I've been wondering...

[wobbufet]

Is FA even that useful for warriors? It seems to me like it's a waste of potential damage because of the unpredictability...

[Mira]

I find it usefull. It's basically PS w/o theuse of MP, and it's faster attacking.

Let's say PS->PS->PS is slower then PS->FA->PS.

That's how I see it, really.

[fataldeath]

even if its unpredictable, its still a nice boost to your DPS.

and FA usefulness is different between DK and Crusader/WK

Spearmen FA use: 30~70 (replaced crusher/fury)
dont get it because the most your gonna use it is 20-30 lvls

Fighter/Page FA use: 30~120 (replaced by brandish/Blast/ACB)
DO get it because without FA, your 70-120 is gonna be hell

[wobbufet]

I find it usefull. It's basically PS w/o theuse of MP, and it's faster attacking.

Let's say PS->PS->PS is slower then PS->FA->PS.

That's how I see it, really.

I don't really care about the MP use so I'll just ignore that statement if you don't mind.

The problem is that even though FA is faster it's also slightly weaker and not for you to control. It might also be PS -> PS -> PS (monster dead) -> yay FA hits the air!

It also seems to be working somewhat strange on bigger mobs when using SB...

[Mira]

I don't really care about the MP use so I'll just ignore that statement if you don't mind.

The problem is that even though FA is faster it's also slightly weaker and not for you to control. It might also be PS -> PS -> PS (monster dead) -> yay FA hits the air!

It also seems to be working somewhat strange on bigger mobs when using SB...

I'm a crusader, and I'm used to my FA hitting nothing. It really doesn't bother me, unless I’m at gobies and it causes me to miss the catch. My FA isn't weak, and I would kill a lot slower if it wasn't for FA. I don't know about DK's, but it seems useless for them.

[wobbufet]

I'm going to be a WK/paladin if that matters...

Hmmm I might have to look into this again... watch some videos and stuff like that... I guess I just don't like being unable to determine what moves I'll be using.

[Light]

I don't really care about the MP use so I'll just ignore that statement if you don't mind.

The problem is that even though FA is faster it's also slightly weaker and not for you to control. It might also be PS -> PS -> PS (monster dead) -> yay FA hits the air!

It also seems to be working somewhat strange on bigger mobs when using SB...

Alright the reason that White Knights and Crusaders put points in FA is because it is faster and doesn't cost mp. Although it is slightly weaker (does 10% less damage then PS when activated from PS) the fact that it can hit the enemy in less time makes up for that slight damage loss.

Knowing when it will activate isn't as important as actually having it. Since it is a faster attack, if it misses you can recover that much faster then if you used PS or SB.

Lastly, Crusaders find FA to be a necessity so they can charge their orbs faster, while White Knights on the other hand use it simply for the reasons stated above. Dragon Knights do not need it because they get Crusher and Fury in 3rd job.

The reason it is one of the best skills for Fighters and Pages to put their points into is because the rest of the skills they would points into besides FA are considerably useless (such as Hp Recovery and Iron Body).

[Mira]

FA happens 60% of the time (Lvl 30), so it’s not like you’ll never see FA, and it’s not like you’ll be doing PS->FA->PS->FA the whole time. :) FA’s dmg is 250%(L30), which is only 10% lower then PS(L30). So I find it decent damage, because 10% isn’t much really.

^^ I hope your WK/Pally is fun, and don't give up on it! :)

Edit: I didn't see the post above me. XD

[wobbufet]

Hmm seems like I might have to change my original opinion, I guess I'll just have to get used to it :)

[Flintlock]

You will get used to it. It's an expressive amount of additional damage when maxed. And I used to play as a WK, FA is very useful.

[wobbufet]

Can't wait till I get out of the 'boring' part of this new character once I hit lvl 75+ :D

[Stereo]

FA is really most useful for Crusaders, as it improves damage on all mobs (PS/SB), 50-130 or whatever level it's maxed and Brandish is not hitting multiple targets (up to level 10 Brandish, I think)

For WKs it's slightly less useful because it only improves Powerstrike damage (mob damage is equal to or slightly worse than FA-less, depending how many targets you hit with SB), but again it helps from around 50-125, from when you get FA maxed until you get Advanced Charge Blow.

