Weapon's attack speed questions.

[Kalovale]

So I've noticed people using a number behind the speed of a weapon, for instance a slow (7) spear, or a fast (3) one-handed sword.

Questions are:
1/
- Is there a formula to calculate the number of normal-attack hits per minute (or hour or whatsoever) for a weapon with given attack speed?

- Does a skill has a speed value (like the weapons' numbers) somewhere in the database? If it does, with the 2 values, would it be possible to calculate the number of hits of that skill with that weapon per amount of time? For instance, how many Dragon Crushers with an Omega Spear per minute? (answer is 60, taken from my own practical experiments)


2/ Am I stupid for asking those questions?

[Kranzorbaken]

Well sorry to be useless but i can answer number 2.
No its not dumb to ask. Were a forum here and thats what people here do...

[Kalas]

I don't know if theres a formula to caclulate it, You could always use a stopwatch or a time.

[Kalovale]

I don't know if theres a formula to caclulate it, You could always use a stopwatch or a time.

That's what I've been doing but I do not have polearm booster to test polearm, nor do I have sword booster, axe booster, and whatsoever booster.

Everything I can test is spear attacks, and that apparently is not enough. =/

[Kalas]

You could always test non boostered or have your friends help you out.

[Kalovale]

You could always test non boostered or have your friends help you out.

When I make job comparisons, I can't compare a boostered skill and a non-boostered one, if I happen to compare both non-boostered, it would not give the best explanation to what actually happens in-game.

And no, I would not want to bother my friend standing in one place hitting 60+ hits, well, my bad.. my friends* =(

[Kalas]

Last thing I can think of is either make a bunch of mules get them to X lv and do the comparisons yourself, you probably woulden't want to do that though. Your out of luck unless some one else has the information, I think I remember seeing it somewhere on SW awhile ago...

Well anyways sorry I coulden't be more help, good luck I guess.

[Nikkey]

So I've noticed people using a number behind the speed of a weapon, for instance a slow (7) spear, or a fast (3) one-handed sword.

Questions are:
1/
- Is there a formula to calculate the number of normal-attack hits per minute (or hour or whatsoever) for a weapon with given attack speed?

- Does a skill has a speed value (like the weapons' numbers) somewhere in the database? If it does, with the 2 values, would it be possible to calculate the number of hits of that skill with that weapon per amount of time? For instance, how many Dragon Crushers with an Omega Spear per minute? (answer is 60, taken from my own practical experiments)


2/ Am I stupid for asking those questions?

Skills have most likely a speed value, either some sort of multiplier, or amount of frames, or something like that.

With the 2 values, you should be able to calculate the speed one attack will take. However, I'm unsure if the skills will either be multiplied or added (in time/sec). Though with final attack, it seems that the attack takes exactly 60% of the speed of a normal attack and thus will imply that at least one skill will have a multiplier with the original weapon speed. Then again, we have another skill that negates that statement: Hurricane, which goes on 7/60 s/a. I'll do several tests with crusher later on this week, and I'll post up my results after that.

Current table for attack speeds for all skills but final attack, crusher and dragon roar:

Slower (9)...............57/60 s/a
Slow (8)..................53/60 s/a
Slow (7)..................51/60 s/a
Normal (6)................50/60 s/a
Fast (5)..................45/60 s/a
Fast (4)..................43/60 s/a
Faster (3)................40/60 s/a
Fastest (2)...............36/60 s/a
(Fastest (1)...............36/60 s/a)

booster removes 2 weapon speed. wind booster removes 1 until lvl 10 and 2 starting from lvl 11.


For the question 2: not rly.

[Kalovale]

I have some results for Crusher:
- Slow attack speed + booster: 60 hits/min
- normal speed + booster : 64 hits/min (Sky skis suck much, anyone?)

[Nikkey]

I have some results for Crusher:
- Slow attack speed + booster: 60 hits/min
- normal speed + booster : 64 hits/min (Sky skis suck much, anyone?)

