How to: Fight Pink Bean (phase 6) without HP washing!

[MysticHLE]

Well, after the speculations and doubts on my claims in the other thread, I decided to just take some time and compile this for everyone...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWT8Rx9M0aQ

Please note a few things...if you cannot read the chat in the game:

1. This was done on a private server, so PB attacks constantly and does not move the entire battle. Damage reflect and Zombify effects have not been implemented correctly on this PS. However, all other aspects are consistent.

2. There will be a follow up video shortly on the different effects of elemental attacks of a Paladin as well. This is a contrasting evidence to Fiel's modded snail.

Nightlords and BM strategies are shown in the first video. Skip to about 2:13 right away if you cannot read the captions.

It is imperative that Warriors/Bucs keep PB cornered consistently so that the middle beam effect of PB's Genesis will trigger on the small platform.
I do realize that this strategy has no room for errors for NLs/BMs/Corsairs. But I believe this is Nexon's intention in design...a boss that requires perfection of gameplay and coordination and teamwork, with careful consideration of power balance among all classes for phases 1-6 - a true near/end-game boss.

Feel free to post any other questions, comments, or discussions! =D

EDIT: This is the follow up video on the elemental/physical resistance effects...if someone can video-fy that too...or tell me now? o.O

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMtXehlJyBY

[Rob]

WWT8Rx9M0aQ

Videofied. Edit the OP.

[昇平森膣]

The only problem is, it's not even close to that easy. If you're going to take Buccaneers on the run, they're going to have to be HP washed like crazy if they're going to be constantly cornering Pink Bean. If they get hit, they'll be taking 25k touch damage.

I'm sure you could attack farther away as a ranged class, too.

Also, once damage reflect is casted, what happens next? The warriors can't corner Pink Bean anymore because they'd die if they tried and Pink Bean will be running rampid and the ranged classes will be big, wide-open targets for Pink Bean to smash.


Edit : Oh! And don't forget the 60 minute limit that you have, so every person attacking is vital to the run.

[MysticHLE]

The only problem is, it's not even close to that easy. If you're going to take Buccaneers on the run, they're going to have to be HP washed like crazy if they're going to be constantly cornering Pink Bean. If they get hit, they'll be taking 25k touch damage.

I'm sure you could attack farther away as a ranged class, too.

Also, once damage reflect is casted, what happens next? The warriors can't corner Pink Bean anymore because they'd die if they tried and Pink Bean will be running rampid and the ranged classes will be big, wide-open targets for Pink Bean to smash.

Corkscrew blow does give the Buc some invincible time. And yeah, 1 hit KO - just like ranged. A perfect game-played battle is what is required. Some skills for a change, and not just pots and damage, eh? New concept in GMS?

Damage reflect supposedly goes up to 15k or so. Any 180+ warrior with HB would be able to handle that. 1 damage reflect per rush + pot. =)

The point is...if done right, even warriors and Bucs don't have to take a physical hit from PB.

And believe it or not, that is about as far as where ranged can stand to hit PB still. BM has slightly more range than NLs, if you didn't know that (that's why BMs don't need to jump off to hit top Gargoyle at GPQ, but NLs do)

In regards to your edit on the 60 minutes time limit...this video is only to address the possibility of fighting Pink Bean without the need to HP wash - like everyone has been claiming for the past God knows how many months now since PB's release. Also, I have heard (not sure which or where) that KMS or another version's time limit has been upped to 2 hours.

[Takebacker]

I don't see how damage reflect makes warriors useless. Any warrior on a PB run should easily be able to take 15k damage.

[昇平森膣]

The problem for Buccaneers is that they have to run back away from Pink Bean in order to use Corkscrew again. During that time, they're vulnerable to attacks. It only takes a milisecond of vulnerability to end it for a Buccaneer at that point.



I don't see how damage reflect makes warriors useless. Any warrior on a PB run should easily be able to take 15k damage.


15k damage? Are you sure it's a constant 15k damage for Pink Bean's damage reflect?

[Takebacker]

15k damage? Are you sure it's a constant 15k damage for Pink Bean's damage reflect?

It doesn't go any higher than 15k.

[昇平森膣]

It doesn't go any higher than 15k.

I've seen Lilynouche's damage reflect do 20k to my friend the first time I went up against it. Was it changed?

[MysticHLE]

The problem for Buccaneers is that they have to run back away from Pink Bean in order to use Corkscrew again. During that time, they're vulnerable to attacks. It only takes a milisecond of vulnerability to end it for a Buccaneer at that point.





15k damage? Are you sure it's a constant 15k damage for Pink Bean's damage reflect?

Yeah...vulnerable to attacks...that do what, 18k max? You're telling me a normal Buc who gains 50 HP per level up + HP from medals/Mark of Naricains and whatnot and gets HB at level 200 can't handle 18k damage? o_O

Also, a Buc can stay in almost constant invincible frames if they combine their combo attacks correctly. It just takes more skills and perfect timing.

