Mejust
2010-02-02, 05:14 PM
Ended up writing this in a thread about the new steal on basil. Let's see if it survives the southperrian firing squad.
*this all ignores the stun (usefulness of stun is a whole other debate)
2nd job:
Steal is a mobbing skill that's only marginally stronger than SB. 520% versus 480%. The difference comes down to 1/12th of SB's total damage and 1/13th of Steal's damage.
Concerning early second job (30~48)
If you're ever gonna max Steal, you'll want to do that early cause else you'll find yourself maxing it near the end of 2nd job. But. Steal gets 520% at lvl 30 on 4 monsters. If double stab is still 140%, it outdamages on full mob at level 18. If it's 130%, this will be level 15. In comparison SB will outdamage DS 140% at level 9 and 130% at level 8. Combine this with the fact you'll need 5 Haste as prereq for Steal, you'll have to put in 20 to 23(level 37 or 39) SP in early 2nd job to start outdamaging DS while on a SB build you'd be doing that from level 33 on. To make matters worse for early Steal, it's a mob move. A mob move is a double edged sword if it's only a fraction stronger than your best 1v1 move on full mob and especially so when you don't even have that move yet. There's a trend in mob skills in that each of them is at least two times more powerful than the main 1v1 move on full mob. This actually makes mobbing skills useful on something other than max mob, which simply won't happen too often. You could then go rage and scream, or realize that in CPQ you'll simply never hit max mob if the other team isn't mass summoning (either you're getting owned bad or you're trading wins) and this trend unfortunately continues in CPQ2 and LMPQ.
All in all, Steal isn't a great choice for main attacking skill in early 2nd job. It takes VERY long to get good in comparison to SB (and if you follow any of my suggested builds; SB builds will also have some booster and mastery at that point), how good it is depends solely on how many monsters you hit and early 2nd job doesn't have a lot of 4 monster mobs, and finally it's only marginally stronger than SB when it DOES hit full mob. I say pass early 2nd build.
Concerning mid and late 2nd job (49~57)
If you're following an SB build like I implied is best before (and if you follow my build), you'll probably find yourself with 30 SB, 19 mastery and 6 Booster by level 48 and that is a solid base to start maxing less important skills. Obvious and standard choice is maxing Haste ASAP. The advantages of Haste are obvious, faster movement from monster to monster and it makes you more popular with parties. However you could decide to max Steal at that point. it'll take 9 full levels to get it up to the point where it outdamages SB, which would be level 57. At this point you'll have 18 or so levels to use it before BoT becomes better. Which isn't all that bad. But then again, you'll have to miss Haste for that same period of time. This can be partially solved by, say, getting Haste to 10 and then maxing Steal, but you'll have about 15 levels left to use Steal and level 10 Haste is nothing to write home about either. Of course, if you max Haste you'll have some spare points for other skills like Booster, any unfinished 1st job skills and endure.
If at all, the "best" period to max Steal is probably mid. However, you'll either have to endure missing haste completely till level 57 or will have to put up with 10 haste at the cost of decreasing the time Steal will be useful. You'll also spend 30 sp on a skill you use for 18 levels. And Steal STILL is a weak mobbing skill and only slightly stronger than SB. If you want to max Haste ASAP like most people do, or if you simply see no point in spending 30 sp on a skill you'll use for less than 20 levels, don't bother with maxing Steal in mid.
As a note, you could leave Sb at a lower level like lvl21 and start maxing Steal or Haste at like level 44-45, though you'll be weaker than the rest till 53-54 in case of 27 Steal, 57-58 in case of 10 haste + 27 Steal and 61-62 in case of max haste + 27 Steal. And you'll only gain 3 more levels of using Steal. And Steal STILL is a weak mobbing skill and only slightly stronger than SB.
Concerning late 2nd job (58-70)
You could always decide to max Steal after maxing Haste. By the time you have Steal up to the level it can actually outdamage SB (level 27), you'll be level 65. That leaves you with less than 10 levels for it to be actually worth using. And you'll have spent 30 sp, maxing a skill you'll use for 10 or less levels. I can safely say maxing Steal late 2nd job is a bad idea all around.
Concerning 3rd and 4th job(70+)
Once BoT becomes stronger than Steal, which is around lvl 74-76, Steal becomes useless. End of story. And so, Endure and maxed booster will rise in importance. Of course, the benefits they bring are small. But you don't want to train, having to activate Booster every minute. And within the same patch Endure will get a big boost, making its mp regen far more significant. Plus, endure is always on.
Conclusion
Only if you max it in mid 2nd job, Steal can be useful. However, its only slightly more powerful than SB, there aren't a lot of mobs of 4 or greater to make it even reach its potential damage and you'll have to leave a skill which will be better than Steal in 3rd job. I say pass.
