Some NW mechanics questions [Archive]

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Sinnuendo

2009-07-27, 07:03 AM

Two days left and I still don't know some of this stuff. :/

1. Take a look at some NW videos in which they use Vampire. It seems to be 4 separate hits (it knocks back monster way more than say, Strafe). Does this mean that WDEF would kick in for all four hits?

2. Is Poison Sling's poison non-elemental (to fit the Dark theme) or Poison-element?

3. How the hell am I supposed to mist skeles at say, level 90 without dumping tons of AP into HP (or washing, which I can't do) AND having an HB mule?

MasPan

2009-07-27, 07:15 AM

Two days left and I still don't know some of this stuff. :/

1. Take a look at some NW videos in which they use Vampire. It seems to be 4 separate hits (it knocks back monster way more than say, Strafe). Does this mean that WDEF would kick in for all four hits?

2. Is Poison Sling's poison non-elemental (to fit the Dark theme) or Poison-element?

3. How the hell am I supposed to mist skeles at say, level 90 without dumping tons of AP into HP (or washing, which I can't do) AND having an HB mule?

1. Dunno
2. Seperate element
3. You do have 70 extra AP.

Devil

2009-07-27, 11:00 AM

Two days left and I still don't know some of this stuff. :/

1. Take a look at some NW videos in which they use Vampire. It seems to be 4 separate hits (it knocks back monster way more than say, Strafe). Does this mean that WDEF would kick in for all four hits?

WDef always kicks in the same way with every skill, unless a skill ignores wdef (Assaulter / Sacrifice).

Example with 1000 wdef, 2000 avg base damage = 2000-500 (from wdef)= 1500 effective avg dmg range after wdef:
- 6-hit SavageBlow (6*80%) = 480% => 6*0.8*1500 = 7200 damage per Savage Blow
- (Hypotecial) 1-hit SavageBlow (1*480%) = 480% => 1*4.8*1500 = 7200 damage per Savage Blow

So it doesn't matter how many hits an attack is, the wdef is always calculated before the skill damage percentage is applied.
So it doesn't matter if a skill is 1 or 4 or 6 hits. Some people think it matters but it doesn't. :)

Edit: Unless the damage done is lower then the wdef penalty itself, but that's not the case in most situations... :P

2. Is Poison Sling's poison non-elemental (to fit the Dark theme) or Poison-element?

There are 3 Poisons in Maple (all stackable) Venom / Poison elements:
- Poison Mist Poison damage
- Poison Sling Poison damage
- Venomous Star/Stab Poison damage
(and then offcourse there are the Ice and Fire DOT effects, which also separately stack).

3. How the hell am I supposed to mist skeles at say, level 90 without dumping tons of AP into HP (or washing, which I can't do) AND having an HB mule?

Noone says you're SUPPOSED to poison Skelegons at lvl90, there are other monsters! :)Answers in BOLD

Russt

2009-07-27, 11:10 AM

Number two is asking if the actual hit caused by Poison Sling has an elemental attribute, I think. If there is a hit in the first place, which I'm not clear on either.

Damage over time effects are always neutral element (more precisely, they are not affected by elemental attributes).

Arrg

2009-07-27, 11:18 AM

Poison sling either has no element or it has its own element.
I can poison anything and everything excluding bosses.

Tykian

2009-07-27, 11:28 AM

Just saying, by the time you have Poison Sling, you'd have Haste and Flash Jump maxed. If you can't get away from a Skelegon, you're doing it horribly, HORRIBLY wrong.

Or make a Buccaneer/Striker and never take damage again.

Or not.

Loose

2009-07-27, 11:40 AM

Would I be able to "Poison" Crimson Guardians with Poison Sling?

Kalovale

2009-07-27, 11:53 AM

How many seconds does it take to bring a mob from full HP to 1?

Dusk

2009-07-27, 11:57 AM

How many seconds does it take to bring a mob from full HP to 1?

70-(points in skill)

Kalovale

2009-07-27, 12:27 PM

70-(points in skill)

So 30 secs at max lvl, and I can bring a mob down to 1 HP with lvl 1 sling?

I also have a slight dilemma regarding skills.