[昇平森膣]

Yeah...vulnerable to attacks...that do what, 18k max? You're telling me a normal Buc who gains 50 HP per level up + HP from medals/Mark of Naricains and whatnot and gets HB at level 200 can't handle 18k damage? o_O

A non-HP washed level 180 Buccaneer would only have around 9.5k ~ 10k HP max. That's not enough with HB to survive 18k+ damage.

[Takebacker]

I've seen Lilynouche's damage reflect do 20k to my friend the first time I went up against it. Was it changed?

Lily always reflected, i dunno, 2.5k? I haven't fought lily in forever and all i know is the damage reflect is lower than her ice impale attack which hits 4.4kish.

[MysticHLE]

A non-HP washed level 180 Buccaneer would only have around 9.5k ~ 10k HP max. That's not enough with HB to survive 18k+ damage.

If a BM/NL have enough time to FJ/run away, a Buc has enough time to time a CB/Barrage properly...

Do I have to make a video for every pineappleing class? :f7:

And I've killed Lily countless times and have never received more than 5k damage. :f6:

[Nesso]

So duck with genesis, move when BB? Not good news for corsairs but it's still impressive.

[昇平森膣]

If a BM/NL have enough time to FJ/run away, a Buc has enough time to time a CB/Barrage properly...

Do I have to make a video for every pineappleing class? -.-

Go ahead.


If a Buccaneer used Barrage, they'll be wide open to attacks even faster, since Barrage doesn't have invincibility frames past its own frames. There's nothing a Buccaneer can do for invincibility frames that's better than constant Corkscrew Punch.

[Takebacker]

If a BM/NL have enough time to FJ/run away, a Buc has enough time to time a CB/Barrage properly...

Do I have to make a video for every pineappleing class? :f7:

I hope you know that CSBing + barrage does not make buccs 100% invincible.

@ the HP thing: An unwashed lv 200 should have 11-12k.

[Dusk]

I've seen Lilynouche's damage reflect do 20k to my friend the first time I went up against it. Was it changed?

Different damage reflects do different things. Lilynouch's damage reflect doesn't hit up to 20k, though. Pics or it didn't happen.

Damage reflect should probably be handled the same way Balrog's DR is handled. PB is doable in theory, but there's so little room for error without massive HP washing. Getting 30 people to be able to play like that consistently for 15+ minutes is pretty much impossible.


So duck with genesis, move when BB? Not good news for corsairs but it's still impressive.

We have Recoil Shot o_o

[MysticHLE]

I hope you know that CSBing + barrage does not make buccs 100% invincible.

@ the HP thing: An unwashed lv 200 should have 11-12k.

The only time they NEED to be invincible is during BB, which has quite a long animation. Just different challenges at playing different classes.


So duck with genesis, move when BB? Not good news for corsairs but it's still impressive.

I actually made a video for Corsair... xD

The only downside about them is that there's not much they can do while in Battleship...but in normal mode, they do have Recoil shot and the speed to dodge fast enough.



Damage reflect should probably be handled the same way Balrog's DR is handled. PB is doable in theory, but there's so little room for error without massive HP washing. Getting 30 people to be able to play like that consistently for 15+ minutes is pretty much impossible.


If they have bosses the require perfect gameplay in a coordinated party in RO, WOW, and whatever other games...and those bosses have been defeated...then MapleStory can too - just gotta up everyone's gameplay abilities. :f2:

[昇平森膣]

just gotta up everyone's gameplay abilities

That's like asking everyone on the internet to be literate --- the chances of it happening is slim to none. There's always going to be at least one person who fucks up and fools around like a complete idiot.

[MysticHLE]

That's like asking everyone on the internet to be literate --- the chances of it happening is slim to none. There's always going to be at least one person who pineapples up and fools around like a complete idiot.

Well, I guess we just don't bring that person then? :f6:

There are plenty of level 200s around now, I'm sure you can get a batch of skilled and hardcore 30 together somehow. :f3:

Come on, give people more credit here!

[Takebacker]

The only time they NEED to be invincible is during BB, which has quite a long animation. Just different challenges at playing different classes.

The fact that they are in the general vicinity of PB means they have a ridiculously large chance to take a body hit. If i'm fighting PB, i probably won't even care about BB. I'll be worrying about landing on PB at the end of a barrage, take his touch damage, and die.

[FrozNlite]

This video does an excellent job of showing why Paladins and I/L AMs are imperative for Lightning damage, but what about LOLFPs? If I recall correctly Fiel had said, in his P. Resist thread, that Paralyze, along with those Lightning-based skills, is also an effective and unrestrained DPS skill for phase 6. Is this correct, and can you test it with a LOLFP at PB?

Or better yet, can any LOLFPs who have made it to phase 6 confirm this (coughMagicianmtcough)?

[KaidaTan]

I actually made a video for Corsair... xD

The only downside about them is that there's not much they can do while in Battleship...but in normal mode, they do have Recoil shot and the speed to dodge fast enough.
I don't suppose you could test whether you can duck under the beams in the ship or not for me. I'd like to know this but I don't want to waste my groups time dying trying to figure it out.

