Ask a Thief Thread.

[Jason]

What is the "Ask a Thief Thread?"

It is a thread (hopefully sticked!) that will allow you to ask as many questions you can ask to the Thieves of Maple. They will try their best to answer your question/concern.

All you have to do post your question/concern. It would be very helpful if the question was to the point, specific, and preferably readable! It's just so that the Warriors can understand you. :D

Example questions:


Which attack is faster, Savage Blow or Lucky Seven?
Why is Lucky Seven so strong?
Should I get Flash Jump or Shadow Partner first?

Basic information:


A Thief needs at least 25 Dex points for the 1st Job Advancement.
Bandits use Daggers/Shields for melee style fighting.
Assassins use Claws/Stars for a ranged style of fighting.

Frequently asked questions: (coming soon)

[butterfλi]

Some FAQs answered:

How much luk = 1 watk!?

Take your total luk and divide it by your total watk. For example:

You're level 100, with 80 base dex and 427 base luk, and wear a 3 luk bamboo hat. That's 430 luk total.
You have ilbis (27watk), a 13atk glove, and a 50atk scarab. That's 90watk total.

430 / 90 = 4.77

You can see this as 4.77 luk is "equal to" 1 watk.


Shadow Mesos or Shadow Web!?

Shadow web. Ask ANY night lord and they will tell you that both shadow mesos and shadow web sucks.

"but shadow mesos is good for things like when you run out of stars at zakum or HT"
If you run out of stars at zakum or HT, that means either
You're not bringing enough stars
Your team is too weak to kill zakum/HT

"but shadow mesos has a high KB rate. I see level 90 hermits KB things in Leafre!!"
Yes but if you keep playing to level 120 and such, you'll see that lucky 7 will KB just about anything as well.

"but if they both suck, why shadow web?"
It's not the fact that you max shadow web; its because you have to use all your points before level 120. You can max double stab if you want and have fun at HHG. Many night lords will tell you to max dark sight. Not because you "solo pap" but because you can dark sight anytime you want; hang out with friends while they're training, walk around without getting hit, etc. With maxed dark sight, your speed won't get reduced and you'll still have 140% speed from haste.

Level 1 flash jump first or max shadow partner asap?!

Not important. Not the end of the world if you have a level 1 flash jump. You max them both anyway. BUT if you do a level 1 flash jump by level 27, that means by level 80, your training will be slightly slower than someone who maxed shadow partner first.


I have 63128 zillion mesos!! How do I maek sin!?

Buy a claw and some stars, get out of the free market, and start leveling and learning.


I have no mesos!! How do I maek sin!?

Keep your dex low (maybe even 25), and find some crappy claw that requires no dex (maple claw, very bad kandayos; very cheap) or low dex (meba) and use that until you can fund money for dex equips to hold a dex claw... or you can stay dexless.


Should I go dexless or low dex?!

Debatable. It depends on the watk of the dexless claw vs the dex claw. See the "how much luk = 1watk" question. A 60 atk scarab IS better than a 50atk skanda BUT only at later levels where you can no longer upgrade your watk. You can add luk as far as level 200 so luk will always be increasing which will only make watk worth much more. 10 watk is worth more than almost 50, 60, or even 70 luk.

[Rayquaza2233]

I have a sindit, so can I train in sin and bandit areas in my level range? (Level 55)

[Corn]

I have a sindit, so can I train in sin and bandit areas in my level range? (Level 55)

Not really since you don't have critical.

However, you can train in bandit areas.

[Rayquaza2233]

Can I go to a place 10 levels lower?

[Manu]

Can I go to a place 10 levels lower?

Yes, but probably the exp would be slower, stick to bandit (unless that could be more expensive then yes, go somewhere lower as sin.)

[DrRusty]

Are newties or skelegons better for a mid 13x shadower?

How is assassinates damage accumulated over time? I know maxed is 600% per hit no charge, but how many seconds, or how much per second, does it go up by?

I was thinking of doing a boss build for my shadower by first getting bstep to lvl 11 (it'll be there at lvl 125) but then after that, do 2 assassinate/1 bstep every lvl up. Does that sound like a good idea? I kind of wanted to find bstep 30 instead of dropping 100 mil for it.

oh and how many hits per minute is lucky 7 and SB =D

[Kigaz]

Are newties or skelegons better for a mid 13x shadower?

How is assassinates damage accumulated over time? I know maxed is 600% per hit no charge, but how many seconds, or how much per second, does it go up by?

I was thinking of doing a boss build for my shadower by first getting bstep to lvl 11 (it'll be there at lvl 125) but then after that, do 2 assassinate/1 bstep every lvl up. Does that sound like a good idea? I kind of wanted to find bstep 30 instead of dropping 100 mil for it.

oh and how many hits per minute is lucky 7 and SB =D

i believe skeles are better, ive been skeleing since 12x :P
dont know
dont know
well,you do about 100 TT's a minute,so it should be relatively the same w/ L7

[FantaTwist]

Are newties or skelegons better for a mid 13x shadower?

How is assassinates damage accumulated over time? I know maxed is 600% per hit no charge, but how many seconds, or how much per second, does it go up by?

I was thinking of doing a boss build for my shadower by first getting bstep to lvl 11 (it'll be there at lvl 125) but then after that, do 2 assassinate/1 bstep every lvl up. Does that sound like a good idea? I kind of wanted to find bstep 30 instead of dropping 100 mil for it.

oh and how many hits per minute is lucky 7 and SB =D

Skelegons because you waste less HP and it's where assassinate becomes useful

The boss build sounds okay but boomerang step does a stable amount of damage enough to KB strong width boss's. Pianus wouldn't be such a great idea to use assassinate at. but Pap is the most perfect place just where assassinate fits in between the resting time. Striking an assassinate with an even level of boomerang step should do the trick to keep in the rapid knock backs. Therefore I would suggest getting your boomerang step to level 20 first then tackle the assassinate.

As for your final question, I have no idea. As far as memory can tell I remember someone had studied it before but i can't remember who.

[Zim]

oh and how many hits per minute is lucky 7 and SB =D

200 stars per minute with L7, so that's about 100 L7s per minute. 1200 with TT and SP per minute. That's why putting a point on Shadow Claw at level 120 is very vital since at you'll be burning 200 stars for less than a minute instead of 1200 (although it sucks to rebuff every minute or so!). Every point you put on Shadow Claw, that helps you save at least 40 stars (1s = 20stars).

P/S: 40 stars does not sound like a big deal, but I've known NLs that train at Newties and runs out of stars at 98.xx%... pretty epic I would say!

[DrRusty]

does anyone know how many hits SB is per minute?

and what about my assassinate question :f4:

[Rayquaza2233]

I got an average of 75 SBs, so 450 hits per minute.

[Acim]

I got an average of 75 SBs, so 450 hits per minute.

I'm assuming that is without booster?

[DrRusty]

I'm assuming that is without booster?

thats what I was thinking also. I didnt know the exact times per minute SB casts, but I think its something over 85.

[ChiefHermit]

with a varkit, 84 sb's per minute
thats with booster ofc

[Radamanthys]

What level do Shadowers start maxing Venom? I'm lv117 and gonna be a shadower soon.

The route I plan is 1 Shadow Shifter -> 2 Boomerang Step -> Max boomeran Step -> Max Assassination -> ???

[butterfλi]

What level do Shadowers start maxing Venom? I'm lv117 and gonna be a shadower soon.

The route I plan is 1 Shadow Shifter -> 2 Boomerang Step -> Max boomeran Step -> Max Assassination -> ???

Most shadowers spend their first 3 sp they get for advancing on

vemon, bs, and shadow shifter. Level 1 vemon can hit as high as 10k per second. More hits = more poison. bs is a whole new skill. Who doesn't like new skills. Level 1 shadow shifter gives 10% chance to avoid. All levels after that adds 1% per level so level 1 is more useful.

For builds, read this thread.
http://www.southperry.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1344&highlight=candy

[Beserker101]

How many attacks can a fastest attack dagger (faster attack by default with booster) use in one second?

[Nikkey]

How many attacks can a fastest attack dagger (faster attack by default with booster) use in one second?

1 and 2/3 attacks per second with fastest speed, with normal attack speed.

Can shadow partner inflict poison with venom?
If so, then it's basically increasing the chances of hitting 3 venom stars by almost ten times (2.7% compared to 25.569%).

[Roxas]

How many attacks can a fastest attack dagger (faster attack by default with booster) use in one second?

By attacks meaning a skill or just normal attack?


1 and 2/3 attacks per second with fastest speed, with normal attack speed.

Can shadow partner inflict poison with venom?
If so, then it's basically increasing the chances of hitting 3 venom stars by almost ten times (2.7% compared to 25.569%).

Shadower partner cannot inflict venom on a target.

[Hatsu]

If buffed with Sharp Eyes can assassinate hit all 4 hits critical?
If so, Does the final attacks' critical rate increase?

[Shippo the Fox]

Yes, All 4 hits can critical and SE adds onto Assassinates Crit rate.

[Hatsu]

Yes, All 4 hits can critical and SE adds onto Assassinates Crit rate.
Thank you, very much. :D

Does SE apply to meso explosion?(break dmg cap ftw):cool:

[Shippo the Fox]

Doesn't apply to ME.

[Hatsu]

Doesn't apply to ME.

Darn :l

Thanks for the kind replies Shipp. (:

[Worthyness]

My cousin is just about ready to make Nightlord, and he was wondering what would be an optimum build for th first 10 levels of NL (120-13x)

If there is a guide, please can I have a link?

He has Triple throw already so that's no problem... Assume he won't be getting Triple throw 20 in those levels. Thanks in advance =)

[Nikkey]

My cousin is just about ready to make Nightlord, and he was wondering what would be an optimum build for th first 10 levels of NL (120-13x)

If there is a guide, please can I have a link?

He has Triple throw already so that's no problem... Assume he won't be getting Triple throw 20 in those levels. Thanks in advance =)

I've heard that poison is a blessing to the damage. Not sure if this is what you should do, but I would assume it is.

[Acim]

Could someone give me some UPDATED funded dexless assassin training spots that merit decent %/hour? I don't know much about hermits, but I've got my planned assassin training down:

10-20: Caution: Falling Down (done with these levels)
20-30: Excavation site (NEarly done with these levels)
30-50: CPQ against my mule, awesome EXP, I'll get through these levels in 2~3 days depending on how much my other computer is occupied
50-60: STDs
60-70: Voodoos/hoodoos

These spots merit decent %/hour, especially the lower leveled ones (got from level 1 to 24 in a quarter of a day. So, I need some training advice after 70.

EDIT: Is KPQ better than Excavation Site? And also, I heard Tengu/Anego/Bigfoot are really good for levels 150+, is that true?

[Matty]

Hey everyone, I have a Dexless Bandit in Yellonde, hes currently Level 23.
Can someone please lemme know where I should be training?
Thank you kindly :shine:

[Corn]

Could someone give me some UPDATED funded dexless assassin training spots that merit decent %/hour? I don't know much about hermits, but I've got my planned assassin training down:

10-20: Caution: Falling Down (done with these levels)
20-30: Excavation site (NEarly done with these levels)
30-50: CPQ against my mule, awesome EXP, I'll get through these levels in 2~3 days depending on how much my other computer is occupied
50-60: STDs
60-70: Voodoos/hoodoos

These spots merit decent %/hour, especially the lower leveled ones (got from level 1 to 24 in a quarter of a day. So, I need some training advice after 70.

EDIT: Is KPQ better than Excavation Site? And also, I heard Tengu/Anego/Bigfoot are really good for levels 150+, is that true?

Stay with hoodoos/voodoos for a while, and switch to MDTs when you have a 3 minute shadow partner (I'm assuming you're extremely well funded or I would of said maxed shadow partner).

Also...you don't really need to plan this early. Going to take a while, I'd say half a year at your rate, until you reach level 80ish.

KPQ is only better than Excavation Site if you cannot 1hko the monsters in Excavation Site III. (I'm assuming you will train there). If you cannot 1hko them, go KPQ. I'm also assuming you have a good route at Excavation Site III.

Most bosses aren't that good for exp, but then again, I'm kind of unexperienced with high level bosses :f2:.


Hey everyone, I have a Dexless Bandit in Yellonde, hes currently Level 23.
Can someone please lemme know where I should be training?
Thank you kindly :shine:

Ellinia tree dungeons, 'nuff said. The ones with blue and green mushrooms in them, not the ones with slimes and green mushrooms.

[ahoboandahal]

Could someone give me some UPDATED funded dexless assassin training spots that merit decent %/hour? I don't know much about hermits, but I've got my planned assassin training down:

10-20: Caution: Falling Down (done with these levels)
20-30: Excavation site (NEarly done with these levels)
30-50: CPQ against my mule, awesome EXP, I'll get through these levels in 2~3 days depending on how much my other computer is occupied
50-60: STDs
60-70: Voodoos/hoodoos

These spots merit decent %/hour, especially the lower leveled ones (got from level 1 to 24 in a quarter of a day. So, I need some training advice after 70.

EDIT: Is KPQ better than Excavation Site? And also, I heard Tengu/Anego/Bigfoot are really good for levels 150+, is that true?

Well, if bigfoot's glitch isnt fixed by the time you are a hermit, get early shadow web I think it is. (whicherver one does 100k to him) and train off those, if his glitch is fixed, once you have 3minute sp and decent avenger go to ws.

