My "friend" and I were Arguing over this

[Slashermills2]

A DEXLESS THIEF VS a DEXLESS THief with DEX EQUIPS

Can someone help me figure out the exact calculations?
We'll say
They have enough Dex in equips to equip a Scarab
which is 25 base dex + 85 in equips
Lets assume they both have nearly identical equips
4 attack Pac
2 Attack Face Stompers
lets say the Dexless LUCK (Skanda user) has + 85 Luck in equips
Wouldn't the Dexless Skanda user be more powerful if everything they had was the same stats?

Also How much MORE attack would a Dexless Scarab user NEED to have in order to be more powerful than a Skanda user?

[Devil]

A DEXLESS THIEF VS a DEXLESS THief with DEX EQUIPS

Can someone help me figure out the exact calculations?
We'll say
They have enough Dex in equips to equip a Scarab
which is 25 base dex + 85 in equips
Lets assume they both have nearly identical equips
4 attack Pac
2 Attack Face Stompers
lets say the Dexless LUCK (Skanda user) has + 85 Luck in equips
Wouldn't the Dexless Skanda user be more powerful if everything they had was the same stats?

Also How much MORE attack would a Dexless Scarab user NEED to have in order to be more powerful than a Skanda user?
Just a few points:
1. The Skanda user is dexLESS
2. The Scarab user is LOWdex since he wears dex equips to wear the Scarab
3. With all the talking about dexless / lowdex / normaldex it is ALWAYS about TOTAL LUK and Weapon attack, when you talk about throwing stars.

And if the Skanda user has 85 more luk then the lowdex Scarab user, he would need 85/5 = 17, ah well, lets say 15 weapon attack more then the Skanda user, which will never happen.

That's why dexless Skanda users always win... (yay for $$$ for Nexon for AP resets....)

[NoWaizMatt]

Besides, given that they are oh, level 80, the stats would amost be impossible to get.

Let's say

25 dex Sauna
2 att 8 dex FS
12 dex earrings
4 att 10 dex PAC
25 dex Zhelm
10 dex Face
10 dex Eye

These equips would cost well over 1.5b I'd assume in total.

Now, for the Luk.

10 luk from the Skanda
10 luk Earrings
4 att 10 luk PAC
25 luk Sauna
15 luk Zhelm

And now we're screwed. There is nearly no other item in maplestory that would add the extra 30 luk, unless of course you had over max mesos and would by a 50 luk Sauna, which 1. Pretty much nobody has, and 2. If someone did have it, it'd be worth around 6b.

So in all, 85 luk at that level for a hermit isn't exactly possible.

[Pikachu]

REGARDLESS Skanda user will be more powerful... which pisses me off.

[Slashermills2]

He argued with me about it for 30 minutes trying to tell me how he was right and I was wrong
I know a Luck Dexless wins vs a Dex Dexless but he wouldn't listen
Also you are right NoWaizMatt it would be hard to get an equal amount but it would make a FAIR comparison to how much stronger a Skanda Dexless is compared to a Scarab Dexless

My friend "tested" this on a few Private servers <_<
Do private servers have some kind of L7 fuck up?
Because I'd assume that for a Low Dex with a 53 scarab to be better than a dexless with a 53 Skanda there would have to be some fuck up in the L7 Formula..

[★tastie]

He argued with me about it for 30 minutes trying to tell me how he was right and I was wrong
I know a Luck Dexless wins vs a Dex Dexless but he wouldn't listen
Also you are right NoWaizMatt it would be hard to get an equal amount but it would make a FAIR comparison to how much stronger a Skanda Dexless is compared to a Scarab Dexless

My friend "tested" this on a few Private servers <_<
Do private servers have some kind of L7 pineapple up?
Because I'd assume that for a Low Dex with a 53 scarab to be better than a dexless with a 53 Skanda there would have to be some pineapple up in the L7 Formula..

wtf is a dex dexless? a scarab user with 25 dex is called LOW DEX.

use common sense. if a scarab and a skanda have the same attack, and the skanda user gets luk bonus while scarab users get dex bonus.... OBVIOUSLY the skanda user is stronger because they have MORE LUK.

speaking in terms of a 25 base dex scarab user might falsely show that dexless is stronger than low dex. it really depends upon TOTAL weapon attack and luk bonus.

[Silver_ice]

in the end. there are too many dex equips to say skandas are better

look at the 88 atk or so dragon sleeve
and a low dex(25 base) 19x nl can wear it

so wats worth more
a 60 atk skanda or a 88 atk sleeve

low dex>dexless>high dex

simple enough?