For DKs it's the least useful, because it only improves Powerstrike damage, and this time it's replaced by 3rd job, making it useful for around 50-75, with a couple levels variation depending which DK skill you max first.



You may say the MP is not important, but it really reduces the speed you burn up MP pots so you can spend more time swinging and not hitting the MP button, considering low-level warriors tend to use 150-200 mp pots that's only 10-15 attacks (more if you only PS) and FA can increase that by 60%, giving you 15-20 attacks before you use a pot.

[Pockles]

You will get used to it. It's an expressive amount of additional damage when maxed. And I used to play as a WK, FA is very useful.

very true i find FA to be most useful, it's a nice boost to your dps

[solid_ice8]

FA has helped me quite alot, even as a 4th jobber
well, it depends lol

if it's low level stuff, i use PS more than SB (since fury is maxed, i spam that more than sb for longer range AND more overall dmg)

i totally got use to FA lol, i can tell you straight up it helps mp wise, no mp usage = atking more..atking more without using mp = faster leveling increasing mesos for all those unfunded ppl =P

edit: and remember, some people actually use this 60% from FA to play around with 60% scroll chances of working/failing

[HiiEN]

Final Attack has a bit of mixed reactions. In the early days, it was probably one of the best skills I had when grinding on zombies. There are pros and cons of FA, but for me I believe the pros were the MP save and the fact that it was easier to kill monsters because (for polearms, at least) PS/SB followed by a FA was faster than two PS/SBs. Of course the cons are that with spearmen you're limited to a 60% success rate (I believe pages and fighters was a bit higher, or that was the damage but either way their FA was better), also you can "miss" (not accuracy wise, but game physics wise) the monster and be left vulnerable in the FA animation.

These days though, there's builds that can go around skipping FA and putting the points into other things, such as an extended booster. My old build from the beginning of GMS was 9 Spear Booster, 9 PA Booster, and 30 PA FA. I had to play hybrid for the sake of ease in training, but switched to pretty much permanent spear. I do use PA from time to time but I have Fury to use now. The main thing is that FA is up to you and with the extended ways of training (easier monster:exp ratios, more PQs), most people realistically skip FA; spearmen really don't need it since PS/SB get replaced by 3rd job, however fighters and pages have more use for it in their 3rd job since they're stuck with it until 4th.

[Mira]

Final Attack has a bit of mixed reactions. In the early days, it was probably one of the best skills I had when grinding on zombies. There are pros and cons of FA, but for me I believe the pros were the MP save and the fact that it was easier to kill monsters because (for polearms, at least) PS/SB followed by a FA was faster than two PS/SBs. Of course the cons are that with spearmen you're limited to a 60% success rate (I believe pages and fighters was a bit higher, or that was the damage but either way their FA was better), also you can "miss" (not accuracy wise, but game physics wise) the monster and be left vulnerable in the FA animation.

These days though, there's builds that can go around skipping FA and putting the points into other things, such as an extended booster. My old build from the beginning of GMS was 9 Spear Booster, 9 PA Booster, and 30 PA FA. I had to play hybrid for the sake of ease in training, but switched to pretty much permanent spear. I do use PA from time to time but I have Fury to use now. The main thing is that FA is up to you and with the extended ways of training (easier monster:exp ratios, more PQs), most people realistically skip FA; spearmen really don't need it since PS/SB get replaced by 3rd job, however fighters and pages have more use for it in their 3rd job since they're stuck with it until 4th.

Fighter and page's FA is 60%, too. WK's and Saders use FA more then a Dk. Dk's use it untill 3rd job, and WK's and Sader's use it untill 4th job. FA is way more worthwhile for a WK or a Sader then it would be for a DK, and I would personally get Booster over FA, since you use booster forever. =)

[HiiEN]

Yeah if I made my Drk any later than even releasing something like FoG's I wouldn't think twice about putting my points into booster rather than FA, but given my circumstances at the time (yay zombies) I really had no other choice if I wanted to train even semi-efficiently. Oh and since the 60% was the same, I believe the damage for Crusaders and WK's was 10% higher than a Dragon Knight's. I think it was 240% for all spears and polearms and 250% for everything else. Why they did that I will never understand up to this day. It's as if they wanted rub it in by making a semi-useful skill even more useless. Yay go Spearmen! ._.