Since we only have 120 SPs for 2nd job and 110 of which already went to 'apparent' skills: mastery, critical, haste, FJ, and Vampire which leaves me with 10 SPs for either Sudden Attack or Booster. This leaves me with 2 possible solutions:

- Having lvl 1 Sudden Attack just for the 'fun' and convenience of attacking without having to cancel ds, lvl 9 booster.
- Getting both and substitute missing SPs with a combined sacrifice of Alchemist and Avenger, probably getting lvl 10~13 Alchemist and 27~30 Avenger.

Dusk

2009-07-27, 12:37 PM

So 30 secs at max lvl
It maxes at 30. 70-30 = 40 seconds

and I can bring a mob down to 1 HP with lvl 1 sling?
level 1 Sling only lasts 4 seconds, so sure, if you want to poison the mob ceiling(69/4) = 18 times.

Since we only have 120 SPs for 2nd job and 110 of which already went to 'apparent' skills: mastery, critical, haste, FJ, and Vampire which leaves me with 10 SPs for either Sudden Attack or Booster. This leaves me with 2 possible solutions:

- Having lvl 1 Sudden Attack just for the 'fun' and convenience of attacking without having to cancel ds, lvl 9 booster.
- Getting both and substitute missing SPs with a combined sacrifice of Alchemist and Avenger, probably getting lvl 10~13 Alchemist and 27~30 Avenger.
You get 121 SP. I'd leave Booster at 10. WHY WOULD YOU DROP ALCHEMIST. DON'T DO IT.

Sinnuendo

2009-07-27, 12:39 PM

So 30 secs at max lvl, and I can bring a mob down to 1 HP with lvl 1 sling?

I also have a slight dilemma regarding skills.

Since we only have 120 SPs for 2nd job and 110 of which already went to 'apparent' skills: mastery, critical, haste, FJ, and Vampire which leaves me with 10 SPs for either Sudden Attack or Booster. This leaves me with 2 possible solutions:

- Having lvl 1 Sudden Attack just for the 'fun' and convenience of attacking without having to cancel ds, lvl 9 booster.
- Getting both and substitute missing SPs with a combined sacrifice of Alchemist and Avenger, probably getting lvl 10~13 Alchemist and 27~30 Avenger.

Max level does 1/40 of a monster's HP each second, so 40 seconds.

It's actually 121, so even with 1 SA you'd end up with 10 Booster.

Alchemist is almost worthless in GMS besides 9.6 minute Warrior Elixers and 12 minute apples (our best NLC pots are % based, which Alchemist doesn't affect). It's probably still better than Avenger though.

@ other people: K, thanks. I was wondering most about the Poison thing, since Poison-immune monsters aren't poisonable (AFAIK), and Fire-immune aren't burnable (through Curtain).

The thing about the Haste/FJ thing is that I only have FJ experience from private servers (where you pretty much have invincibility anyway because of your unrealistically high HP/MP after a few rebirths). While I'd have an extra 40 levels to practice not jumping into stuff, I'd still like to survive a hit from a skele. Either way I can probably just dump 50 AP into HP from 80 to 90 or something.

@ Devil: What I mean is, I KNOW that it does that for say, Strafe, SB, or Barrage. However, don't they only KB once? Vampire does it 4 separate times (and has 4 chances to drain per monster), which leads me to think the DEF formula would hurt it more (which would make training on Windraiders with Vampire nearly impossible unless you're hitting a LOT of crits, because they'd end up taking what, 10 damage at the most from a non-crit with max Vamp and Mastery).

Edit: Plus, the fact that Vampire has separate chances to drain makes me think it's separate hits even more; Drain is 100% chance to drain no matter what level it is.

Tykian

2009-07-27, 12:41 PM

Kalo, dropping Alchemist could be JUST ABOUT the worst decision you could make.

In most cases, I would question the use of Sudden Attack all together, seeing as that attack is going to be pitiful damage-wise.

Edit for above: It appears from videos that you are correct, assuming this, I'd say that maybe Windraiders isn't a viable place for Vampire, hmm?

