Concentrate's MP reduction

[Retalion]

I dont know if anyone's tested but to what we know, all if not most of maple's formula's round down. That being said, max concentrate reduces the mp use by 50%. Max Hurricane uses 9 mp and 50% of it would be 4.5 mp. Normally, it'd be assumed it'd round up to 5 mp/arrow and I would assume that at first too. Then a friend got me thinking and wondering, Ms rounds everything down, so would it use 4 mp or 5?

Level 1 Concentrate has a 2% MP reduction so would it mean an auto 1 mp less consumption on strafe/Hurricane because of it? Just curious... random question late night while waiting for the maintanance to be over. Sorry if its a stupid question or if Im not making myself clear D:

[Russt]

Well, if it helps at all, PG on snails is 1 damage to you, not the snail.

Eh. I know that wasn't much help :/

(Really I don't see it making much of a difference though, you can only have 1 Concentrate up 1/6 of the time.)

[Retalion]

Well, if it helps at all, PG on snails is 1 damage to you, not the snail.

Eh. I know that wasn't much help :/

(Really I don't see it making much of a difference though, you can only have 1 Concentrate up 1/6 of the time.)

I know, but its just one of those "how does it work" kinda questions that dont really effect anything. Even if it is 1 minute, assuming hurricane shoots 7 arrows per second (the number is somewhere around there right?), that's 420 mp saved... its 4:30 am, my math might be faulty but... yeah >_>

Edited number a bit: added 1 extra zero >_>

[summer]

jackk, hurricane shoots at exactly 500 arrows per minute held down, or 8.333333... you get the idea... per second

but then being how stingy nexon really is... it also might be the "reduction is rounded down" as in ... it reduces the rounded down 4 mp... so it ends up being 5 mp per shot...

i have no idea, because i don't think many actually has concentrate maxed... should ask brandon(silverbg2) about it

[Technolink]

Maple's rounding is largely unknown. We are now seeing that it is possible that maple uses the decimals when calculating your damage then might regular round, and the round down is skill-window only.

We do know that maple tends to round against you. So a 60% mp potion with 1226 mp will heal you 735 mp instead of 735.6 because rounding down is against you. But for something like damage done to you it'll round up to make your life hell. If a monster does .02 damage, it translates to 1 (as Sap said).

Just remember the maple rounding system is out to kill you. Saying that I'd assume 5 mp.

[KaidaTan]

Being that I have a decent level of Conc, I can confirm that it rounds down the MP reduction. So at 50% your arrows will cost 5 MP. Yeah I was hoping for that too Jack, all well.

[Russt]

If a monster does .02 damage, it translates to 1 (as Sap said).
Not exactly... that's because of 1-correction. No rounding involved.

[JoeTang]

Not exactly... that's because of 1-correction. No rounding involved.

1-correction is where if damage can be done, i.e. you don't miss the monster because of low accuracy, you will do at least 1 damage, and vise versa for the monster, correct?

[Kevvl]

Yeah, that's it. The same applies to Weapon cancel. It doesn't affect Iron Arrow or Arrow Bomb, because of how they multiply though.

IE: Doing less than 1 damage with Arrow Bomb makes the impact hit miss. Hit a mob of Wep Canceled Bonefish and the last few hits miss, etc.

[Russt]

1-correction is where if damage can be done, i.e. you don't miss the monster because of low accuracy, you will do at least 1 damage, and vise versa for the monster, correct?
Yes. It's a term I coined for when the client restricts your damage to the range of 1-99999.

I still don't quite understand what happens with Pierce and such.

[Dusk]

jackk, hurricane shoots at exactly 500 arrows per minute held down, or 8.333333... you get the idea... per second

but then being how stingy nexon really is... it also might be the "reduction is rounded down" as in ... it reduces the rounded down 4 mp... so it ends up being 5 mp per shot...

i have no idea, because i don't think many actually has concentrate maxed... should ask brandon(silverbg2) about it

I have no idea why you'd assume the developers would base attack speeds on shots per minute. Testing and a little bit of guesswork show that Hurricane shoots an arrow every 7 frames, or a little over 514 arrows per minute (8.5714 a second). Of course, this would mean 1. You can hold it down for a minute without burning all of your mp, 2. You started counting from a certain arrow mid-Hurricane, not when you pressed the button, and 3. there is absolutely zero lag involved.

On-topic, doesn't anyone have level 1 Concentrate? Just start it up and see if you use 1 less mp or not.

[KaidaTan]

On-topic, doesn't anyone have level 1 Concentrate? Just start it up and see if you use 1 less mp or not.

I already answered this. It does round the reduction. Level 1 Conc does nothing. Level 30 gives you 5 MP Hurricane arrows.

[Dusk]

I already answered this. It does round the reduction. Level 1 Conc does nothing. Level 30 gives you 5 MP Hurricane arrows.

Oh sorry, missed your post somehow o_o

[summer]

I have no idea why you'd assume the developers would base attack speeds on shots per minute. Testing and a little bit of guesswork show that Hurricane shoots an arrow every 7 frames, or a little over 514 arrows per minute (8.5714 a second). Of course, this would mean 1. You can hold it down for a minute without burning all of your mp, 2. You started counting from a certain arrow mid-Hurricane, not when you pressed the button, and 3. there is absolutely zero lag involved.

