[Post-Revamp] What would you do for a Bandit build?

[Hanabira.Kage]

Now that the whole revamp thing is happening in KMST, how would you build your Bandit? It's fine if you don't post beyond 2nd job if you can't think of any for 3rd/4th. Use the current skill tables (KMST 1.2.321) for this.

I would do:

Bandit

Dagger Mastery (20)
Dagger Booster (6)
Savage Blow (1)
Haste (5)
Steal (11)
Savage Blow (30)
Haste (20)
Shadow Resistance (20)
Dagger Booster (20)

-> Everything's maxed except for Steal. Steal won't have much utility after getting BoT...and I prefer maxed Booster better. :x

Chief Bandit (Edited)

Assaulter (1)
Meso Explosion (1)
Chakra (3)
Meso Guard (1)
Flash Jump (1)
Band of Thieves (20)
Shadow Partner (20)
Assaulter (20)
Meso Explosion (3)
Pickpocket (10)
Meso Explosion (20)
Shadow Mirror (20)
Meso Guard (10)
Chakra (10)
Shield Mastery (1)

-> Cool Assaulter is cool Assaulter. 'nuff said. :wink: Although Shield Mastery does seem a lot better now, I wouldn't sacrifice anything else for it. Lv1 Flash Jump is added early on for mobility. Shadow Partner is maxed right after BoT to maximise damage output, followed by Assaulter for better 1v1 damage. The ME + PP combo seems to be a whole lot more useful now after viewing the new KMST 1.2.321 Shad video, so I'll max it them after Assaulter. Lv1 Meso Guard also lasts long enough to be useful, so Shadow Mirror is maxed out before it since I will be bumping into monsters a whole lot...thus making Shadow Mirror activate more often. I don't really get how Chakra works, but I don't like stopping every now and then to cast it. Besides, the MP cost is ridiculous.

What's your proposed build? :f2:

p.s. omg wall of text!

[cleric1213]

1 Mastery -> 5 Haste -> 14 Steal(hits 4 enemies)(1 Savage Blow Somewhere) -> Max Mastery -> Max Steal -> 5 Booster -> Max Savage Blow/Haste(IDK which one to max first) -> Max Shadow Resistance -> 11 booster


3rd job - i'll have to look at how the skills work now

[Pride]

You will train with Double stab until 4x ?

[cleric1213]

You will train with Double stab until 4x ?

um...steal?

I should start spamming steal on mobs at around 37-39

that 1 savage blow should help...alot

[Pride]

um...steal?

I should start spamming steal on mobs at around 37-39

that 1 savage blow should help...alot

I was referring to the TS. 1 SB is A LOT better than Double stab now that it hits 6 times at level 1 (56%)
I'd put my first point at level 30 in Savage blow.

[Hanabira.Kage]

I was referring to the TS. 1 SB is A LOT better than Double stab now that it hits 6 times at level 1 (56%)
I'd put my first point at level 30 in Savage blow.


Oops. I forgot to state that I'll add one point into Savage Blow before Steal...I had it in mind but forgot to type it in...

[Neothisis]

1 Point before Steal still means you'll be about 41 before you get Savage Blow.
And with the somewhat nerfed Meso Explosion, there's really no point getting it that early on.

[Hanabira.Kage]

1 Point before Steal still means you'll be about 41 before you get Savage Blow.
And with the somewhat nerfed Meso Explosion, there's really no point getting it that early on.


The reason why I chose to get Meso Explosion anyway was because:

1. Lv1 Meso Guard is enough to last. I should add SP to other skills instead.

2. I don't know how useful Chakra is...but I don't think I'll be using it much while training so I'm leaving it out.

3. ME is there to complement training, coupled with Pickpocket.

Shadow Mirror...could be useful...I guess. Maybe I'll consider adding points to it before ME.

[Neothisis]

The reason why I chose to get Meso Explosion anyway was because:

1. Lv1 Meso Guard is enough to last. I should add SP to other skills instead.

2. I don't know how useful Chakra is...but I don't think I'll be using it much while training so I'm leaving it out.

3. ME is there to complement training, coupled with Pickpocket.

Shadow Mirror...could be useful...I guess. Maybe I'll consider adding points to it before ME.

1. Yes, it will be.
2. It's life threatening at times right now, so unless they changed the animation time or something about it to make it faster, you won't be using it that often unless you're prepared to die.
3. Looking at your Build, you're not getting any points in Pickpocket until level 90, and the new ME won't be useful unless you DO have a lot of coins around to bomb if it's 180% per coin/bag.
Indeed, Shadow Mirror seems like it would be useful at a place like Typhons or Himes where you lure and then kill in one area. But once you get Shifter and higher Avoid further into 4th, I can see it start to become more and more obsolete.

[Hanabira.Kage]

1. Yes, it will be.
2. It's life threatening at times right now, so unless they changed the animation time or something about it to make it faster, you won't be using it that often unless you're prepared to die.
3. Looking at your Build, you're not getting any points in Pickpocket until level 90, and the new ME won't be useful unless you DO have a lot of coins around to bomb if it's 180% per coin/bag.
Indeed, Shadow Mirror seems like it would be useful at a place like Typhons or Himes where you lure and then kill in one area. But once you get Shifter and higher Avoid further into 4th, I can see it start to become more and more obsolete.


So you're saying I should try getting Shadow Mirror ASAP, right after Assaulter? Since it will be obsolete in 4th Job.

[cleric1213]

I dont even think we should plan for 3rd job builds before we get to see them in action

[Neothisis]

So you're saying I should try getting Shadow Mirror ASAP, right after Assaulter? Since it will be obsolete in 4th Job.

Well, it depends on where you plan to train of course, but it definitely seems more useful than a single point in ME without Pickpocket at 7x.
Also, you still need to do something about not getting a better skill to use than Double Stab until 41. It's going to be hellish lol.

[Hanabira.Kage]

Well, it depends on where you plan to train of course, but it definitely seems more useful than a single point in ME without Pickpocket at 7x.
Also, you still need to do something about not getting a better skill to use than Double Stab until 41. It's going to be hellish lol.


I already put in the 1 Savage Blow before Max Steal. o.O

[Kabanaw]

I already put in the 1 Savage Blow before Max Steal. o.O

20 dagger mastery + 6 booster + 5 haste = 31 SP. That's level 30-40. Your first SP for SB is level 41.

[Hanabira.Kage]

20 dagger mastery + 6 booster + 5 haste = 31 SP. That's level 30-40. Your first SP for SB is level 41.


Oh crap. I forgot to put it before Haste. =.=

I'll change it. Again.

[Neothisis]

Still a problem. Booster doesn't affect Double Stab, it automatically attacks at max speed.
Also, 5 Haste isn't going to help you any.
EDIT:Lemme elaborate on this:

I was referring to the TS. 1 SB is A LOT better than Double stab now that it hits 6 times at level 1 (56%)
I'd put my first point at level 30 in Savage blow.
Level 20 Double Stab max damage:100% * 1.3 * 2=260%
Level 20 Double Stab min damage:100% * 0.2 * 1.3 * 2=52%
Level 20 Double Stab average damage:(260+52)/2=156%

Level 1 Savage Blow max damage:100% * 0.56 * 6=336%
Level 1 Savage Blow min damage:100% * 0.2 * 0.56 * 6=67.2%
Level 1 Savage Blow average damage:(336+67.2)/2=201.6%

So, as you can see here (unless I did the calculations wrong), level 1 Savage Blow is better than max Double stab in pretty much every way.
Now let's take a look at whether 20 Mastery with Double Stab or 20 Savage Blow would be better.

Level 20 Double Stab with level 20 Mastery max damage:100% * 1.3 * 2=260%
Level 20 Double Stab with level 20 Mastery min damage:100% * 0.7 * 1.3 * 2=182%
Level 20 Double Stab with level 20 Mastery average damage:(260+182)/2=221%

Min and average are definitely better than level 1 Savage, but what if you spent those 20 points from Mastery in Savage Blow instead?