Another for the above: If you think you're going to actually get enough HP/MP on a Night Walker to make Honsters/Mana Bulls/Ginger whatevers worth it, you're sadly mistaken. When I say worth it though, I mean, more recovery for your buck, e. g. 2250 hp for 1500. You'd have to have at least 6720 total hp to move over to Honsters at that rate.

Sinnuendo

2009-07-27, 01:05 PM

Kalo, dropping Alchemist could be JUST ABOUT the worst decision you could make.

In most cases, I would question the use of Sudden Attack all together, seeing as that attack is going to be pitiful damage-wise.

Edit for above: It appears from videos that you are correct, assuming this, I'd say that maybe Windraiders isn't a viable place for Vampire, hmm?

Another for the above: If you think you're going to actually get enough HP/MP on a Night Walker to make Honsters/Mana Bulls/Ginger whatevers worth it, you're sadly mistaken. When I say worth it though, I mean, more recovery for your buck, e. g. 2250 hp for 1500. You'd have to have at least 6720 total hp to move over to Honsters at that rate.

Ouch. I was planning to max Alch right after SP, anyway, but yeah. :/

Also, yeah, I was planning on spending 45 - 75 in Magatia (which won't be as crowded as it is in KMS anyway because of CWK). So yeah, I was just making sure. Either way, WRs could be viable with L7 but it probably wouldn't be as good as mobbing with Vamp.

Tykian

2009-07-27, 01:09 PM

I know i'm going to be mobbing Roids with mine, and when you WOULD be doing WR's, I would suggest Trying maybe Homunculus? I find mobbing there with my Marauder to be quite effective, even though the hp/exp ratio was much poorer.

Punch

2009-07-27, 02:18 PM

Sucks that Vampire doesn't hit in back of you or under you though...
It's just a better Avenger, really...

EmuAlert

2009-07-27, 03:06 PM

Does anyone know if you can use Sling without a claw? An emergency rescue tube could really help with HP. Still, though, by level 90, you'd have about 2.4k HP base, so with some decent HP equips you could probably get up to the 2.8k or so that you need to survive newties. Sorry to tell you, but you're never going to be able to survive skeles until you're almost level 120.

Oh, and for the skill build, I think the most accepted thing is to leave Booster at 10 and Sudden Attack at 1. Even when maxed, Sudden Attack actually slow down your DPM because of the cast time of Darksight.

modular

2009-07-27, 03:44 PM

Oh, and for the skill build, I think the most accepted thing is to leave Booster at 10 and Sudden Attack at 1. Even when maxed, Sudden Attack actually slow down your DPM because of the cast time of Darksight.

with 10 SA dps is improved by a whopping ~30% of your damage range, or about 2% of total dps without sudden attack. worth it? bah.

for below: http://www.southperry.net/forums/showthread.php?t=13174
thinking the use of apples affects this type of calculation is a logical fallacy. =/ 1500% of your damage range is still 1500% whether your range is 1.5k-3k or 3k-6k.

Arrg

2009-07-27, 04:13 PM

with 10 SA dps is improved by a whopping ~30% of your damage range, or about 2% of total dps without sudden attack. worth it? bah.

Say if you were able to do 20/20/20 with SP doing 10/10/10.
SA would bump that up to 26k/26k/26k and 16.9/16.9/16.9 The effects would be far greater if apples and SE were added into the equation.

Devil

2009-07-27, 07:24 PM

Does anyone know if you can use Sling without a claw? Just checked skill.wz, and it says psling requires weapon(class) 47, which is a claw.

So yeah, you need to wear a claw to be able to use that skill.

Punch

2009-07-27, 07:39 PM

Is leaving Booster at 10 such a good idea? Wouldn't that slow you down by alot if you were to use MACRO, putting all yours buffs into one or two macros?

Sinnuendo

2009-07-27, 07:49 PM

Is leaving Booster at 10 such a good idea? Wouldn't that slow you down by alot if you were to use MACRO, putting all yours buffs into one or two macros?

Not really considering the fact that they only have 3 buffs (not including Dark Sight). Macroing NW buffs is really sorta stupid.

Not to mention all their other skills are much, much better than having maxed booster (besides Sprite, but you can't use 1st Job SP on 2nd Job Skills).