I'm looking for the exact sec/attack speed. I got 2-3 dark knights to test it on, so it shouldn't be an issue. Only thing I can't find out is the speed of 2 hits instead of 3.

[Dusk]

Skills have most likely a speed value, either some sort of multiplier, or amount of frames, or something like that.

With the 2 values, you should be able to calculate the speed one attack will take. However, I'm unsure if the skills will either be multiplied or added (in time/sec). Though with final attack, it seems that the attack takes exactly 60% of the speed of a normal attack and thus will imply that at least one skill will have a multiplier with the original weapon speed. Then again, we have another skill that negates that statement: Hurricane, which goes on 7/60 s/a. I'll do several tests with crusher later on this week, and I'll post up my results after that.

Current table for attack speeds for all skills but final attack, crusher and dragon roar:

Slower (9)...............57/60 s/a
Slow (8)..................53/60 s/a
Slow (7)..................51/60 s/a
Normal (6)................50/60 s/a
Fast (5)..................45/60 s/a
Fast (4)..................43/60 s/a
Faster (3)................40/60 s/a
Fastest (2)...............36/60 s/a
(Fastest (1)...............36/60 s/a)

booster removes 2 weapon speed. wind booster removes 1 until lvl 10 and 2 starting from lvl 11.


For the question 2: not rly.

I've been trying to apply these tables to other classes, but it falls apart quickly with the huge variety of skill speeds available. I have people claiming that crossbows shoot slower than bows without booster. May I ask how you calculate these numbers?

[Stereo]

It's the time between consecutive shots (spamming the skill), marking from the same point in the attack every time.


Crossbows aren't really slower, but they do fire later in the animation, so the first attack takes a while to hit. Time between attacks is about the same, all Normal xbow/bow shoot at 43/60s w. booster (83.5 attacks per minute).

[Nikkey]

I've been trying to apply these tables to other classes, but it falls apart quickly with the huge variety of skill speeds available. I have people claiming that crossbows shoot slower than bows without booster. May I ask how you calculate these numbers?

As stereo said, I'm marking from the same point in the attack every time, and test it out some times to checkout that the speed is correct. Frapping at 100 fps.

Also, this is for warrior only, so I myself can't guarantee that these speeds are the same for magicians, archers, thieves and pirates. Though, I've got confirmations from shadowers, night lords and bowmen that the speeds seems to be the same for each class.

[Kalovale]

As stereo said, I'm marking from the same point in the attack every time, and test it out some times to checkout that the speed is correct. Frapping at 100 fps.

Also, this is for warrior only, so I myself can't guarantee that these speeds are the same for magicians, archers, thieves and pirates. Though, I've got confirmations from shadowers, night lords and bowmen that the speeds seems to be the same for each class.

Seems like it's not a bad idea to post this thread in Warrior's section =P

Well, if worse comes to worst, I would be satisfied with warrior's results.
And does your table include Dragon Fury? Everyone knows it's faster than Crusher but it never struck me that Fury is 100% speed (equals normal attack) o_O

[Nikkey]

Seems like it's not a bad idea to post this thread in Warrior's section =P

Well, if worse comes to worst, I would be satisfied with warrior's results.
And does your table include Dragon Fury? Everyone knows it's faster than Crusher but it never struck me that Fury is 100% speed (equals normal attack) o_O

Yeah, it includes all warrior skills but (shout,) dragon roar and crusher.

[Hero]

Just time it yourself. Normal 2H Sword are around 80 brandishes per minute, and red katana around 104. By timing, you can get a long way. :redface:

[Fat]

thats why i always said preferred anything but skiis, and no one would understand me.

[Kalovale]

Just time it yourself. Normal 2H Sword are around 80 brandishes per minute, and red katana around 104. By timing, you can get a long way. :redface:

- If I can time it myself, I won't need your Brandish's information.
- If I need your information, apparently I can't do it on my own.

I'm not posting this thread to bother people with things I am too lazy to flick a finger at, I did try everything in my ability before deciding to cause a nuisance here. Then again, your 'long way' could differ from mine.