Level 20 Savage Blow max damage:100% * 0.75 * 6=450%
Level 20 Savage Blow min damage:100% * 0.2 * 0.75 * 6=90%
Level 20 Savage Blow average damage:(450+90)/2=270%

While the min of level 20 Savage Blow is definitely a lot lower than Double Stab with max Mastery, the max is considerably higher and the average also wins out. In the end, it's obviously your choice, but there's just something to think about.

[Hanabira.Kage]

Still a problem. Booster doesn't affect Double Stab, it automatically attacks at max speed.
Also, 5 Haste isn't going to help you any.
EDIT:Lemme elaborate on this:


Lv5 Haste is for Steal. ._.

Why else would I add 5 SP to Haste when anything less than Lv10 Haste is absolutely useless?

[Kabanaw]

So the base mastery for melee classes is 20% right? I want to figure out if it's better to get 1 SB or 1 mastery at level 30, since mastery is +12%.

130%*2=260%
130%*2*.32=83.2%
(260%+83.2%)/2=171.6%

56%*6=336%
56%*6*.2=107.52%
(336%+107.52%)/2=221.76%

So SB is better to get at level 30, then mastery, instead of 1 mastery, then 1 sb at level 31.

[Peyhwa]

i dunno abt u guys, but the current charka is rather actively used by me.
no doubt the danger involved but it does help on pot cost.

but i cant say so for the new charka since the mp cost increased alot.

[Tay]

EDIT; Durp on me

[Forte]

It upsets me that I can't max all my skills. :[

[shagreen heart]

do my skill build, the true bandit build: just put zero points in PP/ME. no shad trains with them in 4th job. i have zero points in PP/ME, and i have all my 2nd job skills maxed, max: chakra, shield mastery, nimble body, assaulter, BoT, MG.

i want to post my revamp build but i'll hold my tongue until after everything is official. i will keep PP/ME at 0 though, and you can bet steal, shield mastery, shadow resistance, shadow partner, and the dark mirror skill will be maxed. i don't have much use for flash jump, but i'll probably get it since don't need pp/me.

also everyone needs to write nexon and remind them to release the reverse shields, please. i really wanted my REVERSE List to be the first reverse equip i would forge, but they aren't even in GMS. none of the reverse shields are.

[Rayquaza2233]

i dunno abt u guys, but the current charka is rather actively used by me.
no doubt the danger involved but it does help on pot cost.

but i cant say so for the new charka since the mp cost increased alot.

It saves about 1500 mesos in exchange for possible death and a decrease in leveling speed. I'll take my lumps without Chakra.

@ shagreen : Chakra and Shield Mastery aren't really that awesome.

[Kabanaw]

It saves about 1500 mesos in exchange for possible death and a decrease in leveling speed. I'll take my lumps without Chakra.

@ shagreen : Chakra and Shield Mastery aren't really that awesome.

Chakra is really good for the dojo, but that's it. shield mastery is lame.

[shagreen heart]

i'd like to kindly disagree, rayquauza.

first let's talk about chakra. chakra in 3rd job, no, only useful really in the dojo. it's actually extremely useful in the dojo, i should say. but anyway, once you get shifter, then you will realize how important and amazing have max chakra really is. just think about it. if it doesn't click or make sense to you, i'm sorry for your loss.

shield mastery. the only problem with shield mastery is that nexon keeps forgettin to release the reverse shields. we have the TIMELESS ones, but no reverse. it's pretty fkking pointless, but anyway. as things stand in GMS, you can get 168 clean w.defense from just your reverse list. you may think this is pointless because of our avoid, but it's not something you can always count on. our avoid, and shifter, and the invincible frames are awesome, but with equips like the zhelm, htp, and a mastered reverse list, and all your other equips, you can take significantly less damage. combined with a blood build while you max MW, and you become a self-healing ghost tank.

now take into consideration that shield mastery becomes 200% in the kmst revamp, and that defense formulas are likely to change, shield mastery takes only 10 sp, it is not a skill you should ignore. meso explosion and PP really lose their effeciency in 4th job, straight up killing is so much faster, and you will understand this when you're a shad. anywa,y that's 258 w.def from a single, clean equip. scrolling for defense is not stupid, either. you have the extra luck/att and avoid from not being a str dit. i fail to understand why other CBs/shads refuse to acknowledge and consider the awesome tanking potential we have. avoid > MG > shifter > huge def > blood build > invincible frames. we are the most well rounded class in the game, with mid-range melee attacks (steal, bstep).

you call yourself a lolcb because it's cool to be self-depricating about your class, or to make fun of others, but we own, and always have. people just don't exploit the real potential we have.

EDIT: and i train with chakra as well. it's actually very easy to get used to, you simply have to know when exactly a monster will hit you with magic. there is a pretty significant damage decrease (on top of MG) when you're healing. the only time i died was when i had like less than 10 hp and i timed my chakra really late. it feels amazing though to take such few hits, and then use not even use potions when you do. there is something really empowering and satisfying about being (to me, and my build) so autonomous and survivalist with all your skills working together. chakra/SS is a million times better than PP/ME.

[Takebacker]

you call yourself a lolcb because it's cool to be self-depricating about your class.

I just do it because it shows i don't give a s'hit what others think of my class.

[Rayquaza2233]

i'd like to kindly disagree, rayquauza.

first let's talk about chakra. chakra in 3rd job, no, only useful really in the dojo. it's actually extremely useful in the dojo, i should say. but anyway, once you get shifter, then you will realize how important and amazing have max chakra really is. just think about it. if it doesn't click or make sense to you, i'm sorry for your loss.

Did not know shifter activates when Chakra is being used.

shield mastery. the only problem with shield mastery is that nexon keeps forgettin to release the reverse shields. we have the TIMELESS ones, but no reverse. it's pretty fkking pointless, but anyway. as things stand in GMS, you can get 168 clean w.defense from just your reverse list. you may think this is pointless because of our avoid, but it's not something you can always count on. our avoid, and shifter, and the invincible frames are awesome, but with equips like the zhelm, htp, and a mastered reverse list, and all your other equips, you can take significantly less damage. combined with a blood build while you max MW, and you become a self-healing ghost tank.

now take into consideration that shield mastery becomes 200% in the kmst revamp, and that defense formulas are likely to change, shield mastery takes only 10 sp, it is not a skill you should ignore. meso explosion and PP really lose their effeciency in 4th job, straight up killing is so much faster, and you will understand this when you're a shad. anywa,y that's 258 w.def from a single, clean equip. scrolling for defense is not stupid, either. you have the extra luck/att and avoid from not being a str dit. i fail to understand why other CBs/shads refuse to acknowledge and consider the awesome tanking potential we have. avoid > MG > shifter > huge def > blood build > invincible frames. we are the most well rounded class in the game, with mid-range melee attacks (steal, bstep).

I was talking about shield mastery now, not what it could be in the future. PP will lose efficiency, yes. I can't say the same for ME. Not so much for training after 4th job, but for solo bossing? Pretty good skill.

you call yourself a lolcb because it's cool to be self-depricating about your class, or to make fun of others, but we own, and always have. people just don't exploit the real potential we have.

That was a jab at the way I play my chief bandit, not the class itself. :eek: There's about two people on this forum that know what I'm talking about.

EDIT: and i train with chakra as well. it's actually very easy to get used to, you simply have to know when exactly a monster will hit you with magic. there is a pretty significant damage decrease (on top of MG) when you're healing. the only time i died was when i had like less than 10 hp and i timed my chakra really late. it feels amazing though to take such few hits, and then use not even use potions when you do. there is something really empowering and satisfying about being (to me, and my build) so autonomous and survivalist with all your skills working together. chakra/SS is a million times better than PP/ME.

So instead of just killing the monster, you're going to wait for it to use a magic attack so you can heal? How does that not slow training down?

[shagreen heart]

yah, shifter and regular avoid works during chakra. it's really great, i do recommend maxing chakra. at max level i can always heal 49-100% of my HP for a few MP.

i know, it's really hard to sell shield mastery to people, but the future does look very bright. the most important thing to consider is the holistic unison with all your skills in concert.

meso explosion is a good skill, my build just opts not to have it so i can put SP in everything else and keep all my skills tight and holistic. and blowing up money is just crazy talk if you're a true bandit.

we are already the 2nd fastest training class. i know people always want proof and numbers, but training with chakra seriously isn't slow and i really doubt you will notice it if you actually do. just take my word for it.

