130 Normal I/L Archmage.

INT: 583 + 105 = 688
LUK: 89 + 51 = 140
MA: 145 (TSW, clean) + 1 (Black Neli) + 3 (Lirin's) + 12 (Maple Earring) + 20 (Med) + 20 (BoF) + 10 (Mastery)
TMA = 211

New Damage Range (using the new damage formula): 4027 ~ 5370

Damage before defense reductions using some of the skills I have. Assume I'm using the respective element's elemental weapon i.e. imagine I swap with an identical-stats Iceberg for Ice skills. Also, assume that for 1st to 3rd jobs I put in the SPs to fit the skill's mastery level. Some skills are left at that level intentionally.

CL19 (pre-adventurer's patch): 11,516 ~ 16,312
CL19 (post-adventurer's patch): 13,832 ~ 19,592
CL19 [KMST 1.2.321]: 645% = 42,212 ~ 56,283
*Note CL19 is the last skill level before diminishing returns set in*

Bliz1 (pre-adventurer's patch): 26,493 ~ 34,286
Bliz1 (post-adventurer's patch): 28,385 ~ 36,735
Bliz1 [KMST 1.2.321]: 820% = 53,665 ~ 71,553

BB1 (pre-adventurer's patch): 8,797 ~ 13,299
BB30 (pre-adventurer's patch): 32,228 ~ 37,403
BB1 (post-adventurer's patch): 9,102 ~ 13,979
BB30 (post-adventurer's patch) : 34,530 ~ 40,075
BB1 [KMST 1.2.321]: 232% * 5 = 12,147 ~ 16196 * 5 == 60,733 ~ 80,978
BB30 [KMST 1.2.321]: 290% * 5 = 15183 ~ 20,244 * 5 == 75,916 ~ 101,222
*Since this is the most anticipated skill I put both min and max levels for comparision... I'd leave it at BB1 for now, thankfully.*

IS30 (pre-adventurer's patch): 7,225 ~ 9,350
IS30 (post-adventurer's patch): 7,741 ~ 10,018
IS20 [KMST 1.2.321]: 390% = 25,524 ~ 34,032

CB30 (pre-adventurer's patch): 8,028 ~ 10,389
CB30 (post-adventurer's patch): 8,601 ~ 11,132
CB20 [KMST 1.2.321]: 360% = 23,560 ~ 31,414

TB30 (pre-adventurer's patch): 4,817 ~ 6,233
TB30 (post-adventurer's patch): 5,161 ~ 6,679
TB20 [KMST 1.2.321]: 90% * 3 = 5,890 ~ 7,853 * 3 == 17,670 ~ 23,560

TS1 (pre-adventurer's patch): 4,759 ~ 8,311
TS1 (post-adventurer's patch): 5,099 ~ 8,905
TS1 [KMST 1.2.321]: 83% * 5 = 5,432 ~ 7,243 * 5 == 27,160 ~ 36,213

And... our first job skills:

EB1 (pre-adventurer's patch): 951 ~ 1,662
EB1 (post-adventurer's patch): 1,019 ~ 1,781
EB1 [KMST 1.2.321]: 166% = 8,691 ~ 11,588

MC20 (pre-adventurer's patch): 2,569 ~ 3,324 * 2 == 5,138 ~ 6,648
MC20 (post-adventurer's patch): 2,752 ~ 3,562 * 2 == 5,504 ~ 7,124
MC20 [KMST 1.2.321]: 120% * 2 * 2 mobs = 6,283 ~ 8,377 * 2 * 2 mobs == 12,565 ~ 16.754 * 2 mobs === 25,131 ~ 33,508
*I'd leave this as low as possible actually... I favour defence over offence, despite the cliche...*

Now I'd say that the HP increase for mobs are quite justified...

Hadriel

Fiel

2010-06-29, 09:12 AM

Hazzy

2010-06-29, 10:02 AM

There's a range of 10%; Maybe that's related to criticaldamageMin? It wouldn't be the first time Nexon mislabeled something.

Alloy

2010-06-29, 10:21 AM

I'd like to see a video with maxed triple throw and avenger.

Cyanne

2010-06-29, 11:45 AM

Here's some stuff for crits I did if any of you guys want to look:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYS7pqffu3o

STATS:
1849 ~ 2844 damage range
396 LUK
89 DEX
85 WATK

CRITICALS:
max assassin crit
55% Crit Rate
criticaldamageMin = +10%

SKILLS:
level 15 avenger - 505% damage
Max lucky 7 - 170% damage

MOB:
All have PDRate = 10
PDDamage is 35 - 40 (negligible impact)

AVENGER CRITICALS:
10150
11048
9715
12922
9940
11285
9039
12889
9909
13238
12425
12059
12863
9556
12048
11603
9509
11499
9979
12903
12257
10427
8916 (0:57)
13789 (0:58)
13146
9396
12008

LUCKY 7 CRITICALS:
4539
3642
5021
3492
4198
4113

I'm calculating that crits are additive here. But what's also weird is that minimum critical damage seems to be 30% and maximum seems to be 40%. Well... isn't that odd?

Assuming the defense formula wasn't changed, the damage range would come out to 1642.5 - 2543.85 after defense.

Minimum damage range: 1642.5
Q1: 1867.8375
Median/average: 2093.175
Q3: 2318.5125
Max: 2543.85

Minimum observed avenger critical damage: 8916
Q1: 9909
Med: 11499
Average: 11278.4444
Q3: 12863
Max: 13789

Min critical modifier: (8916 - 5.05*1642.5)/1642.5 = 0.3783
Q1: 0.2551
Med: 0.4436
Average: 0.3382
Q3: 0.4980
Max: 0.3705

Yeah, need more tests =/

Found more exp to next level data:

1레벨 : 15
2레벨 : 34
3레벨 : 57
4레벨 : 92
5레벨 : 135
6레벨 : 372
7레벨 : 560
8레벨 : 840
9레벨 : 1242
10레벨 : 1242
11레벨 : 1242
12레벨 : 1242
13레벨 : 1242
14레벨 : 1242
15레벨 : 1490
16레벨 : 1788
17레벨 : 2146
18레벨 : 2575
19레벨 : 3090
20레벨 : 3708
21레벨 : 4450
22레벨 : 5340
23레벨 : 6408
24레벨 : 7690
25레벨 : 9228
26레벨 : 11074
27레벨 : 13289
28레벨 : 15947
29레벨 : 19136
30레벨 : 19136
31레벨 : 19136
32레벨 : 19136
33레벨 : 19136
34레벨 : 19136
35레벨 : 22963
36레벨 : 27556
37레벨 : 33067
38레벨 : 39680
39레벨 : 47616
40레벨 : 51425
41레벨 : 55539
42레벨 : 59982

43레벨 : 64781

44레벨 : 69963

45레벨 : 75560

46레벨 : 81605

47레벨 : 88133

48레벨 : 95184

49레벨 : 102799

50레벨 : 111023

51레벨 : 119905

52레벨 : 129497

53레벨 : 139857

54레벨 : 151046

55레벨 : 163130

56레벨 : 176180

57레벨 : 190274

58레벨 : 205496

59레벨 : 221936

60레벨 : 239691

61레벨 : 258866

62레벨 : 279575

63레벨 : 301941

64레벨 : 326096

65레벨 : 352184

66레벨 : 380359

67레벨 : 410788

68레벨 : 443651

69레벨 : 479143

70레벨 : 479143

71레벨 : 479143

72레벨 : 479143

73레벨 : 479143