*this all ignores the stun (usefulness of stun is a whole other debate)
2nd job:
Steal is a mobbing skill that's only marginally stronger than SB. 520% versus 480%. The difference comes down to 1/12th of SB's total damage and 1/13th of Steal's damage.
Concerning early second job (30~48)
If you're ever gonna max Steal, you'll want to do that early cause else you'll find yourself maxing it near the end of 2nd job. But. Steal gets 520% at lvl 30 on 4 monsters. If double stab is still 140%, it outdamages on full mob at level 18. If it's 130%, this will be level 15. In comparison SB will outdamage DS 140% at level 9 and 130% at level 8. Combine this with the fact you'll need 5 Haste as prereq for Steal, you'll have to put in 20 to 23(level 37 or 39) SP in early 2nd job to start outdamaging DS while on a SB build you'd be doing that from level 33 on. To make matters worse for early Steal, it's a mob move. A mob move is a double edged sword if it's only a fraction stronger than your best 1v1 move on full mob and especially so when you don't even have that move yet. There's a trend in mob skills in that each of them is at least two times more powerful than the main 1v1 move on full mob. This actually makes mobbing skills useful on something other than max mob, which simply won't happen too often. You could then go rage and scream, or realize that in CPQ you'll simply never hit max mob if the other team isn't mass summoning (either you're getting owned bad or you're trading wins) and this trend unfortunately continues in CPQ2 and LMPQ.
All in all, Steal isn't a great choice for main attacking skill in early 2nd job. It takes VERY long to get good in comparison to SB (and if you follow any of my suggested builds; SB builds will also have some booster and mastery at that point), how good it is depends solely on how many monsters you hit and early 2nd job doesn't have a lot of 4 monster mobs, and finally it's only marginally stronger than SB when it DOES hit full mob. I say pass early 2nd build.
Concerning mid and late 2nd job (49~57)
If you're following an SB build like I implied is best before (and if you follow my build), you'll probably find yourself with 30 SB, 19 mastery and 6 Booster by level 48 and that is a solid base to start maxing less important skills. Obvious and standard choice is maxing Haste ASAP. The advantages of Haste are obvious, faster movement from monster to monster and it makes you more popular with parties. However you could decide to max Steal at that point. it'll take 9 full levels to get it up to the point where it outdamages SB, which would be level 57. At this point you'll have 18 or so levels to use it before BoT becomes better. Which isn't all that bad. But then again, you'll have to miss Haste for that same period of time. This can be partially solved by, say, getting Haste to 10 and then maxing Steal, but you'll have about 15 levels left to use Steal and level 10 Haste is nothing to write home about either. Of course, if you max Haste you'll have some spare points for other skills like Booster, any unfinished 1st job skills and endure.
If at all, the "best" period to max Steal is probably mid. However, you'll either have to endure missing haste completely till level 57 or will have to put up with 10 haste at the cost of decreasing the time Steal will be useful. You'll also spend 30 sp on a skill you use for 18 levels. And Steal STILL is a weak mobbing skill and only slightly stronger than SB. If you want to max Haste ASAP like most people do, or if you simply see no point in spending 30 sp on a skill you'll use for less than 20 levels, don't bother with maxing Steal in mid.
As a note, you could leave Sb at a lower level like lvl21 and start maxing Steal or Haste at like level 44-45, though you'll be weaker than the rest till 53-54 in case of 27 Steal, 57-58 in case of 10 haste + 27 Steal and 61-62 in case of max haste + 27 Steal. And you'll only gain 3 more levels of using Steal. And Steal STILL is a weak mobbing skill and only slightly stronger than SB.
Concerning late 2nd job (58-70)
You could always decide to max Steal after maxing Haste. By the time you have Steal up to the level it can actually outdamage SB (level 27), you'll be level 65. That leaves you with less than 10 levels for it to be actually worth using. And you'll have spent 30 sp, maxing a skill you'll use for 10 or less levels. I can safely say maxing Steal late 2nd job is a bad idea all around.
Concerning 3rd and 4th job(70+)
Once BoT becomes stronger than Steal, which is around lvl 74-76, Steal becomes useless. End of story. And so, Endure and maxed booster will rise in importance. Of course, the benefits they bring are small. But you don't want to train, having to activate Booster every minute. And within the same patch Endure will get a big boost, making its mp regen far more significant. Plus, endure is always on.
Conclusion
Only if you max it in mid 2nd job, Steal can be useful. However, its only slightly more powerful than SB, there aren't a lot of mobs of 4 or greater to make it even reach its potential damage and you'll have to leave a skill which will be better than Steal in 3rd job. I say pass.