OT: i've changed my mind about FJ. last night me and a chief oblivion KO'd eachother and he dropped a piece of time (Dx), i raced my heart out to get back in time to loot it, but it had vanished... traveling through the ToT in DS with FJ would be awesome. i'm pretty certain the reason it's called the temple of time is because it consumes so much trying to travel around it.

i see SP being great for shads who get taunt and venom early, such as myself, for PoT hunting . seeing your damage on max taunted chiefs, or max taunted skeles wiht a defense boost will hurt your soul. the DPS output will be great.
i think that the shadow mirror skill willl be better for bossing than training considering how much we move around maps and even more so with FJ.

[Neothisis]

Admittedly, there's no need for the ME/PP combo in current 4th job, but it's definitely not something to be ignored after these updates.
ME will be doing 150% damage per coin, regardless of meso amount, to up to 10 mobs within the explosion range. That's 3000% with 20 coins to a single monster, and that is definitely not a miniscule amount.
KMST Boomerang Step + Shadow Partner is only 1410% to a single mob. Pickpocket has a 80% chance to drop mesos after maxing out Greed, and with a 12 hit Savage Blow, 12 hit Band of Thieves, 6 hit Assaulter, and 16 hit Boomerang Step, it's really not going to be hard to accumulate 20 coins within probably 5 seconds.

[Hanabira.Kage]

Admittedly, there's no need for the ME/PP combo in current 4th job, but it's definitely not something to be ignored after these updates.
ME will be doing 150% damage per coin, regardless of meso amount, to up to 10 mobs within the explosion range. That's 3000% with 20 coins to a single monster, and that is definitely not a miniscule amount.
KMST Boomerang Step + Shadow Partner is only 1410% to a single mob. Pickpocket has a 80% chance to drop mesos after maxing out Greed, and with a 12 hit Savage Blow, 12 hit Band of Thieves, 6 hit Assaulter, and 16 hit Boomerang Step, it's really not going to be hard to accumulate 20 coins within probably 5 seconds.


So Meso Explosion is still undisputedly the strongest non-ultimate skill ever?

Oh wait. Genesis is now 1700% to 15 enemies, right? Assuming no critical hits (for simplicity), that would be 25500% damage in total...versus Meso Explosion's 30000%. o.O Plus ME's so much cheaper.

Oh God. Prepare for massive Shad bandwagoning.

[Rayquaza2233]

So Meso Explosion is still undisputedly the strongest non-ultimate skill ever?

Oh wait. Genesis is now 1700% to 15 enemies, right? Assuming no critical hits (for simplicity), that would be 25500% damage in total...versus Meso Explosion's 30000%. o.O Plus ME's so much cheaper.

Oh God. Prepare for massive Shad bandwagoning.

You just realized there would be a bandwagon?

Are you factoring in the boost Greed gives to ME?

[Hanabira.Kage]

You just realized there would be a bandwagon?

Are you factoring in the boost Greed gives to ME?


I didn't factor it in. But are we REALLY sure that ME's damage is based on the damage range and COMPLETELY independent of the amount of mesos?

[Loose]

If I remember correctly... been a long time since I was a wee Bandit.

First job:
- Max Double Stab
- Max Nimble Body
- 3 Disorder
- 18 Dark Sight

Second job:
- 1 Savage Blow
- 15 Mastery
- 5/6 Booster
- 5 Haste
- Max Steal
- Max Mastery
- Max Savage Blow
- Max Haste
- whatever

Third job:
- 1 Assaulter
- Max Band of Thieves
- Max Shadow Partner

Fourth job:
- Stuff

[Neothisis]

So Meso Explosion is still undisputedly the strongest non-ultimate skill ever?

Oh wait. Genesis is now 1700% to 15 enemies, right? Assuming no critical hits (for simplicity), that would be 25500% damage in total...versus Meso Explosion's 30000%. o.O Plus ME's so much cheaper.

Oh God. Prepare for massive Shad bandwagoning.
Keep in mind Meso Explosion has a MUCH smaller range than any of the ultimate skills.

You just realized there would be a bandwagon?

Are you factoring in the boost Greed gives to ME?
With Greed it's 3800% to a single monster and 38000% to a mob of 10. If you can get 10 in the ME range of course.

[Scaeva]

If Nexon Korea keeps the part where the SP reset scroll allows you to use your 1st job SP on skills of higher jobs not a lot of CBs are going to max Double Stab anymore, just those 13 points for max Dark Sight.

What I would/will do myself:

1st job:
20 Double Stab
10 Dark Sight
10 Disorder (it decreases either att or def by % now, so I'm ok with it)
Dump rest into Nimble Body OR use them at higher job skills.

2nd Job:
20 Mastery
30 Savage Blow
20 Steal
20 Shadow Resistance
20 Haste
11 Booster (20 with 1st job points?)

3rd job:
20 Band of Thieves
20 Assaulter
20 Flash Jump
20 Shadow Partner
10 Meso Guard
10 Chakra
20 Meso Explosion
10 Pickpocket
20 Shadow Mirror
1 Shield Mastery (1st job points?)

4th job:
Whatever is needed and available. Probably max Boomerang Step and Shadow Shifter first, then Greed(maybe Greed before SS because it's only 10 points) then Venom, Assassinate and Taunt, then what's left.

I don't really care about the order for 1st and 2nd job since I already did those (just get Steal first for mobbing). 3rd job will probably have early BoT, Assaulter and FJ, with SP and Shadow Mirror after that, then maxing the rest. The boost of Nimble Body is really small so you can just leave that out and max something else instead (again, if they'll still allow us to use SP from earlier jobs once this hits GMS). We have so many skills now...

[Dusk]

Chakra sucks. You already have the highest avoid in the game, invulnerability frames, and pots are cheap. You don't need to save pots. Chakra wastes about 2 seconds per cast doing nothing you couldn't accomplish by hitting the pot button.

[Loose]

But I like my Chakra. It helps me save money on potions, which I enjoy very much.

By the way, I don't think you can dump 1st job points into higher job skills. Also, we need to check out what that SP Reset thing is, that mentions something about giving one point to all base skills or something like that. It was mentioned in the latest skill updates.

[Cactuar]

Chakra sucks. You already have the highest avoid in the game, invulnerability frames, and pots are cheap. You don't need to save pots. Chakra wastes about 2 seconds per cast doing nothing you couldn't accomplish by hitting the pot button.

It reduces damage taken from 50% to 35%, or rather from 40% to 24%. Chakra is also better than Pickpocket and most definitely better than Shield Mastery unless defense suddenly makes a huge difference in damage taken (doubt it).

As for my build I'd just max everything but shield mastery.

[Dusk]

It reduces damage taken from 50% to 35%, or rather from 40% to 24%. Chakra is also better than Pickpocket and most definitely better than Shield Mastery unless defense suddenly makes a huge difference in damage taken (doubt it).

As for my build I'd just max everything but shield mastery.

I'm not saying don't put points into Chakra. It's definitely better than Pickpocket and Shield Mastery. I'm just saying I don't use it. Training my CB is already much cheaper than training my other classes, and standing still for seconds just to heal a little HP isn't worth it.

[Hanabira.Kage]

Argh. You edited your post before I could quote it! D:

Very old Savage Blow (does anyone still remember this one?):

Lv1~10: 2 hits
Lv11~20: 4 hits
Lv21~30: 6 hits

Current Savage Blow:

Lv1~10: 4 hits
Lv11~20: 5 hits
Lv21~30: 6 hits

New Savage Blow (MSBB):

Lv1~30: 6 hits

It's not the RoA patch that makes SB hit 6 times at all levels, it's the MSBB patch that does.

[Loose]

Very old Savage Blow (does anyone still remember this one?):

Lv1~10: 2 hits
Lv11~20: 4 hits
Lv21~30: 6 hits
Remember? It's the one I grew up with; my first love.

