Where do you get the conclusion that 1h bw has shorter reach than 1h sword?

[USMC]

I think I have seen multiple people claiming that a 1h bw has a shorter range than a 1h sword. I'm not sure where they get it, but I always thought they had the same range.

So I decided to test it out on leps. For short, what I did was:

Equip a bw, stand next to a lep, attack a few times, cannot reach, move slowly till I can finally reach it.

And then I switched to a 1h sword, and there was no way I could reach the lep without moving closer.

My conclusion comes out to be 1h bw has a longer ranger than 1h sword o.O

Note:
bw I used: Pig illustrated.
sword I used: Red kanata

attack used: normal attack
supportive skill used: maxed mastery for both and booster.


Edit:
The longest reaching animation seems to be the slash from your right hand side to your left hand side, when facing right.(hope somebody understands this, too lazy to post a pic)

[Kortestanov]

I think I have seen multiple people claiming that a 1h bw has a shorter range than a 1h sword. I'm not sure where they get it, but I always thought they had the same range.

So I decided to test it out on leps. For short, what I did was:

Equip a bw, stand next to a lep, attack a few times, cannot reach, move slowly till I can finally reach it.

And then I switched to a 1h sword, and there was no way I could reach the lep without moving closer.

My conclusion comes out to be 1h bw has a longer ranger than 1h sword o.O

Note:
bw I used: Pig illustrated.
sword I used: Red kanata

attack used: normal attack
supportive skill used: maxed mastery for both and booster.


Edit:
The longest reaching animation seems to be the slash from your right hand side to your left hand side, when facing right.(hope somebody understands this, too lazy to post a pic)
I know that skills have hitboxes inside the wz files, not sure about weapons. There are probably two options: 1.every weapon has a hitbox of his own
2.the whole "regular attack" function has a hitbox (in which case all weapons should hit the same range)

[Noah]

I know that skills have hitboxes inside the wz files, not sure about weapons. There are probably two options: 1.every weapon has a hitbox of his own
2.the whole "regular attack" function has a hitbox (in which case all weapons should hit the same range)

None of the weapons do actually have hitboxes, theoretically speaking. Practically, they do, but they are not connected to the weapon. If that were the case, then "hey, ily, Seraphim cs weapon" for me.

They are connected to the aftereffects a skill does. If there's no certain range on the skill used, then the skill has no set aftereffect-range. The aftereffect applied then is the flashy aftereffect used with a normal attack. You know, when mastering weapon mastery, it's the thing which changes colour. Anddd, the aftereffect applied is noted down for every weapon inside the wz-files. There are small and big ranges for 1h and 2h swords, but I'm unsure what ranges 1h and 2h bw/axe uses. Something to ask Fiel about? :)

[Takebacker]

Try the longer version of the 1h sword/BW? Both of those weapons ranges are s'hit.

[USMC]

So weapons under the same category(1handed/2handed/spear/polearm) actually have different range? o.O

Also it always seemed to me that slash blast's hit box magically expands when you're hitting more than 1mob, anyone notice that?

[Morgana]

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/4486/swordrangecomparisonby7.jpg
from KajitiSoul's guide (http://www.southperry.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3602)

^This is with Blast pre-KMS updates, though, so the 1H ranges are longer now. Anyway, there are short/long 2H swords and short/long 1H swords. Red Katana is a short 1H sword, so that's probably why you found its range shorter than the 1H BW you tested.

Japanese Map is the highest-level short 2H sword. Most high level 1H swords are short, except Dragon Carabella and Sparta.

According to the same guide, BWs just have 1H and 2H ranges, not short/long.

[USMC]

^Interesting, thanks.

[Stereo]

edit:
The longest reaching animation seems to be the slash from your right hand side to your left hand side, when facing right.(hope somebody understands this, too lazy to post a pic)

Unless you like missing 4/5 of the time it'd be nice to also know the range of the other 4 animations :P


What I understood from personal time spent with the various weapons of Fighter/Page is this:
Stabs always have low vertical range, slashes always have bigger vertical range. (this applies to spear/PA too)
BW/Axe stabs have short horizontal range, sword stabs have long horizontal range.
Sword slashes have short horizontal range, BW/Axe stabs have long horizontal range (note: I only compared the "short" 2h swords here, as my Sword Fighter is only level 3x and uses a Lionheart).