[Matty]

Okay, thanks Claw =)
I saw one of those before, but wait, what about KPQ?

[Corn]

Okay, thanks Claw =)
I saw one of those before, but wait, what about KPQ?

KPQ is only better than Excavation Site if you cannot 1hko the monsters in Excavation Site III. (I'm assuming you will train there). If you cannot 1hko them, go KPQ. I'm also assuming you have a good route at Excavation Site III.

However, if you have an extremely godly-at-clicking leader, and a decent high level party KPQ is better.

APQ is pretty good in the early 20s since you can just leach off of someone else's scorpians but kind of sucks later because people will leach off of you :f7:.

[Matty]

Sounds good Claw, I would've famed you by now <3
But wait, by Excavation Site, you mean what monsters?
Im Level 25 now btw.

[Acim]

Sounds good Claw, I would've famed you by now <3
But wait, by Excavation Site, you mean what monsters?
Im Level 25 now btw.

Excavation Site 3. It has 2 types of monsters: Wooden Masks and Rocky Masks. Wooden have 500 HP and give 42 EXP and Rockies give 45 EXP for 600 HP. The spawn is great and it's godly training.

[Matty]

Im training at Ant Tunnel now though...
Hornies Mushrooms and Zombie Mushrooms.
I cant even 1hko them yet.
So would Excav Site still be better?

[Corn]

Im training at Ant Tunnel now though...
Hornies Mushrooms and Zombie Mushrooms.
I cant even 1hko them yet.
So would Excav Site still be better?
Can you 1hko the hornie mushrooms?
If yes, go to the Ellinia dungeon trees.
The one with both green and hornie mushrooms.

If you can't even 1hko the hornie mushrooms, then go KPQ.

Excavation Site 3 is better once you manage to 1/2hko them.

[Matty]

Mkay, ill TRY KPQing.
Very hard since its so crowded -_-
Thanks/

P.S: Im a little upset how Level 26 mages take WAY morec damage then me.
Level 35 <3 come quickly!

[Corn]

Oops, forgot you're on Yellonde :cool:

Unless you can find a godly clicker, I'd suggest the Ellinia dungeon trees.

[Acim]

Ellinia Tree Dungeons are good, but when I was a level 25 bandit (and not even dexless) the EXP didn't even come close to the Excavation Site. Try out both, see which one you prefer based on map layout, %/hour, etc.

Here's a different sort of question that may get me a nice little spam infraction. How would you go about convincing a guild to let you into their zruns if you wanted to boss? Befriend them? I love my current guild, and I don't want to leave them, but I want to go on boss runs as well, and let's just say Literacy couldn't kill 4 Zakum arms.... (Please no comments like nub u lvl 3x cant go zak lolstfu an gtfo internt.) I like bossing. :(

[Matty]

If you love your guild....stay.
Zakum with another guild or buddys, but stay in your guild :3

Im Level 29 now everyone.
I chose to max Double Stab first.
So for 2nd job, Mastery or Savage Blow first? Explain.

[Acim]

Both are good. If you're CPQing, it goes so fast it doesn't even matter.

I chose Mastery first, but that's me. According to calculations BEFORE level 1 SB was 4 hits, (aka when it was 2 hits), Mastery was more powerful than SB-first around 30~37(somewhere around there) and SB first was less powerful until 37ish. It all ends up the same anyways.

If I could do it all again, I'd go SB first, but the choice is yours.

[Matty]

Mkay, I chose SB.
Its one of th reasons many become a bandit, and I love it.
Of course imma max mastery next to its all good.
And at level 35....FINALLY...... a new weapon = Korean Fan <3
My friend is giving me one :3

[Corn]

^Get mastery at level 1 when you reach level 30 :wink:

1 point and an extra 20% mastery? Win.

[Matty]

Oh are you positive?
If so next level (33) just put one point into mastery?
Answer quickly please D:

P.S: Thanks to Autumn and Claw for all your help.

[Corn]

Yeah just put one point. You will still max savage blow at level 40 anyways.

Oh, and it was 15%, not 20%. Still 3 times more than if you increase mastery to another point.

Edit: Was this quick enough XD?

[Matty]

3 minutes.......can I fame you plox? <3
Thanks so much!
Also what levl SB should I start using it other then DS?

[Matty]

Im mad at you Claw -_-
I added one sp to Mastery.....to find out every level = 15%
Thanks alot D:

double post....sorrys

[Kabanaw]

Personally, I maxed mastery first on my lvl 42 bandit, and am now working on SB. Since I also have lvl 6 booster, that means I att faster, and by my calculations a bandit with SB should be doing a little more dmg, but mine's more stable and faster. By level 19, 5 hits X 58% dmg = 290%, making that the level where it's more powerful. At 18, it's equal.

[Acim]

Also what levl SB should I start using it other then DS?

Maxed Double Stab is 140% damage times 2 (Nexon made it better), aka 280% damage

Level 1 SB is some percent x 4. It would need to be 70% to match up with Double Stab. Unless Nexon changed it, every level SB goes up 2% damage, with max at 80%. So, unless Nexon changed SB, like I said, Level 18 SB would equal DS, an level 19 would be more powerful.


Someone fix this for me please, as I am phail :(

[Matty]

Lol, thanks Autumn <3
So by level 36/37 Ill start using SB more.
I regret that 1 point into mastery....>_>....(ClawOfBeta)

[Corn]

What? Here's the table (or part of) O_O.

Level 1: Dagger mastery 15%, accuracy +1
Level 2: Dagger mastery 15%, accuracy +2
Level 3: Dagger mastery 20%, accuracy +3
Level 4: Dagger mastery 20%, accuracy +4
Level 5: Dagger mastery 25%, accuracy +5
Level 6: Dagger mastery 25%, accuracy +6
Level 7: Dagger mastery 30%, accuracy +7
Level 8: Dagger mastery 30%, accuracy +8
Level 9: Dagger mastery 35%, accuracy +9
Level 10: Dagger mastery 35%, accuracy +10
Level 11: Dagger mastery 40%, accuracy +11
Level 12: Dagger mastery 40%, accuracy +12

The first point gives you 15% =O. If you add another point it'll only add 0-5%...
Besides, you'll still max savage blow at level 40. I'm confused...

Oh, and at level 18 savage blow is slightly weaker if you calculate the monster's defense.

[Matty]

Ohhhh now i get it!!!
Sorry Claw D: thanks so much!
At Level 37 imma start using SB instead of DS.
Ok so after I max SB.....max mastery right?

[Acim]

Oh, and at level 18 savage blow is slightly slower if you calculate the monster's defense.

I was just going to say. =\

And yes, 1 mastery isn't a bad decision. 15% mastery for 1 point = yus?

EDIT: A typical/my bandit build is as follows:

1 point in Mastery -> max SB -> max mastery -> 6 booster -> max haste. The rest goes into steal/endure. I'd max endure, hanging on ropes for MP is good.

I probably messed up on that build a bit (my brain is fried), confirmation please?

[Corn]

Ohhhh now i get it!!!
Sorry Claw D: thanks so much!
At Level 37 imma start using SB instead of DS.
Ok so after I max SB.....max mastery right?

Whew, I was nervous there for a second.

Yeah I suppose max mastery since savage blow will be pretty unstable, but then again, I'm not a bandit.

I was just going to say. =\

And yes, 1 mastery isn't a bad decision. 15% mastery for 1 point = yus?

EDIT: A typical/my bandit build is as follows:

1 point in Mastery -> max SB -> max mastery -> 6 booster -> max haste. The rest goes into steal/endure. I'd max endure, hanging on ropes for MP is good.

I probably messed up on that build a bit (my brain is fried), confirmation please?

Endure>steal.
I'd say max booser then put the rest into endure (coming from a sin).

[ahoboandahal]

How have you guys all managed to be wrong about mastery in a row? Base mastery is 10%, look it up on hidden-streets damage calculator. Every 2 levels of mastery gives you 5 percent mastery.

[Corn]

Oh..eh...heh..heh....:f4: Sorry Matty.

[Matty]

Thanks Autum and Claw for everything.
But I must say.
Max Savage Blow > Max Mastery > 6 Booster > Max Haste > Max Booster > Steal

Endure will/always be useless....atleast Steal does somthing :3

EDIT: Actually...........WRONG......I have one point in mastery: 15% Mastery, +1 Accuracy.

[Corn]

Steal is worthless, but I forgot how (not a bandit).

[Acim]

Endure>steal.
I'd say max booser then put the rest into endure (coming from a sin).

Totally forgot about that.


Remember to max booster!
Don't let me kill your character.

[Matty]

Yes, its the most stupidest move in MapleStory.
But its fun to use atleast? :D

EDIT: I shall max booster Autumn <3
Lets keep replying quick :D

[Matty]

I decided on a new build after Level 21 Savage Blow:
Level 38 = +2 Mastery (3), +1 Savage (22)
Level 39 = +2 Mastery (5), +1 Savage (23)

So at Level 46/47 youlll have SB and Mastery maxed while your damage improving always.

[Acim]

I actually considered that build, except it was +2 SB and +1 Mastery per level. So you'd max them around the same time, I think. I don't know why I decided against it.

[Corn]

I suppose that's good since your mastery is always going up.
Acim, I think you decided against it because mastery only goes up every two points =O.
AND HOW IN THE WORLD ARE YOU ALREADY LEVEL 4X!?!??!??!!??

[Acim]

I suppose that's good since your mastery is always going up.
Acim, I think you decided against it because mastery only goes up every two points =O.
AND HOW IN THE WORLD ARE YOU ALREADY LEVEL 4X!?!??!??!!??

42, to be precise. Made 2x to 4x in what, 2 or three days? :P

I have two computers, and CPQ against my level 50 mule. Free wins, and since it's summer, I'm doing it 6+ hours a day. Godly EXP much?

[Matty]

Dayum Autumn! Thats pretty godly!
So yeah CruciaIly told me this build.
Its actually basically your Mastery is an odd number every level, which is pretty smart.
So then after you add 2 points, spend 1 point on savage to furthermore increase damage.

[Acim]

To keep this thread alive, does anyone know if the damage formula for L7 and TT and avenger are the same? Or could you give me the formulas for each?

[Kigaz]

To keep this thread alive, does anyone know if the damage formula for L7 and TT and avenger are the same? Or could you give me the formulas for each?

L7 and TT are the same.
avenger isnt, avenger is based on your w.atk/atk range (right? i've never really known, all i know is that it isnt the same :f3:)
either way, drain and avenger have the same formula (right???? :glitter:)

[Matty]

I have a question.
Is maxing Dagger Booster worth it? It only adds time I believe.

[Kabanaw]

I have a question.
Is maxing Dagger Booster worth it? It only adds time I believe.

Well, it's more useful than some other things. Steal is useless because you're basically just taking what would drop already if you just killed the monster. The only way it would be useful is if you were going around on a map with other people and trying to get a good drop without actually killing it. I mean, you have 121 skill points in the second job, So you can max everything and get steal to 11.

So basically, the only reason to max it is because there's nothing more useful. >_>

[Matty]

Sounds good =)
Thanks for that explanation sir :3

[Kabanaw]

Sounds good =)
Thanks for that explanation sir :3

No problem.

I like the bandit build because of how strait-foreward it is. In the end, the skill point distrobution is so simple. Both of the wizard classes have so much variation as to what to put SP into >_>

[Matty]

Yeah your right.
My build is somwhat confusing, though :P
Very true, easy build =)

I just levled to Level 39.
Holy crap mastery raised my min damage by 10!
Thats GOOD!

[Acim]

Yeah your right.
My build is somwhat confusing, though :P
Very true, easy build =)

I just levled to Level 39.
Holy crap mastery raised my min damage by 10!
Thats GOOD!

Yes, bandits have the most stable damage, I believe. I remember a few times where all 6 hits of my SB were within 7 damage of each other.

[Greg22]

Bandits are one of the most UNstable classes, damagewise. LOL.

[Matty]

LOL @ Greg.
They have low damage for a reason...
Savage Blow is a stable move.
So they get 6 low damage, stable hits...

[DrRusty]

LOL @ Greg.
They have low damage for a reason...
Savage Blow is a stable move.
So they get 6 low damage, stable hits...

It only looks stable because the damage is split into 6 hits. If you actually add up all of the hits and compare the totals, it really isnt anymore stable than any other class (except mages who I believe have 80% mastery on their magic attacks).

[butterfλi]

(except mages who I believe have 80% mastery on their magic attacks).

Magicians have 60% as well. It's just that they have a different formula which keeps things stable. Consequently, that same formula is what makes matk not have a big impact on their damage.



LOL @ Greg.
They have low damage for a reason...
Savage Blow is a stable move.
So they get 6 low damage, stable hits...
Bandits have stable damages. Shadowers don't. If you compare assassinate to sb, which both can be used for training and bosses, it's not stable overall.

Also because shadowers have more luk than bandits.

[Matty]

Well duhhh, more levels = more LUK!
So yeah I guess im wrong/right....idk xP

[butterfλi]

Well duhhh, more levels = more LUK!
So yeah I guess im wrong/right....idk xP

Yes but more levels = more luk = more maximum damage. Your damage increases but you don't have any skills that raises your mastery beyond 60% like dark knights or bowmasters. Ask any level 15x hero and they'll say they don't like their mastery and damage range.