Kalovale

2009-07-27, 08:39 PM

Sinnuendo

2009-07-27, 08:51 PM

How long exactly is this interval? Guessing 1 second You're right.
How large is this fraction? Guessing 1/40 or 2.5% 1/(70-SkillLevel). At max, it's 1/(70-30), so 1/40 HP every second; at level 1, it's 1/(70-1), so 1/69 HP per second
How long does this state last? Guessing over 40 seconds The duration in the table; at level 1, it lasts 4 seconds, and at max, it lasts 40

In the table:
Impact damage is how much damage the initial explosion does, similar to the initial hit of Poison Mist and Fire Curtain.
Probability is how likely a monster is to be poisoned each second it's in the cloud. You're almost guaranteed to poison any monster that enters the cloud no matter what the probability is.
Duration is how long the monsters are poisoned for, and MAYBE how long the cloud is active. This is important because at lower levels, not only does the poison do less damage per tick, but the duration of the DoT is low (for example, level 1 will do a total of 4/69 damage compared to max which will do 39.999.../40, since poison can't kill).

Tykian

2009-07-27, 08:52 PM

Remember, the only time sling can kill, is with impact damage.

Kalovale

2009-07-28, 03:37 AM

In the table:
Impact damage is how much damage the initial explosion does, similar to the initial hit of Poison Mist and Fire Curtain.
Probability is how likely a monster is to be poisoned each second it's in the cloud. You're almost guaranteed to poison any monster that enters the cloud no matter what the probability is.
Duration is how long the monsters are poisoned for, and MAYBE how long the cloud is active. This is important because at lower levels, not only does the poison do less damage per tick, but the duration of the DoT is low (for example, level 1 will do a total of 4/69 damage compared to max which will do 39.999.../40, since poison can't kill).

The duration is really what bothers me, that's why I needed to make a whole fuss in the previous post.
To sum up, I need to know what meaning that 40-second duration is carrying. If it's both the fog screen's duration AND the poisoned effect's duration (starting the moment the monster taking % dmg), it could be quite a problem to have low level Poison Sling, as it takes more than 1 sling to kill, specifically:
- Lvl 1: 4/69*x dmg per sling ~> 14~15 slings per kill
- Lvl 2: 4/68*x dmg per sling ~> still 14~15
- Lvl 25: 36/45*x dmg per sling ~> 2 slings per kill
- Lvl 30: 40/40*x dmg per sling ~> 1 sling per kill.

A conclusion deriving from mentioned theory says you can only 1hit kill with Sling when it's maxed. Anything before that, even lvl 29 Sling isn't ANYWHERE near as efficient, unless Sling's impact dmg is strong enough to cover a Newtie's 1/41*x HP (which is left after 40/41 has been taken away).

Tykian

2009-07-28, 03:44 AM

Well, I assure you, Mist is useful before 30, and knowing Nexon, Sling works exactly the same once deployed.

Judging by my memories of boomers, I'd say that the duration set in that table is the cloud itself, and not the duration of the poison. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that poison that affects the character last's exactly as long, as I know it lasts for a long time, but it DOES wear off.

Sinnuendo

2009-07-28, 06:14 AM

The duration is really what bothers me, that's why I needed to make a whole fuss in the previous post.
To sum up, I need to know what meaning that 40-second duration is carrying. If it's both the fog screen's duration AND the poisoned effect's duration (starting the moment the monster taking % dmg), it could be quite a problem to have low level Poison Sling, as it takes more than 1 sling to kill, specifically:
- Lvl 1: 4/69*x dmg per sling ~> 14~15 slings per kill
- Lvl 2: 4/68*x dmg per sling ~> still 14~15
- Lvl 25: 36/45*x dmg per sling ~> 2 slings per kill
- Lvl 30: 40/40*x dmg per sling ~> 1 sling per kill.

A conclusion deriving from mentioned theory says you can only 1hit kill with Sling when it's maxed. Anything before that, even lvl 29 Sling isn't ANYWHERE near as efficient, unless Sling's impact dmg is strong enough to cover a Newtie's 1/41*x HP (which is left after 40/41 has been taken away).