[wobbufet]

Yeah if I made my Drk any later than even releasing something like FoG's I wouldn't think twice about putting my points into booster rather than FA, but given my circumstances at the time (yay zombies) I really had no other choice if I wanted to train even semi-efficiently. Oh and since the 60% was the same, I believe the damage for Crusaders and WK's was 10% higher than a Dragon Knight's. I think it was 240% for all spears and polearms and 250% for everything else. Why they did that I will never understand up to this day. It's as if they wanted rub it in by making a semi-useful skill even more useless. Yay go Spearmen! ._.

I'm pretty sure it's just the same for spearmen as for the other warrior classes...and I actually trained my DrK at zombies too :p

[Heidi]

I am a crusader, and in some situations I find FA really useful, and others I just find it annoying.

Was really really useful all through second job and the start of third job.

When I first started training at the duals, I wasn't KB'ing them all the time due to my damage being too low. When that happened, I liked to try and get out of the way so that I didn't take damage. But if FA then triggered, and also failed to KB, then I wouldn't be able to get out of the way. That was happening at least once on nearly every dual. Though now that I am higher level, its really really useful there because unless my combo is hardly charged, I KB them pretty much all the time, so the other benefits of it come out.

And at gobies it has its good points and bad points. It can be great for destroying the goby houses before they can use their weapon cancel, because it allows you to get more damage in in less time, but then I have sometimes found that if it triggers on the last one, I can't always coma the gobies fast enough before they run away (Especially if I am lagging a little)

I would have rathered that it was a buff.

Also, something slightly to the side, has anybody else noticed that the description for FA in game implies that the second attack is stronger than the first when it isn't?

[wobbufet]

Also, something slightly to the side, has anybody else noticed that the description for FA in game implies that the second attack is stronger than the first when it isn't?

"Strikes another, far deadlier blow..." I suppose it's supposed to be used as a finishing move, but yes it does imply that it's stronger.

[Fiel]

"Strikes another, far deadlier blow..." I suppose it's supposed to be used as a finishing move, but yes it does imply that it's stronger.

It IS stronger if you also include the added speed boost from FA.

[wobbufet]

It IS stronger if you also include the added speed boost from FA.

Hmm yeah, you could look at it that way :p Although I don't really think about speed when I'm thinking about strength... that might just be my opinion o.o

[xDae]

From my years in this game, I have learned this much:

Bowman FA = fail
Warrior FA = win

[wobbufet]

From my years in this game, I have learned this much:

Bowman FA = fail
Warrior FA = win

Yeah that's what I've learned too, but I decided to question it anyway :D

I'm just stubborn like that :rolleyes:

[HiiEN]

I think most Archers in this generation skip FA anyways.

[crazybel]

What else would you use those points for anyways? Iron body or endure? xD

The only reason you would need those points for something else is if you go hybrid. And yeah, hybrid WKs are awkward and aren't fully hybrid (choosing one weapon for each charge). I would imagine a hybrid Sader to be awkward as well.

It boosts your damage (and for saders helps you gain orbs faster) so I think it's plenty more useful than the alternatives.

[HiiEN]

What else would you use those points for anyways? Iron body or endure? xD

The only reason you would need those points for something else is if you go hybrid. And yeah, hybrid WKs are awkward and aren't fully hybrid (choosing one weapon for each charge). I would imagine a hybrid Sader to be awkward as well.

It boosts your dps (and for saders helps you gain orbs faster) so I think it's plenty more useful than the alternatives.
Well for Crusaders/WK's it's no problem since FA helps them through third job. For spearmen, however, it's better to allocate thosa FA points into something more useful, say, Booster.

[wobbufet]

What else would you use those points for anyways? Iron body or endure? xD

The only reason you would need those points for something else is if you go hybrid. And yeah, hybrid WKs are awkward and aren't fully hybrid (choosing one weapon for each charge). I would imagine a hybrid Sader to be awkward as well.