[ShadyPriest]

So weapons under the same category(1handed/2handed/spear/polearm) actually have different range? o.O

Also it always seemed to me that slash blast's hit box magically expands when you're hitting more than 1mob, anyone notice that?

For visual proof of this:

http://sleepywood.net/forum/showpost.php?p=8158317&postcount=328

(It doesn't apply to spears/polearms though)

[USMC]

Unless you like missing 4/5 of the time it'd be nice to also know the range of the other 4 animations :P


What I understood from personal time spent with the various weapons of Fighter/Page is this:
Stabs always have low vertical range, slashes always have bigger vertical range. (this applies to spear/PA too)
BW/Axe stabs have short horizontal range, sword stabs have long horizontal range.
Sword slashes have short horizontal range, BW/Axe stabs have long horizontal range (note: I only compared the "short" 2h swords here, as my Sword Fighter is only level 3x and uses a Lionheart).

^quick observation on newt with a red kanata:

From longest reach to shortest:

Slash from right hand side to left hand side when facing right.
Upward slash.
Upper stab.
Lower stab.
Downward slash.

[Takebacker]

So weapons under the same category(1handed/2handed/spear/polearm) actually have different range? o.O

Also it always seemed to me that slash blast's hit box magically expands when you're hitting more than 1mob, anyone notice that?

Red katana is in the class of being the fastest sword in the game, as well as being the one with the shortest reach. If i remember right, there's only 2 classes of 1h weapon ranges and there's only a few that are in the one with smaller range. The swords that i can think of that's one of the smaller ones are the red katana and the lv 30 sword. Maybe the lunchbox, but i've never used a lunchbox so i wouldn't know.

1h BW might have the same classing, but i don't know since i've never played a BW pally.

Try your test again. :O Though i've never really heard anyone say that 1h BWs are shorter than 1h swords lol.

[USMC]

Arg BSoD while typing up >.<

And btw, maple down?(guess that's the reason of BSoD)


Edit: Just tried out a 1h sword tube(the watermelon one), and it appears to be the "longer" one. Gonna get a 1h bw one to see if bw has the "longer" version.

Edit: Got the 1h bw tube, apparently it's the same range as a pig illustrated.

Another edit: While the 1h bw tube is short ranged, the 1h axe tube is actually long range, same as the long 1h sword tube. And tried out lv15/25/30 axes, too, they are all long ranged...Why do page/wk/pallies get the short end of the stick everytime? >.<

[Fiel]

The weapon range hitboxes are defined in the WZ files under Character/Afterimage. In each weapon, the Afterimage used to determine the hit range is defined. Since the hit range is not defined on cash shop weapons (such as the seraphim), utilizing a cash shop weapon over a regular weapon will not affect the hit range.

All 1H Maces are defined as "mace"
1H Swords have two possible designations - "SwordOS" and "SwordOL" (Sword 1H Short, Sword 1H Long)

Of course, the pig illustrated is defined as a "mace". The Red Katana is defined as "SwordOS". Let's have a look at some attack ranges here.

The following defines a box. "lt" stands for "left top", "rb" stands for "right bottom". Simply add the absolute value of the y-coordinates and the absolute value of the x-coordinates to get the size of the box.

Mace: Swing
swingO1.lt.x - (-77)
swingO1.lt.y - (-61)
swingO1.rb.x - (0)
swingO1.rb.y - (-9)

WidthBox = |-77| + |0| = 77
HeightBox = |-61| + |-9| = 70
AreaBox = 77 * 70 = 5390 pixels

SwordOS: Swing
swingO1.lt.x - (-85)
swingO1.lt.y - (-51)
swingO1.rb.x - (-11)
swingO1.rb.y - (-11)

WidthBox = |-85| + |-11| = 96
HeightBox = |-51| + |-11| = 62
AreaBox = 96 * 62 = 5952 pixels

That means on a swing, a sword will have about a 10% larger hit box. Swords which are designated as "SwordOL", such as a Maple Sword, will have an even larger hit box.

SwordOL: Swing
swingO1.lt.x - (-88)
swingO1.lt.y - (-62)
swingO1.rb.x - (-18)
swingO1.rb.y - (-6)

WidthBox = |-88| + |-18| = 106
HeightBox = |-62| + |-6| = 68
AreaBox = 106 * 68 = 7208 pixels

This means that a long 1H sword has a 34% increase in hitbox size over a 1H mace! I'd call that a large improvement.

[Flaxative]

Wow. Where did all those numbers even come from? Also, that means 1h bw are basically useless, right?

[MasPan]

I'd imagine Crimson Arcglaives have one of the biggest reaches of any weapon, maybe STs are up there too.

[Flaxative]

What is a ST? Also, is a Arcglaive huge or something?

[MasPan]

What is a ST? Also, is a Arcglaive huge or something?

Stonetooth, and yes. To put it in perspective, it is taller than/as tall as skis, Stonetooth, any other PA/Spear, to the point that it pushes game windows/shop windows higher than normal. Just by standing when I open my shop, it is a good half a maple head higher than other shops. I'll ss this when not at work.

[Fiel]

An Arcglaive has the same reach as any other polearm. Stonetooth is SwordTL.

poleArm: Swing (polearms do not have a type "T1" swing)
swingT2.lt.x - (-120)
swingT2.lt.y - (-125)
swingT2.rb.x - (-52)
swingT2.rb.y - (20)

WidthBox = |-120| + |-52| = 172
HeightBox = |-125| + |20| = 145
AreaBox = 172 * 145 = 24,940 pixels

SwordTL: Swing
swingT1.lt.x - (-100)
swingT1.lt.y - (-95)
swingT1.rb.x - (-47)
swingT1.rb.y - (2)

WidthBox = |-100| + |-47| = 147
HeightBox = |-95| + |2| = 97
AreaBox = 147 * 97 = 14,259 pixels

[USMC]

Thanks fiel for all those numbers(having hard time figuring out the exact meaning of those numbers, but I get the idea xD)

@MasPan:

Weapon largeness has nothing to do with their hit box, it's the type of weapon they are defined that determines their range.



Edit: Fiel beat me to it o.o

[Fiel]

Thanks fiel for all those numbers(having hard time figuring out the exact meaning of those numbers, but I get the idea xD)

I can explain it in more simple terms.

Picture a coordinate plane in your head. Your Maple character is standing on the coordinate plane, with the bottom center of his feet located at (0, 0), or the origin. In order to define the hitbox, Maplestory defines two points on the coordinate plane - the "left top" point and the "right bottom" point. It might help you if you have a piece of graph paper to do this. For now, let's have a look at maces.

Mace: Swing
swingO1.lt.x - (-77)
swingO1.lt.y - (-61)
swingO1.rb.x - (0)
swingO1.rb.y - (-9)

Another odd thing that Maplestory does is flip all of the coordinates about the X axis (multiplies the y-coordinate by -1). So, by performing this mirroring across the X-axis, here's how it looks:

Mace: Swing
swingO1.lt.x - (-77)
swingO1.lt.y - (61)
swingO1.rb.x - (0)
swingO1.rb.y - (9)

So, now we have two points in which to define our box - The left top point (-77, 61) and the right bottom point (0, 9). To define the other two coordinates, we simply have to imagine the "right bottom" point extending forever upwards and forever leftwards, and imagine the "top left" point extending forever to the right and forever downwards. The points in which these four lines intersect creates our box.

Now, the reason for the addition that I had below each set of coordinates is simple. Remember, your character is standing on the x-axis of the coordinate plane facing toward the left. In order to find the width of the box, you must add the x-coordinate of the point in front of you (-77) and the x-coordinate of the point behind you (0). But, since it is impossible to have a negative width for a box, we instead take the absolute value of both coordinates to give us the correct width (77). To get the height, take the y-coordinate value of the point in front of you (61) and the point behind you (9) and add them together. We still need to take the absolute value of both numbers, but this does not affect the end result of the correct height (70). So now we have our height and width and can calculate the area of the box.