Which is why you use L7 or Vampire to clean up (since they'd be stronger than Sling anyway).

Level 16 is usually the bare minimum level that Poison skills become useful (besides Venom, since it's insanely strong even at level 1). At level 16, you'd have to double poison and then clean up, so you'd probably have to dual channel (which you should do anyway for best exp gain).

Edit: In fact, most F/P mages cap their poisons at level 28, which is 95% HP poison (which is still enough to 1HKO after poison usually; DTs will be left with 1600 HP, Squids would have 2300 HP, Rissel Squids would have 2450 HP, etc, so most of these you could finish with one L7 or maybe one or two vamps).

Also, Sharks should be a more viable option for NWs than F/P's mainly due to the fact that there's no risk of having MG dispelled. Knowing this, I'm probably gonna farm the hell out of SE20 and Green Books for my Sniper.

Arrg

2009-07-28, 06:46 AM

Which is why you use L7 or Vampire to clean up (since they'd be stronger than Sling anyway).
I used sling to clean up + further poison at 73~103 in squids, I refused to recharge

Level 16 is usually the bare minimum level that Poison skills become useful (besides Venom, since it's insanely strong even at level 1). At level 16, you'd have to double poison and then clean up, so you'd probably have to dual channel (which you should do anyway for best exp gain).

I used it at level 10

Edit: In fact, most F/P mages cap their poisons at level 28, which is 95% HP poison (which is still enough to 1HKO after poison usually; DTs will be left with 1600 HP, Squids would have 2300 HP, Rissel Squids would have 2450 HP, etc, so most of these you could finish with one L7 or maybe one or two vamps).
I maxed it, because I like continuous poison instead of focusing on killing off with different skills
Also, Sharks should be a more viable option for NWs than F/P's mainly due to the fact that there's no risk of having MG dispelled. Knowing this, I'm probably gonna farm the hell out of SE20 and Green Books for my Sniper.
Squids is far faster, due to haste never being dispelled, and fj is actually pretty useful, although it is underwater

Replies in bold

Sinnuendo

2009-07-28, 08:03 AM

Edit: In fact, most F/P mages cap their poisons at level 28, which is 95% HP poison (which is still enough to 1HKO after poison usually; DTs will be left with 1600 HP, Squids would have 2300 HP, Rissel Squids would have 2450 HP, etc, so most of these you could finish with one L7 or maybe one or two vamps).
I maxed it, because I like continuous poison instead of focusing on killing off with different skills

Oh, I definitely recommend maxing it over 28, I'm just saying that 28/29 Poison isn't much less efficient than max.

Really, anything over 28 is fine, but there's really no point in not maxing Sling since the two extra points would go to something useless like Sudden Attack.

modular

2009-07-28, 11:38 AM

A conclusion deriving from mentioned theory says you can only 1hit kill with Sling when it's maxed. Anything before that, even lvl 29 Sling isn't ANYWHERE near as efficient, unless Sling's impact dmg is strong enough to cover a Newtie's 1/41*x HP (which is left after 40/41 has been taken away).

as long as monsters remain in the cloud they have a chance of being poisoned. including repoisoning. once you get about 16-22 sling you should see monsters w/ 1 hp left quite often. by 28, sling should leave 1hp over 99% of the time. however, this is where range becomes an issue, because sling has crap range. so the chance of repoison goes down unless you place a lot of slings. with things that dont move, repoison isnt an issue because it WILL happen and would make sling useful much earlier. newts at 73 w/ 10 sling could be possible, but it might still suck for a couple lvls.

Sinnuendo

2009-07-28, 11:53 AM

as long as monsters remain in the cloud they have a chance of being poisoned. including repoisoning. once you get about 16-22 sling you should see monsters w/ 1 hp left quite often. by 28, sling should leave 1hp over 99% of the time. however, this is where range becomes an issue, because sling has crap range. so the chance of repoison goes down unless you place a lot of slings. with things that dont move, repoison isnt an issue because it WILL happen and would make sling useful much earlier. newts at 73 w/ 10 sling could be possible, but it might still suck for a couple lvls.