Also, having Pink Been face left is not a great idea. In addition to asking 20 or so ranged people to play perfectly, they'll have to do it while there's a ton more skill effects hitting PB that you don't quite show there. And, if he's cornered, you'll also have the warriors standing right in front of him using their big flashy skills which would further reduce your ability to notice Big Bang in time.

The best place we have agreed to put PB is right next to the corner, with just enough room on the right for the warriors to stand there and draw aggro. That way, you don't have to worry about BB. Still, PBs damage reflect can do 5000-15000 damage. I don't know if you've ever tried to not get hit by Lilynouch's damage reflect based on pure reflexes, but it's pretty much impossible. Not to mention the animation for that skill appears right where the numbers are covering, so good luck noticing that.

[MysticHLE]

This video does an excellent job of showing why Paladins and I/L AMs are imperative for Lightning damage, but what about LOLFPs? If I recall correctly Fiel had said, in his P. Resist thread, that Paralyze, along with those Lightning-based skills, is also an effective and unrestrained DPS skill for phase 6. Is this correct, and can you test it with a LOLFP at PB?

Or better yet, can any LOLFPs who have made it to phase 6 confirm this (coughMagicianmtcough)?

Good news for you!

Tested with 1999 magic...
I/L AM's CL does around 57k each strike with Ele Wand 7.
F/P AM's Para does 65k each strike with Ele Wand 5.

=)


I don't suppose you could test whether you can duck under the beams in the ship or not for me. I'd like to know this but I don't want to waste my groups time dying trying to figure it out.

Also, having Pink Been face left is not a great idea. In addition to asking 20 or so ranged people to play perfectly, they'll have to do it while there's a ton more skill effects hitting PB that you don't quite show there. And, if he's cornered, you'll also have the warriors standing right in front of him using their big flashy skills which would further reduce your ability to notice Big Bang in time.

The best place we have agreed to put PB is right next to the corner, with just enough room on the right for the warriors to stand there and draw aggro. That way, you don't have to worry about BB. Still, PBs damage reflect can do 5000-15000 damage. I don't know if you've ever tried to not get hit by Lilynouch's damage reflect based on pure reflexes, but it's pretty much impossible. Not to mention the animation for that skill appears right where the numbers are covering, so good luck noticing that.

The potions are for damage reflect, not reflexes to dodge it. o_o

Whenever I boss, I watch the boss's body animation, not just what's on their heads. Damage appear above the boss's head anyway, so just about every attack can be distinguished. I don't have a problem noticing stuff at Zak or HT...I always play stun games with my runners lol o_O

About Corsairs...I tried, unfortunatley, I cannot even duck while on Battleship. So it's either when your Battleship breaks, or you just switch to regular form right away and duck? o.O

[Tikey]

This video does an excellent job of showing why Paladins and I/L AMs are imperative for Lightning damage, but what about LOLFPs? If I recall correctly Fiel had said, in his P. Resist thread, that Paralyze, along with those Lightning-based skills, is also an effective and unrestrained DPS skill for phase 6. Is this correct, and can you test it with a LOLFP at PB?

Or better yet, can any LOLFPs who have made it to phase 6 confirm this (coughMagicianmtcough)?

IIRC, Ariel is resistant to Lightning while nothing is resistant/immune to Poison.


Good news for you!

Tested with 1999 magic...
I/L AM's CL does around 57k each strike with Ele Wand 7.
F/P AM's Para does 65k each strike with Ele Wand 5.



Why would you use Wand 5 for a poison skill and Wand 7 for a lightning skill? >.>

[MysticHLE]

IIRC, Ariel is resistant to Lightning while nothing is resistant/immune to Poison.



Why would you use Wand 5 for a poison skill and Wand 7 for a lightning skill? >.>

Because my main concern was to compare the damages of CL vs. Para (to know whether or not poison was affected), and not the max damage for each. Besides, an F/P or I/L would most likely have a wand 5 or 7 during the fight since Mini Beans (10 at a time) are WEAK to both ice (7) and fire (5), and have 303k HP. Wands 5 and 7 both give the same % boost to the secondary elements, so I thought I would just test the respective differences.

[KaidaTan]

The potions are for damage reflect, not reflexes to dodge it. o_o
What are you talking about? What potions?


About Corsairs...I tried, unfortunatley, I cannot even duck while on Battleship. So it's either when your Battleship breaks, or you just switch to regular form right away and duck? o.O
Sorry, I should have explained it better. If you press down while you're on your ship, your hitbox actually does lower quite a bit. Not as much as people who don't have boats when they duck, but definitely pretty low, even though it doesn't look like it changes at all. I just want to know if when you hold down while on your ship under a gen beam, will it hit you?