[Dusk]

Yes but more levels = more luk = more maximum damage. Your damage increases but you don't have any skills that raises your mastery beyond 60% like dark knights or bowmasters. Ask any level 15x hero and they'll say they don't like their mastery and damage range.

Dark Knights are stable. 80% mastery, max and min damage have the same multiplier (5.0*str) Bowmasters aren't because our criticals do 340% while our normal arrows do 100%. Even with 90% mastery our lowest hits are incredibly low. Shadowers are kind of in the middle.

[Matty]

Mkay mkay dont go off topic D:

I agree with you in saying how LUK might cause unstable damage.
But mastery really stables up your damage, to a limit though.
LUK also adds avoid btw which is a plus.
And LUK isnt all that unstable, adding more damage is way worth it.

[Itachi54647]

How much base dex to low-dex sins usually have?
and which is better for a low-dex sin, scrolling for dex or scrolling for luk? (I have 50 base dex)

[Corn]

How much base dex to low-dex sins usually have?
and which is better for a low-dex sin, scrolling for dex or scrolling for luk? (I have 50 base dex)

Depends on fundings. However, you should have enough dex + the dex from your equipment to wear a scarab, gig, or craven (mostly a scarab).

You must scroll for dex if you want to wear the scarab or whatever.

[Itachi54647]

Depends on fundings. However, you should have enough dex + the dex from your equipment to wear a scarab, gig, or craven (mostly a scarab).

You must scroll for dex if you want to wear the scarab or whatever.
In terms of damage should I scroll for luk or dex?
and is 50 a good base dex?...and like I said before how much base dex do low-dex sins usually have?

[Corn]

In terms of damage should I scroll for luk or dex?
and is 50 a good base dex?...and like I said before how much base dex do low-dex sins usually have?

Well, you want to wear a scarab/something similar so you scroll for dex. If you scroll for luck that completely ruins the job "low dex"

Anyways, depends on your fundings if 50 is a good base dex.

[butterfλi]

Well, you want to wear a scarab/something similar so you scroll for dex. If you scroll for luck that completely ruins the job "low dex"

How does scrolling for luk ruin low dex? If you have excessive dex, then why not convert some of that unused dex into luk?

25 dex base, 35 dex zhelm, 22 dex pendant, 10 dex cape, 5 dex fs, 13 dex pants gives you 110 dex already.

From there, get 10 luk earrings and some high luk top. That's about 25+ more luk which is 5 level ups. There's nothing wrong with scrolling things for luk if you're dexless or even low dex. What your final claw is dictates what your equipment should be. Whether it's a skanda, craven, scarab, caster, or sleeve.

You might say 35 dex zhelm and 22 dex pendants are impossible to get unless you're 16x+ and in a zak and HT group. Yes that's true but until then, you can use a dex overall or dex earrings. Good equips comes from marketing and knowing the right people; inside and outside the market. Nobody expects a 9x unfunded character to have fancy stuff anyway.

[Corn]

Well, you could of have the excessive dex in luck in the first place when you're adding your points.

But if you are a dexless rab/craven/whatever user you might as well try to equip a craven or sleeve instead of a scarab with that much dex.

The attack bonuses from a claw is much more higher than the attack bonuses from luck equipment.

At around 16x I'd assume 12 luck = 1 attack.

[butterfλi]

Well, you could of have the excessive dex in luck in the first place when you're adding your points.

But if you are a dexless rab/craven/whatever user you might as well try to equip a craven or sleeve instead of a scarab with that much dex.

The attack bonuses from a claw is much more higher than the attack bonuses from luck equipment.

Yes, you can. But only it the atk of a craven would beat the scarab. 60 atk scarab vs a 60atk craven. The scarab wins by the 30 luk saved (6 level ups). That's why I said

What your final claw is dictates what your equipment should be. Whether it's a skanda, craven, scarab, caster, or sleeve.

But the point was the scrolling for or wearing luk equips does not completely ruin the idea of low dex which was something you said.

[Corn]

Yes, you can. But only it the atk of a craven would beat the scarab. 60 atk scarab vs a 60atk craven. The scarab wins by the 30 luk saved (6 level ups). That's why I said


But the point was the scrolling for or wearing luk equips does not completely ruin the idea of low dex which was something you said.
That's completely unfair, a 60 attack scarab vs a 60 attack craven.

Anyways, I exaggerated the point "completely ruins" *shrugs.*
But yeah, it doesn't completely ruin...just...bit unnecessary :f1:.

[butterfλi]

That's completely unfair, a 60 attack scarab vs a 60 attack craven.

Anyways, I exaggerated the point "completely ruins" *shrugs.*
But yeah, it doesn't completely ruin...just...bit unnecessary :f1:.

Okay then, we can settle/end the discussion there. Yes that is unfair. If one has a 6x atk sleeve and a 5x scarab, pick the sleeve and get the dex needed.

[Kranzorbaken]

got some funds for my dit in yellonde. 18m and 3 60% dagger atts.
So i wanna first slot 30% a dagger and 60 the rest.
But i dont know what dagger would be better to scroll, dt or df?
im thinking df since i can always get a good dt later on.

[Luscent]

Any tips for bombing Gobi's effectively? I know how much money to drop, I just don't know how to dispatch the Bonefish properly. How much meso should I be dropping to kill them?

[Starlily]

Can anybody tell me what a typical lvl 30 assassin's HP and MP would be after 2nd job advance? I'm working on a unique build and would like some kind of reference point. Thanks!

[butterfλi]

http://i37.tinypic.com/66ezgx.jpg

a level 30 should have around 20-24 less than that.

[Starlily]

http://i37.tinypic.com/66ezgx.jpg

a level 30 should have around 20-24 less than that.

I have 1027 hp and 823 mp at lvl 30. People have said it's roughly 350hp and 200mp for the job advance, but I only got 301hp and 197mp, so I'm wondering if I should start over and hope for a better HP boost from 2nd job advance. That missing 50hp hurts quite a bit.

[butterfλi]

http://www.southperry.net/forums/showthread.php?t=26

its up to you since it becomes less noticeable as you level. starting over might give you something lower. and being 50 hp behind is 'fixable' by washing 3 times.

[3xiledSlayer]

I have a question...I was wondering, when I get to NL, if I should put 1 in Taunt since I've heard it increases exp quite a bit. Is the exp worth the point and time it takes to cast the skill?

[Luscent]

Alright, so I've decided to go Low-dex now. Is there any way to calculate how much ATT my new dagger will need to beat out my dexless self?

[Itachi54647]

Which is best?
Luk+Dex Bandit (reg)
Luk Bandit (Dexless)
Strength+Dex Bandit
Strength Bandit (Dexless strength)

[FinalHeart]

Okay, I'm a dagger thief at the moment, with around 14 mil in fundings. I'm losing money fast from pots, but should I cap my dex? If I should, when should I cap it? I'm already at 50, so should I just leave it at that, maybe go up to 60, etc.

[Noob]

i started a thief/sindit In Kradia EMS
I want it to be str bandi.I'm not really funded but I'm merchanting slowly and also slow leveling. i was planning to start around 45~50 with dagger should i just go luk bandit before and at higher levels add str ,so that i have enough funding to keep it as low as possible? and what would be a good point to cap dex and str?
So should i go

dexless(till high level)
low dex at around 45~
low dex and str at around 45~

i think its the best to stay dexless/strless till around 45 since than i am only using the meba with dex equips. And we got dexless daggers for lv 35,50,64,75 in eMS,no zhelms, but we have top/bottem scrolls and helmet acc
Also any good training spots in NLC for sindits?

[Hello]

I have a question...I was wondering, when I get to NL, if I should put 1 in Taunt since I've heard it increases exp quite a bit. Is the exp worth the point and time it takes to cast the skill?

no cause with L7 / tt you will kill slower lol just do the normal TT/fake/venom/shadow claw taunt later.


Alright, so I've decided to go Low-dex now. Is there any way to calculate how much ATT my new dagger will need to beat out my dexless self?


watk > luk idk if theres a calculation for it or not lol

[GummyBear]

I decided on a new build after Level 21 Savage Blow:
Level 38 = +2 Mastery (3), +1 Savage (22)
Level 39 = +2 Mastery (5), +1 Savage (23)

So at Level 46/47 youlll have SB and Mastery maxed while your damage improving always.

That was the build I advised my bandit friend. 1 into mastery, 21 SB, then 2 mastery/1 SB per level. That or 6 boosters after 21 SB and then 2 mastery 1 SB. Just make sure your mastery stays odd until you finish maxing out all your important skills. This build cost more pot money, which she has plenty.

[VladTheLvr]

I get 160 xp from truckers for about 3000 HP and mesos are on par with my pots, without any drops, I get 7% in 10 minutes. Are these good training? For lvl 5x Luck dit?

[Corn]

I get 160 xp from truckers for about 3000 HP and mesos are on par with my pots, without any drops, I get 7% in 10 minutes. Are these good training? For lvl 5x Luck dit?

Heck yeah. That's 42% per hour.

[aDudeInRed]

How does a NL solo efficiently at 2nd body pap?

[butterfλi]

assuming you arent apple'ing and cant pin the 2nd body, make use of dark sight.

2 examples
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xvVdO8mFBA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=821EYdoe0hw

[FinalHeart]

So, I'm maxing mastery first (OMG NUB!!!) anyway, should I start doing 2 on Savage Blow and 1 on mastery, or just max mastery then move to savage blow?

I already put one into Savage Blow just for show, and the rest into Mastery (so 12). I'm pretty close to getting to 19 in mastery anyway, but still looking for advice.

[Ian]

For a general rule in savage blow/mastery, I would get mastery+level 5-6booster first if you have double stab, but if you used L7 in first job, I would get savage blow (with level 1 mastery) first.

[FinalHeart]

For a general rule in savage blow/mastery, I would get mastery+level 5-6booster first if you have double stab, but if you used L7 in first job, I would get savage blow (with level 1 mastery) first.

Then I made the right decision. *sighs in relief*

[Stereo]

So I need advice on scrolling my cape...


Gear otherwise:
3 dex Pilfer (yeah I really need to get a Zakum Helm... >_>)
15 dex Avenger
6 dex 4 slots Green Gonis
10 dex Earring
42 atk Slain
12 atk Stormcasters
1/1/1/1 Spiegelmann
=+35 dex, I have 60 base. (I've been wearing a Slain and lower leveled shoes up to now)

If I get a Zakum Helmet I'd be going up to +47 dex (107 total) so I'm not sure I need a dex cape in the long term.

I already have a 10 dex Black Napoleon (and a 3 atk str cape which I've been using), and I just bought a 2 atk clean Pink Cape.


I'm definitely going to be 60%ing it because I do need it to not break, I'm just not sure whether to go for LUK or DEX. If I scroll it for luk, it's an immediate damage boost. If I scroll it for dex, it lets me wear a Gigantic without having to switch to the Black Napoleon (I'm level 59 so this is soon). However I have been looking for well scrolled Gigantics and I've simply found nothing to compare to my Slain. By 70 I will almost definitely be able to get my hands on a Zakum Helmet.

I guess the question is luk or dex? Price is a factor but I'll be questing as many as possible so it's not a deal breaker if one scroll costs more.

[aDudeInRed]

If funding is a problem, i don't think over-scrolling would benefit you.

Dex Goals :
Level 70 (scarab) 110 dex
Level 60 (gig) 100 dex
level 50 (slain) 90 dex

Your current dex is at (60+35) = 95.

I personally think that scrolling for dex you're not gonna use until later level is a waste of dex, but i also think scrolling for luk and you need the dex later is a hassle. I think the best investment is buying a zhelm.

Getting a 12 dex and 12 luk zhelm is hard. I didnt even think there was such a thing. Thats enough dex for your next claw and you can continue scrolling from there.

Zhelms aren't that expensive anymore and it's a good investment. but surely ugly.

[Leah]

Really short question: When to have level 1 Taunt? :O
Would it be useful at level 1? Does it work on bosses?
I guess it won't be if it doesn't work on bosses.
The explanation isn't very clear: :"Provokes a monster, causing its general defense to increase. As a result, EXP earned and drop rate for items will increase for this monster."

I'm currently at level 156, with
TT 30
MW 19
Venom 28
Shifter 30
Shadow Star 1
Ninja Storm 1 (for fun - maybe I'll max this next, that is if I can level more ._. *shrugs*)
Hero Will 0 (I got the skill but I don't think I'll put any point into it) =/
Ambush 0
Taunt 0
And 2 saved SP

[Fear]

Really short question: When to have level 1 Taunt? :O
Would it be useful at level 1? Does it work on bosses?
I guess it won't be if it doesn't work on bosses.
The explanation isn't very clear: :"Provokes a monster, causing its general defense to increase. As a result, EXP earned and drop rate for items will increase for this monster."

I'm currently at level 156, with
TT 30
MW 19
Venom 28
Shifter 30
Shadow Star 1
Ninja Storm 1 (for fun - maybe I'll max this next, that is if I can level more ._. *shrugs*)
Hero Will 0 (I got the skill but I don't think I'll put any point into it) =/
Ambush 0
Taunt 0
And 2 saved SP

I had got taunt at level 13x, and have been using it ever since.

