Crimon Gaurdian training?

[Kabanaw]

I was wondering, could the Crimson Gaurdian be good training for F/Ps and I/Ls? With ID at a high enough level so it lasts 15 seconds and hits 6 mobs, you could quickly I/FD the map and then use blizzard, which at a high enough level could easily 2 hit them when including the poison damage from I/FD, which could make this amazing training.

[randompeep]

I suppose you could, but it's a heck of a long way to repot in NLC, even if you can skip VoH, return scroll to Haunted House or NLC, and go back again. (But skeles are no farther away, I suppose.)

[Kabanaw]

I suppose you could, but it's a heck of a long way to repot in NLC, even if you can skip VoH, return scroll to Haunted House or NLC, and go back again. (But skeles are no farther away, I suppose.)

It's actually a really quick trip, if you think about it. It's a quick stop in NLC, and it probably won't take longer than 5 minutes just to get to the map. It takes longer for me to get all the pots i need from NLC off a mule >.>

[Hazzy]

The only annoying part of traveling there would be the maze, which is memorizable, or the JQ, which really isn't that hard. o_0

[Myles]

The only annoying part of traveling there would be the maze, which is memorizable, or the JQ, which really isn't that hard. o_0

It's also way faster if you have that thingy which teleports you around the map :shine:

[Wiggy]

It would be good but the F/P's can mist that map(I think..since it works with Himes)They just F/D them then mist.
I might be wrong though. ^.^

[Hazzy]

It would be good but the F/P's can mist that map(I think..since it works with Himes)They just F/D them then mist.
I might be wrong though. ^.^

It would work, but do poison and Fire Demon stack? I doubt it. :[

[butterfλi]

It would work, but do poison and Fire Demon stack? I doubt it. :[

They don't stack and they don't need to stack. With a map that small, FP would have to dual channel it.

And ice/fire demon'ing every single monster on that map is dumb. There are only two rows of them and the middle row mobs are very thick--more than 6 monsters. You can't remove all their resistant fast or effectively enough to make them good training. Running around the map, getting hit by 3.6k is not only dangerous but costly and slow.

I don't see anything in CK for archmages yet.

[Kabanaw]

They don't stack and they don't need to stack. With a map that small, FP would have to dual channel it.

And ice/fire demon'ing every single monster on that map is dumb. There are only two rows of them and the middle row mobs are very thick--more than 6 monsters. You can't remove all their resistant fast or effectively enough to make them good training. Running around the map, getting hit by 3.6k is not only dangerous but costly and slow.

I don't see anything in CK for archmages yet.

Well, once i get to a good enough level, I'll try training there and see if it's any good or not. The way I see it is in about 10 seconds you could get ~15 ID'd, and then use blizzard to probably finish them off, but I don't know how well it would work.

[DrRusty]

Sure it would work, just like training anywhere can give you exp. Is it the best exp a mage can get? No. Getting hit by consant 3k+ damage and getting sealed isnt exactly going to speed up your training or help your pot costs. The more HP the monster has (for a lower lvl arch mage), the worste off a mage will be training there, due to how slow ultimates are. If you take 5+ hits to kill a gaurdian, then even though you're attackin the whole map it won't net you a good exp per hour. Newties or wyverns (for ice mages) are still the best exp for a mage spammin ultimates. Using demon to train for a mage is just slow..

[butterfλi]

If you're still 12x, you might find yourself more addicted to adding points to your ultimates then to the demons as you level.

I just don't see how running around the map to demon, then ultimate can be faster than standing in one place at newts/skeles. Even if the guardians are 6k exp, newties are 3.8k, they die faster, only hits you for 3k, (2k for the little onse) and they barely hit you whereas guardians would be constant 3.6k damage if you run through the mob trying to demon everything.

[EchoFaith]

Well, once i get to a good enough level, I'll try training there and see if it's any good or not. The way I see it is in about 10 seconds you could get ~15 ID'd, and then use blizzard to probably finish them off, but I don't know how well it would work.

unless you can somehow guarantee that the monsters you hit with blizzard are those same monsters that you hit with ice demon, it won't be very effective. i think that on average, only about half of the guardians that blizzard hits would actually take the full damage from it. the others will take the reduced damage due to their resistance.

[Cyanne]

Even if they weren't resistant, their ratios suck anyways. Newties are easily better. It's poison resistant, so mist wouldn't work.

[Spitzen]

Is noone at all even considering Big Bang? 6100exp a piece....srsly....
AND a guildy said they drop the Flamkeeper Cordon (L50 common glove, 8M.att 20acc clean) which im sure will sell for way more than pretty much anything newties can drop. The droprate will doubtless be miniscule but still...
Call em crazy but I intend to get 1 BB next lvl and at least try the place out b4 passing judgement. The map is teeny, duo-ing there i think should be considered. And competition for maps is sure to be non-existant.