[IllegallySane]

So far I can see the Genesis is avoidable, but good luck telling the party when Big Bang appears or when damage reflect pops up with all those numbers covering Pink Bean. :f4:

[Lozmaster]

just gotta up everyone's gameplay abilities.


This still makes for a terrible game design, even if it is in theory survivable, there are VERY good reasons that old games like megaman don't expect you to fight a boss for any serious amount of time, 10 minutes is far over the top. Without lag. On your own, not relying on 29 other people to play a perfect game too.

[MysticHLE]

What are you talking about? What potions?


Sorry, I should have explained it better. If you press down while you're on your ship, your hitbox actually does lower quite a bit. Not as much as people who don't have boats when they duck, but definitely pretty low, even though it doesn't look like it changes at all. I just want to know if when you hold down while on your ship under a gen beam, will it hit you?

I mean you can use potions on 15k damage reflects as warriors since they can survive those (autopotion will make things even easier).

O_o Tested for you just now...it does work if you duck. Gen doesn't hit battleship...=O

But now I'm reconsidering...what if we just push PB to the left corner, and dodge BB same way on the left side as we would the right? Don't even have Gen to worry about, and platforms still protect against Seduce (although if you ARE seduced, it's a bye bye hug with PB lol) . Though...the problem I noticed immediately was the forgotten temple keeper NPC in PB's way...and possibly other damages and skills being spammed on PB. It will indeed make Gen even harder to notice than if PB were on the right side....I guess it's what everyone else would be capable of dealing with...>.> Paying attention to a little 60x60 box of pixels for PB's animations...or a box of 100x100. >_>; It's probably easier keeping PB cornered on the right...and maybe at BEST, him pinned and KBed at an exact point from the right so that he faces right and the ranged attack on the left...but it's rather unlikely, maybe even more so than finding a group of coordinated 30 people. o.O

[KaidaTan]

I mean you can use potions on 15k damage reflects as warriors since they can survive those.

O_o it does work if you duck. Gen doesn't hit battleship...=O
Oh. Well I was talking about the ranged classes. 5k-15k isn't something they can live through. The warriors are fine.

And Yay~


But now I'm reconsidering...what if we just push PB to the left corner, and dodge BB same way on the left side as we would the right? Don't even have Gen to worry about, and platforms still protect against Seduce. The problem I noticed immediately was the forgotten temple keeper NPC in PB's way...and possibly other damages and skills being spammed on PB. It will indeed make Gen even harder to notice than if PB were on the right side....I guess it's what everyone else would be capable of dealing with...>.> Paying attention to a little 60x60 box of pixels for PB's animations...or a box of 100x100. >_>;
The Wheel of Destiny respawns you at the left side of the map. So if anyone *does* make a mistake, they can wheel back to the map safely if PB is on the right. Pretty dangerous if he's on the left. Also, seduce makes you jump-left. So if anyone gets seduced, they're dead for sure.

[MysticHLE]

Oh. Well I was talking about the ranged classes. 5k-15k isn't something they can live through. The warriors are fine.

And Yay~


The Wheel of Destiny respawns you at the left side of the map. So if anyone *does* make a mistake, they can wheel back to the map safely if PB is on the right. Pretty dangerous if he's on the left. Also, seduce makes you jump-left. So if anyone gets seduced, they're dead for sure.

Yeah...I ninjaed you there on my edit. :shine:

I'm not saying this is THE way to defeat Pink Bean, but it definitely is a way for non-HP washed chars to consider in terms of fighting him...hoping to give some more insights into ideas and strategy that would ultimately lead to a real PB victory. xD

[Dual]

This video does an excellent job of showing why Paladins and I/L AMs are imperative for Lightning damage, but what about LOLFPs? If I recall correctly Fiel had said, in his P. Resist thread, that Paralyze, along with those Lightning-based skills, is also an effective and unrestrained DPS skill for phase 6. Is this correct, and can you test it with a LOLFP at PB?

Or better yet, can any LOLFPs who have made it to phase 6 confirm this (coughMagicianmtcough)?

No. We're not important. Our charges make our attacks lightning and neutral at the same time. So we're doing 35% normal damage compared to everyone's 50%. :f3:

[MysticHLE]

No. We're not important. Our charges make our attacks lightning and neutral at the same time. So we're doing 35% normal damage compared to everyone's 50%. :f3:

Please go watch my second video in the first post.

Although, after some further testing, it actually seems like even with Lightning not being halved, Heros are STILL a tad stronger due to their raw multiplier.

I did that test by using only maxed AC + Brandish vs. Thunder + Blast.

Brandish was doing about 50-80k max per hit without thunder imbued (so a total of like 100-160k max), while thunder Blast did roughly 70-130k each hit..but not quite as low as 35% relative. o_O

:f7: lolPaladins...

[Beaner]

Whenever I boss, I watch the boss's body animation, not just what's on their heads. Damage appear above the boss's head anyway, so just about every attack can be distinguished. I don't have a problem noticing stuff at Zak or HT...I always play stun games with my runners lol o_O



last time i went to PB i couldnt even see the pink bloob much less his animations. its small and 30 ppl are wacking it, not as easy as you put it.

[Lan]

I registered to ask this question:



But now I'm reconsidering...what if we just push PB to the left corner, and dodge BB same way on the left side as we would the right? Don't even have Gen to worry about, and platforms still protect against Seduce (although if you ARE seduced, it's a bye bye hug with PB lol).

When I asked TMS forumers about their stradegy to fight PB, they told me if PB is pinned to the left and no one stands at its left side, it won't cast Seduce. Can you check if this is the same in GMS?

Several servers in TMS have done this already, so wheeling back isn't a problem. The problem is this method requires everyone to tank Big Bang's damage, and not everyone have that kind of HP or reflexes.

[MysticHLE]

I registered to ask this question:




When I asked TMS forumers about their stradegy to fight PB, they told me if PB is pinned to the left and no one stands at its right side, it won't cast Seduce. Can you check if this is the same in GMS?

Several servers in TMS have done this already, so wheeling back isn't a problem. The problem is this method requires everyone to tank Big Bang's damage, and not everyone have that kind of HP or reflexes.

I don't see how you're going to pin it to the left without being on the right. O_O

And a little complication in this actually for my testing...because PB always faces one direction no matter what (because he won't stop attacking once he's summoned), I can't really change which way he faces in a battle without killing him. XD It'll seem like he changes directions, but he actually doesn't. For example, his Big Bang attack animation will face the right if I stand on his right...but if I summon him from the left, he will still use Big Bang...except it won't hit me if I'm standing on the right. lol

[Lan]

I don't see how you're going to pin it to the left without being on the right. O_O

And a little complication in this actually for my testing...because PB always faces one direction no matter what (because he won't stop attacking once he's summoned), I can't really change which way he faces in a battle without killing him. XD It'll seem like he changes directions, but he actually doesn't. For example, his Big Bang attack animation will face the right if I stand on his right...but if I summon him from the left, he will still use Big Bang...except it won't hit me if I'm standing on the right. lol

Hm, maybe I'm not good with the wording. Here's a quick video of what they did: link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlgSeUFHmz4)
(According to the text int he video, their pinner brought 100 wheels with him...)

Basically they rather take the Big Bang's damage instead of seduce, so they all stand on the right to prevent PB from casting Seduce. (At least this is how PB behaves in their version)

[Dual]

Hm, maybe I'm not good with the wording. Here's a quick video of what they did: link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlgSeUFHmz4)
(According to the text int he video, their pinner brought 100 wheels with him...)

Basically they rather take the Big Bang's damage instead of seduce, so they all stand on the right to prevent PB from casting Seduce. (At least this is how PB behaves in their version)

Yeah, but also notice that that timer says they have 9 hours and 40 minutes remaining. Meaning they have all the time in the world. Plus that also means that the rusher would have to spend $500 just to make sure he can stay and keep it there. Hell, the video even shows them using nearly 2 hours fighting the Bean itself. That method is not efficient enough for runners in GMS to use, considering that just requires even more washing to be able to survive it.

It will probably behave the same, but its completely useless to even do here in GMS.

[MysticHLE]

They're still on its right side. So basically all it is is that if it's pinned to the left and it's facing right, then no seduce and no Gen...I'll test it later tonight when I have time. =O

[Lan]

Yeah, but also notice that that timer says they have 9 hours and 40 minutes remaining. Meaning they have all the time in the world. Plus that also means that the rusher would have to spend $500 just to make sure he can stay and keep it there. Hell, the video even shows them using nearly 2 hours fighting the Bean itself. That method is not efficient enough for runners in GMS to use, considering that just requires even more washing to be able to survive it.

It will probably behave the same, but its completely useless to even do here in GMS.

They didn't choose to get 12 hour timer and a drop-less PB; they just use whatever they are given. They stopped doing any more runs because there is no incentive for them to aim for speed. They would only be faster if given apples.

If washing isn't required, then a lot of people including me will be happy to not to do so. The thing is, ever since the KMS method was introduced, I haven't seen any video of people using that stradegy without getting massacred. So the feasibility of using that stradegy throughout the whole run is still questionable.

As for the 100 wheels... It's their first run so he probably wants to be as safe as possible. He didn't use all of them. Plus, their cash shop currency is only about 1/3 of the price in GMS.




They're still on its right side. So basically all it is is that if it's pinned to the left and it's facing right, then no seduce and no Gen...I'll test it later tonight when I have time. =O

Thanks. The perfect scenario I have in mind is to pin PB to the left (to avoid seduce) and dodge all the hard-hitting attacks like rockman, even though it's extremely hard to do. If we are going to dodge BB anyway, this feature might somehow become useful.

If not, well, some very wealthy people might do it anyway, just in case Nexon extends our timer one day.

[Cyanne]

Trying to see the animations will seriously be impossible with the amount of flashy effects, having it pinned right will get warriors seduced, at least those who aren't parked on top of it. You could maybe having maple sound effects be the only thing you can hear and try to listen for the effect, but the mass of sound effects from the attacks would probably drown it out.

When pink bean's facing right, it only casts 1/1 and big bang. So the best way to go about it is to have melee characters attacking from the right and ranged characters attacking from the left at a distance, with ranged characters standing near the throne area. When DR is up and it happens to turn left, ranged characters can do what you're doing in the video because nobody's attacking it. An AM's slow can keep it from moving around much. Then when DR goes down, a hero panics/shadower assassinates (whatever can KB it) to force it to turn right again, and the fight resumes for the 40 seconds until the next DR, then repeat.

Oh and here's a video of the barrel trick trivializing ariel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p9RchnFVrc
Also shows jMS getting to phase 6 with almost 30 minutes still left and without apples O_o How much attack does that orange juice thing give?

[FelixTM]

Oh and here's a video of the barrel trick trivializing ariel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p9RchnFVrc

Yeah... So how does this Barrel "trick" work? Whatever the Buc in the Barrel at the bottom was doing was keeping Ariel from attacking at all. What glitch is associated with Barrel that I don't know about?

---

I watched the rest of that battle (part 6). That entire squad managed to fight PB for around 25 minutes with hardly any problems. They didn't even get it halfway defeated, though... How did they get through the rest so fast? Besides the "trick" at Ariel. Don't want to sit through all of those videos.

[TKWizard]

Trying to see the animations will seriously be impossible with the amount of flashy effects, having it pinned right will get warriors seduced, at least those who aren't parked on top of it. You could maybe having maple sound effects be the only thing you can hear and try to listen for the effect, but the mass of sound effects from the attacks would probably drown it out.

When pink bean's facing right, it only casts 1/1 and big bang. So the best way to go about it is to have melee characters attacking from the right and ranged characters attacking from the left at a distance, with ranged characters standing near the throne area. When DR is up and it happens to turn left, ranged characters can do what you're doing in the video because nobody's attacking it. An AM's slow can keep it from moving around much. Then when DR goes down, a hero panics/shadower assassinates (whatever can KB it) to force it to turn right again, and the fight resumes for the 40 seconds until the next DR, then repeat.

Oh and here's a video of the barrel trick trivializing ariel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p9RchnFVrc
Also shows jMS getting to phase 6 with almost 30 minutes still left and without apples O_o How much attack does that orange juice thing give?

Its not surprising.

Kaede is full of insane people.

http://maplesonar.com/wiki/index.php?plugin=ref&page=%E8%87%AA%E8%BA%AB%E5%BC%B7%E5%8C%96&src=%E3%83%95%E3%82%A1%E3%83%B3%E3%82%BF%E3%82%AA% E3%83%AC%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B8.png only gives 30 atk and 20 accuracy.

[Fumni]

Oh and here's a video of the barrel trick trivializing ariel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p9RchnFVrc
Also shows jMS getting to phase 6 with almost 30 minutes still left and without apples O_o How much attack does that orange juice thing give?

My god, that Nightlord with the blue hair barely gets touched in that video :f6:

[aslemn]

The surprise is that they're using only 20 attack potions.
If GMS did so, maybe reaching phase 6 within 40 or 45 mins?
Well, reaching phase 6 within 30 mins makes it outpass the progress of any other version with 1 hour timer.

[MysticHLE]

Trying to see the animations will seriously be impossible with the amount of flashy effects, having it pinned right will get warriors seduced, at least those who aren't parked on top of it. You could maybe having maple sound effects be the only thing you can hear and try to listen for the effect, but the mass of sound effects from the attacks would probably drown it out.

When pink bean's facing right, it only casts 1/1 and big bang. So the best way to go about it is to have melee characters attacking from the right and ranged characters attacking from the left at a distance, with ranged characters standing near the throne area. When DR is up and it happens to turn left, ranged characters can do what you're doing in the video because nobody's attacking it. An AM's slow can keep it from moving around much. Then when DR goes down, a hero panics/shadower assassinates (whatever can KB it) to force it to turn right again, and the fight resumes for the 40 seconds until the next DR, then repeat.

Oh and here's a video of the barrel trick trivializing ariel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p9RchnFVrc
Also shows jMS getting to phase 6 with almost 30 minutes still left and without apples O_o How much attack does that orange juice thing give?

I don't know what barrel trick you're talking about...'cause at 2:41 they still all got hit by Ariel's Gen... I'd like some verification on such a trick... (I'm too lazy to get to phase 5 and kill everything except Ariel since I only work with a !killall command. <_<)

And you're right in saying it's (near) impossible to tell what PB will do with so many NLs/BMs shooting at it. I was able to tell what attack it was by looking at PB's tiny little arms (if they swing round and round, it's BB; if it goes upwards, it's Gen or Seduce). But that was only possible when the Buc wasn't on top of it.