At skeles, it's really useful, I get an extra 1-2k EXP from each skele and during 2x that's like almost 5k extra per skele. I usually TT 2 times then jump and use taunt because taunting in air takes less time than on ground and then while venom is killing the monster, the taunt usually finishes off the monster. If not I just TT 1 more time and it dies.

Works in mobs too because you can hit up to 6 monsters with it now, so I really reccomend getting it.

[Deviant]

I recalled some Shadower on here saying the damage range between lvl 21 and 30 Bstep wasnt that drastic, only like 2k-3k, can anyone confirm the differences for me and tell me if its worth my 9 points to max it, or just put 9 points in MW? Any and all input is appreciated.

[PieM4ster]

2 Questions
First, I'm not positive on what to upgrade next. As a Lvl 70 Dexless Hermit I have:
44 Att Neva
10 Att WG
16 LUK and DEX Zhelm
2 Dex Spiegelmann Necklace
Clean BSS
3 LUK 4 slot Earrings
5 LUK 9 Slot Red Sauna Robe
3 Attack 0 Slot PAC
6 Steelys
and about 120 Mil to blow once I sell my deputy star. I can also get a good 100 mil from selling my Neva. My dilemma is basically; Try and get a good skanda or try to upgrade my other stuff and hold on until I can afford a better one. I am planning on buying about 8 more steelys at least.

My second question is, Can a level 80 Dexless hermit with maxed shadow partner kill Bigfoot with apples?

[GummyBear]

You should try to get a good Skanda first. Either that or see if you could do a decent trade for a 4 attack PAC (which is decently cheap due to the gold/silver boxes event).

Anyhow, just ignore getting stars for now. As for Bigfoot, I doubt you can kill it within a reasonable time frame, even with apple at level 80.

[Itachi54647]

I have question about the Hermit skills.
Are the skills, Alchemist, meso up, and shadow mesos useful? (is it reccomended that you should put points into them?)

[Corn]

Alchemist is unbelievable useful in potions. It's extremely recommended.

Eh, Meso Up is okay, but it's better than Shadow mesos and Shadow Web.

Shadow Mesos has limited uses.

[Bucket]

I have question about the Hermit skills.
Are the skills, Alchemist, meso up, and shadow mesos useful? (is it reccomended that you should put points into them?)

Of course Alch is useful, from back when all we had was Grims (and you were great stuff if you trained there) to now, Alch has never lost a tiny bit of use. Combine it with those fancy new pots from NLC, Sorcs and Barbs heal an amazing amount for their cost and'll do you good for the rest of your life. The earlier after finishing up SP you get it, the better. I did it as third skill the first time I made a hermit, and then on my second one right after SP, it's an immensely useful skill.
Meso Up, not so much. You'll get it before getting to Lord of Nig regardless, but you can hold off until you finish up on everything else besides Web and Shadow Mesosososos. Personally I got it before the aforementioned and Avenger, because I never found Avenger all that handy. Himes didn't come out first time round till I had it maxed and afterwards I still didn't care for it because with a bit of washing you can just as well go for the bottom of Newts, but that's more of a personal choice.
Shadow Meso on the other hand, has never once been a skill worth your time. Before all them fancy shammikafloody equips we have now, you'd do better damage than it at 12x/13x, now way earlier than that, Web has very limited uses itself but still more than Shadow Meso. Like holding Himes when killing the Tengumonster and not having someone mob them up for you. Anyone putting more than 1 point into these days is rather an idiot, in the past you could see it rarely used when a Zak went horribly wrong and you'd be in there after two and sommat hours, but that's easily solved by carrying a proper amount of stars, and Zak's more than 20 minutes nowadays are incredibly rare aside from solo's and maybe 6man runs not consisting of superduper people.

Meh

[Itachi54647]

Thanks.
Heres some more questions:
If i play for about 3-4 hours a week how long will it take to get from lvl 70-80, while maxing out shadow partner?(low dex)
@bucket, Do you suggest that i shouldnt max meso up or shadow mesos?

[Bucket]

@bucket, Do you suggest that i shouldnt max meso up or shadow mesos?

Shadow Meso you can skip entirely, Meso Up you'll put points in but not right away. It wont make you billions simply by training but it'll add a bit of income throughout the time of murdering innocent monsters which is always welcome, and there's nothing else remotely useful to to put points in.
Basically by the time you're 120 you'll have maxed everything except Shadow Mesos which doesn't deserve more than one point, ever. The remaining ten SP you could use to max Dark Sight if you haven't which is infinitely more than help than anything else you can do at that point.

[Itachi54647]

Thanks again for the info.
I think i have a good idea of what i will max now.

[Crazyman]

being twenty lvl to shadower is making me think of what build i would like

at 120 was
1 fake
1 BS
1 Venom

at 121
1 taunt (slight more exp and drop chance)
1 BS
1 Assassinate (for fun)

then BS to 21

then after 21 BS i'm debating Fake max or more venom.. I looked at a lot of threads but no answers have came to me by reading them.

[Mejust]

I think that what you should max first is more dependent on what skill books you have by then, rather than following some "ultimate build".

[Crazyman]

I think that what you should max first is more dependent on what skill books you have by then, rather than following some "ultimate build".

I want a fun build XD one to keep up with my guild leader Bishop 130 and the DrK of guild 140

Edit:

What is taunts range also btw?

[Hazzy]

Did assassins in gMS ever make Criticalless builds? I remember seeing some old videos where the hermits had no crit visible. Or did the red bolded lettering come later? :/

[ZachAttack]

Did assassins in gMS ever make Criticalless builds? I remember seeing some old videos where the hermits had no crit visible. Or did the red bolded lettering come later? :/

The UI was updated to show criticals a little while after the game started.

[ShadyPriest]

Did assassins in gMS ever make Criticalless builds? I remember seeing some old videos where the hermits had no crit visible. Or did the red bolded lettering come later? :/

Yep, the red bolded lettering came later.

--late

[Itachi54647]

I was wondering which is better training for a lvl 66 assassin: Mp3 or roids and heroids?

Btw i cant go to windraiders right now because its probably too crowded, along with mp3
(2x event)

[aDudeInRed]

I'm a level 127 low dex NL and just started playing again. I was wondering, what's more beneficial to upgrade right now, a higher att claw or Triple Throw 30 book?

I currently have a 60 att craven and level 20 TT. I currently have 150 mil and I was planning to earn some money soon. If I upgrade my claw, it would be around the same price of a TT30 book in scania. I was wondering if the higher weapon attack would be more beneficial or would trying to get Triple Throw 30.

The problem with TT30, is the 50% chance of passing.

[kleptophobia]

TT30 is worth the risk, it increases damage over time by more than any feasible upgrade to your claw (provided it succeeds).

[Bucket]

TT30 is a crap upgrade, better off putting points into actually useful skills and spending money on things that'll make your damage actually go noticeably up like a better claw. Anyone who's ever been a NL monster pretty much will tell you this, everyone who has never gotten to that point tells you otherwise strictly from assuming. Don't wither TT30 until 15x and put point in skills that actually help you.

[ItzTaylor]

Shouldn't buy TT30 till all your equips please you. If you Need a better claw, your better off just buying the claw instead of TT 30. Claws don't have 50% chance rate, and more then likely don't drop from the strongest boss in game.

And I have to disagree, TT30 does show a big difference. Just not as much as you would expect.

[GMSInfighter]

What would be like minimum funds for decent equips for a STR bandit to get to level 70?

Easy question :O

[Mejust]

The minimum funds would be nothing. Well, maybe 35-50mill for a zhelm. I honestly don't know what you mean with decent equips for a bandit. Decent equips to me are the normal thief armors. Really, what decent equips are, is only an opinion. Give us some more info about what kind of ap build you want to follow, please.

[GMSInfighter]

The minimum funds would be nothing. Well, maybe 35-50mill for a zhelm. I honestly don't know what you mean with decent equips for a bandit. Decent equips to me are the normal thief armors. Really, what decent equips are, is only an opinion. Give us some more info about what kind of ap build you want to follow, please.

That's kinda the problem.. All the guides say to pump stuff into DEX, but I really don't want that much DEX.

Right now I'm just level 10 with 25 DEX/4 STR/ 37 LUK/ 4 INT.

I think I'll have quite a bit of mesos if I do eventually quit my sniper completely. I have around 85m in pure mesos.

[Dyxanije]

That's kinda the problem.. All the guides say to pump stuff into DEX, but I really don't want that much DEX.

Right now I'm just level 10 with 25 DEX/4 STR/ 37 LUK/ 4 INT.
You could just use daggers that don't require dex until you reach the weapon you want to use (Korean Fan, Diamond Dagger, Maple Wagner, Maple Dark Mate, etc).



I think I'll have quite a bit of mesos if I do eventually quit my sniper completely. I have around 85m in pure mesos.
D:!

[mrcowcow]

I'm currently wondering what I should invest on in order to increase my damage output. Please bear with the fact that I'm unfunded and I've also been a normal dex (kinda straying now) thief since the beginning of time. I also didn't anticipate to get a Zakum Helm this early; therefore, my dex is quite high. I plan to AP reset down; but to what number? (Please let it not require too much NX. D:)

Dex: 151 (114+37)
Luk: 385 (358+27)

ZHelm, 13 STR, 14 LUK, 19 Accuracy, Clean. Everything else is average.
Spiegelmann, 2 luk, clean, everything else average.
PAC, 3 atk, 2 LUK, 0 slots.
Moonstar, 6 Dex 2 slots.
Dark Pirate Top, 2 Dex, 5 Luk, Clean.
Dark Pirate Pants, 2 Dex, 3 Luk, Clean.
Mithril Wolfskin, 9 atk, 1 Luk, 0 slots.
Casters, 52 atk, 6 Dex, 0 slots. (Bought before the gold boxes. >_>)
BSS, 5 Dex, 0 slots. / Dark Pirate Boots, 3 Dex, 3 Luk, 4 slots.
1 Ilbi, 4 Steelys, 11 Tobis. + Baby Dragon Food.

So as of now, what should I sell, and what should I purchase? I'm already working on a Deputy Star, so that's covered... But what else? I'm planning to keep on scrolling my Dark Pirate Boots and sell off my BSS. I might just get a Craven, seeing how high my Dex is... :\

Thanks for your help in advance.

[Elmo]

I have abuut 15m(I keep 3m away for pot emergencies) and I was wondering how should i invest that money. Right now im a really low level(24 i think dunno) so far normal dex and probably wont get a helm till like 100+ >:( what should my dex be when i reach around 40?

[kingdj333]

I have abuut 15m(I keep 3m away for pot emergencies) and I was wondering how should i invest that money. Right now im a really low level(24 i think dunno) so far normal dex and probably wont get a helm till like 100+ >:( what should my dex be when i reach around 40?

hmmm.. well are you tryna be low-dex or just normal. If your gonna be low then you should stop adding dex now! Also tak into consideration whether or not your gonna like being a sin and how far your planing on getting... With the 15 mil buy a set ot two of steelys and some tobis. dont worry about claws until 6x cause you have cpq..... Other then that your good to go but just buy 1 set of steelys every 10 levels or so...

[mrcowcow]

I have abuut 15m(I keep 3m away for pot emergencies) and I was wondering how should i invest that money. Right now im a really low level(24 i think dunno) so far normal dex and probably wont get a helm till like 100+ >:( what should my dex be when i reach around 40?

If you plan to be normal Dex, your Dex at level 40 should be 80. However, take into account that you can wear lower level equipment for some Dex points; then, you won't need 80 base Dex. I'm not very experienced with anything but Normal Dex. :eek:

[Mejust]

hmmm.. well are you tryna be low-dex or just normal. If your gonna be low then you should stop adding dex now! Also tak into consideration whether or not your gonna like being a sin and how far your planing on getting... With the 15 mil buy a set ot two of steelys and some tobis. dont worry about claws until 6x cause you have cpq..... Other then that your good to go but just buy 1 set of steelys every 10 levels or so...

About the stars... Commonly accepted truth is that quantity>quality. Having lots of tobis will do more for you than having 2-3 steelies. This will apply even in CPQ. What if you just happen to run out of stars during it?

With only 15mill as funding, I don't think it's realistically possible to be a real low-dex. If anything, wait with capping your dex when it's 90-110, but I personally think that you're better off capping at 100-110 than 90-100.

@mrcowcow, I see no point in scrolling for Dex when Dex obviously isn't a problem. You don't even need to bother with Dex bottoms at this kind of Dex. Getting a Craven is probably a good idea, though. And also, you have a quite strange set of stars. I'd personally upgrade those to an all-steely arsenal before buying any other upgrades.

[mrcowcow]

Hrm. I see your point in that. I'll just reset my Dex down to a reasonable level to equip a Craven and possibly aim for Luk Earrings then. However, I'll upgrade my stars before then.

Yeah, my star set is strange. I used to have full Tobis, but I got 4 mill Ilbis from one friend, and Steelys 1 mill each from a friend who was quitting. Guess I got lucky there...

Oh, before I forget, any opinions on upgrading my glove?

[Mejust]

Hmm, well. I personally think you don't really need anything over 9att on your gloves till you're 4th job. And even for 4th jobbers I think 11att should be enough on the gloves.

[kingdj333]

About the stars... Commonly accepted truth is that quantity>quality. Having lots of tobis will do more for you than having 2-3 steelies. This will apply even in CPQ. What if you just happen to run out of stars during it?