I'm still not sure what to do with 3rd job. I'll probably still end up dropping Pickpocket and boosting it later on with Greed, instead. Unless it's a requirement for Greed.

[Rayquaza2233]

Remember? It's the one I grew up with; my first love.

I'm still not sure what to do with 3rd job. I'll probably still end up dropping Pickpocket and boosting it later on with Greed, instead. Unless it's a requirement for Greed.

Doesn't PP max at 10 after the update?

[Forte]

Doesn't PP max at 10 after the update?

If it does I don't see why anybody would not max it.

[Hanabira.Kage]

If it does I don't see why anybody would not max it.


It does. All Chief Bandit skills had their maximum skill levels reduced by 10... =.=

[Herborist]

I really don't understand most of your builds. Savage blow is great and all, but it can't compare to 220% to 4 enemies. I'm going for max steal ASAP so that I can CPQ my way to 51. After that I'll get mastery, booster, savage blow, and haste. If I don't have enough points I'll leave booster at a lower level.

[Dusk]

I really don't understand most of your builds. Savage blow is great and all, but it can't compare to 220% to 4 enemies. I'm going for max steal ASAP so that I can CPQ my way to 51. After that I'll get mastery, booster, savage blow, and haste. If I don't have enough points I'll leave booster at a lower level.

Maxing Steal means you have to leave Booster at 11. Savage Blow does 540% + 6xcrit and Steal needs to hit 3 targets to outdamage it. Steal is still one of the worst mob skills and gets completely replaced by early 8x.

It's a viable build nonetheless, but I hate the idea of leaving a buff timer at 110 seconds for a skill that won't improve training speed by much and that gets replaced.

[Forte]

I'd rather have 22 steal and 19 booster.

[Dusk]

I'd rather have 22 steal and 19 booster.

Steal maxes at 20. Do you mean 12 Steal and 19 Booster?

[Forte]

Oh did they change it? Haven't really been keeping up with the changes too much. D: Yeah that's what I meant.

[Herborist]

Maxing Steal means you have to leave Booster at 11. Savage Blow does 540% + 6xcrit and Steal needs to hit 3 targets to outdamage it. Steal is still one of the worst mob skills and gets completely replaced by early 8x.

It's a viable build nonetheless, but I hate the idea of leaving a buff timer at 110 seconds for a skill that won't improve training speed by much and that gets replaced.

I don't believe that being able to hit 4 monsters for 220% damage and stun them is slower than savage blow, especially with CPQ. Just the speed increase from 30 - 51 (at CPQ) is worth it. It's not like BoT automatically hits 5 targets for its max damage; I don't even get why it goes down in damage whenever it gains an increase in # of monsters hit, no other mob skills do it.

[Hanabira.Kage]

I don't believe that being able to hit 4 monsters for 220% damage and stun them is slower than savage blow, especially with CPQ. Just the speed increase from 30 - 51 (at CPQ) is worth it. It's not like BoT automatically hits 5 targets for its max damage; I don't even get why it goes down in damage whenever it gains an increase in # of monsters hit, no other mob skills do it.


The MSBB patch does make BoT start off at 319% damage to 4 targets though (Lv1).

[Rayquaza2233]

You can KO monsters with Savage Blow in the time it takes to use Steal.

[Dusk]

I don't believe that being able to hit 4 monsters for 220% damage and stun them is slower than savage blow, especially with CPQ. Just the speed increase from 30 - 51 (at CPQ) is worth it. It's not like BoT automatically hits 5 targets for its max damage; I don't even get why it goes down in damage whenever it gains an increase in # of monsters hit, no other mob skills do it.

I made two ring mules this month. The first one was a Bandit (lol my 3rd one). The secoond one was a Page. On my Bandit, I followed the original 19 Mastery -> 21 SB -> a few Booster -> max SB build. On my Page, I maxed Mastery, added some Booster and then Threaten. Both characters did a mix of Kerning Square and max Rombot TW CPQ from 35->50. The Bandit levelled significantly faster, even though it couldn't mob, just because SB is that strong. I just really don't see the need for Steal, especially with the easier levelling.

I was referring to max BoT when I said that it replaced Steal, but with the new changes BoT can replace Steal at level 1, so all the more reason to leave Steal unmaxed.

Also, I don't see any changed mob data for CPQ. I dunno what they're planning on doing to it, but who's to say that it'll still be the fastest way to level?

[Hazzy]

Also, I don't see any changed mob data for CPQ. I dunno what they're planning on doing to it, but who's to say that it'll still be the fastest way to level?


cpq is 64k A rank win now and 4k A rank lose

This is fast on current standards. Without a massive cut in exp tnl.

[Dusk]

This is fast on current standards. Without a massive cut in exp tnl.

But were the mobs changed? 500 cp is easily soloable with any class, so it doesn't really matter if you have Steal or not.

[Herborist]

I made two ring mules this month. The first one was a Bandit (lol my 3rd one). The secoond one was a Page. On my Bandit, I followed the original 19 Mastery -> 21 SB -> a few Booster -> max SB build. On my Page, I maxed Mastery, added some Booster and then Threaten. Both characters did a mix of Kerning Square and max Rombot TW CPQ from 35->50. The Bandit levelled significantly faster, even though it couldn't mob, just because SB is that strong. I just really don't see the need for Steal, especially with the easier levelling.

I was referring to max BoT when I said that it replaced Steal, but with the new changes BoT can replace Steal at level 1, so all the more reason to leave Steal unmaxed.

Also, I don't see any changed mob data for CPQ. I dunno what they're planning on doing to it, but who's to say that it'll still be the fastest way to level?

How is any data you've collected in GMS relevant at all when we're discussing unrleased changes from KMS?

By your logic we should skip BoT too because boomerang step is stronger. Steal makes 2nd job go faster, and while many of you may not agree with me, 30 - 80 is the hardest part of being a bandit. I know some may say that 90 - 120 is harder, but I trained my friend's CB from 93 to 122 and I had no trouble at all.

[Rayquaza2233]

No, your association is incorrect. Steal gets COMPLETELY outclassed by BoT. More damage, hits more targets. BoT hits more targets than BS, but BS does more damage and stuns.

[Dusk]

How is any data you've collected in GMS relevant at all when we're discussing unrleased changes from KMS?

By your logic we should skip BoT too because boomerang step is stronger. Steal makes 2nd job go faster, and while many of you may not agree with me, 30 - 80 is the hardest part of being a bandit. I know some may say that 90 - 120 is harder, but I trained my friend's CB from 93 to 122 and I had no trouble at all.

That wasn't data, that was an anecdote about how mob skill does not translate to SUPAR FAST LEVELZ. And no, 43-80 is by far the easiest part of part of being a Bandit, or at least it has been for as long as MS has existed. Until Cygnus Knights and etc came out, Savage Blow was THE strongest attack in 2nd job. People often associate Assassins with being fast levellers even though they don't have any mob skills. It escapes me why they ignore Bandits. Range hasn't been an issue since they started flooding us with crowded maps like MP3 and Windraiders.

Also, Bombing Elder Wraiths is pretty much the fastest solo exp in 7x in the game right now, but of course that won't be an option once we get this patch.

[Loose]

While I was creating my Critical Ring mule, I made a Bandit, thinking that Steal was going to help speed the leveling process. My brother has a Steal using Bandit, that he made a while before the this GMS balance patch, I decided to give it a test drive. Somehow, it didn't seem that fast, I felt that Savage Blow was the way to go, it didn't matter that Steal hits many mobs, it felt unnatural and weird and sluggish.

Now I decided to remain on the Savage Blow path, because I think it's faster. Steal might be faster in some maps, but I'm just not feeling it. I still think that Savage Blow will be the way to go, but now Steal can also become an option to those that prefer mobbing.

[Herborist]

No, your association is incorrect. Steal gets COMPLETELY outclassed by BoT. More damage, hits more targets. BoT hits more targets than BS, but BS does more damage and stuns.