[MasPan]

An Arcglaive has the same reach as any other polearm. Stonetooth is SwordTL.

poleArm: Swing (polearms do not have a type "T1" swing)
swingT2.lt.x - (-120)
swingT2.lt.y - (-125)
swingT2.rb.x - (-52)
swingT2.rb.y - (20)

WidthBox = |-120| + |-52| = 172
HeightBox = |-125| + |20| = 145
AreaBox = 172 * 145 = 24,940 pixels

SwordTL: Swing
swingT1.lt.x - (-100)
swingT1.lt.y - (-95)
swingT1.rb.x - (-47)
swingT1.rb.y - (2)

WidthBox = |-100| + |-47| = 147
HeightBox = |-95| + |2| = 97
AreaBox = 147 * 97 = 14,259 pixels

Hmm, good to know. Coulda sworn that surfboards and the lv 50 PA (The Nine Dragons) had a shorter reach, but I guess that's false then. Nine Dragons in particular is one hell of a short PA, about the same length as an average 2h sword.

[Stereo]

An Arcglaive has the same reach as any other polearm. Stonetooth is SwordTL.

poleArm: Swing (polearms do not have a type "T1" swing)
swingT2.lt.x - (-120)
swingT2.lt.y - (-125)
swingT2.rb.x - (-52)
swingT2.rb.y - (20)

WidthBox = |-120| + |-52| = 172
HeightBox = |-125| + |20| = 145
AreaBox = 172 * 145 = 24,940 pixels

Dunno why you use absolute values like that o.o isn't that bounding box like this?
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/1428/poleswingx.png
Size of this box is |(-120-(-52)) x (-125-20)| = 9860 px


I'm not sure if that's the right swing but it's hard to catch them since they're very similar. 1 starts in front of the body, 2 behind and come from slightly different locations. This is one of the 'back' ones, not sure which.

[USMC]

I can explain it in more simple terms.

Picture a coordinate plane in your head. Your Maple character is standing on the coordinate plane, with the bottom center of his feet located at (0, 0), or the origin. In order to define the hitbox, Maplestory defines two points on the coordinate plane - the "left top" point and the "right bottom" point. It might help you if you have a piece of graph paper to do this. For now, let's have a look at maces.

Mace: Swing
swingO1.lt.x - (-77)
swingO1.lt.y - (-61)
swingO1.rb.x - (0)
swingO1.rb.y - (-9)

Another odd thing that Maplestory does is flip all of the coordinates about the X axis (multiplies the y-coordinate by -1). So, by performing this mirroring across the X-axis, here's how it looks:

Mace: Swing
swingO1.lt.x - (-77)
swingO1.lt.y - (61)
swingO1.rb.x - (0)
swingO1.rb.y - (9)

So, now we have two points in which to define our box - The left top point (-77, 61) and the right bottom point (0, 9). To define the other two coordinates, we simply have to imagine the "right bottom" point extending forever upwards and forever leftwards, and imagine the "top left" point extending forever to the right and forever downwards. The points in which these four lines intersect creates our box.

Now, the reason for the addition that I had below each set of coordinates is simple. Remember, your character is standing on the x-axis of the coordinate plane facing toward the left. In order to find the width of the box, you must add the x-coordinate of the point in front of you (-77) and the x-coordinate of the point behind you (0). But, since it is impossible to have a negative width for a box, we instead take the absolute value of both coordinates to give us the correct width (77). To get the height, take the y-coordinate value of the point in front of you (61) and the point behind you (9) and add them together. We still need to take the absolute value of both numbers, but this does not affect the end result of the correct height (70). So now we have our height and width and can calculate the area of the box.

Just reread everything carefully, and apparently I got it, xD.

Btw do you have the numbers for other animations for all warrior weapons? It would be nice to know.

Thanks.