If Sling's throwing mechanics work like Grenade's then it'll work incredibly well in Aqua; just swim around above the monsters, spamming the sling key, then go down to another plat and do it again.

Dusk

2009-07-28, 12:09 PM

If Sling's throwing mechanics work like Grenade's then it'll work incredibly well in Aqua; just swim around above the monsters, spamming the sling key, then go down to another plat and do it again.

Grenade doesn't work well in Aqua, it just looks cool.

EmuAlert

2009-07-28, 12:33 PM

Grenade doesn't work well in Aqua, it just looks cool.

If you just tap the key, the bomb is simply dropped onto the enemies. Sure, it wouldn't be good for hitting squids a few platforms over, but it would be VERY easy to hit squids below you without putting yourself in danger. Not to mention that you can casually mist really distant platforms: you can drop a bomb from the top left and hit squids two-thirds of the way down the map.

Kalovale

2009-07-29, 02:19 AM

Does re-poisoning happen each time the monster gets 'hit' by the cloud? Or does it require the monster to be clean of poison? If the first theory is the case, then poisoning will be much much easier. If else.. well.. not too bad, I guess. :ohno:

Vernacular

2009-07-29, 02:36 AM

Grenade doesn't work well in Aqua, it just looks cool.

Sadly enough,
slinging squids was amazing EXP for DoctorPoke 7x-9x
:o

modular

2009-07-29, 11:10 AM

Does re-poisoning happen each time the monster gets 'hit' by the cloud?

yes.
once per second the cloud has an x% chance of poisoning (skill level based). the only requirement is that the monster have > 1 hp. cant poison at 1, and once you get a high level skill a suspiciously unpoisoned monster is an easy way to tell it needs to die.

Shidoshi

2009-07-29, 11:50 AM

yes.
once per second the cloud has an x% chance of poisoning (skill level based). the only requirement is that the monster have > 1 hp. cant poison at 1, and once you get a high level skill a suspiciously unpoisoned monster is an easy way to tell it needs to die.

1 hp monsters can still be poisoned. They just stay at 1 hp.

The thing that happens is, when a poisoned monsters reaches 1hp they unpoison, but they can still be repoisoned.

GummyBear

2009-07-30, 12:53 AM

Minus the impact damage, imo, sling should be left at around early 2x. Getting more than that is just icing.

Arrg

2009-07-30, 04:11 AM

Sadly enough,
slinging squids was amazing EXP for DoctorPoke 7x-9x
:o

7x-100 took like a week :goggle:

EmuAlert

2009-08-02, 01:42 AM

Am I missing something with Sudden Attack? I always get a lower DPS, not the 2% increase mentioned here (http://www.southperry.net/forums/showthread.php?t=13174)

According to the Attack Speed Reference, Darksight take 240 ms (miliseconds) to cast, and maxed out speed TT/L7 takes 600 ms to cast.

with Sudden Attack, it takes 840 ms to cast a 130% damage attack, or 130/840 = 0.1548 percent damage per ms, or 154.8% damage per second.

without Sudden Attack, it takes 600 ms to cast a 100% damage attack, or 100/600 = .1666 percent damage per ms, or 166.6% damage per second.

By "percent damage" I mean damage done in a regular TT (or L7). So 150% damage per second means you do the damage of 1.5 Triple Throws in one second. Shadow Partner, onyx apples, and other specific damage boosts were ignored since Sudden Attack multiplies your regular damage after those sorts of boosts (right?).

So yeah, what am I doing wrong?

Sinnuendo

2009-08-02, 09:26 AM

MasPan

2009-08-02, 09:49 AM

I would like to note that having sudden attack is a good idea for the Boss/Mu Lung PQs, in that you can DS after each boss while starting the next fight for a minor damage improvement. Not significant, but it can't hurt.

EmuAlert

2009-08-02, 11:27 AM

The 2% increase is only with max TT and SP. Everything else gets reduced DPS.

But I thought that Sudden Attack bonus was applied after TT, and SP is multiplicative, so it's interchangeable with Sudden Attack because of order of operations. Though I have been hearing a bit SP being unnaturally boosted by Sudden Attack (sorta like Crit + SE), is this true?