It boosts your dps (and for saders helps you gain orbs faster) so I think it's plenty more useful than the alternatives.

It's not that I need the points, its just that I fear it might be a total waste of SP due to the unpredictability. <- is that even a word? x_X

[crazybel]

Well for Crusaders/WK's it's no problem since FA helps them through third job. For spearmen, however, it's better to allocate thosa FA points into something more useful, say, Booster.

Yeah, I was just thinking I forgot to include spearmen in warriors, lol.

They would indeed be only warrior subclass that is recommended to go fa-less.


It's not that I need the points, its just that I fear it might be a total waste of SP due to the unpredictability. <- is that even a word? x_X
Well, I guess it's really about preference if you look at it that way. But I never regretted having fa.
It's nice when it does come out, but yeah, unpredictable.

With the 60% rate, sometimes I watch it for fa and imagine if they were 60% scrolls. Sometime to pass the time during grinding. xD

[wobbufet]

Well, I guess it's really about preference if you look at it that way. But I never regretted having fa.
It's nice when it does come out, but yeah, unpredictable.

With the 60% rate, sometimes I watch it for fa and imagine if they were 60% scrolls. Sometime to pass the time during grinding. xD

Heh I do those kind of things all the time while training, now I'm really convinced :D

[Cardboardsnail]

FA rocks

It's not perfect though

Sometimes the extra hits are just a waste of time
Sometimes it even gets you hurt because you can't move while doing a final attack and a monster rams into you

[crazybel]

Ah yes, I forgot about that.

FA actually did get me killed once at zak. I got knocked into 3rd body by the stupid blue spawn as I was attacking and FA came out and I didn't run out fast enough. We were short on DKs that run and so yeah, tombstone.

When I train I run into monsters a lot anyways, so monsters ramming me don't concern me. I run through them sometimes to mob them anyways.

But besides that I never regretted FA.

[wobbufet]

Ah yes, I forgot about that.

FA actually did get me killed once at zak. I got knocked into 3rd body by the stupid blue spawn as I was attacking and FA came out and I didn't run out fast enough. We were short on DKs that run and so yeah, tombstone.

When I train I run into monsters a lot anyways, so monsters ramming me don't concern me. I run through them sometimes to mob them anyways.

But besides that I never regretted FA.
Hmm.. well I doubt I'll be bossing that much before I hit 4th job anyways so I guess it shouldn't be too big of a problem :p

[solid_ice8]

lol
it sounds pretty fun to be bossing x.x
my comp can only handle pianus/crow/anego/ergoth and 1 party zak

any more than 1 party zak will lag me even on low quality
and dont mention HT, i only managed to 2nd head, never got to 3rd part

so, i hope i can get archilles sometime, as fiel as once long ago told me on the other forum it helps with 1/1 atks

[»-Chris->]

Well, it's worth maxing for sure, but personally I hadn't found it too useful.

[Ranylyn]

Powerstrike: Increased DPS
Slash Blast on Mobs of 6 = Greatly reduced DPS

FA would be incredible, as in a rating of 10/10 in awesome, if it's Slash Blast activation wasn't so bullshit weak on the monster at the end of the attack. Especially for WKs, who don't need to charge up orbs, when mobbing, FA is quite frankly, the worst available use of those stat points for a WK. Charging up an element, using up the charge with Charge Blow, and rebuffing is better for DPS than Charge + SB with FA, according to Seyanin from SW if I recall.

Consider this. Some Paladins go Blast first, placing their inital point at 120 into it. Reason is probably due to not having the book for ACB which only drops at Zakum. They prefer 1 blast over maxed powerstrike since it's controllable, FA doesn't randomly activate. If it's such a big deal for a single-hitting skill at that level... well, keep reading, you'll see.