That wasn't data, that was an anecdote about how mob skill does not translate to SUPAR FAST LEVELZ. And no, 43-80 is by far the easiest part of part of being a Bandit, or at least it has been for as long as MS has existed. Until Cygnus Knights and etc came out, Savage Blow was THE strongest attack in 2nd job. People often associate Assassins with being fast levellers even though they don't have any mob skills. It escapes me why they ignore Bandits. Range hasn't been an issue since they started flooding us with crowded maps like MP3 and Windraiders.

Also, Bombing Elder Wraiths is pretty much the fastest solo exp in 7x in the game right now, but of course that won't be an option once we get this patch.

Using steal during 2nd job is faster than using savage blow, even if only for CPQ. Disregarding a strong mob skill just because it becomes obsolete in the future is poor logic. As for training speeds, it's been long known that bandits are the slowest 2nd job trainers. But you don't have to agree with me, I've started more than my fair share of bandits just to quit them because savage blowing my way to 70 is ridiculous.

Also, I'd like to add that you're disregarding steal in favor of savage blow because it does more damage despite hitting fewer targets, but you won't disregard BoT and steal in favor of boomerang step even though it does more damage but hits fewer targets. In case that was too cryptic, your dogma is self-contradictory and you're hypocrites.

[Dusk]

Using steal during 2nd job is faster than using savage blow, even if only for CPQ. Disregarding a strong mob skill just because it becomes obsolete in the future is poor logic. As for training speeds, it's been long known that bandits are the slowest 2nd job trainers. But you don't have to agree with me, I've started more than my fair share of bandits just to quit them because savage blowing my way to 70 is ridiculous.

Also, I'd like to add that you're disregarding steal in favor of savage blow because it does more damage despite hitting fewer targets, but you won't disregard BoT and steal in favor of boomerang step even though it does more damage but hits fewer targets. In case that was too cryptic, your dogma is self-contradictory and you're hypocrites.

It's not about targets and numbers, it's about what replaces what. Getting BStep does not mean you'll never use BoT again. Getting BoT (and maybe ME) means you'll never use Steal again. Bandits are not the slowest 2nd job trainers at all; their training speed isn't spectacular but it certainly doesn't suck. Hitting one target for 480% damage exceeds the total damage output of many other classes on mobs of 3-4 (I/L mages, Clerics, Gunslingers), and that's under the favorable assumption that you constantly have mobs to hit (which you don't, not even in CPQ once you're past level 43ish, and certainly not in your average training spot). Of course I'm using comparisons based on the game we're currently playing, but I think the point still stands. I would NOT leave a buff I'm going to be using forever at 110 seconds when I could max it at the cost of skipping a mob skill that will only help me for a short while.

Edit: Third job is a MUCH longer ride than second job. You have got to be kidding me about going through 2nd job with only 11 Steal being the same as going through 3rd job without BoT. You're forgetting the main reason we DON'T max Steal is so that we can max Booster. BoT can be maxed without skipping any important skills.

[Cactuar]

In steal's defense, it is actually usable for item hunting along with BS on mobs that take more than 2 hits.

[Rayquaza2233]

Using steal during 2nd job is faster than using savage blow, even if only for CPQ. Disregarding a strong mob skill just because it becomes obsolete in the future is poor logic. As for training speeds, it's been long known that bandits are the slowest 2nd job trainers. But you don't have to agree with me, I've started more than my fair share of bandits just to quit them because savage blowing my way to 70 is ridiculous.

Also, I'd like to add that you're disregarding steal in favor of savage blow because it does more damage despite hitting fewer targets, but you won't disregard BoT and steal in favor of boomerang step even though it does more damage but hits fewer targets. In case that was too cryptic, your dogma is self-contradictory and you're hypocrites.

You clearly haven't trained right, then. CPQ is fast for a bandit with Savage Blow, and in GMS, a lot of people train on Gryphons 50-60. What does Steal do? Stun. What does stun do? Make flying monsters fall. Savage Blow wins out. Hoodoos/Voodoos only spawn in mobs of 4, and they're not in Steal range. Savage Blow wins out. Trying to mob Windraiders with a 220% mob skill is lol. Past that, it's BoT to 125.

EDIT : Bentuar, I'm not discounting Steal as completely useless, it's just not worth maxing when compared to other options.

[Takebacker]

Who the hell still trains on gryphons and h/voodoos?

[Rayquaza2233]

I do. ._. Fine, more recent example. MP3. Spamming Steal takes longer to kill monsters when compared to Savage Blow since Savage Blow 2-3HKOs four monsters for a total of 8-12 hits, and Steal takes what, 20 uses? If another monster comes into the mob, have fun. A mob larger than 4 will fuck up your shit, that doesn't happen with Savage Blow.

[Takebacker]

Dude, large mobs only makes it easier for steal to f'uck SBs s'hit up. If steal kills 1 of those 4 original mobs before the other 3, it can hit that new mob. Besides, the monsters are stunned and steal has huge range. If anything, mobs larger than 4 f'uck up SB usage.

[Dusk]

Dude, large mobs only makes it easier for steal to f'uck SBs s'hit up. If steal kills 1 of those 4 original mobs before the other 3, it can hit that new mob. Besides, the monsters are stunned and steal has huge range. If anything, mobs larger than 4 f'uck up SB usage.

Since when does Steal stun and actually have a decent range?

[Takebacker]

Since when does Steal stun and actually have a decent range?

250% range to one side vs 150% range on BoT for both sides, and the tables don't have any indication of steals stun being removed. 250% range is pretty good for 1) a bandit skill or 2) a 2nd job mob skill in general.

[Loose]

My brother kept getting annoyed at Steal's stun in CPQ, it prevent him from being able to gather mobs in Steal's range. : \

[Dusk]

250% range to one side vs 150% range on BoT for both sides, and the tables don't have any indication of steals stun being removed. 250% range is pretty good for 1) a bandit skill or 2) a 2nd job mob skill in general.

Oh, I didn't even realize Steal stunned in GMS. It doesn't seem to stun in that one Shadower video we've seen so far. 250% range is terrible. I've played a Gunslinger (pre-buff).

[Rayquaza2233]

Dude, large mobs only makes it easier for steal to f'uck SBs s'hit up. If steal kills 1 of those 4 original mobs before the other 3, it can hit that new mob. Besides, the monsters are stunned and steal has huge range. If anything, mobs larger than 4 f'uck up SB usage.

And what if it doesn't? 6 hits to one monster in one attack provides more damage stability than 1 hit to 1 monster per attack.

[Takebacker]

250% range is terrible. I've played a Gunslinger (pre-buff).

250% range is terrible for a gunslinger, but 250% range is excellent for a 2nd job bandit.


And what if it doesn't? 6 hits to one monster in one attack provides more damage stability than 1 hit to 1 monster per attack.

Who cares about stability when in large mobs? In that situation (a situation you will encounter literally all the time when training) the best thing is to just kill as fast as possible and you can't really argue that steal isn't the best thing available for that purpose. You can train fine with SB, but you can train way faster with steal.

[rhpot03]

No, your association is incorrect. Steal gets COMPLETELY outclassed by BoT. More damage, hits more targets. BoT hits more targets than BS, but BS does more damage and stuns.

Not true, you'll know when the mob behind you get venomed down to 1hp and you just used bstep to kill something in front and your bot can't finish the stuffs behind you because it can't reach...

[Cactuar]

Not true, you'll know when the mob behind you get venomed down to 1hp and you just used bstep to kill something in front and your bot can't finish the stuffs behind you because it can't reach...

Turn around a BoT it then.

Also, you guys are forgetting that this is post-revamp, meaning steal does 300% damage versus BoT's 395%.

[Dusk]

250% range is terrible for a gunslinger, but 250% range is excellent for a 2nd job bandit.

Let's get back to the main issue here. Would you leave Booster at 11 just to max Steal? I'm speaking as someone who already owns 2 CBs and a level 50 Bandit, so I can ignore the fact that Steal even exists and go ahead and max a skill that's more useful in the long run. I accept that post-revamp Steal would make training faster than pure SB, but I still don't think it's worth it.

[Takebacker]

Let's get back to the main issue here. Would you leave Booster at 11 just to max Steal? I'm speaking as someone who already owns 2 CBs and a level 50 Bandit, so I can ignore the fact that Steal even exists and go ahead and max a skill that's more useful in the long run.