Anyway, thanks for the Brandish's timing, that translates into (supposing Booster was activated?):
- Fast (4) speed: 45/60 s/a
- Fastest (2) speed: 34.6/60 s/a

Close enough to the table.

[HiiEN]

So just making sure, Crusher defaults a spear's speed at normal, right? Skis don't matter yes?

[Nikkey]

So just making sure, Crusher defaults a spear's speed at normal, right? Skis don't matter yes?

skis matter, speed matter.

[HiiEN]

skis matter, speed matter.
Then what the hell are people saying about crusher's speed and not needing skis?

[Nikkey]

Then what the hell are people saying about crusher's speed and not needing skis?

LIES.

Well, as far I know, maple impaler is way faster with crusher than omega spear. And omega spear is faster than redemption, so I would assume that this also applies for sky skis. (sky skis being normal(6) speed)

[HiiEN]

LIES.

Well, as far I know, maple impaler is way faster with crusher than omega spear. And omega spear is faster than redemption, so I would assume that this also applies for sky skis. (sky skis being normal(6) speed)
I figured the same thing, I mean the difference can be seen by the naked eye when you crusher with an impaler compared to an omega spear. Someone enlighten me and tell me otherwise?

[Kalovale]

So just making sure, Crusher defaults a spear's speed at normal, right? Skis don't matter yes?

No, my statistics are very close to exact, which means a skis is faster than an OS, but only by 4 attacks per minute. I'm not entirely sure how slow ff/pinaka/faltizan is, it also says 'slow', but who knows which slow??

[Hero]

- If I can time it myself, I won't need your Brandish's information.
- If I need your information, apparently I can't do it on my own.

I'm not posting this thread to bother people with things I am too lazy to flick a finger at, I did try everything in my ability before deciding to cause a nuisance here. Then again, your 'long way' could differ from mine.

Anyway, thanks for the Brandish's timing, that translates into (supposing Booster was activated?):
- Fast (4) speed: 45/60 s/a
- Fastest (2) speed: 34.6/60 s/a

Close enough to the table.

I just posted it because it's not hard to time shit yourself. You put on anything that has a decent timer and start spamming said attack. Do it a few times for an accurate timing, and there you go. I posted the brandish information so you could see it's not that damn hard.

[Kalovale]

I just posted it because it's not hard to time shit yourself. You put on anything that has a decent timer and start spamming said attack. Do it a few times for an accurate timing, and there you go. I posted the brandish information so you could see it's not that damn hard.

I can't spam more than 100 attacks unceasingly, just fyi.
And if you ever bothered reading at all, I did time stuff I could and found significant (Crusher, Fury). I'm here asking for a general rule (if any) rather than manual try-and-error work.

If we however don't share the same view, I personally am not satisfied with 'approximately' or even 'very close to exact' results.


I just posted it because it's not hard to time shit yourself
May I ask if you could time acb's speed? You sure as hell can go make a Paladin and test or ask your Paladin friend. But do you really think others' information is reliable enough? Unfortunately, neither choice for me.

[Hero]

I can't spam more than 100 attacks unceasingly, just fyi.

I said minute. Not hours on end. I doubt you'll be able to do as many attacks as a red katana in a minute to begin with, sir, for you are using a damn spear.


And if you ever bothered reading at all, I did time stuff I could and found significant (Crusher, Fury). I'm here asking for a general rule (if any) rather than manual try-and-error work.

If we however don't share the same view, I personally am not satisfied with 'approximately' or even 'very close to exact' results. .

It goes without saying I don´t read, but you´re saying you don´t believe anyone and at the same time you´re asking them for information (????)


May I ask if you could time acb's speed? You sure as hell can go make a Paladin and test or ask your Paladin friend. But do you really think others' information is reliable enough? Unfortunately, neither choice for me.

If you wanted to know that so bad, you could ask multiple paladins, and maybe ask a good friend to test it out on his character.