With only 15mill as funding, I don't think it's realistically possible to be a real low-dex. If anything, wait with capping your dex when it's 90-110, but I personally think that you're better off capping at 100-110 than 90-100.

@mrcowcow, I see no point in scrolling for Dex when Dex obviously isn't a problem. You don't even need to bother with Dex bottoms at this kind of Dex. Getting a Craven is probably a good idea, though. And also, you have a quite strange set of stars. I'd personally upgrade those to an all-steely arsenal before buying any other upgrades.

Well I think that quantity>quality is kinda the same as qualitiy>quantiy because the stronger the stars are, the more damage your doing with less stars your using... am I right? Where as if you have a large amount of stars that makes you hit the mob more just to kill just aint worth it to me... But just get tobis sinces there cheaper. :glitter:

You dont need alot of money to go low-dex, right? You might need some dex equips but hey you gain more money through CPQ ((NPC zards (only 7 coins))

@mrcowcow, whats your w/g atk?

[mrcowcow]

Thanks dj, but I've already gotten all the information I needed.

You're neglecting a lot of points there. Let's put aside price for a bit. Steelys have the same number of stars as Tobis, no matter what level your Mastery is, as long as you recharge them yourself. Steelys > Tobis, if the Steelys help you kill a certain monster in less hits. E.g. On average, killing a mushroom in 4 hits with Steelys versus killing a mushroom in 5 hits with Tobis. (Yes, a mushroom. It's just an example.)

Also, paid attention to the information I supplied above, you would have discovered that I don't have a work glove; I have a Mithril Wolfskin with 9 attack.

[Mejust]

@ kingdj:

What I'm saying applies to what usually is low funded situations and applies to tobi, steelies and ilbi. If you have insane funding to back you, by all means go fetch yourself some C.ilbi.

However.

Quantity>Quality applies to all those who don't have that kind of money. You claim that more damage = faster kills, and while this IS correct in some situations, I am forced to point out that those situations are when a mere 2 ATT boost can make the difference between 100% x-hitting and some lower percentage. Don't be misconceited, adding 2 Att to your range will not improve it by so much that you can actually 2-hit a monster instead of 3-hit. Also, a friend of mine once did a theoretical test and found that using a Warrior Elixer allows him to get 2%/hour more than he does with, when training. Now, a Warrior Elixer is a 12 Att boost, Choosing steelies over tobi, or ilbi over steelies is a mere 2 Att boost. If we apply the same theory to it, that 2 Att boost will be good for a mere 0.67%/hour boost to your damage. So the quality increase isn't noticable enough to cough up maybe 70 Mill to upgrade your stars when you could have easily gotten bigger boosts for the same money. And having a low amount of stars means you have to go back earlier to recharge, thus losing more time and exp from training.

And about your remark about Lowdex being cheap, you're wrong. Lowdexes are forced to buy good and expensive Dex gear if they want to be any good.

[mrcowcow]

I agree that 2 attack will not make such a big difference that a 3-hit becomes a 2-hit. However, there can be cases that a monster will have just a bit of HP left or so after say, 3 L7s, and no matter what, 3 L7s from your character specifically will not kill that monster. There could be an incident that upgrading by 2 attack would allow you to occasionally 2-hit that monster. I concede defeat to my point, as I was a bit rough in my description by stating the 'on average' part.

Edit: Is it even worth resetting 10 points from Nimble Body into Dark Sight? I followed an old cookie cutter build 3 years ago. Looking at my stats now, I don't see much use in having 10 extra avoid/accuracy. I could put 10 into Dark Sight at the end of 3rd Job, but then if I decide that I'd rather have stronger say, Shadow Meso, I can't reset those 10 points back into 3rd job. What are your opinions? Is it worth the NX at all?

[Mejust]

The part where I talk about the increase of %/our when you have upgraded is based solely on, per example, 2-hitting occasionally instead of 3 -hitting. So I believe I have already covered that possibility.

And for your question: From what I've heard, Shadow Mesos is a fairly useless skill. Don't take my word on it, though. I'm not an expert on hermits and their skills. And as for the other option, Nimble Body is a good skill to have, but not too great either. You CAN take some points out of it and chances are quite frank that you won't miss the 10 accuracy and avoid. Or even notice it. And maxed Dark Sight allows for fast travelling, but it's probably not too needed for hermits since you can always walk without Dark sight on to wherever you train because it's not dangerous along the way. So I wouldn't say it's worth the NX.

[mrcowcow]

Aight, thanks for the information.

And yeah, about the % increase /h, it's all up to the user to decide whether pooling in resources for the extra increase is worth it or not, and if there's nothing left to upgrade or not. Sorry about my misunderstanding of the situation.

[kingdj333]

I'm sorry, I dosed off for awhile.
Nimble Body<Dark Sight: Your a damn thief your dex is fair enough and it will go up everytime you add more points into luk/dex... So knock yourself out like I did and get level 5 nimble body...
Atk boosting % : Well this is true but if it only boosted his % by 2 then he's bad at training... lol, I did the test myself 3 hours without elxier and 3 hours with elier. (leveld twice)
Without = 25% and hour
With = 35-40%
2 atk goes pretty far.... Why do you think people get facestomper? Atk FTW?
Shadow mesos: If your a hacker go ahead and get this skill.. But still hackers wont touch this... Cause when you hit 4th job you get "star saver". Shadow mesos kills your mesos fast and unmercifully. But only get it if you wanna make it rain on the monsters... LOL
Getting flash jump at level 7x is dumb... It wastes mp because it's low leveled and gets boring after 100 jumps lol.

[Avenge]

Shadow mesos: If your a hacker go ahead and get this skill..

Calling me a hacker? :f3: pfft

[Mejust]

Don't be so negative about FJ at 7x. It's the funnest skill a hermit gets. Lots of assassins hit hermit only to mess around with FJ...

[kingdj333]

Don't be so negative about FJ at 7x. It's the funnest skill a hermit gets. Lots of assassins hit hermit only to mess around with FJ...

Yeah, lots of hermit who quit at level 75 get all of their skills just to have fun. :f3: I did that but i haven't fully quit my hermit. Dont get me wrong you can have a FJ build but its not recommanded if your gonna train fast around early 8x...

Should I continue with my Mage (level 73) or hermit (level 73) both 50%... hermit trains faster but mage is funner... :wink:

[Shidoshi]

Yeah, lots of hermit who quit at level 75 get all of their skills just to have fun. :f3: I did that but i haven't fully quit my hermit. Dont get me wrong you can have a FJ build but its not recommanded if your gonna train fast around early 8x...

Should I continue with my Mage (level 73) or hermit (level 73) both 50%... hermit trains faster but mage is funner... :wink:

I'd go with fun, because for me that's what games are about.

[karashi]

just a quick question, is anyone confirmed that Hwabie actually dropping in game? :f6: i never seen one in my server...

[kingdj333]

just a quick question, is anyone confirmed that Hwabie actually dropping in game? :f6: i never seen one in my server...

What type of server do you play in? Private? LOL i'm just kidding.... but no not really I thought they were only obtainable by gaching... Thats how I got mine....
If I dont have a z-helm will my damage suck? because idk if i should get it for my mage/pirate/hermit... I though my hermit would need it more but then again....

[karashi]

My char info tells all about me :P
Yet i never seen Hwabis in Mardia FM... or anyone who actually uses them :f6: saw alot of cilbis/furies though

In regard to ur question, i think zhelm helps more on bumping up the stat so you could become low-(insert stat) easier... But that just me, maybe it does make some difference to your damage... however i dont think it would affect like 1000+ damages

[blink182]

My char info tells all about me :P
Yet i never seen Hwabis in Mardia FM... or anyone who actually uses them :f6: saw alot of cilbis/furies though

In regard to ur question, i think zhelm helps more on bumping up the stat so you could become low-(insert stat) easier... But that just me, maybe it does make some difference to your damage... however i dont think it would affect like 1000+ damages

I've seen about 5 or so Hwabi in Mardia FMs. Rarely see them.

[karashi]

oh i got another question... this one is in regard to 4th job skill "Ninja Ambush". How useful does this skill actually are in both training and bossing?

[kingdj333]

oh i got another question... this one is in regard to 4th job skill "Ninja Ambush". How useful does this skill actually are in both training and bossing?

This question was quite hard to understand but I think that Ninja Ambush isnt that useful...
For both training and bossing because you'll be TTing all the time. Ninja ambush is only used when your trying to occupy two floors on one map. Bossing use will only help when attaching the summons but then you got bishops for that. so on a scale 1 to 10 its probably a 6.
Is 15 sets of steelys good or should I get more? I dont lik other stars.

[karashi]

as far as my guildie told me (since i ask the same question to him b4) he said 20 set in total is good for HT (but he got 15 in shadow claw). As far as zakum goes, he uses 2~3 for whole zakum battle. hope that help u in someway.

[EarthAdept2]

Question for the CBs/shadowers out there.

What's the most efficient amount of mesos to drop to do damage for ME? i.e Does the most damage for the least amount of mesos.

[kingdj333]

Question for the CBs/shadowers out there.

What's the most efficient amount of mesos to drop to do damage for ME? i.e Does the most damage for the least amount of mesos.

drop like 5~10k and max ME? I'm not sure if ME is nessecary

[Dusk]

Question for the CBs/shadowers out there.

What's the most efficient amount of mesos to drop to do damage for ME? i.e Does the most damage for the least amount of mesos.

That would be 10 mesos. A good amount of mesos to actually do some damage is usually between 1k and 5k, depending on what you're bombing. If it's a Goby house, I'd drop a lot of 500s. If it's Geist Balrog, I'd drop 2k or 3k.

[kingdj333]

Does anyone have a really good inspirational video of a hermit training? I've become so bored I dont know what to do now. :f7: I've looked through Youtube but there all old..... I want one thats atleast one month old. Oh and if anyone could, could you record yourself training and upload it on youtube?

[WillDaSnail]

Alright here's my own sin question (equips):

Right now, its Level 41 (leeched him 6 levels this weekend via BF) and I'm seriously thinking of taking him to NLhood. Reason: I want to try playing something with a different feeling.

Low-dex sin, 60 base DEX. (Not going to reset or raise it, ever)

Right now, I have:

- 7 slot 1 slot wg (might upgrade to 10-11 atk through self-scrolling later)
-a 2 atk PaC I can use
- 1 set of ilbi (for damage showoff purposes if needed, aka see how much damage I can really do at current level), 7 sets of steelies, and 2 sets of tobis (will upgrade to steelies when time comes). I can get more steelies after 3rd job when I can get maxed-out slot extension, enabling me to go up to 18 sets. (Ilbis are too expensive ATM for my own pocket)
- Silver Deputy Star (I can transfer from my F/P if needed). For now, Spigelmann neck.
- 23 atk Meba (will upgrade to a 34 atk Kandayo when I can get my hands on one). Planning to go Craven as my end-game weapon
- 10 DEX Bathrobe as temporary equip until I can get my hands on scrolled top/bottoms.

Future upgrades: Zhelm (can get easily w/o $ spent - from guild), slot extensions (after 3rd job, of course), 10+ DEX BSS, LUK/DEX scrolled top/bottoms......

Lets say if I have about 100m for example, what stat DEX/LUK top and bottom that I can attempt to get?

And what are they ways possible (besides zhelm scrolling, a DEX bottom or w/e, or an egg-scrolled HT pendant) that I can get at least 80 DEX?

And anything else's that missing?

Thanks!

[Shidoshi]

And what are they ways possible (besides zhelm scrolling, a DEX bottom or w/e, or an egg-scrolled HT pendant) that I can get at least 80 DEX?

And anything else's that missing?
Thanks!

for dex bonus there are also shoes for jump scrolls and earring for dex scrolls.

You can also get a glove with dex if you are desperate and while you don't get the dex needed from other equips. You could also scroll your cape for dex instead of luk.

[WillDaSnail]

for dex bonus there are also shoes for jump scrolls and earring for dex scrolls.

You can also get a glove with dex if you are desperate and while you don't get the dex needed from other equips. You could also scroll your cape for dex instead of luk.
I'm aware of Shoe Jump scrolls. Didn't I put 10+ DEX BSS as part of my intended equips? ;)

Glove DEX = a no. That's simply desperation at its worst.

DEX Earrings - likely the last thing I need to worry about since its quite expensive (70m for a 10 DEX, and I have barely have enough ATM for this upgrade), and self-scrolling it is quite expensive too. Maybe when I'm settled down, then I'll look into this.

DEX Cape: I'm seriously considering this as an alternative, if necessary. I plan to go LUK, but it can be subject to change any time.

Hope this clears it up. Thanks for the input though :)

[Fear]

This question was quite hard to understand but I think that Ninja Ambush isnt that useful...
For both training and bossing because you'll be TTing all the time. Ninja ambush is only used when your trying to occupy two floors on one map. Bossing use will only help when attaching the summons but then you got bishops for that. so on a scale 1 to 10 its probably a 6.
Is 15 sets of steelys good or should I get more? I dont lik other stars.

Uhh.. no. If you have acutally tried using Ambush, you'll find out it's one of the most useless skills. The only place I'll find this skill ever a TINY bit useful is during wep def ups.

@The Steely Question: It's okay depending on where you train and how long you're going to be training. 15 sets should last you a couple of hours.