Having raised a 9x CB myself, yes, if i were raising a new bandit i would max steal. Obviously not if you're already a CB though.

If you have a pet that auto-casts skills in KMS you could even leave booster at level 2 and be fine. I wouldn't do that though just because it would increase cast lock up. :/

[rhpot03]

Turn around a BoT it then.
Have you even played a shadower? BoT range is about 1/3 of bstep range

[Cactuar]

Have you even played a shadower? BoT range is about 1/3 of bstep range

I have a level 145 Shadower, thank you very much. And if it's "that far" out of range I can assaulter back to it or ignore it and come back through later. Naming one specific instance where you MIGHT need steal is just silly, considering in the time it'd take me to turn around and use it BS's new cooldown would be over and I could just BS it! Or us assaulter!

[rhpot03]

I have a level 145 Shadower, thank you very much. And if it's "that far" out of range I can assaulter back to it or ignore it and come back through later. Naming one specific instance where you MIGHT need steal is just silly, considering in the time it'd take me to turn around and use it BS's new cooldown would be over and I could just BS it! Or us assaulter!

The original argument was to state that steal is not completely outclassed by BoT, and the sooner you finish a mob, the better your spawn is. BoT's efficiency is largely dependent on your positioning, it's best when you're in the middle of a mob. Assaultering behind you is just counter-productive. And by your logic there's no reason to use BoT at all in all cases if you can just spam bstep on everything

[Loose]

If you're a Chief Bandit and up, Steal is useless. "Oh no! There's a monster a quite far away from me! What shall I ever do!?" You Assaulter at that sucker or Flash Jump towards it and make it say hello to Savage Blow or Band of Thieves in case of a mob around it.

If you're a Bandit, you either walk the mobbing path of Steal or one on one way of Savage Blow. It looks like it's just a matter of preference. Steal's another weapon in the arsenal of Bandits, but I prefer my max Savage Blow and Booster.


BoT's efficiency is largely dependent on your positioning, it's best when you're in the middle of a mob.
And what's stopping you from getting in the middle of that mob? You've got Haste, Assaulter and now Flash Jump. With maybe one or two Steals while jumping towards the middle of the mob will leave you perfect for Band of Thieves. Same can be done with just one Assaulter and your Band of Thieves is ready to go.

[Rayquaza2233]

BoT works out well when there are monsters behind you. Can't BStep those.

[rhpot03]

And what's stopping you from getting in the middle of that mob? You've got Haste, Assaulter and now Flash Jump. With maybe one or two Steals while jumping towards the middle of the mob will leave you perfect for Band of Thieves. Same can be done with just one Assaulter and your Band of Thieves is ready to go.
Bstep is single-sided while BoT hits both sides. If you're cycling a map and moving forward, it's not efficient to move backward just to finish off mobs that your BoT started to kill but cannot finish. Just use one steal behind you to finish them and keep going forward

[Rayquaza2233]

It may not have been efficient before, but we can kind of triple jump now with regular jump, FJ, and assaulter. Much more mobility.

[Loose]

Just use one steal behind you to finish them and keep going forward
Or, you know, Boomerang Step, since it has more range that Steal and deals more damage.

[Dusk]

How often are you in BStep cooldown and just happen to have a monster so low on HP it can be killed with Steal behind you, just out of reach of your other skills? That is a really ridiculous scenario. Anyway, Assaulter to it and Flash Jump back over to what you were doing.

[Herborist]

Maxing steal early is faster training than with savage blow (the 220% steal, not the 130%). Savage blow is strong, but not strong enough to make up for a 4x hit mob attack that does 220% damage. Whether BoT replaces it or not is irrelevant - that's the whole point of getting another job, to replace older skills. Assaulter and boomerang step will replace savage blow easily (the new ones), so we shouldn't get that either?

Rayquaza, all of the training spots you've listed are outdated. I'd CPQ from 31 - 51, then go to FoG or MP3 with the new steal. Why would I go to gryphons...?

As for which levels are harder, that's entirely opinion.

[Rayquaza2233]

Why wouldn't you go to Gryphons? At level 55 it was an OHKO for 220 EXP, I think that's better than FoG personally.

[Dusk]

Why wouldn't you go to Gryphons? At level 55 it was an OHKO for 220 EXP, I think that's better than FoG personally.

It's an incredibly annoying map. You can 4hko Windraiders at that level for 800 exp. FoG and MP3 are terrible exp at that level.

(before anyone says anything about needing pro equips to 4hko, you only need decent gear like a zhelm, a scrolled dagger and glove, some blessing, and a not messed up build to do so - and 5hko isn't shabby exp either)

[Herborist]

Why wouldn't you go to Gryphons? At level 55 it was an OHKO for 220 EXP, I think that's better than FoG personally.

FoG is better because of the mobbing - you can easily mob without anywhere near as much of the hassle. But I wouldn't be at FoG anyway, I'd go to MP3 or wind raiders (probably wind raiders since I can do the PQ now and there's rarely anyone there on Mardia).

[Herborist]

Just thought you might all like to see this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3whlm7vACA

[rhpot03]

After the lv14x shadower at blue wyvern video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ9_hIwHUn0)

If you look between (2:00-2:05), you'll see that the bstep delay is almost non-existent.

I think there's no need to use any other attack than bstep and assaulter after big bang. It might be better to spam bstep instead of assassinate/bstep combo at bosses as well.

[Herborist]

After the lv14x shadower at blue wyvern video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ9_hIwHUn0)

If you look between (2:00-2:05), you'll see that the bstep delay is almost non-existent.

I think there's no need to use any other attack than bstep and assaulter after big bang. It might be better to spam bstep instead of assassinate/bstep combo at bosses as well.

Unless of course you're not 4th job. Nice video, though - anyone know what that giant shuriken that gives off sparks is?

[Cactuar]

Unless of course you're not 4th job. Nice video, though - anyone know what that giant shuriken that gives off sparks is?

Devil's mirror. It returns 1300% of damage taken for 60 seconds, and it has a 60 second cooldown.

[Herborist]

Devil's mirror. It returns 1300% of damage taken for 60 seconds, and it has a 60 second cooldown.

1300% of the damage the shadower takes, or it takes? Also, what's its range?

[Cactuar]

1300% of the damage the shadower takes, or it takes? Also, what's its range?

Shadower takes, and I don't know what the range is but I'm pretty sure it's something like "If you can see it, then it'll work."

EDIT: And, apparently, the damage reflected is 1300% of the damage BEFORE Meso guard takes effect.

[Dusk]

Shadower takes, and I don't know what the range is but I'm pretty sure it's something like "If you can see it, then it'll work."

EDIT: And, apparently, the damage reflected is 1300% of the damage BEFORE Meso guard takes effect.

No, it does 1300% damage when you get hit.

[Cactuar]

No, it does 1300% damage when you get hit.

This video disagrees with you, sir:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIzXwDhBFIA&

EDIT: 3:48. He takes 861 damage, papulatus takes 27963 damage. 861 * 13 = 11193 as the highest possible value. Let's assume he has maxed greed (so meso guard takes 60% off instead of 50). 861 / .4 = 2152.5. 2152 * 13 = 27976. Number is far closer than if it was affected by Meso guard.

[Dusk]

This video disagrees with you, sir:


Well, I guess we're both wrong, because it's certainly not doing 1300% damage of what it took. Do the math.

At one point he takes 861 damage and the mirror reflects 27963.

Edit: That's around 3248% or 1624% not counting MG. Grid might boost the mirror by 20%, but 120% of 1300% is 1560%. No idea how it does the damage it does.

He definitely maxed it. It lasts an entire minute. 1624% is much higher than the maxed damage.

[Cactuar]

Well, I guess we're both wrong, because it's certainly not doing 1300% damage of what it took. Do the math.

At one point he takes 861 damage and the mirror reflects 27963.

It's also possible he didn't max it. Or there is a damage variance. Point being it is approximately 13 times the amount of damage you take.

EDIT: Yeah, you're right. He definitely maxed it.