[Hazzy]

Even if they weren't resistant, their ratios suck anyways. Newties are easily better. It's poison resistant, so mist wouldn't work.

Doesn't the HP per Experience ratio increase as they grow in level? :f6:

[xpimnoob]

the map is really ugly, allcures are annoying, the monsters are too friggin big and ugly, and it seems like you will die really fast since the space is really small and if you accidently blizz and pot too slow, you get bumped and die.

or spawned on top of since they are huge and the space is small. its like clausterphobic disaster.

[MonkyMagic]

Is noone at all even considering Big Bang? 6100exp a piece....srsly....
AND a guildy said they drop the Flamkeeper Cordon (L50 common glove, 8M.att 20acc clean) which im sure will sell for way more than pretty much anything newties can drop. The droprate will doubtless be miniscule but still...
Call em crazy but I intend to get 1 BB next lvl and at least try the place out b4 passing judgement. The map is teeny, duo-ing there i think should be considered. And competition for maps is sure to be non-existant.

Still the same problem, lots of touch damage, big bang is weak, depending on your level its like 10 - 15k damage at level 1, so its gonna take you 8 + hits with a charged big bang to to kill any.

[godofturtles]

Wow, you do realize that if you spam ultimates from the right side of map halfway up the stairs, you are 100% safe from all attacks?

[Cyanne]

Yeah, but you do 50% damage.

[Bribery]

Has anyone actually tried the old Demon + Summon + CL/Paralyze combo while training there instead of resorting to ultimates? Other classes get 7-10 mil exp/hour soloing there. I don't see why Mages can't move away from their ultimates and try their other training method. It could prove to be decent exp.

[EchoFaith]

Has anyone actually tried the old Demon + Summon + CL/Paralyze combo while training there instead of resorting to ultimates? Other classes get 7-10 mil exp/hour soloing there. I don't see why Mages can't move away from their ultimates and try their other training method. It could prove to be decent exp.

the problem is really that it has to be comparable to ultimate spamming in order to be considered decent by most mage standards. otherwise, most people wouldn't bother training for 'slow' exp.

[Almandaragal]

the problem is really that it has to be comparable to ultimate spamming in order to be considered decent by most mage standards. otherwise, most people wouldn't bother training for 'slow' exp.
That and the fact that you are 15x by the time you can have all three maxed. High level Demon is essential to efficient training here, more because of the number of targets and Damage over Time than anything. At the very least you'll want to be 140 with a build specifically designed for training with these skills. You'd have like, 1 ultimate, max demon, and then either high level Elquiness (sp?) for a F/P, or the option of CL or Ifrit for I/L. The F/P could go Paralyze, but I'm not sure how the damage works out. I should probably see if I can get my similarly leveled F/P friend to test it out with me there.

Either way, it's difficult to cater a build just for these, you'll need lots of all cures, and you definitely won't be truly effective until about 140+

A couple of friends of mine are trying it out though. A bowmaster and I/L Arch, both high 14x. They seemed to like the exp, though it might have worked better if there were three people: One for each side on the bottom, and one on the top. I didn't test it with them since I didn't have all cures on me, but it seems an interesting alternative, if not necessarily faster. I mean, didn't we start playing this game for fun anyway?

[Thomas]

Has anyone actually tried the old Demon + Summon + CL/Paralyze combo while training there instead of resorting to ultimates? Other classes get 7-10 mil exp/hour soloing there. I don't see why Mages can't move away from their ultimates and try their other training method. It could prove to be decent exp.

Other classes can get that exp/hour there because they are faster killers when it comes to 2-3 monsters at a time. The damage from ID/FD and Summons arent great espescially when compared to the ultimates. Also take in consideration that it only hits 6 monsters at max, which wont happen all the time. Ultimates hit 15 monsters in a huge range which will make Newties/Skeles better exp for them in pretty much all circumstances.

[Cyanne]

The problem with demon + summon is that they can't be frozen, and the initial hit of a demon takes the 50% cut.

The fact that they can't be frozen makes it even more expensive than ultimate training, which is much faster.

[Providence]

I suppose you could, but it's a heck of a long way to repot in NLC, even if you can skip VoH, return scroll to Haunted House or NLC, and go back again. (But skeles are no farther away, I suppose.)
Didn't Fiel just extract something about an NX item that lets you buy pots without leaving your map?

[Takebacker]

Didn't Fiel just extract something about an NX item that lets you buy pots without leaving your map?

I'm pretty sure that item takes you to a conventional shop, not any shop you want. (thus, none of your precious NLC pots) Not to mention that people aren't going to waste real money when they can easily do the trip for free...