Sinnuendo

2009-08-02, 03:54 PM

Arrg

2009-08-02, 11:18 PM

But I thought that Sudden Attack bonus was applied after TT, and SP is multiplicative, so it's interchangeable with Sudden Attack because of order of operations. Though I have been hearing a bit SP being unnaturally boosted by Sudden Attack (sorta like Crit + SE), is this true?

Sudden attack works like this:
original damage without darksight would be 10k 10k 10k 5k 5k 5k
damage with darksight before casting would be 13k 13k 13k 8.45k 8.45k 8.45k
SP will do 65% of YOUR TT damage instead of just half of it.

I would like to note that having sudden attack is a good idea for the Boss/Mu Lung PQs, in that you can DS after each boss while starting the next fight for a minor damage improvement. Not significant, but it can't hurt.

Pretty much the only place I used it, except for pap's 1st body (when it hides) and in 2nd body when you're trying to evade his dmg by going into darksight. It could be used at newties snipe spot when you're waiting for it to spawn, as well.
Whoever has a 100+ NW with sudden attack should try ACTUAL testing with ds then TT in a macro.

Silver_ice

2009-09-03, 04:39 PM

Shady

2009-09-03, 05:08 PM

if uw ant. drop avenger. put it only to like 21 when it hits 6 monsters. the rest leaves u with around 9 SP for whatever skill you need. and once you hit 120 ( or leech there anyway) it doesnt matter cause avenger is pretty pathetic for bossing and your done training anyway.

I was thinking of dropping several skills.

Perhaps:
- lv 19 mastery
- lv28 poison bomb
- no 1 point in shadow web

This will result 5 points in Vanish. 5 more from Vanish or Avenger.
Wait-- does Venom work with Vampire?
If yes, drop Avenger for sure?
If no, drop Vampire to lv16 and Avenger to lv29 or steal a point from Alchemist or booster?

Silver_ice

2009-09-03, 07:43 PM

mastery is fine for 19. unless ur OCD and want 20 jus cause it looks pretty. avenger is quite useless once you reach the end of your life (120) and people can make do with a max TT instead.

shadow web is completely useless but bomb might be worth something. it works at himes so who knows.

i left avenger at 21
maxed fj, alchemist, TT, bomb. id probly max vampire instead of vanish cause vanish is an ok skill but it seems a hassle to remember to cast ds each time you want a small boost in power.

GummyBear

2009-09-03, 08:24 PM

IMO, bombs are good at early stages for levelling, but after that, meh.

At level 120, avenger > bomb (IMO). Also, at that level, there isnt much use in vanish. Muling dojo is only a temporary thing. Once you got your attack belt, that's the end of it.

Then again, at level 120, your cygnus is pretty much done for. All you can do (productively) is to hunt area bosses. Otherwise, you can pap/pianus (and maybe zakum) and that's pretty much it. It is very situational when you can use vanish. Tho, if you're looking for max damage build, then vanish at the cost of 21 avenger is the way to go. Max mastery coz it looks purtey with 1200/1000 stars.

Shady

2009-09-04, 06:40 AM

Wait-- does Venom work with Vampire?
The answer can make all the difference, I think.
So what's the answer? :o

Devil

2009-09-04, 07:43 AM

The answer can make all the difference, I think.
So what's the answer? :oAll attacks work with Venom, even Poison Sling. You can throw 1 bomb and trigger 2 Venoms at once! :P

Shady

2009-09-04, 12:31 PM

All attacks work with Venom, even Poison Sling. You can throw 1 bomb and trigger 2 Venoms at once! :PEvil :3

So Avenger is pointless, I knew it.

Kalovale

2009-09-05, 05:40 AM

yes.
once per second the cloud has an x% chance of poisoning (skill level based). the only requirement is that the monster have > 1 hp. cant poison at 1, and once you get a high level skill a suspiciously unpoisoned monster is an easy way to tell it needs to die.

Ooh, thanks. I forgot to check this thread in a long time, lol.
Then given a cloud that lasts long enough, monsters inside it will keep the poisoned state refreshed each second, which practically doubles the poisoning potential. Neat!! :goggle: