Question about Str/Luk shadowers

[OutOfIdeas]

I read a thread the Str shadowers are way stronger that luk shadowers due to attack shields. However, my version of maple does not have any attk shields, so would Str shadowers still be stronger than luk shadowers or would Luk shads beat Str ones?

[Devil]

I read a thread the Str shadowers are way stronger that luk shadowers due to attack shields. However, my version of maple does not have any attk shields, so would Str shadowers still be stronger than luk shadowers or would Luk shads beat Str ones?1. Luk Shadowers can also have attack shields, mapleshields / wristguards scrolled with shield watt scrolls.
2. STR Shadowers with the kahnjar attack shields are not -way- stronger then LUK Shadowers, just in the margin of about 5%~10%.
3. Without attack shields or shield watt scrolls, LUK Shadowers are stronger then STR Shadowers, but again, it's marginal...
4. Shadowers remain weak compared to other classes with passive criticals, no matter if they're STR or LUK.

[GameMX]

1. Luk Shadowers can also have attack shields, mapleshields / wristguards scrolled with shield watt scrolls.
2. STR Shadowers with the kahnjar attack shields are -way- stronger then LUK Shadowers. 1 WATT gives about 5~8 LUK, and a Dragon Khanjar starts out with 15 WATT on the average, which is worth dropping at least 50 APs into STR, and using equips for the rest, or lower! (50 APs v.s. 75 LUK Value on average, without scrolls).
3. Without attack shields or shield watt scrolls, LUK Shadowers are not stronger then STR Shadowers.
4. Blood Shadowers remain weak compared to other classes with passive criticals, no matter if they're STR or LUK.

Fixed.

Also, Shadowers still need Meso Explode to be affected by SE.

[Greg]

STR Shadowers will always be stronger than LUK Shadowers. Some people invest 10b in LUK Shadowers without realizing they'd be a hell of a lot stronger if they invested the same amount into a STR Shadower, and I have no idea why. Being able to take advantage of three stats has its perks.

If you plan on dedicating yourself to a Shadower, go STR. Your version of Maple will get Khanjars eventually, and you'll feel silly for having gone the LUK route. I dunno why people even make LUK Shadowers nowadays... there's literally zero advantages when comparing them to STRs.

[OutOfIdeas]

So I have a few questions:

1)Are Str shadower daggers affected by Luk as well?
2)How should I raise my stats and what kinds of equips do I use for str shads? Because all regular theif equips have a Luk requirement.

[GameMX]

So I have a few questions:

1)Are Str shadower daggers affected by Luk as well?
2)How should I raise my stats and what kinds of equips do I use for str shads? Because all regular theif equips have a Luk requirement.

STR Daggers are only affected by STR and DEX, not LUK. In addition, STR Daggers have a higher base of 2 from the LUK Daggers. In example, GDK's Average is 95, Blood Dagger's is 93. The maximum amount of STR you need is 75 to wield all STR Daggers and shields. DEX will differ.

If you can, try to keep your STR low (and in addition, DEX). The most I would raise it to is 50 Base STR, while having equipment for the rest. And in the process (unless you have quite a bit of STR gear), lower the base. Ignore the STR on your Shield that is added by scrolls, unless you want to use MW20/30 everytime you want to reequip.

Also, if you have a lower base STR/DEX, and a higher base LUK, Maple Warrior will affect you more, due to it only affecting base.

[Mejust]

STR Shadowers will always be stronger than LUK Shadowers. Some people invest 10b in LUK Shadowers without realizing they'd be a hell of a lot stronger if they invested the same amount into a STR Shadower, and I have no idea why. Being able to take advantage of three stats has its perks.

If you plan on dedicating yourself to a Shadower, go STR. Your version of Maple will get Khanjars eventually, and you'll feel silly for having gone the LUK route. I dunno why people even make LUK Shadowers nowadays... there's literally zero advantages when comparing them to STRs.

I disagree with your logic. First off, if there aren't khanjars around, Luk shadowers ARE stronger. Second off why be weaker from the start in hope of your version releasing khanjars before you're a shadower, when you can just be luk and convert to str whenever those khanjars DO come out?

[CarrionCrow]

I disagree with your logic. First off, if there aren't khanjars around, Luk shadowers ARE stronger. Second off why be weaker from the start in hope of your version releasing khanjars before you're a shadower, when you can just be luk and convert to str whenever those khanjars DO come out?

For me it would be as simple as LUK daggers looking lame and STR daggers looking great...

[Devil]

- STR Shadowers with the kahnjar attack shields are -way- stronger then LUK Shadowers.
- Without attack shields or shield watt scrolls, LUK Shadowers are not stronger then STR Shadowers

lvl200 LUK vs STR Shadower:

LUK:
180watt
1173luk
160dex
Damage Range: 4527 ~ 8024 > Average: 6275

STR:
195watt
1134luk
160dex
Damage Range: 4757 ~ 8418 > Average: 6587

AVG Damage difference: STR Shadower is 4.74% stronger

lvl150 LUK vs STR Shadower:

LUK:
180watt
923luk
160dex
Damage Range: 3652 ~ 6404 > Average: 5028

STR:
195watt
884luk
160dex
Damage Range: 3657 ~ 6383 > Average: 5020

AVG Damage difference: 0.00% Both Shadowers are equally strong.

So, conclusion:
lvl150 - STR is 0.00% stronger
lvl160 - STR is 0.95% stronger
lvl170 - STR is 1.90% stronger
lvl180 - STR is 2.84% stronger
lvl190 - STR is 3.79% stronger
lvl200 - STR is 4.74% stronger

Like I said before... only marginal differences... and below lvl150, LUK Shadowers are marginally stronger then STR ones...

P.S. With Onyx Apples at level200 they have again the same strength:
LUK: 6649 ~ 11855
STR: 6741 ~ 11946

[GameMX]

lvl200 LUK vs STR Shadower:

LUK:
180watt
1173luk
160dex
Damage Range: 4527 ~ 8024 > Average: 6275

STR:
195watt
1134luk
160dex
Damage Range: 4757 ~ 8418 > Average: 6587

AVG Damage difference: STR Shadower is 4.74% stronger

lvl150 LUK vs STR Shadower:

LUK:
180watt
923luk
160dex
Damage Range: 3652 ~ 6404 > Average: 5028

STR:
195watt
884luk
160dex
Damage Range: 3657 ~ 6383 > Average: 5020

AVG Damage difference: 0.00% Both Shadowers are equally strong.

So, conclusion:
lvl150 - STR is 0.00% stronger
lvl160 - STR is 0.95% stronger
lvl170 - STR is 1.90% stronger
lvl180 - STR is 2.84% stronger
lvl190 - STR is 3.79% stronger
lvl200 - STR is 4.74% stronger

Like I said before... only marginal differences... and below lvl150, LUK Shadowers are marginally stronger then STR ones...

P.S. With Onyx Apples at level200 they have again the same strength:
LUK: 6649 ~ 11855
STR: 6741 ~ 11946

You're trying to do your traditional number game as usual, and it's quite funny.

Can you break 40k with BStep now, or still no?

[Devil]

You're trying to do your traditional number game as usual, and it's quite funny.

Can you break 40k with BStep now, or still no?1. The game is called math, and the numbers are taken from Dusk's DPS thread.
2. I dunno, I don't play my Shadower anymore, all I know is that I can break 60k with 1 Lucky 7 and 90k with 1 Triple Throw with SE, without Onyx Apples, at my lvl 120 Cygnus bloodbuffmule... good enough for me...

[GameMX]

1. The game is called math, and the numbers are taken from Dusk's DPS thread.
2. I dunno, I don't play my Shadower anymore, all I know is that I can break 62k with 1 Triple Throw at my lvl 120 Cygnus buffmule... good enough for me...

Then why do you bother setting bad examples here then if you don't even play your Shadower? Not all of us suck at it because we dump our APs into HP, hindering everything.

STR Shadowers have more possibilities. You're suppose to go Mid/Low-DEX, trying to keep your base LUK high for MW to affect along with the amount of WATT. Since STR Shadowers have a higher base WATT given on Dagger/Shields, it really helps.

What the hell would you do with 160 DEX? Do you not know how to cap your actual stats, and build equipment? You're trying to justify your little math game by giving them a high amount of DEX / STR.

Try actually making a character for once, instead of dumping your APs into HP all the time.

EDIT: Funny thing also, your HP(HB+MG) is 2k higher then mine, and I'm a Shadower with an actual damage range.

EDIT2: If you want to do an ACTUAL number game, don't forget the equipment, stats, and MW. You also made an error, STR goes into damage range, why did you not count that in, and what the pineapple did you do to the LUK? Don't forget Cygnus buff.

[Greg]

lol'd at how you deducted 40 LUK from STR Shadowers. You do know that it's extremely easy to be a STRless Low-DEX Shadower, don't you? STR Shadowers are stronger and they look better, period. Whatever point you're trying to get across doesn't mean anything; they'll always be weaker.

[Devil]

Then why do you bother setting bad examples here then if you don't even play your Shadower? Not all of us suck at it because we dump our APs into HP, hindering everything.

STR Shadowers have more possibilities. You're suppose to go Mid/Low-DEX, trying to keep your base LUK high for MW to affect along with the amount of WATT. Since STR Shadowers have a higher base WATT given on Dagger/Shields, it really helps.

What the hell would you do with 160 DEX? Do you not know how to cap your actual stats, and build equipment? You're trying to justify your little math game by giving them a high amount of DEX / STR.

Try actually making a character for once, instead of dumping your APs into HP all the time.

EDIT: Funny thing also, your HP(HB+MG) is 2k higher then mine, and I'm a Shadower with an actual damage range.

EDIT2: If you want to do an ACTUAL number game, don't forget the equipment, stats, and MW. You also made an error, STR goes into damage range, why did you not count that in, and what the pineapple did you do to the LUK? Don't forget Cygnus buff.I should just report you for flaming here, but since I hate reporting people, I won't.

Can't dispute my arguments with facts that prove me wrong and trying to "personally" attack me to prove you're correct? Please...comon... :f7:

Anyway, if you had taken a really quick look into the data, you could have seen Dusk's numbers already contain most of what you're saying, I included the Cygnus buff myself (+12att), just remember, the more Cygnus watt buff you get, the more watt advantage a STR Shadower loses compared to a LUK Shadower...


lol'd at how you deducted 40 LUK from STR Shadowers. You do know that it's extremely easy to be a STRless Low-DEX Shadower, don't you? STR Shadowers are stronger and they look better, period. Whatever point you're trying to get across doesn't mean anything; they'll always be weaker.I didn't do anything more then copy/paste. :)

[Greg]

I didn't do anything more then copy/paste. :)

Any experienced Shadower could've guessed that. Your facts are biased and misleading. There is no reason to make a LUK Shadower other than to be different.

[Devil]

Any experienced Shadower could've guessed that. Your"facts are biased and misleading. There is no reason to make a LUK Shadower other than to be different.Don't shoot the messenger... :f3:

[Greg]

Don't shoot the messenger... :f3:

Improper use of saying, you have lost five internets. You hid behind those facts as if they were solid, simply because you couldn't think of any other reason why the type of Shadower you are is any better than the type GameMX is.

[GameMX]

I should just report you for flaming here, but since I hate reporting people, I won't.

Can't dispute my arguments with facts that prove me wrong and trying to "personally" attack me to prove you're correct? Please...comon... :f7:

Anyway, if you had taken a really quick look into the data, you could have seen Dusk's numbers already contain most of what you're saying, I included the Cygnus buff myself (+12att), just remember, the more Cygnus watt buff you get, the more watt advantage a STR Shadower loses compared to a LUK Shadower...

You should seriously quit this crap.

If you want to play the number game, include EVERYTHING that affects range, Equips, Buffs, even STR, which you left out. I don't care who you took it from, you're using it here as an example that of which is misleading and false.

Maybe if you stopped pulling this crap out of your ass, you would get respect from me. But everytime you play this game, it's biased and false.

[Stereo]

lvl150 LUK vs STR Shadower:

LUK:
180watt
923luk
160dex
Damage Range: 3652 ~ 6404 > Average: 5028

STR:
195watt
884luk
160dex
Damage Range: 3657 ~ 6383 > Average: 5020

These ranges aren't quite right...
LUK
180 att
923 luk
160 dex
46 str (obviously the difference is in base str?)
= 3601-6351 -> 4976 average

STR
195 att
884 luk
160 dex
85 str (75 plus 10 from a khanjar? hell if i know)
= 3828-6683 -> 5255 average

5.6% advantage for STR shadower at 150.

[Rayquaza2233]

Um, (Dragon) Khanjars give luck. Khanjar gives 1 and Dragons give 2-4 (can't remember how much is average) on average.

[Dusk]

Where does the STR Shadower get 15 attack over the LUK Shadower without a Khanjar? The daggers only have a 2 att advantage and without getting any specifically-for-str gear (str top/cape) a STR Shadower only has about 50 STR. 25 STR isn't really worth 2 att.

[Rayquaza2233]

Dusk, it's more the fact that average Khanjars and Dragon Khanjars are cheaper than equivalent... other attack shields. The money you save can be invested in better daggers, which are also easier to scroll due to 2 extra base attack on strength daggers.

[Dusk]

Dusk, it's more the fact that average Khanjars and Dragon Khanjars are cheaper than equivalent... other attack shields. The money you save can be invested in better daggers, which are also easier to scroll due to 2 extra base attack on strength daggers.


I read a thread the Str shadowers are way stronger that luk shadowers due to attack shields. However, my version of maple does not have any attk shields, so would Str shadowers still be stronger than luk shadowers or would Luk shads beat Str ones?

I was answering the original question. Khanjars don't exist in said version.

[Greg]

I was answering the original question. Khanjars don't exist in said version.



If you plan on dedicating yourself to a Shadower, go STR. Your version of Maple will get Khanjars eventually, and you'll feel silly for having gone the LUK route. I dunno why people even make LUK Shadowers nowadays... there's literally zero advantages when comparing them to STRs.
When answering his original question, then yeah, LUK Shadowers are stronger than STR Shadowers. Dragon Khanjars will be available in his version of MS eventually. It's better to go STR, seeing how by the time he hits Shadower, Khanjars will probably be all over the place in whatever version he's playing.