[Nikkey]

I can't spam more than 100 attacks unceasingly, just fyi.
And if you ever bothered reading at all, I did time stuff I could and found significant (Crusher, Fury). I'm here asking for a general rule (if any) rather than manual try-and-error work.

If we however don't share the same view, I personally am not satisfied with 'approximately' or even 'very close to exact' results.


May I ask if you could time acb's speed? You sure as hell can go make a Paladin and test or ask your Paladin friend. But do you really think others' information is reliable enough? Unfortunately, neither choice for me.

ABC speed is the same as blast speed. They both (should) equal the speed of brandish

[Kalovale]

I said minute. Not hours on end. I doubt you'll be able to do as many attacks as a red katana in a minute to begin with, sir, for you are using a damn spear.


Even slower speed could do as many as slightly more than 60 attacks per min, but meh, whatever. xP

And no, if I don't believe anyone why would I bother? Mind double-checking the words we used? Unfortunately, I only have a few Paladin friends, not all of whom should be dedicated enough to this matter as I am, not that you'd ever be aware of though xD

Regarding the acb example, just in case you didn't realise my implication, which I highly doubt (right?), it was merely an illustration to emphasize the fact that I can't test everything on my own. Then again, I think I was a bit vague about the idea, wasn't I?

Anyway, it would be in my best interest to keep this thread clean in case anyone might be willing to help me out, thank you for your contribution, which was telling me that I can time it myself, although I already acknowledge that xD


ABC speed is the same as blast speed. They both (should) equal the speed of brandish
Oh, I thought they were both SlashBlast's speed xD
Wait, or is Brandish as fast as those 3? Meh, I'm clueless o_O

Question: This is what I inferred from reading something like this: "Current table for attack speeds for all skills but final attack, crusher and dragon roar" => All warrior's skills (except the ones mentioned) have the same speed, and the speed outcome relies solely on the weapon's speed? Sry if it is actually obvious o-o, sometimes I'm slow xD

[Nikkey]

Question: This is what I inferred from reading something like this: "Current table for attack speeds for all skills but final attack, crusher and dragon roar" => All warrior's skills (except the ones mentioned) have the same speed, and the speed outcome relies solely on the weapon's speed? Sry if it is actually obvious o-o, sometimes I'm slow xD

All warrior skills (+normal attack) follow the speed table I posted earlier, apart from dragon roar, crusher and final attack.

Final attack is exactly 60% of the speed a normal attack would take.

Dragon roar's description is giving us either stun for 4-2 seconds, or 4-2 seconds + normal attack speed.

Crusher, I have no idea. I'd assume since it's most likely frame based, I can count frames and multiply with the amount of frames crusher do divided by the amount of frames a normal attack do to find the answer, will be checking it out when I bother to anyway, but I don't know when I'll bother to.

[Kalovale]

All warrior skills (+normal attack) follow the speed table I posted earlier, apart from dragon roar, crusher and final attack.

Final attack is exactly 60% of the speed a normal attack would take.

Dragon roar's description is giving us either stun for 4-2 seconds, or 4-2 seconds + normal attack speed.

Crusher, I have no idea. I'd assume since it's most likely frame based, I can count frames and multiply with the amount of frames crusher do divided by the amount of frames a normal attack do to find the answer, will be checking it out when I bother to anyway, but I don't know when I'll bother to.

I think I can do that, but do you have an confirmed information on Omega spear's and Redemption's speeds? Everyone knows they're both slow but I've more than often heard that OS is faster, probably it's Slow (6) and Redemption is Slow (7)?

Thanks for the table again, it really helps =)

[ahoboandahal]

I think I can do that, but do you have an confirmed information on Omega spear's and Redemption's speeds? Everyone knows they're both slow but I've more than often heard that OS is faster, probably it's Slow (6) and Redemption is Slow (7)?

Thanks for the table again, it really helps =)
Redemption is slow (8) and omega is slow (7). The (6) notation is used after normal, not slow.

[Nikkey]

Crusher. 3 hits:

Fastest(1), 48/60 sec/atk, exactly 75 attacks per minute.
Fastest(2), 48/60 sec/atk, exactly 75 attacks per minute.
Faster(3), 52/60 sec/atk, a little over 69 attacks per minute.
Fast(4), 56/60 sec/atk, a little over 64 attacks per minute.
Fast(5), 59/60 sec/atk, just a little over 61 attacks per minute.
Normal(6), 63/60 sec/atk, just a little over 57 attacks per minute.
Slow(7), 68/60 sec/atk, a little under 53 attacks per minute.
Slow(8), 71/60 sec/atk, giving 50.7 attacks per minute
Slowest(9), 75/60 sec/atk, giving out measily 48 attacks per minute.

[Kalovale]

Crusher. 3 hits:

Fastest(1), 48/60 sec/atk, exactly 75 attacks per minute.
Fastest(2), 48/60 sec/atk, exactly 75 attacks per minute.
Faster(3), 52/60 sec/atk, a little over 69 attacks per minute.
Fast(4), 56/60 sec/atk, a little over 64 attacks per minute.
Fast(5), 59/60 sec/atk, just a little over 61 attacks per minute.
Normal(6), 63/60 sec/atk, just a little over 57 attacks per minute.
Slow(7), 68/60 sec/atk, a little under 53 attacks per minute.
Slow(8), 71/60 sec/atk, giving 50.7 attacks per minute
Slowest(9), 75/60 sec/atk, giving out measily 48 attacks per minute.

Wow, amazing xD

And there was an update which increased the general speeds, were you aware? I think it was the same patch that improved skills. Do you have any record of before that time? I'm just curious how much it's changed over that amazing patch. :P

[Nikkey]

Wow, amazing xD

And there was an update which increased the general speeds, were you aware? I think it was the same patch that improved skills. Do you have any record of before that time? I'm just curious how much it's changed over that amazing patch. :P

I didn't record before that patch. Hell, I wasn't even aware that the speeds got changed with that patch (?!?!)

[Russt]

It was like 0.36 or something. Long time ago.

[Kalovale]

It was like 0.36 or something. Long time ago.

Wasn't it pretty recent? I remember it was the same as when Berserk got improved. I was overly worked-up about the new Berserk and my friend was the same about the new speed.

[HiiEN]

I was pretty sure it was farther back too.

[Stereo]

If crusher's speed was changed, then the old one was 3/2 of normal attacks and the new one is 4/3 or so. I know I used to hear 50% slower for 3-hit Crusher.



Fast(4) [normal + booster] 2-hit Crusher is approximately 76-per-minute. Normal(6) 2-hit is around 68 per minute. These kinda match +4/60 seconds per attack, no real percentage. I can't record anything over 30fps reliably so I can't really get more accurate.

[Kalovale]

Hmm.. Maybe I wasn't sensitive enough about the speed change and realised it too late >.>

And I have a big favor to ask of any of you: Can someone please prove to me (supposing I am one very ignorant and stubborn listener) that there are 9 speed lvls and that booster removes 2 speed lvls?

EDIT: I already conducted some tests on my own, but they were not sufficient enough cause no one would believe my result >.>
Another guy also did his own research, winding up with the same result as mine and still refused to accept the new truth, lmao <.<

[Stereo]

It's not really new, weapon speeds have been visible on sauna.gibbed.us for years and people who don't know about it are hiding under a rock.

The exact speeds haven't been posted widely (since it's just from ingame testing, not extracted from wz) but it's pretty clear that a certain number corresponds to a certain speed of weapon.

[Russt]

Wasn't it pretty recent? I remember it was the same as when Berserk got improved. I was overly worked-up about the new Berserk and my friend was the same about the new speed.
That would be 0.56, but I didn't notice any speed change come with that patch. -shrug-

[Kalovale]

It's not really new, weapon speeds have been visible on sauna.gibbed.us for years and people who don't know about it are hiding under a rock.