[Neothisis]

Just thought you might all like to see this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3whlm7vACA

I spy with my little eye...a baby Bandit that 2HKOs with Steal and OHKOs with SB...
He needs to train somewhere better. And make use of SB.
Liking the Shad vid. =D
That end part where he Assaultered the Pap to death was orgasmic.

[Herborist]

I spy with my little eye...a baby Bandit that 2HKOs with Steal and OHKOs with SB...
He needs to train somewhere better. And make use of SB.
Liking the Shad vid. =D
That end part where he Assaultered the Pap to death was orgasmic.

Steal hits 4 targets, so if he can kill 4 with 2 hits of steal and 2 with 2 hits of SB, then steal is twice as fast. Those drakes aren't the same drakes we have - their exp and hp has been boosted and I can't make out what kind of exp he's getting, but I assume it's a good spot with all that spawn.

[Dusk]

Steal hits 4 targets, so if he can kill 4 with 2 hits of steal and 2 with 2 hits of SB, then steal is twice as fast. Those drakes aren't the same drakes we have - their exp and hp has been boosted and I can't make out what kind of exp he's getting, but I assume it's a good spot with all that spawn.

What spawn? Steal doesn't make training any faster in a spot like that. There were hardly any points in the video where you could line 4 drakes up for Steal. Anyway, already been over this. Obviously having Steal > not having Steal, but there isn't a single place you can train where you can consistently hit 4 targets over and over again. It's not going to double your training speed. A mob skill outdamages a single target skill in one use. Duh.

2nd job is fast as hell as it is, I'm not sure why you're still stuck on needing it to be faster.

[Herborist]

What spawn? Steal doesn't make training any faster in a spot like that. There were hardly any points in the video where you could line 4 drakes up for Steal. Anyway, already been over this. Obviously having Steal > not having Steal, but there isn't a single place you can train where you can consistently hit 4 targets over and over again. It's not going to double your training speed. A mob skill outdamages a single target skill in one use. Duh.

2nd job is fast as hell as it is, I'm not sure why you're still stuck on needing it to be faster.

This forum is the only place - and I do mean only, I've been to all the forums in my 5 years playing - that considers 2nd job bandits to be anything but grueling treks. I don't know what's going on, but bandits are hard to train. They just are. KMS even made everyone's 1st and 2nd job skills mob - even magic claw - because of this. So I'm not going to bother arguing anymore and instead my response will be "Steal is faster." to anything that even hints otherwise.

[Dusk]

This forum is the only place - and I do mean only, I've been to all the forums in my 5 years playing - that considers 2nd job bandits to be anything but grueling treks. I don't know what's going on, but bandits are hard to train. They just are. KMS even made everyone's 1st and 2nd job skills mob - even magic claw - because of this. So I'm not going to bother arguing anymore and instead my response will be "Steal is faster." to anything that even hints otherwise.

Forums like Basil are full of people who've never made it to 3rd job and people who don't have any idea how to build their characters. You're the only person here that seems to find it hard. If you're going to go back to 5 years ago, when we didn't have proper places to spam mob skills, then Bandits just get even better. At places like Zombies, Lusters, STDs, it's simply faster to run through 1hkoing everything than to gather mobs and beat them down in 2-3 hits. Bandits were considered one of the fastest trainers before we got spam spots like MP3, and they're still in the middle of the pack without Steal.

Anyway, with the new exp curve it should be possible to reach 70 in only a couple dozen hours of playtime. It's not that important.

[Herborist]

Forums like Basil are full of people who've never made it to 3rd job and people who don't have any idea how to build their characters. You're the only person here that seems to find it hard. If you're going to go back to 5 years ago, when we didn't have proper places to spam mob skills, then Bandits just get even better. At places like Zombies, Lusters, STDs, it's simply faster to run through 1hkoing everything than to gather mobs and beat them down in 2-3 hits. Bandits were considered one of the fastest trainers before we got spam spots like MP3, and they're still in the middle of the pack without Steal.

Anyway, with the new exp curve it should be possible to reach 70 in only a couple dozen hours of playtime. It's not that important.

I don't count basil for anything in any category. Ever.

Most other jobs have mob skills, which is faster training; as if it wasn't enough for normal training, it's also faster in CPQ. Bandits, despite having a very strong single hit attack, have only a single hit attack, i.e., inherently slower. I just don't understand why you're resisting this. It doesn't even make sense. It's not even an either or kind of thing, you can get both, it's just better to get steal first...

Couple dozen hours? 24+ hours? That's still a lot of time to me...

[Dusk]

This is the most unproductive discussion ever. You enjoy maxing Steal and shaving an hour of training time off 2nd job and having to recast Booster twice as often. I already have a CB and could care less.

v Prove me wrong.

[Herborist]

This is the most unproductive discussion ever. You enjoy maxing Steal and shaving an hour of training time off 2nd job and having to recast Booster twice as often. I already have a CB and could care less.

An hour? Now you're trying to evoke a response from me. -_-''

[Rayquaza2233]

Most other jobs have mob skills, which is faster training; as if it wasn't enough for normal training, it's also faster in CPQ.

Good luck lining up four Rombots in room 5/6 to use Steal on.

[Loose]

4 - 5 Chief Bandits and Shadowers in this thread agree, Savage Blow is better than Steal for 2nd job training.

[Hanabira.Kage]

4 - 5 Chief Bandits and Shadowers in this thread agree, Savage Blow is better than Steal for 2nd job training.


The 220% Steal will still outdamage Savage Blow on 3 targets so I personally don't think it's all that bad. But I guess Savage Blow is what everyone is used to so...

Maxed Steal, in terms of damage, will be replaced by Lv1 BoT anyway so I'm personally not maxing it out.

[Loose]

The problem is that the skill points are limited. It's either low Steal and max Booster or low Booster and max Steal.

I don't see a point in sacrificing a long life friend (Booster), for some chick (Steal) that'll get dumped in a couple of hours because I'll meet her attractive, sexy cousin (Band of Thieves). Boomerang Step is just her lesbian friend (who is also quite hot) that wants to join in on the threesome.

[Herborist]

Good luck lining up four Rombots in room 5/6 to use Steal on.

3/4 is the best room, and I can line up 4 - 6 there usually. Why are all of your training suggestions outdated?


The problem is that the skill points are limited. It's either low Steal and max Booster or low Booster and max Steal.

I don't see a point in sacrificing a long life friend (Booster), for some chick (Steal) that'll get dumped in a couple of hours because I'll meet her attractive, sexy cousin (Band of Thieves). Boomerang Step is just her lesbian friend (who is also quite hot) that wants to join in on the threesome.

You can get low level steal, it's still worth it, especially at CPQ. And again, by that logic, skip everything besides boomerang step because everything else is directly inferior.

[Dusk]

3/4 is the best room, and I can line up 4 - 6 there usually. Why are all of your training suggestions outdated?



You can get low level steal, it's still worth it, especially at CPQ. And again, by that logic, skip everything besides boomerang step because everything else is directly inferior.

And once again, you are ignoring the fact that you need to drop 9 points from Steal to max Booster, whereas BoT can be maxed without any drawbacks. No one said Steal is entirely useless. Our argument is that it's not "worth it." BoT is also faster than Step and useable in midair, so no, it's not directly inferior.

[Herborist]

And once again, you are ignoring the fact that you need to drop 9 points from Steal to max Booster, whereas BoT can be maxed without any drawbacks. No one said Steal is entirely useless. Our argument is that it's not "worth it." BoT is also faster than Step and useable in midair, so no, it's not directly inferior.

What would you use those 9 points on otherwise? Endure? Ha!

You're being contrary for the sake of arguing now.

[Dusk]

What would you use those 9 points on otherwise? Endure? Ha!

You're being contrary for the sake of arguing now.

What's Endure? There's a skill called Booster that boosts your attack speed by -2 for 200 seconds if you max it.

And yes, if Endure existed, I would max it over Steal.

[Neothisis]

Steal feels slow in comparison to SB...and Endure has been replaced by Shadow Resistance which you would be stupid not to max.
And Boomerang Step doesn't render other mob skills useless...it's been said already here, BStep is one direction, BoT is multiple. BoT is spammable, BStep has a delay.
Also, level 11 Steal with 255% damage to 3 mobs is something I can live with compared to 300% to 4 mobs.