[DrTriixx]

a scarab is a 2-3 avrg base w.atk higher than a skanda. so the scarab user would have to get 85dex minus the 3 w.atk advantage from equips which can get dex but not luk in order to match a skanda user.

with earring luk scrolls out the only equips a skanda user can't take full advantage of are shoes, zhelm, HT pendant and face accessories, considering the 2 are beyond godly the difference would look like this

helm (35 possible) + pendant (22 possible) + shoes (15 possible) + face (10 possible) = 82 dex

if the scarab user gets 3 dex from something such as scrolling first slot on earrings for dex, everything else could be luk equips which would make the scarab user stronger.
but thats not realistic, realistically average people would have something like this
helm-25 pendant-2 shoes-6 face - 5 = 38 dex so he'd have to get the rest of his dex from other equips

which would make skanda better for the average person but giving a scarab user higher potential. at least until much higher lvls where like 10 luk = 1 w.atk but my hermit is only 85 so i cant tell you what lvl that is, but i know its pretty high O.o

[Kawasari Mimoto]

I've said this before, and I'll dare say it again.


"A single point in weapon attack > a couple points into LUK."

Because if you think about it, people make DEXless Hermits because 4-5 pts of LUK = WA (this depends on your total WA / LUK, and then having to use the formula to figure it out). However, in the long run, it expands as you get stronger, depending on how much total WA / LUK you have, so then it becomes 5-6 LUK = 1 WA, and so far.

So, I ask you, does DEXless still beat low-DEX Craven / Sleeve user?

Of course, keeping in mind that the new Raven claws are soon to be released, we'll see how far a DEXless can go.. I assure you, people are most likely gonna have a problem mass-scrolling them too.

-Lord of the Night Sky

[ZooK]

25 base with scarab = dexless imo :f6:


HI KHOI LOl

[wobbufet]

If you can afford these kinds of dex equips you shouldnt be wearing a 53 scarab@@@@

[DrTriixx]

If you can afford these kinds of dex equips you shouldnt be wearing a 53 scarab@@@@

uh, that doesn't really matter when comparing the 2 O.o

[Firefux]

I've said this before, and I'll dare say it again.



Because if you think about it, people make DEXless Hermits because 4-5 pts of LUK = WA (this depends on your total WA / LUK, and then having to use the formula to figure it out). However, in the long run, it expands as you get stronger, depending on how much total WA / LUK you have, so then it becomes 5-6 LUK = 1 WA, and so far.

So, I ask you, does DEXless still beat low-DEX Craven / Sleeve user?

Of course, keeping in mind that the new Raven claws are soon to be released, we'll see how far a DEXless can go.. I assure you, people are most likely gonna have a problem mass-scrolling them too.

-Lord of the Night Sky

Don't forget to factor in that dexless claws are faster, thus more attacks for the dexless user.

So, Lowdex might be doing more damage in numbers, but dexless could also be doing more damage over time in the same instance lol.

[FantaTwist]

Dexless lose too much on dex bonus stats from equips such as zakum helmet, horntail pendant (+1) and shoes. As for us low dex Night Lords out there we for sure have more stats in our top and bottoms, horntail pendant, zakum helmet (scrolled) and shoes too. All this added up dex can bring us down to 25 dex BASE (Yes this is possible, i've seen it happen with a caster user) which makes us sitting in the same boat as DEXless night lords but one thing that's different is that we'll be having a higher level base claw which means more attack resulting this round goes to low dex by far.

[jikos]

its very possible to equip a scarab while using ALL luk equips that a skanda user uses. i myself am close to doing it i just need the ht pendant >.>
29dex zhelm
7dex facestompers
8dex rat face
14dex 2 luk pants
2 dex 20luk top
22dex horntail pendant (egged)

as you can see... that leaves me with being able to equip a scarab with 28base dex while still being able to have a luk cape, luk earrings, and a top+bottom that gives me 22luk. and theres still plenty of room for improvement. its not to hard to scroll a 31dex zhelm (if i have the balls to drop my current zhelm lol) and an 8dex facestompers isnt to hard to come across.

so after that being said, you decide which is better.

[DrTriixx]

what it really comes down to though is whether or not you can get a horntail pendant because without it you would need to find 25 more dex (in jikos situation) to be able to equip the scarab keeping a 25 base dex. so with a HT pendant, yes dexless scarab user is stronger BUT considering how much HT pendants cost and assuming both have the same funding, a skanda user could easily upgrade his claw maybe 4-5 w.atk higher depending on what his previous skanda was.
oh, and a skanda user would be able to get a pretty good luk sauna with the amount it would cost for your top and bottom, so you would lose out in luk there. but straight up im kynda biased and not that dope a hermit so i could be wrong O.o
so like i said before, in my opinion, low dex has more potential than dexless but i see dexless as being a stronger choice on average >.<

[Management]

Don't forget to factor in that dexless claws are faster, thus more attacks for the dexless user.