The exact speeds haven't been posted widely (since it's just from ingame testing, not extracted from wz) but it's pretty clear that a certain number corresponds to a certain speed of weapon.

I also suppose so.. Thus there's no (need) proving this?

[solid_ice8]

lol
i came across this question also from any ppl

didnt wanna think about cause it involved a lot of mumbo jumbo stuff..
so i just ignored it :P

[Kalovale]

lol
i came across this question also from any ppl

didnt wanna think about cause it involved a lot of mumbo jumbo stuff..
so i just ignored it :P

So what do you think of the results posted? Pretty handy, huh? :P
Boostered ff/Pinaka/Faltizan has fast attack speed, zomg!!!! <33

[Radius-86]

On a random note, I'm still surprised that wind booster will make 2h swords have maximum attack speed. For bossing purposes, assuming your party has a Viper, I guess 1h will be phased out again.

[Kalovale]

On a random note, I'm still surprised that wind booster will make 2h swords have maximum attack speed. For bossing purposes, assuming your party has a Viper, I guess 1h will be phased out again.

I thought the 10+ weapon attack bonus from shields already made 1hand weapons superior or at least equal to 2hand version, regardless of their speeds?

[Nikkey]

On a random note, I'm still surprised that wind booster will make 2h swords have maximum attack speed. For bossing purposes, assuming your party has a Viper, I guess 1h will be phased out again.

Yeah, it's funny. I tried with a pumpkin basket (faster 3, should go down to fastest 1) to attack, but ended up with the same sec/atk as a fast 4 no matter how many tries I did.


I thought the 10+ weapon attack bonus from shields already made 1hand weapons superior or at least equal to 2hand version, regardless of their speeds?

No. If Devil's Sunrise had fast 4 in speed, then everyone would be using it.

[modular]

I thought the 10+ weapon attack bonus from shields already made 1hand weapons superior or at least equal to 2hand version, regardless of their speeds?

a shield like that allows 1h dps to surpass 2h dps easily because of the 1h speed. when bossing with a viper and an apple, 2h wins because youll attack at the same speed with either weapon, but 2h WILL have a higher base range because of the bigger str multiplier.

outside of special bossing cases, 1h pretty much wins these days.
raven wing plox? maybe 2h can match 1h now.

[Nikkey]

Just something:

ACB has the same speed as Blast. It's just the animations that makes it look like ACB is faster.

[nighthawkspt]

Yeah, it's funny. I tried with a pumpkin basket (faster 3, should go down to fastest 1) to attack, but ended up with the same sec/atk as a fast 4 no matter how many tries I did.



No. If Devil's Sunrise had fast 4 in speed, then everyone would be using it.

Wouldnt wind booster make a 2h sword fast 4 and a normal 1h sword faster aka fast 3?

[Nikkey]

Wouldnt wind booster make a 2h sword fast 4 and a normal 1h sword faster aka fast 3?

Wind booster gives normal 1h swords fastest(2) speed and normal(6) swords fastest(2) speed.

[nighthawkspt]

Wind booster gives normal 1h swords fastest(2) speed and normal(6) swords fastest(2) speed.

Well that really sucks lol. The era of the end of 1 hand is fast approaching once pirates come out. At least for bossing purposes as you say.

[Nikkey]

Well that really sucks lol. The era of the end of 1 hand is fast approaching once pirates come out. At least for bossing purposes as you say.

Given that infighters are going to party you, that is. Having a red katana gives you more independence, but with the max DPS-players out there, I'm sure they'll change to a sunrise or a claymore when they realize. Or, even better, a Timeless Claymore. Which is sexy.

[nighthawkspt]

Given that infighters are going to party you, that is. Having a red katana gives you more independence, but with the max DPS-players out there, I'm sure they'll change to a sunrise or a claymore when they realize. Or, even better, a Timeless Claymore. Which is sexy.

Yeah 2h sword prices will likely skyrocket when pirates come out. I may go 2h once I'm done training lol just for maximium dps anyway at bosses which is all I will really do once I'm about 18x.