[kingdj333]

Why is level 75~90 so boring? I just can't seem to stand the bordom:hothead:

[Dusk]

I have a 97 CB that I made back in 2005 and quit years ago. I'm considering restarting it as a side project (mostly since my other side projects aren't nearly as high levelled as it). The problem is, it has all the flaws that you would expect an old character to have. Its base stats are 4 STR and 107 DEX, 4 INT, and however much LUK is left. Would it be possible to convert to a STR dit and scroll equips for STR, to make up for the high base DEX?

I quit it at 71 and my friend did a lot of the levelling work from 71-90, and I have no idea what happened with the skill build. It only has 18 Dark Sight, which my friend reset 15 points out of Disorder for (I went 18 Disorder instead of Dark Sight, back in the days before 3rd job was out and Dark Sight actually became useful). Its 3rd job skill build is just wtp.

24 Assaulter
4 Pickpocket
3 MG
23 ME
10 BoT
18 Chakra <- yes, 18.

Apparently I got through 8x by my friend's friend vaccing Vikings and MEing them. Pleasant. I can't train at any of the mob spots CBs train at nowadays.

So anyway, could I possibly salvage this character and get it to 120 without spending a lot of money? I'd prefer to spend no NX and an amount of money I can gather together in a matter of a few weeks to a month, so 100m tops, not counting a ZHelm, which I can get for practically free. Keep in mind this is a side project; I don't really care about being godly, just strong enough so I'm not agonizing over the low numbers and slow training speed.

[Stereo]

Why is level 75~90 so boring? I just can't seem to stand the bordom:hothead:

I don't mind it much. Every 3 points in Avenger is a huge boost (went from 1800 to 2200 max on Nightshadows last levelup) and is leading to training actually getting faster as I get stronger.



On the other hand I'm also used to playing my Paladin which was taking 15-20hrs a level, so this character seems very quick.(I'm getting 20-22%/hr soloing at level 86)

[K!yO]

My hermit was hacked some time ago and was left with just a Z-helm and tobis .-.

My funds are decent, probably because I don't spend much, but my freinds are suggesting/begging me to bring him back. So with that I was just wondering what would be some good equips I could or should get that would hold me out to lvl 120



vvvvvvv Equips I lost vvvvvvv
18 Luk, 8 slot Katinas

12 atk SCG's

Clean Stompers

47 Atk Black Scarab

5 sets of Ilbis as well as steely

[kingdj333]

My hermit was hacked some time ago and was left with just a Z-helm and tobis .-.

My funds are decent, probably because I don't spend much, but my freinds are suggesting/begging me to bring him back. So with that I was just wondering what would be some good equips I could or should get that would hold me out to lvl 120



vvvvvvv Equips I lost vvvvvvv
18 Luk, 8 slot Katinas

12 atk SCG's

Clean Stompers

47 Atk Black Scarab

5 sets of Ilbis as well as steely

Dude that sucks!
How much mesos you got? :f6:

[K!yO]

as of right now i have around 180mil .-. most of the time my friends actually gave me stuff, or I got it out of MTS. I made those stompers after i had to go way out to a game stop in the middle of nowhere in Tennessee and found some set1 and set2 packs though I thought where only a myth :glitter: and I think I got those casters for some 90~92mil, thinks that's the most expensive thing I've ever bought, so I pretty much get off easy .-.

[Mejust]

I have a 97 CB that I made back in 2005 and quit years ago. I'm considering restarting it as a side project (mostly since my other side projects aren't nearly as high levelled as it). The problem is, it has all the flaws that you would expect an old character to have. Its base stats are 4 STR and 107 DEX, 4 INT, and however much LUK is left. Would it be possible to convert to a STR dit and scroll equips for STR, to make up for the high base DEX?

I quit it at 71 and my friend did a lot of the levelling work from 71-90, and I have no idea what happened with the skill build. It only has 18 Dark Sight, which my friend reset 15 points out of Disorder for (I went 18 Disorder instead of Dark Sight, back in the days before 3rd job was out and Dark Sight actually became useful). Its 3rd job skill build is just wtp.

24 Assaulter
4 Pickpocket
3 MG
23 ME
10 BoT
18 Chakra <- yes, 18.

Apparently I got through 8x by my friend's friend vaccing Vikings and MEing them. Pleasant. I can't train at any of the mob spots CBs train at nowadays.

So anyway, could I possibly salvage this character and get it to 120 without spending a lot of money? I'd prefer to spend no NX and an amount of money I can gather together in a matter of a few weeks to a month, so 100m tops, not counting a ZHelm, which I can get for practically free. Keep in mind this is a side project; I don't really care about being godly, just strong enough so I'm not agonizing over the low numbers and slow training speed.

Sorry to crush your hopes, but going Str will result in the same damage for the same amount of mesos. You're just going to be a bunch weaker than normal Luk bandits while you're trying to bring your Str up. So I recommend you don't.

As for the rest. DS is pretty much essential in 4th job, but you can just take some of the last 3rd job sp to max it. Your sp build is painful. The only thing you can do is ME train your way to a decent BoT level (18+). With that, you can train at typhons.

[Vathek]

I'm just wondering what the best way to build a shadower is. I'll be training solo for most of the time, probably till 14xish at Peak, then I dunno. Might stick there, might try to find a party, who the hell knows.

Don't think my equips are relevant, so far I have 1 fake 1 venom and 7 Bstep at level 122. I know to max bstep next (alternately take it to 21/20), but what's after that? I don't think I care about bossing at all since I have other characters to do that on.

[Dusk]

Sorry to crush your hopes, but going Str will result in the same damage for the same amount of mesos. You're just going to be a bunch weaker than normal Luk bandits while you're trying to bring your Str up. So I recommend you don't.

As for the rest. DS is pretty much essential in 4th job, but you can just take some of the last 3rd job sp to max it. Your sp build is painful. The only thing you can do is ME train your way to a decent BoT level (18+). With that, you can train at typhons.

How could I possibly be weaker than normal LUK? And I decided against continuing the CB, I made a new Bandit after finding a 16 stat STR Pao for 12.5m. It's a STR dit with 4 base STR 0_0

Thanks, but the ME training part killed my interest.

[Mejust]

Str bandits get less out of their W.Att than Luk bandits do. So Str bandits might have 9 Att more than Luk bandits, but Luk bandits get more damage per Att. The same situation as with Good ol' Str bandits, They might have more Att, but they get less out of it. In any case, this evens them out till the Str bandit gets the D.Khanjar.

And mind you, you can always ME train in the sense of Assaultering Goby houses and then ME'ing the Gobies. And I just did a little more research for you and found out that Birks should be good for you.

[WillDaSnail]

Should I wash my level 42 sin a bit?

Right now, I have 817 MP (no MP equips or whatever). Using the thief's min MP formula ((14 x level) + 148), I can have a minimum of 731 MP. Subtract the amount of MP I have to the minimum MP allowed, and divide the result by 12 (the amount of MP thieves lose when they wash a point out of MP), it comes to 6.75, which means I could wash up to 6 times. (add one more wash if I level up 1-2 times).

Note: I have not used any INT equips, or put AP into HP (but I will if I choose to do some washing).

[Shidoshi]

Should I wash my level 42 sin a bit?

Right now, I have 817 MP (no MP equips or whatever). Using the thief's min MP formula ((14 x level) + 148), I can have a minimum of 731 MP. Subtract the amount of MP I have to the minimum MP allowed, and divide the result by 12 (the amount of MP thieves lose when they wash a point out of MP), it comes to 6.75, which means I could wash up to 6 times. (add one more wash if I level up 1-2 times).

Note: I have not used any INT equips, or put AP into HP (but I will if I choose to do some washing).

I'd save that AP reset money for when you really need the HP. It doesn't make a difference when you do it, you don't get more hp from it.

[mrcowcow]

@ Will

Really, don't do it. There's nothing you need to survive at the moment. It's just not worth the money, and you won't be training at anything that can 2-hit k.o. you, as far as I know. I'm already in my 90's, training without any INT equips aside from pendant and ZHelm, and I can tell you, I haven't even HP washed myself, and don't find any need to do so at the moment.

[Hazzy]

Can someone correct me/eleaborate on my understanding of Shadowers and NightLords?

Night Lords using TT without SE aren't all that great. SE puts them second to only Gunslingers using Cannon though.
This intense 1v1 leaves them far behind when it comes to training, save sniping mobs. Although, I'm not sure how frequent/effective that is.

Shadowers lack powerful mob skills as well, so training's a bish for them. How do they fair in Bossing? SE and SI don't help them very much, so do they end up doing poorly in training and bossing, save for Godmode-Mist and Seduce Mules?


Not sure if this is an Amherst Question, or a Training center, but generally, how do Gunslingers and Hermits compare in 2nd job? 3rd? 4th?

[Shippo the Fox]

Can someone correct me/eleaborate on my understanding of Shadowers and NightLords?

Night Lords using TT without SE aren't all that great. SE puts them second to only Gunslingers using Cannon though.
This intense 1v1 leaves them far behind when it comes to training, save sniping mobs. Although, I'm not sure how frequent/effective that is.

Shadowers lack powerful mob skills as well, so training's a bish for them. How do they fair in Bossing? SE and SI don't help them very much, so do they end up doing poorly in training and bossing, save for Godmode-Mist and Seduce Mules?


Not sure if this is an Amherst Question, or a Training center, but generally, how do Gunslingers and Hermits compare in 2nd job? 3rd? 4th?

You don't know much about thieves then, but that is why you're asking. :f2:. TT without SE, they still are one of the top bossing DPS. With SE then they jump to #2. They train just fine because they kill 1 on 1 targets fast with TT + Venom.

Shadowers do NOT lack powerful mob skills, unless you think Boomerang Step is crappy. People say they may be the second fastest trainers behind Magicians due to taunt increasing the exp of their kills by 40%. For bossing, they lack DPS, but make excellent seducers.

[Hazzy]

You don't know much about thieves then, but that is why you're asking. :f2:. TT without SE, they still are one of the top bossing DPS. With SE then they jump to #2. They train just fine because they kill 1 on 1 targets fast with TT + Venom.

Shadowers do NOT lack powerful mob skills, unless you think Boomerang Step is crappy. People say they may be the second fastest trainers behind Magicians due to taunt increasing the exp of their kills by 40%. For bossing, they lack DPS, but make excellent seducers.

Does Taunt hit multiple mobs? I thought it hit one. Going up and hitting everything an extra time doesn't sound like it's made things faster... unless it takes 10 hits to kill that thing... xP

Ohwow, how did I space BS? I thought it hit two mobs for some reason...

In the 4th Job DPS Thread, A SEless TT was in the lower part, something like 70k. While Heros where 100k+, and DKs where in their 80s. :f1:

[Shippo the Fox]

Taunt hits 6 mobs max.

Which4th job DPS thread were you looking at, because if it was Devil's then I wouldn't use that.

[Hazzy]

His is a pain to read ;~;
I was using the stickied one with an Excel Spread sheet.
http://www.southperry.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7019

[Mejust]

On another note, to the extent of my knowledge, Taunt for shadowers hits 6 monsters while Taunt for NL's hits 1 monster.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Shippo the Fox]

Hits 6 for both classes.

[Hazzy]

ohey, me again.
I've considered starting my sin again, and have a few questions.

First, his pro stats.
http://i41.tinypic.com/ogzbt1.jpg

Am I going to regret 100 DEX, or are there pratical ways around it?
Where can he train? Any places in Masteria/Crimsonwood?
How long does it take to get to 63 these days? My friend says around two weeks. :f1:

[butterfλi]

Am I going to regret 100 DEX, or are there pratical ways around it?
Sleves. They should be the shit by now. If you can't make it to 110, cravens.

140 dex required; some 'cheap' dex things: 15 dex helm, 10 dex bottom, 8 dex earrings which leads to 133 dex. Get the other 7 dex from whereever you want, shoes, glove, necklace, eyewear, etc.

Also, http://www.southperry.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3191 (lol)

[mrcowcow]

Way to go on self promotion, butterfli. :P

To Hazzy: Whether you regret it or not is all based on personal preference. I started regretting 114 base dex after I got my ZHelm; now I need to get Luk earrings to replace my Dex ones. The only thing that I find discouraging about the high dex is that I don't hit high; in the end, it's all about if you enjoy your character or not. If you're willing to give it a shot, then go ahead! I've been working on my character since Bera came out, and I'm still going on, despite lack of motivation lately. At least you get nice looking (or so I think) equips, right? :3

Edit: Oh, and when (if) they fix BF, think about a Deputy Star if you get up to the level for the BF quest.

And Sleves are still a bit expensive compared to Cravens. Casters and Cravens are the best bet for your Dex.

[Derimed]

I am going to inherit a high level properly built NL. The equips are all very good but I wonder if I should replace the claw. It's a 61 att, 2 slot Casters. In case you're wondering, yes I have the funds to replace it, or finish it; not sure what's best though. At best it might become a 71 att casters... is that good enough, or does a godly Sleve still beat it?

Two, I imagine a character of that level must be pretty hard to train... About how much tedium per level should I expect if I try to get him up?

Three, he's got 5000 HP. Is that a fairly comfortable soloing HP level? Where should I be training this guy, Guardians?

Thanks.