Crusaders go FA for Combo Orbs. DKs neglect it (for the most part) due to having replacements for Powerstrike and Slash Blast at 3rd job. The WKs are sort of trapped in the middle. It has its moments where it can be helpful... but a moment isn't even worth a grain of sand in the flow of eternity, or in this case, a few monsters killed by FA don't amount to much in the hundreds of thousands you kill per level up. It's worth it, the majority of the time, with powerstrike, but look. What's better, a single monster worth 400 exp, or a mob of 6 worth 150 each? Slash blast is the utensil used to eat the main course of your gourmet feast of monsters, and FA weakens it.

Ranyratings:

FA for Powerstrike: 7/10

It activates at bad times an awful lot, causing you to get hit, but I can't deny that it increases damage output, when it activates at the right time and not after killing something. It's hard to say whether it helps or harms in the long run, but it's noticeable that it deals damage, and that's what matters most to most players.

FA for Slash Blast: 2/10

Sorry, but 2-digit damage at the end of a chain of monsters hit with FA doesn't cut it. In that same time, I could have done a second, normal, Slash Blast, and killed all 6 in one strike, not just the two at the head of the group, taking even longer to kill the ones behind it. Let's also not forget that it adds up to a horrible inability to make the monster flinch, which is yet another way you take more damage rather than just poorly timed activation of the skill.


Verdict on FA for WKs: Your choice. Looking cool and single targets? Mobbing? Personally, Warriors aren't sins, we're mobbers! I prefer slash blast for training, and FA screws me over big time. When I reset my points to swap weapons, I'm not adding any FA, I'll let it rot there. It's cheaper than adding it to IB which is what I'd ideally do.

If only they let you toggle it on or off, so you can choose to never see the effect if it would inconvenience you at a particular map.

[wobbufet]

Osht! Unexpected change of direction! Warning! Error!

I do like mobbing though, and I just hate the SB damage :x

[Stereo]

Levelwise, I'd say FA shines from about 75-105. Through 2nd job and the end of 3rd, you're using SB a lot more often (in those in between levels, it's easier to assault single targets because it's harder to control mobs - SB doesn't knockback enough)

ACB replaces both PS and SB so you won't use FA at all by 123 if you can get that skillbook.


Personally I think FA looks good and would get it for that reason, I've played an FA-less warrior and it is definitely better in 2nd job mobbing maps, it's just a lot more boring because you barely use any skills at all.

[Cardboardsnail]

Yeah the slash blast does kinda suck.

[wobbufet]

I'll go FA-less, it is now decided! Screw regular builds!

[Cardboardsnail]

FAless it is! (Though it's kinda late for my page :/)

[wobbufet]

So should I max threaten or Iron body :')

[Cardboardsnail]

So should I max threaten or Iron body :')

Both suck.

Maybe go blunt AND sword mastery? :D

[wobbufet]

Hybrid page? :confused: Noty.

[Ranylyn]

Threaten's best use is on ropes. Normally you'd be better off launching that extra hit instead of using threaten, but on a rope, you can still threaten, before climbing up through a mob. It will reduce the damage you take and increase the damage you deal, though not to an incredible extent, it's at least noticeable if it's maxed. Same goes for Iron Body, essentially: It's not a gamebreaker, but it does save potions, and when warriors take a lot of touch damage from being close and personal, every bit helps.

Where I train, I take approxomately 17-40 damage depending on what touches me (without IB/ Threaten/ Powerguard) where as I see other warriors recieving over 200 damage at times, and let's not forget those sauna robe users taking even more. I make good mesos there, they comment that I do 200 damage less than them (it means nothing, I still 2hko like they do) Then they whine that they're poor, call defense useless, and then call me a hacker. It's enough to make a stoic burst out laughing.

Basically, Defense is the single most underrated stat in the game. Between loweing my damage output on mobs, despite raising it on single targets, or +40 def, fuck, I'll take the defense. I don't care if it doesn't do much on it's own, tack it on on top of the rest of my gear and boom, even more damage reduction. That damage reduction saves me a lot of money on potions, at least 6x fewer potions at my page's current 5x stages, and this money I've saved = funds towards better equipment.

[Stereo]

It might be 5x reduction at level 50's, but when you start going to Ghost Pirates the best gear can do is about a 15% damage reduction (compared to low def gear such as WG/chainmail/bamboo hat), and it's better to be strong enough to knockback all the time than to save a little money when you do get hit.