On a sidenote to that guy earlier in the post arguing with me about Buc's invincibility at most of the time at PB...I hope Cyanne's video is enough to answer you for me - if you observe that girl Buc with the Jr. Lioner hat.

@Cyanne again: It's easy to keep a boss at a relative position, but it gets very complicated if you want to have him facing only 1 direction constantly and keeping it in a certain position constantly - with 20+ people attacking it.

The thing about keeping PB between the attackers...is the fact that Bucs will be *too* good at KB - each hit of Barrage in that video is KBing PB, whereas a Hero or Shadower will have too much open frames/damage fluctuations without KBing PB.

A mob only changes direction to the direction of the KBer only if the mob is KBed while not attacking. Otherwise, it will simply be pushed while it's attacking in the direction it's already facing.

That said, I guess a possible solution to keep PB under control...is for a Buc to constantly use barrage to KB PB from the right, back away, then let a warrior on the left rush PB back once (or another Buc and use CB), to be immediately KBed by Barrage again...with Slow from AM, etc.

Because if you don't constantly keep PB KBed and facing right, then PB WILL turn around to attack the ranged just by randomly walking left/right in between attacks. But in light of this, you can't Barrage it from right and then have another Buc from the left Barrage it back to the right either...since then during that, PB might face the left Buc if it's not in attacking animation.

I'm not sure how well that theory would work with a few KBers and 20+ other attackers. Back then, I remember me testing this kinda stuff at Dual Ghost Pirates. If the mob is hit and aggroed by a non-KBer, then that mob will face and attack in the direction of that person, even if another KBer keeps pounding at the mob...it will still take a while for the mob to turn around. <_<;

[昇平森膣]

God damn! jMS is doing better than Global! It's time for Global to step it up a knotch and figure out a good strategy, aye?

[Cyanne]

Yeah... So how does this Barrel "trick" work? Whatever the Buc in the Barrel at the bottom was doing was keeping Ariel from attacking at all. What glitch is associated with Barrel that I don't know about?

---

I watched the rest of that battle (part 6). That entire squad managed to fight PB for around 25 minutes with hardly any problems. They didn't even get it halfway defeated, though... How did they get through the rest so fast? Besides the "trick" at Ariel. Don't want to sit through all of those videos.

It's exploiting the fact that the statue's origins are all at the center at the bottom of the throne so that a buccaneer can draw aggravation while using oak barrel, and since the barrel has no hitbox while hiding, the boss can't detect the buccaneer and thus doesn't attack. It's like a multi-person puppet, and it works at balrog (origin is directly under the orb) and horntail (directly in the bottom center). As far as I know, the conditions for it to work are that nobody can be near the barreling buccaneer and that everyone attacking has to be on the same side.

They got through the statues quickly by using the trick to negate the stun, knockback, and status effects most of the time, during which they could essentially do their maximum possible damage.


I don't know what barrel trick you're talking about...'cause at 2:41 they still all got hit by Ariel's Gen... I'd like some verification on such a trick... (I'm too lazy to get to phase 5 and kill everything except Ariel since I only work with a !killall command. <_<)

And you're right in saying it's (near) impossible to tell what PB will do with so many NLs/BMs shooting at it. I was able to tell what attack it was by looking at PB's tiny little arms (if they swing round and round, it's BB; if it goes upwards, it's Gen or Seduce). But that was only possible when the Buc wasn't on top of it.

On a sidenote to that guy earlier in the post arguing with me about Buc's invincibility at most of the time at PB...I hope Cyanne's video is enough to answer you for me - if you observe that girl Buc with the Jr. Lioner hat.

@Cyanne again: It's easy to keep a boss at a relative position, but it gets very complicated if you want to have him facing only 1 direction constantly and keeping it in a certain position constantly - with 20+ people attacking it.

The thing about keeping PB between the attackers...is the fact that Bucs will be *too* good at KB - each hit of Barrage in that video is KBing PB, whereas a Hero or Shadower will have too much open frames/damage fluctuations without KBing PB.

A mob only changes direction to the direction of the KBer only if the mob is KBed while not attacking. Otherwise, it will simply be pushed while it's attacking in the direction it's already facing.

That said, I guess a possible solution to keep PB under control...is for a Buc to constantly use barrage to KB PB from the right, back away, then let a warrior on the left rush PB back once (or another Buc and use CB), to be immediately KBed by Barrage again...with Slow from AM, etc.

Because if you don't constantly keep PB KBed and facing right, then PB WILL turn around to attack the ranged just by randomly walking left/right in between attacks. But in light of this, you can't Barrage it from right and then have another Buc from the left Barrage it back to the right either...since then during that, PB might face the left Buc if it's not in attacking animation.

I'm not sure how well that theory would work with a few KBers and 20+ other attackers. Back then, I remember me testing this kinda stuff at Dual Ghost Pirates. If the mob is hit and aggroed by a non-KBer, then that mob will face and attack in the direction of that person, even if another KBer keeps pounding at the mob...it will still take a while for the mob to turn around. <_<;

If you listen carefully, you can hear the barrel bursting right before it dispels then attacks.