[butterfλi]

I am going to inherit a high level properly built NL. The equips are all very good but I wonder if I should replace the claw. It's a 61 att, 2 slot Casters. In case you're wondering, yes I have the funds to replace it, or finish it; not sure what's best though. At best it might become a 71 att casters... is that good enough, or does a godly Sleve still beat it?

Two, I imagine a character of that level must be pretty hard to train... About how much tedium per level should I expect if I try to get him up?

Three, he's got 5000 HP. Is that a fairly comfortable soloing HP level? Where should I be training this guy, Guardians?

Thanks.


3) 5k is enough for HT so you're set there.
2) Genesis, skele, and a party is still best exp in gMS, afaik.
1) When I quit gMS, high 50's atk were the standard for claws and anything above 60 was pretty good. I don't know how much standards have changed since then but even a 63 is decent damage.

[Scaeva]

1 little question: Does a macro of Dark Sight, Assassinate and Boomerang Step really calcel Assassinates last hit? And would it be usefull for bossing? I forgot to try it in Tespia, even though I had to test the macros >_<

[Mejust]

A question about weapon attack speeds.

How many Attacks per minute would you have if;

You spam Double Stab with a Str dagger without Booster?
You spam Double Stab with a Str dagger with Booster?
You spam Double Stab with a Luk dagger without Booster?
You spam Double Stab with a Luk dagger with Booster?
You spam Savage Blow with a Str dagger without Booster?
You spam Savage Blow with a Str dagger with Booster?
You spam Savage Blow with a Luk dagger without Booster?
You spam Savage Blow with a Luk dagger with Booster?
You spam Lucky Seven with a Maple Claw without Booster?
You spam Lucky Seven with a Maple Claw with Booster?
You spam Lucky Seven with a Meba without Booster?
You spam Lucky Seven with a Meba with Booster?
You spam Lucky Seven with a Guardian without Booster?
You spam Lucky Seven with a Guardian with Booster?

I can't find this anywhere in the forums, but maybe there's a thread hiding somewhere which contains all the information?

[Shidoshi]

A question about weapon attack speeds.

How many Attacks per minute would you have if;

You spam Double Stab with a Str dagger without Booster?
You spam Double Stab with a Str dagger with Booster?
You spam Double Stab with a Luk dagger without Booster?
You spam Double Stab with a Luk dagger with Booster?
You spam Savage Blow with a Str dagger without Booster?
You spam Savage Blow with a Str dagger with Booster?
You spam Savage Blow with a Luk dagger without Booster?
You spam Savage Blow with a Luk dagger with Booster?
You spam Lucky Seven with a Maple Claw without Booster?
You spam Lucky Seven with a Maple Claw with Booster?
You spam Lucky Seven with a Meba without Booster?
You spam Lucky Seven with a Meba with Booster?
You spam Lucky Seven with a Guardian without Booster?
You spam Lucky Seven with a Guardian with Booster?

I can't find this anywhere in the forums, but maybe there's a thread hiding somewhere which contains all the information?

http://www.southperry.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3217

this thread is a reference on attack speeds, there is link in there to a post with each weapon's speed class.

[Kabanaw]

I've got a question about my 3rd job skill build.

So I'm sure that I'm gunna max avenger and BoT first, but what's the best way to do it?

Edit: Also, where should I cap my dex to (eventually) wear the level 120 daggers?

[Mejust]

I've got a question about my 3rd job skill build.

So I'm sure that I'm gunna max avenger and BoT first, but what's the best way to do it?

Edit: Also, where should I cap my dex to (eventually) wear the level 120 daggers?

*Points out that Avenger is a Hermit skill*

There are actually some worthwhile options for chief bandits these days, the first being maxing BoT while grinding at stuff like MP3, v/hoodoos and Windraiders to switch to typhons somewhere low in 8x. The second is getting 1 ME at lvl70 and bombing elder wraiths while maxing BoT. Don't be scared of money loss, it's been proven that you usually make money there. And yet again, you will go to Typhons somewhere in 8x.

The third and final worthwhile option would be maxing ME first. Again, you'll train at Elder Wraiths at first, but you'll have to move on to other monsters around 9x. I've heard that bombing Dragon Nests can get you from lvl90 to 120 within a week or two. You could also start maxing BoT immediately after you've maxed ME and start training at Typhons high 8x/low 9x.

Note about the Dex: cap wherever you are comfortable or use this simple equation:
Base Dex = Total needed Dex - Total Dex gotten from equips

[Kabanaw]

*Points out that Avenger is a Hermit skill*

There are actually some worthwhile options for chief bandits these days, the first being maxing BoT while grinding at stuff like MP3, v/hoodoos and Windraiders to switch to typhons somewhere low in 8x. The second is getting 1 ME at lvl70 and bombing elder wraiths while maxing BoT. Don't be scared of money loss, it's been proven that you usually make money there. And yet again, you will go to Typhons somewhere in 8x.

The third and final worthwhile option would be maxing ME first. Again, you'll train at Elder Wraiths at first, but you'll have to move on to other monsters around 9x. I've heard that bombing Dragon Nests can get you from lvl90 to 120 within a week or two. You could also start maxing BoT immediately after you've maxed ME and start training at Typhons high 8x/low 9x.

Note about the Dex: cap wherever you are comfortable or use this simple equation:
Base Dex = Total needed Dex - Total Dex gotten from equips

Oh. Doy. I meant Assaulter. I always get those two mixed up. :f3:

When should assaulter be maxed? I think I'm going to do BoT first, and then should I go ME or Assaulter?

I think my current build will be:

70: 1 Assaulter (looks cool and BoT doesn't look to useful at level one)
71: 3 BoT (3)
72: 3 BoT (6)
73: 1 BoT (7) (hits 3 monsters at this point), 2 chakra
74: 1 chakra(3), 1 MG, 1 ME
75: 3 BoT (10)
76: 3 BoT (13)
77: 3 BoT (16)
78: 3 BoT (19)
79: 3 BoT (22)
80: 3 BoT (25)
At this point since it will hit up to 6 monsters, I think I'll start maxing other skills. Is the extra 50% damage worth it?

Edit: Haha, I'm slow. MP3 is in signapore :f3:

Is Magatia training good?

[Mejust]

Oh. Doy. I meant Assaulter. I always get those two mixed up. :f3:

When should assaulter be maxed? I think I'm going to do BoT first, and then should I go ME or Assaulter?

I think my current build will be:

70: 1 Assaulter (looks cool and BoT doesn't look to useful at level one)
71: 3 BoT (3)
72: 3 BoT (6)
73: 1 BoT (7) (hits 3 monsters at this point), 2 chakra
74: 1 chakra(3), 1 MG, 1 ME
75: 3 BoT (10)
76: 3 BoT (13)
77: 3 BoT (16)
78: 3 BoT (19)
79: 3 BoT (22)
80: 3 BoT (25)
At this point since it will hit up to 6 monsters, I think I'll start maxing other skills. Is the extra 50% damage worth it?

Edit: Haha, I'm slow. MP3 is in signapore :f3:

Is Magatia training good?

After you've maxed BoT, you can do tons of things. You're going to be training at Typhons, me thinks. And you can train on Typhons all the way till 4th job. So it really just depends on what you want to do. I personally went with Assaulter first, so I could one hit weak monsters whenever I'm travelling, but you can do whatever you want, basically.

As for your build, I suggest you get BoT to 18 first, since it then will actually outdamage SB. At that point, I suggest getting a bit of MG. After you have a lvl of MG you're comfortable with, you max out BoT. It's your main training skill all the way till 4th job, so the earlier you max it, the more you get out of it. The 50% extra damage is really worth it.

And I don't know if Magatia is good Exp, since I'm too high level to train there with decent exp gains?

[Kabanaw]

After you've maxed BoT, you can do tons of things. You're going to be training at Typhons, me thinks. And you can train on Typhons all the way till 4th job. So it really just depends on what you want to do. I personally went with Assaulter first, so I could one hit weak monsters whenever I'm travelling, but you can do whatever you want, basically.

As for your build, I suggest you get BoT to 18 first, since it then will actually outdamage SB. At that point, I suggest getting a bit of MG. After you have a lvl of MG you're comfortable with, you max out BoT. It's your main training skill all the way till 4th job, so the earlier you max it, the more you get out of it. The 50% extra damage is really worth it.

And I don't know if Magatia is good Exp, since I'm too high level to train there with decent exp gains?

:O good point

And even though assaulter does 30% less damage than SB, does it still do more overall since it ignores weapon defense?

[Mejust]

:O good point

And even though assaulter does 30% less damage than SB, does it still do more overall since it ignores weapon defense?

That probably depends on how the Def affects SB. I guess Assaulter will outdamage SB on monsters with high Def.

But I think that SB will always out-DPM assaulter.

[mrcowcow]

Well, with the Naricain Pendant soon becoming untradeable, I pose to the thief community another question. Is a 50~60 mill investment worth the price, for 10 extra attack in about 20 levels for me? From what I see, it's well worth the investment, as upgrading 10 attack for a thief's claw is extremely expensive. Even with its costly price as a pendant, it's only about 5~6 mill per attack point, versus the tens of millions per attack point upgrade on a claw. What are your opinions on this matter?

[Mejust]

Well, with the Naricain Pendant soon becoming untradeable, I pose to the thief community another question. Is a 50~60 mill investment worth the price, for 10 extra attack in about 20 levels for me? From what I see, it's well worth the investment, as upgrading 10 attack for a thief's claw is extremely expensive. Even with its costly price as a pendant, it's only about 5~6 mill per attack point, versus the tens of millions per attack point upgrade on a claw. What are your opinions on this matter?

5~6 Mill per Att is dirt cheap, so I say do it.

[Scaeva]

I just went looking in the FM for some good equipment, and I decided to buy a Raven's Beak. The only thing is that it's STR and I'm a LUK CB. I do want use it, so should I:

-Convert to STR, 100% it at lvl80 and then upgrade to Dawn Raven's Beak at 90, to scroll.(Note; I need a Zhelm for this and I'm currently broken, but I'm getting 20k NX today to Gacha with, so if I choose this please tell me which gacha and what to do else.) This option also unlocks Khanjars, but those are really expensive.

-Stay LUK, upgrade it at lvl90 and then scroll, but use my 83/0 and 7 atk WG with reg DEX until then, or use the money I make from Gacha(see above) to get an "Ok" DT in until then.

Also, if I scroll it, what kind of scrolls? I'd love to make an endgame weapon out of it(currently =>115 watk) so should I try to do that?

[Kabanaw]

Another question, should I convert to str or just stay luk? The 15 att on a dragon khanjar makes it seem worth it.

[Shippo the Fox]

Stay Luk unless you can get yourself a 24~25+ atk Dragon Khanjar.

[Mejust]

Stay Luk unless you can get yourself a 24~25+ atk Dragon Khanjar.

I'd like to dispute this, but I can't.

Oh wait, you'll outdamage Luk dits eventaully, even if you have an unscrolled Khanjar ^_^.

[Stereo]

even if you have an unscrolled Khanjar ^_^.

Why would you use an unscrolled Khanjar over a 10-20 atk Maple Shield? As far as I know they only range 5-9 w.atk.

[Mejust]

Why would you use an unscrolled Khanjar over a 10-20 atk Maple Shield? As far as I know they only range 5-9 w.atk.

**If the Luk dit you're comparing with has no Att shield, or a bad one, the Str bandit will eventually outdamage the Luk bandit.

[Stereo]

Or if the luk bandit doesn't have a glove, or has no hat... the STR bandit wins again!

[Dusk]

Or if the luk bandit doesn't have a glove, or has no hat... the STR bandit wins again!

Eh, a LUK bandit without an attack shield v. a STR bandit with a clean Khanjar seems like a pretty fair comparison to me. The wide availability of Khanjars now makes them easier to scroll than Maple Shields and the like now.

STR dits are in theory stronger with equally scrolled equips.

[Takebacker]

Eh, a LUK bandit without an attack shield v. a STR bandit with a clean Khanjar seems like a pretty fair comparison to me. The wide availability of Khanjars now makes them easier to scroll than Maple Shields and the like now.

STR dits are in theory stronger with equally scrolled equips.

Unless maple shields drop next month, in which case we'll see their prices drop faster than naricain pendants did on the first day of release.

[Mejust]

That only applies for like a month, though. After that, prices willl go up to where they used to be.

[Kevo]

Here's just a random thing I'd like to ask.

When I'm training with a Thief at Skele, I sometimes see Skeles appearing to heal from Venom I think? What's happening here? Is it some glitch?

[Dusk]

Here's just a random thing I'd like to ask.

When I'm training with a Thief at Skele, I sometimes see Skeles appearing to heal from Venom I think? What's happening here? Is it some glitch?

It's a glitch. Negative numbers show up as healing. I think the function that displays damage over time only accepts signed 16-bit integers, which range from -32,768 to 32,767. Any numbers outside of that range will loop around. The monsters still take the correct amount of damage, though.

[Kim41]

I'm thinking of making a shadower, and I have a few random questions.

Does HP washing really help? o_O I always thought meso guard was good enough for CBs/shadowers, but I've seen a few threads with some really hp washed shadowers. Just want to know if I should invest in some int equips.

Is there a large difference between str and luk dits? I've heard that str dits are stronger if they have the right funding. If that's true, around how much funding are we talking about?