[Rayquaza2233]

3/4 is the best room, and I can line up 4 - 6 there usually. Why are all of your training suggestions outdated?

My bandit was second job two years ago. By the way, most of my training suggestions still work.

[Herborist]

What's Endure? There's a skill called Booster that boosts your attack speed by -2 for 200 seconds if you max it.

And yes, if Endure existed, I would max it over Steal.

I'm not bothering with you anymore. No one in their right mind would argue about the merits of a mob skill worth a single hit skill whose damage isn't sufficient to compensate for being a single hit skill.


My bandit was second job two years ago. By the way, most of my training suggestions still work.

I've trained around 7 characters to 50, so no, they don't. I can go 31 - 50 in around 2 days at CPQ in room 3 or 4, and that's without grinding. If you have steal there, it triples your training speed - and yes, it's not only possible, it's extremely common for you to have mobs of up to 10 in a straight line (4 - 6 of which are rombots).

Or you can opt to stick with savage blow, never get chosen for a party in CPQ (or get low points every time you do), and have leveling take much longer. Whatever floats your boat.

[Rayquaza2233]

Were any of those 7 bandits?

Yeah, um, your last point is completely invalid. I soloed 600-900 on my bandit with a CLEAN level 43 Maple... whatever the dagger's called in room 5/6, which is (was? I dunno) among the more popular rooms.

[Dusk]

Strongest single target skill in 2nd job isn't sufficient? You have got to be pineappleing kidding me. My Bandit easily got 1400+ CP in CPQ in mid-4x in Room 3/4 summons. That's not ARAN-speed, but that's not slow. Bandits currently outdamage many other classes when they're hitting 2 (or even 3) targets with their mob skill. Count how many targets you're hitting with mob skills some time. See if you can consistently hit anywhere close to max targets with a short range skill like Steal.


triples your training speed

Sorry, CPQ is going to have to spawn twice as fast and not give exp on wins, and Steal needs to be doing as much damage as SB for that to happen.

[Herborist]

480&#37; damage to 1 target < 220% damage to 4 targets. Even if steal's damage is only 125%, it's still faster than savage blow provided you can hit the maximum amount of targets, which is very possible in CPQ.

Hitting one monster at a time is slower than hitting multiple monsters. I'm not going to argue this anymore, and I'm especially not going to argue whether 3/4 > 5/6 when a quick check of spiegelman's office in ch 1 is proof enough that there's no one doing 3v3 precisely BECAUSE it's spread out and less mobs for everyone.

But please, feel free to go against the most simple of logic and do as you please. I feel like I'm trying to dissuade you guys from getting on the Hindenburg...

[Dusk]

"Steal is more powerful than SB"
"Steal is more powerful than SB"
"Steal is more powerful than SB"

This is the only point you've had. Thanks, we don't care. Can someone who actually plays KMS give us an idea of how many gameplay hours it actually takes to get to level 70? And has anyone tried CPQ post-revamp?

[Herborist]

"Steal is more powerful than SB"
"Steal is more powerful than SB"
"Steal is more powerful than SB"

This is the only point you've had. Thanks, we don't care. Can someone who actually plays KMS give us an idea of how many gameplay hours it actually takes to get to level 70? And has anyone tried CPQ post-revamp?

I'm sorry you're bitter, but if you insist on trolling me then I'll report you. =)

[Dusk]

Who's bitter? You haven't even attempted to argue against any of our points. All you've done is rehash that one statement over and over again and then sidetrack the discussion to make up for the lack of content in your posts. That's what I mean by "we don't care."

[Herborist]

Yes, this forum is awesome not like all the others. I'm liking it here. Feel free to take forever to get to 3rd job.

[Dusk]

Yes, this forum is awesome not like all the others. I'm liking it here. Feel free to take forever to get to 3rd job.

I'm already 3rd job o_o

[FluffyFoxxie]

Yes, this forum is awesome not like all the others. I'm liking it here. Feel free to take forever to get to 3rd job.

I don't think that levelling slightly faster via maxing steal is worth having a halfway effective booster. Also, why do you keep on talking about CPQ as the fastest means through 2nd job, it only gets you to lvl 51, which is like, 1/4 of the way to lvl 70 (time-taken-wise.) I don't know why you're being so stubborn about the issue, I think most people would be fine with the SLIGHTLY slower training speed through 2nd job in exchange for having maxed booster 'till lvl 200.

[Hanabira.Kage]

Yes, this forum is awesome not like all the others. I'm liking it here. Feel free to take forever to get to 3rd job.


There are numerous people who've made it to 3rd Job without a mobbing skill as a Bandit. I've done it twice (one's a STR Bandit, and the other's a LUK Bandit).

[Tay]

"Steal is more powerful than SB"
"Steal is more powerful than SB"
"Steal is more powerful than SB"

This is the only point you've had. Thanks, we don't care. Can someone who actually plays KMS give us an idea of how many gameplay hours it actually takes to get to level 70? And has anyone tried CPQ post-revamp?

I don't have bandit insight but I do have earlylevel insight, most bandits on kMS will go steal first.
Why?
Levels 35-51, I think, are the kerning square levels? There are these monsters in KS called pepe machines and yeti machines. These things give about 90ish EXP for machine, and 81 EXP per pepe. Leveling to 50 is such a joke with these monsters, and 1v1ing those doesnt sound like much fun.

Also, cPQ is now useless. You get about 7k per A rank win. Monsters still have their same EXP and itd be a nice grind, but you could do without it.

[Hanabira.Kage]

I don't have bandit insight but I do have earlylevel insight, most bandits on kMS will go steal first.
Why?
Levels 35-51, I think, are the kerning square levels? There are these monsters in KS called pepe machines and yeti machines. These things give about 90ish EXP for machine, and 81 EXP per pepe. Leveling to 50 is such a joke with these monsters, and 1v1ing those doesnt sound like much fun.

Also, cPQ is now useless. You get about 7k per A rank win. Monsters still have their same EXP and itd be a nice grind, but you could do without it.


I'd do it for the necklace (and perhaps the Lv50 weapon x.x), though.

How about CPQ2?

p.s. WHAT?! NEXON INCREASED THE EXP GIVEN BY THE TOYS FROM THE MACHINES?! I so wanna play in KMS now. :(

[Tay]

I'd do it for the necklace (and perhaps the Lv50 weapon x.x), though.

How about CPQ2?

p.s. WHAT?! NEXON INCREASED THE EXP GIVEN BY THE TOYS FROM THE MACHINES?! I so wanna play in KMS now. :(

I don't really know about cPQ2.
On kMS cPQ2 monsters only gave 1EXP, but I don't know if they changed it.

Small tidbit;
Also, gotta say SP + Assaulter may outdamage SP+SB. I haven't really looked into, with my assaulter being lv5, but I know for sure I 1hko things with assaulter that I don't with SB (assuming I'm using Max Shadow Partner for all these scenarios.)

[Locked]

CPQ with full rombots is like 1-2 level every PQ at level 30-46.

[Scaeva]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acCCjz3Zv0c

I don't think you can go from Lv.34 to 35 in ~2 minutes of training without Steal as a Bandit. There's a reason Warriors go Slash Blast first, I/L mages go Thunderbolt first. Although more than 11 Steal is overkill, getting that should be the first thing a 2nd job Bandit does(as long as they have Big Bang).

[Dusk]

I don't have bandit insight but I do have earlylevel insight, most bandits on kMS will go steal first.
Why?
Levels 35-51, I think, are the kerning square levels? There are these monsters in KS called pepe machines and yeti machines. These things give about 90ish EXP for machine, and 81 EXP per pepe. Leveling to 50 is such a joke with these monsters, and 1v1ing those doesnt sound like much fun.

Also, cPQ is now useless. You get about 7k per A rank win. Monsters still have their same EXP and itd be a nice grind, but you could do without it.

Wow. Those monsters give 5 exp in GMS right now. I could definitely see going 11 Steal first for something like that.