My understanding of aggravation on a non-KBable boss is that as long as the targeted character it's aggravated toward stays within its attacking range, it will keep spamming attacks on its target. If this is true, just have buccaneers not barrage and of course have MMs not snipe.

[FelixTM]

They got through the statues quickly by using the trick to negate the stun, knockback, and status effects most of the time, during which they could essentially do their maximum possible damage.


Figured it was because of more use of the glitch. Pretty lame that they had to rely on it. Watch GMS try it now and actually be able to defeat Pink Bean due to more raw power (something which the people in that video lacked, as seen in the last part).

It'll end up getting fixed once it becomes widely known, though.

[Beaner]

It's exploiting the fact that the statue's origins are all at the center at the bottom of the throne so that a buccaneer can draw aggravation while using oak barrel, and since the barrel has no hitbox while hiding, the boss can't detect the buccaneer and thus doesn't attack. It's like a multi-person puppet, and it works at balrog (origin is directly under the orb) and horntail (directly in the bottom center). As far as I know, the conditions for it to work are that nobody can be near the barreling buccaneer and that everyone attacking has to be on the same side.

They got through the statues quickly by using the trick to negate the stun, knockback, and status effects most of the time, during which they could essentially do their maximum possible damage.



If you listen carefully, you can hear the barrel bursting right before it dispels then attacks.

My understanding of aggravation on a non-KBable boss is that as long as the targeted character it's aggravated toward stays within its attacking range, it will keep spamming attacks on its target. If this is true, just have buccaneers not barrage and of course have MMs not snipe.


what should they do then? trow red snail shells at it?

[Magicianmt]

It's exploiting the fact that the statue's origins are all at the center at the bottom of the throne so that a buccaneer can draw aggravation while using oak barrel, and since the barrel has no hitbox while hiding, the boss can't detect the buccaneer and thus doesn't attack. It's like a multi-person puppet, and it works at balrog (origin is directly under the orb) and horntail (directly in the bottom center). As far as I know, the conditions for it to work are that nobody can be near the barreling buccaneer and that everyone attacking has to be on the same side.

They got through the statues quickly by using the trick to negate the stun, knockback, and status effects most of the time, during which they could essentially do their maximum possible damage.



If you listen carefully, you can hear the barrel bursting right before it dispels then attacks.

My understanding of aggravation on a non-KBable boss is that as long as the targeted character it's aggravated toward stays within its attacking range, it will keep spamming attacks on its target. If this is true, just have buccaneers not barrage and of course have MMs not snipe.

for statues, where would the bucc have to be in barrel? and for ariel does the bucc stand DIRECTLY under PB in barrel for this to work?

[Lan]

Oh and here's a video of the barrel trick trivializing ariel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p9RchnFVrc
Also shows jMS getting to phase 6 with almost 30 minutes still left and without apples O_o How much attack does that orange juice thing give?


That's very fast indeed; 30 minutes faster than TMS' record in February. But is there a reason for them to pin PB to the right instead of pinning it to the left, or splitting into two sides? Spawning in the range of BB may seem risky, but I think it's better than wasting time on seduce especially when they only have 1 hour to kill it.

I also noticed they brought mainly attackers and ~2 Bishops for mobbing. That's a lot of people who HP washed. @_@

[Takebacker]

I remember telling you guys the barrel trick months ago. :f3: Did they spam barrel the entire fight or what? If they only did it at ariel then it wouldn't speed up their time that much.

[Spaghetti]

When pink bean's facing right, it only casts 1/1 and big bang.


If this is true why not make a warrior just rush PB to the left and have everyone attack him from the right? If he can't cast seduce facing right then there shouldn't be any problem with people getting seduced into PB. Unless I'm missing something?

[Cyanne]

Big bang does 18k damage and is long-ranged, so everyone would have to have over that amount for that to work.


for statues, where would the bucc have to be in barrel? and for ariel does the bucc stand DIRECTLY under PB in barrel for this to work?

Yeah everything in the fight besides PB itself centers on the floor just below the throne. There's a yellow orb there if I remember correctly, so it's easy to tell.

[ImagineAll]

So tell me, how does a warrior go about doing this without HP washing? :f3:

[Lan]

Big bang does 18k damage and is long-ranged, so everyone would have to have over that amount for that to work.

I have seen Big Bang do up to 18.5k damage in the videos, like:

メイプルストーリー ピンクビーンin楓 10/24 Part6
[00:27], [00:42], [00:51], [00:56], [1:22], ...

Or maybe it's just Warriors.


I think the dodging method is possible though, but instead of asking everyone to see/hear PB's movement perfectly, it's probably easier to get everyone to go on ventrilo and have one person or two give commands like when to dodge/duck. (But you said seriously impossible so... nevermind)

[MysticHLE]

So tell me, how does a warrior go about doing this without HP washing? :f3:

Simple. You don't hug, but instead make use of your 150 pixel-wide attack.