So, Lowdex might be doing more damage in numbers, but dexless could also be doing more damage over time in the same instance lol.

Don't forget that they attack the same amount of times in any given period of time, despite the weapon speed.

[Corn]

This thread is completely useless now with the level 90 dexless claw out. Resume when dexed claws reach level 140 please =D.

[Hazzy]

When did LowDex go from having a low base Dex to using Dex Gear to wear stuff? :f6:

[Dusk]

The Skanda user would always win because you're comparing it to a Scarab, which is only barely more powerful than a Skanda and has a much higher dex requirement. Compare it to a Sleve and see who would win.

[Corn]

The Skanda user would always win because you're comparing it to a Scarab, which is only barely more powerful than a Skanda and has a much higher dex requirement. Compare it to a Sleve and see who would win.

Compare that to the level 90 dexless claw.

[EndlessAxis]

i'll say it once and i'll say it again! ALL THESE COMPARRISONS ARE BULL! a 55 atk Skanda ( broa prices ) is 600m tops! and 60 atk Craven is 700m OKAY! money wise the DEXLESS will always win and I mean dexless who uses a skanda/raven/shinobi

my friend's 59atk 1 slot shinobi/skanda ( not sure witch he has ) costs around 3-4b, whilst pulling off the same amount of 30%'s on a lvl 100 claw would cost you an arm and a leg, clean skanda..4m for avg...clean craven....55m avg...clean sleeve..300m avg..! see where I'm going with this...my 15 dex earings are 3b,15 luk ones are 1.5....its always gonna be easier to make the less class stronger...not to mention CHEAPER!...and if someone says that these equips are for the sake of argument then you full of it...if you wanna truely make it equal..factor in the prices of said 25 base dex rab user...and then see what kinda equips you could get a dexless..okay...oki thats my point of view

[jikos]

i'll say it once and i'll say it again! ALL THESE COMPARRISONS ARE BULL! a 55 atk Skanda ( broa prices ) is 600m tops! and 60 atk Craven is 700m OKAY! money wise the DEXLESS will always win and I mean dexless who uses a skanda/raven/shinobi

my friend's 59atk 1 slot shinobi/skanda ( not sure witch he has ) costs around 3-4b, whilst pulling off the same amount of 30%'s on a lvl 100 claw would cost you an arm and a leg, clean skanda..4m for avg...clean craven....55m avg...clean sleeve..300m avg..! see where I'm going with this...my 15 dex earings are 3b,15 luk ones are 1.5....its always gonna be easier to make the less class stronger...not to mention CHEAPER!...and if someone says that these equips are for the sake of argument then you full of it...if you wanna truely make it equal..factor in the prices of said 25 base dex rab user...and then see what kinda equips you could get a dexless..okay...oki thats my point of view

i dont know which version of ms you play but in bellocan, which im sure is one of the poorer servers, there are people willing to pay over 1,5bil for a 55att skanda. And where the hell did you get 3bil for 15dex earrings vs 1,5 for 15luk earrings from? dont just pull numbers out your ass, do some research before you post something.

[EndlessAxis]

I've been a merchant in broa since the FM existed, and I HAVE 15dex earings with a 3b offer, and i've seen two 15 LUK earings for 1.5 and 1.35b

and in BROA a 55 skanda is 600m ish Alright!

[Kawasari Mimoto]

Don't forget to factor in that dexless claws are faster, thus more attacks for the dexless user.

So, Lowdex might be doing more damage in numbers, but dexless could also be doing more damage over time in the same instance lol.


Not necessarily, Faster and Fast weapon speed, for claws, makes absolutely 0% difference. =/ If you compared it as Warrior equipments (such as Polearms, Spears, etc), it's different because their speed-values changes. But for Claws, the speed value for Fast and Faster are almost similar, if not, the same, so there'd be no point in comparing speed-factor.

Another thing about DEXless is that, iirc, L7 isn't affected by DEX by any means. However, Avenger is affected by DEX (and Mastery). Correct me if I am wrong, but I overheard several Hermit/NL players that can probably confirm this. >_> Avenger = more stable with more DEX (and mastery), the opposite is also true.

PS: HI SZOOKIES <3. Lawl.