On-topic, doesn't anyone have level 1 Concentrate? Just start it up and see if you use 1 less mp or not.

actually it's easy...

get 2000 arrows... don't cast soul arrow, get auto pet mp... and just hold hurricane key for 1 min... and count the number of arrows used
do it about 6-7 times...

it will average out about 500 shot per minute

[Dusk]

actually it's easy...

get 2000 arrows... don't cast soul arrow, get auto pet mp... and just hold hurricane key for 1 min... and count the number of arrows used
do it about 6-7 times...

it will average out about 500 shot per minute

"about 500 shot per minute" isn't something I'm willing to call hard evidence. 514 is about 500. And does Pet auto mp allow you to keep shooting without any delay at all?

[Kevvl]

Pet MP works once, then you have to stop firing off Hurricane to get MP again. Closest thing to an Anti Bot that Hurricane has =P


Feel free to test the SPM yourself, Myst. Personally I say Minutes is a good way for the programmers to gauge skill speeds. The fastest firing attack (besides Hurricane) hits at exactly 100 SPM. If Wizet had done it by Shots per Second, it'd be alot harder (1.66667 SPS? o.o)

Who wants to have a skill at 8.5714 Shots per minute?


Also realize that the amount of FPS varies depending on how fast your internet is.

[Russt]

Actually, putting yourself in a game developer's shoes (which is a pretty effective strategy, it gave us our Heal formula :P), it makes much more sense for attack speeds to be based on a unit of time, whether frames or milliseconds or nanofortnights, rather than an inverse unit of time like attacks/minute.

[Dusk]

Pet MP works once, then you have to stop firing off Hurricane to get MP again. Closest thing to an Anti Bot that Hurricane has =P


Feel free to test the SPM yourself, Myst. Personally I say Minutes is a good way for the programmers to gauge skill speeds. The fastest firing attack (besides Hurricane) hits at exactly 100 SPM. If Wizet had done it by Shots per Second, it'd be alot harder (1.66667 SPS? o.o)

Who wants to have a skill at 8.5714 Shots per minute?


Also realize that the amount of FPS varies depending on how fast your internet is.

If you lag, you won't see every frame. You'll see a corrected display that moves at roughly the same speed.

I have never heard of any game using minutes to base an attack speed. I used to assume that this was how it was calculated, because that's how everyone else measured it. It's not accurate. I always found that Strafe was somewhere between 83 and 84 shots per minute. It's actually 83.7.

It's always done on frames, although to make it easier for players to understand, the time may be represented in seconds.

Fastest firing attack right now (booster on Fast (4) or Faster (3) weapon) is 36 frames. Our attacks are 43 frames.

This is getting way off-topic now, so feel free to PM me if you doubt what I'm saying.

[Aggrovated]

I would like to confirm it is as 5 mp per arrow with level 30 concentrate. I just tested, yo.

[Stereo]

If you lag, you won't see every frame. You'll see a corrected display that moves at roughly the same speed.

I have never heard of any game using minutes to base an attack speed. I used to assume that this was how it was calculated, because that's how everyone else measured it. It's not accurate. I always found that Strafe was somewhere between 83 and 84 shots per minute. It's actually 83.7.

It's always done on frames, although to make it easier for players to understand, the time may be represented in seconds.

Fastest firing attack right now (booster on Fast (4) or Faster (3) weapon) is 36 frames. Our attacks are 43 frames.

This is getting way off-topic now, so feel free to PM me if you doubt what I'm saying.

Calling them frames is misleading, it's based on 60fps even though lots of people run MS at higher framerates (my monitor's native resolution is 75Hz and there are higher)

[Dusk]

Calling them frames is misleading, it's based on 60fps even though lots of people run MS at higher framerates (my monitor's native resolution is 75Hz and there are higher)

That's your monitor's refresh rate, not the speed of the game. Games run at a speed that independent of your computer. Diablo II, for example, runs at 25 fps, regardless of how fast your computer displays it.

[summer]

what i meant by "about" 500 shots per min is 498 ~ 502 ... since hurricane shoots so fast it's hard to stop at exactly the same spot... but by doing it over and over again, you can practically conclude it's 500 shots per minute *big number theorem and central limit theorem*

getting the attacks out per minute isn't hard... like you said they don't have to display all frames every time, especially when it's shooting so fast

and yes, pet auto mp will make you pot without delay

you are a bow master... and i presume you have hurricane... go test it out yourself... don't have to do it over a min, do it over 30 seconds and i can almost guarantee you will fall within 1 arrows per half a min of 250... coincidence? i think not

[Dusk]

what i meant by "about" 500 shots per min is 498 ~ 502 ... since hurricane shoots so fast it's hard to stop at exactly the same spot... but by doing it over and over again, you can practically conclude it's 500 shots per minute *big number theorem and central limit theorem*

getting the attacks out per minute isn't hard... like you said they don't have to display all frames every time, especially when it's shooting so fast

and yes, pet auto mp will make you pot without delay

you are a bow master... and i presume you have hurricane... go test it out yourself... don't have to do it over a min, do it over 30 seconds and i can almost guarantee you will fall within 1 arrows per half a min of 250... coincidence? i think not

I'm wondering how you're counting exactly 30 seconds.