[Acim]

Weee. Just came back to Maple after a (to me) long break. I'm going to be playing on the weekends just a bit, if I don't have homework or things to do with friends (wtfimsocial?). I decided to continue my bandit because honestly, they seem the funnest. However, I have at least 50 characters. I have no idea which one I have my money and equips on. So, I'm poor and I have the crappiest equips (level 53, 90 DEX. Maplemas Hat, no-stat overall, no-stat shoes, unscrolled level 30 dagger and a suckish PAC). With Savage Blow, I can get around 175-250 per hit. Any suggestions on where to train/what to do until I gain back some money?

[Shippo the Fox]

I'm thinking of making a shadower, and I have a few random questions.

Does HP washing really help? o_O I always thought meso guard was good enough for CBs/shadowers, but I've seen a few threads with some really hp washed shadowers. Just want to know if I should invest in some int equips.

Is there a large difference between str and luk dits? I've heard that str dits are stronger if they have the right funding. If that's true, around how much funding are we talking about?

No need to HP wash for a Shadower, but if you have access to some INT equips then might as well equip them just in case you even feel the need too.


Unless you have yourself a really high atk Khanjar/Dragon Khanjar, stay Luk.

[Kim41]

Hmm, what about dexless shadowers? How would a dexless shadower with a godly blood dagger (or even really godly kebob?) and maple shield compare to a str one with a godly dragon kanzir/khanjar?

Sorry for all the questions. o.o I have done some searching, but of course everyone has different opinions. I couldn't find a thread with calculations comparing all these different builds.

[mrcowcow]

Weee. Just came back to Maple after a (to me) long break. I'm going to be playing on the weekends just a bit, if I don't have homework or things to do with friends (wtpimsocial?). I decided to continue my bandit because honestly, they seem the funnest. However, I have at least 50 characters. I have no idea which one I have my money and equips on. So, I'm poor and I have the crappiest equips (level 53, 90 DEX. Maplemas Hat, no-stat overall, no-stat shoes, unscrolled level 30 dagger and a suckish PAC). With Savage Blow, I can get around 175-250 per hit. Any suggestions on where to train/what to do until I gain back some money?

Well, I'm no expert on Bandits, as the last time I've played mine is a while back. Iirc, a good spot to earn money back in the days is Junior Yetis. Just a brief calculation as I don't know your exact stats, but averaging 175 and 250, you get 212.5. Multiply that by 6, and it's 1275, so I'd assume about 3 hits for a Junior Yeti. Since that'll consume 81 MP, and Jr. Yetis drop around 200 something mesos, it's a pretty fair gain, seeing that you don't get touch damage too much. Frankly, I'm not up to date on training spots. :x

[ZSaberLink]

Go and kill leprechauns for some initial cash whenever you need it. They drop about 800-1k mesos each, and they also often drop mesos when you first poke them as well (similar range for this). It's pretty easy to get a couple 100k, and if you stay there long enough, probably 1-2m.

[Silverwind]

Go and kill leprechauns for some initial cash whenever you need it. They drop about 800-1k mesos each, and they also often drop mesos when you first poke them as well (similar range for this). It's pretty easy to get a couple 100k, and if you stay there long enough, probably 1-2m.

Expanding on this, try to use normal attack for 'opening' the bags to summon the actual leprechauns. That saved MP adds up, especially w/ an MP hog like SB, even if it is 1/4 SB's saved.

[Acim]

I'll try that when Maple stops glitching up, thanks. :D Does anyone know if the Leprechauns get you more money per hour than the golem mini-dungeon? I've been training there. They drop about 500 mesos each. It seems like Leprechauns would be more crowded and spawn less, but they drop more and don't waste as many pots.

[Birdie]

I'll try that when Maple stops glitching up, thanks. :D Does anyone know if the Leprechauns get you more money per hour than the golem mini-dungeon? I've been training there. They drop about 500 mesos each. It seems like Leprechauns would be more crowded and spawn less, but they drop more and don't waste as many pots.

I went to leprechauns once using my gunslinger and it didn't seem like I was getting a lot of mesos, maybe I just didn't stay long enough. But I have spent a lot of time at fog with my fighter and I always remember making mesos training there and getting decent exp. It seemed like I found a glove atk scroll every level or two and at the end of every training session(1-2 hours), I would have a few equips to npc for extra mesos.

[Acim]

It seemed like I found a glove atk scroll every level or two and at the end of every training session(1-2 hours), I would have a few equips to npc for extra mesos.

Xenos! I haven't seen you in a while. I train at the mini-dungeon. The golems in there drop ETC items and money, but do they drop equips/scrolls too?

[Crazyman]

how many sets of star would i need for a full CWK pq

i have 1 soul star

lvl 121 if that helps

[kingdj333]

@ abovwe post:
You should bring atleast 4 to 5 sets... steelys are recommanded since you can carry 1.2k.

Anyways I deleted my crappy hermit (did 700 max at level 77) and remade another.... but I'm stuck at level 51 and LMPQ seems boring.. Any other training areas...
I made my old hermit when GOPQ was around...

[ZSaberLink]

LMPQ is ridiculously fast at 51. I gained 2.5 levels in maybe 3-4 hours (you obviously need to get in pretty consistently and have a good team to kill stuff). Just stick with it a little bit, and then move to voodoos/hoodoos or maybe raiders a bit later?

[Stereo]

Need to spend about a billion mesos, not sure how to go about it.

Items that could do with an upgrade:
Clean Zakum helm (16 luk / 14 dex)
18 dex Avenger
51 atk 5 dex Scarab
8 dex 2 slot Green Goni (Will 60% this after I find some scrolls, but I might want to buy a new shoe?)

I have 115 dex at the moment (not counting the claw), wearing luk PAC - I can switch to a 10 dex cape & go up to 125 dex.

I was thinking of going for about a 61-63 Casters, 70%/100% the Zakum helm (I only need +5 dex but 70%s are way cheaper), and move to a top+bottom (with whatever other dex help Zakum hat gives), but I'm not sure what sort of stats I should look for.

[MoxJr]

Need to spend about a billion mesos, not sure how to go about it.

Items that could do with an upgrade:
Clean Zakum helm (16 luk / 14 dex)
18 dex Avenger
51 atk 5 dex Scarab
8 dex 2 slot Green Goni (Will 60% this after I find some scrolls, but I might want to buy a new shoe?)

I have 115 dex at the moment (not counting the claw), wearing luk PAC - I can switch to a 10 dex cape & go up to 125 dex.

I was thinking of going for about a 61-63 Casters, 70%/100% the Zakum helm (I only need +5 dex but 70%s are way cheaper), and move to a top+bottom (with whatever other dex help Zakum hat gives), but I'm not sure what sort of stats I should look for.

Can you provide some more information?
- what is your current level?
- what kind of pendant are you wearing?
- stats on your glove and other gear?

The most significant way for you to gain dex to equip higher level claws would be to get a pendant or scroll your zhelm, although you may find yourself broke if you have bad luck due to pricey 70% helm dex scrolls now. I think HT pendant is generally better than Mark of Naricain until 14x.

I have always tried upgrading my dex equipment first before looking for claws. This way you can narrow your choices down to which claw you can equip/afford. Top/bottom sets are generally cheaper (meso per stat wise), but if you are female, you are going to have a really hard time finding well scrolled ones. I like avengers because they allow you to keep a lower base dex for future purposes, and I've seen many 25+ dex avengers in Bera for not too much.

Without knowing the rest of your gear, lvl, etc, I would say try to get a higher dex avenger, switch to 4/8-10dex cape or higher atk cape, scroll your zhelm and get a 6x atk craven (also cheap right now). Get facestompers shoes last because they are really expensive at the moment. Upgrade your glove too if it's below 13atk.

[Stereo]

Level 97 with a Deputy Badge, I have a 12 atk glove, 3 atk 8 luk cape, 10 dex earring (can't sell this so I'd have to pay full cost on a new one), with 60 base dex. + 18 or 19 sets of Steelies.

I will be level 100 soon but I can't wear a Craven right now.

I did notice Avengers are easier to find than top+bottom (I think I'd want lv.50 pants + lv.80 top) but it's also easier to add stats there since I can get 8-9 base stats with 14 slots. I may try scrolling my own.

13 atk gloves went very expensive, I looked around FM a couple days ago and saw ~250m. Which is +100 from my 12. I def. need to get up to about a 300-350mil claw before I'll consider doing that.

edit: oops, I need to convert about 100m to NX to buy wedding + inventory space. call it 900mil left.

[MoxJr]

Level 97 with a Deputy Badge, I have a 12 atk glove, 3 atk 8 luk cape, 10 dex earring (can't sell this so I'd have to pay full cost on a new one), with 60 base dex. + 18 or 19 sets of Steelies.

I will be level 100 soon but I can't wear a Craven right now.

I did notice Avengers are easier to find than top+bottom (I think I'd want lv.50 pants + lv.80 top) but it's also easier to add stats there since I can get 8-9 base stats with 14 slots. I may try scrolling my own.

13 atk gloves went very expensive, I looked around FM a couple days ago and saw ~250m. Which is +100 from my 12. I def. need to get up to about a 300-350mil claw before I'll consider doing that.

ok try this:
- level to 100
- get a low 6X atk craven (I saw a 61 atk in FM for about 250m last night)
- get a high 2X dex avenger for 200m+ or try scrolling your own top/bottom
- switch to dex cape
- get ilbis, sell steelys
- try not spending more than 500m scrolling your zhelm... goodluck
- make some other adjustments with remaining mesos

[RoxStarz]

how many sets of star would i need for a full CWK pq

i have 1 soul star

lvl 121 if that helps

It depends on how good your party is. With lvl 1 shadow star one set of ilbis will last five minutes. The final boss fight has an hour and half timer. Thats 18 sets of ilbis to fight to the buzzer. If you are concerned the fight will go the distance bring however many ilbis you have and then fill up the balance with icies. If you have a decent party you will never use the icies.

[kingdj333]

LMPQ..... ugh fine I guess..
but I need to find a smart party. because I'ma be 2x dropping while I'm doing the pq... anyone wanna take a swing with me?

Also during my 1st job, I accidentally pumped my cp into Disorber (level 7) and I only have level 7 dark sight, will this affect me later on?

[RoxStarz]

LMPQ..... ugh fine I guess..
but I need to find a smart party. because I'ma be 2x dropping while I'm doing the pq... anyone wanna take a swing with me?

Also during my 1st job, I accidentally pumped my cp into Disorber (level 7) and I only have level 7 dark sight, will this affect me later on?

I did the same thing, accidentally put points into disorder. When I got to lvl 120 I bought an ability point reset or two and fixed it. You can max every third job skill except shadow meso (or whatever its called, the skill that throws mesos) and have enough ability points left over to max dark sight.

Max Dark sight is essential in my opinion for fourth job because it allows you to do things like solo pap. If you lose your speed boost everytime you dark sighted it would be very difficult to beat the 2nd form of pap. Not to mention that walking around with max dark sight is very convenient.

[GummyBear]

IMO, anytime I'd build a sin, I'll go max darksight first job and leave the +1acc/+1avoid skill at 10.

[RoxStarz]

Ya, thats a good idea to max dark site in first job. But when I build my sin every single guide out there told you to max Nimble Feet and leave Dark Sight at 10. How was I supposed to know any different?

[Stereo]

I got Dark Sight instead of maxing Booster at the end of 2nd job because of stupid 1st job guides... I've never needed the extra acc that Nimble Body gives and I don't think 10 avoid does much.

I think I'll finish up booster (or at least 180 seconds) at the end of 3rd, since Shadow Meso/Shadow Web don't need all 31 points.


I use Dark Sight more than Drain, so yeah... I dunno how the idea that it's not useful came to be.

[Kabanaw]

Quick question. Is a range of 411 ~ 686 low for a lvl 57 bandit?

[Mejust]

Quick question. Is a range of 411 ~ 686 low for a lvl 57 bandit?

Not really.

[Dusk]

Quick question. Is a range of 411 ~ 686 low for a lvl 57 bandit?

My 50 STR bandit has a max range of ~900 without an attack shield, so probably ._.

[kingdj333]

Quick question. Is a range of 411 ~ 686 low for a lvl 57 bandit?

your damage really depends on your fundings.... If you think it's too low than find a way to upgrade it...
I'd say its average but not really there...

Anyone have a 50+ skanda? I really need one.

[Kabanaw]

My 50 STR bandit has a max range of ~900 without an attack shield, so probably ._.

Well, I have no attack shield either, but I'm also using a 100%'d dagger, so that probably has something to do with it.

And my dex is pretty high. I think once I get to 4th i might reset some.

[Mejust]

At level 57, your Dex should be between 90 or 100. Neither is high. Your damage range is (probably) weak because you're; A) a Str bandit B) you probably don't have an Att WG C) using a 100%'ed dagger.

[Kabanaw]

At level 57, your Dex should be between 90 or 100. Neither is high. Your damage range is (probably) weak because you're; A) a Str bandit B) you probably don't have an Att WG C) using a 100%'ed dagger.

Oh, look at that. I figure I won't waste the money to buy a scrolled/scroll a good dagger since I'll only be using it for 14 levels, until I can equip my Asura, which I'll 40% :D

Now my only dillema is about my dex again. I'm thinking I'll cap it at 120 for the time being, and once I get better equips and MW I can start resetting it back into luk. I'm fine with lower damage, my main is an Arch Mage after all :o