Luck Bishop?

[Stereo]

I was sitting at Zakum, just chilling, on a Thief with 400 odd avoid, and I noticed how it hardly ever gets hit by 1/1s (maybe 2/3 miss rate) His other status effects (Lightning seals and flame pillars stun iirc) also missed pretty often.

It occured to me that this would be a desireable feature in a Bishop.


However (obviously) there are also drawbacks. Damage and healing capabilities are based on total magic, so this reduces those capabilities. But for a support class, is that worth it?


With the existence of level 163 Elemental Staffs (which require 165 luk, but no int afaik) there is some basis for doing this. They have 178 matk, and can kinda compensate for being higher-luk. The other magician weapons don't require much int, but they do require it (Blue Marine, 288 int...)




Before devising a solid plan I think I need more information though-
1) How much HP should heal be giving party members in a party of 6
2) How much matk is needed to support training (this is likely to be stricter than part 1 - but if it is assumed to be level 30 Genesis for 2hko Skeles it's not too bad)
3) How much avoid is gained by adding luk on a Magician? (appears to be 0.7)
3) How much does avoid actually affect hitrate

With the magician damage/heal formulas pretty well known, #1 and 2 can be used to determine how much int/matk is necessary. Then #3 and 4 can be used to figure out what benefit the player would get from doing this.

Other considerations would be choice of gear (overall luk scrolls add luk+avoid, shoe dex scrolls add avoid) to further improve the miss rates.

[USMC]

I don't think this is gonna work out..

[/sarcasm] Everybody made bishop to heal and support other classes right? [sarcasm]

[butterfλi]

I was sitting at Zakum, just chilling, on a Thief with 400 odd avoid, and I noticed how it hardly ever gets hit by 1/1s (maybe 2/3 miss rate) His other status effects (Lightning seals and flame pillars stun iirc) also missed pretty often.

It occured to me that this would be a desireable feature in a Bishop.
I think you can say that for every class, not just bishop lol.

(Endgame) Weapon-wise, I think even a blue marine would be the better choice than the level 163 elemental weapon for the factors of availability to scroll and price. Level 163 weapons has higher matk and also higher luk requirement so it balances itself out if you do that math and its basically a fancy looking marine.

As nice a feature of having high avoid is, I don't think it's benefit would outweigh its cost. Money issues aside (high avoid = less getting hit = more money saved on pots), the high avoid would only be nice to save you from death if you lag after 1/1 or something; also keeping in mind that bishops will never compare to the avoid of a thief so the difference would be very neglectable.

[Dusk]

I don't think the avoid benefit would outweigh the cost of having lower max MP.

[Stereo]

I think you can say that for every class, not just bishop lol.

(Endgame) Weapon-wise, I think even a blue marine would be the better choice than the level 163 elemental weapon for the factors of availability to scroll and price. Level 163 weapons has higher matk and also higher luk requirement so it balances itself out if you do that math and its basically a fancy looking marine.

I'm talking probably 300+ luk, meaning the difference between a Marine and a 163 Elemental is about 70 base matk, with no benefit to using the lower one, until they fix the elemental weapons.


Min matk for 30 gen to 100% 2ko Skeles is around 900. (is it? this is just a rough estimate)

Take some gear...
190/8 staff 6
6 int overall
4 int gloves/shoes
9 int 15 ma earrings
8/8 cape
22/22 pendant
25/15 helm
---
332 magic from gear
@ 163 I believe you have 845 base AP to spend.
Assuming 670 total int from MW19+base, that's 610 int, 234 luk. With a total around 320 luk (assuming overall is luk scrolled) and 40-45 from gear you'd have about 270-280 avoid... which is a little under half a similar level Thief.



If you're lukless until you hit 610 base int, you don't lose much MP.. and it's not about being missed so you take less damage, it's about being missed on the status effects (1/1 you need to MP pot, stun you can't get out of at all...)

[butterfλi]

I'm talking probably 300+ luk, meaning the difference between a Marine and a 163 Elemental is about 70 base matk, with no benefit to using the lower one, until they fix the elemental weapons.


Min matk for 30 gen to 100% 2ko Skeles is around 900. (is it? this is just a rough estimate)

Take some gear...
190/8 staff 6
6 int overall
4 int gloves/shoes
9 int 15 ma earrings
8/8 cape
22/22 pendant
25/15 helm
---
332 magic from gear
@ 163 I believe you have 845 base AP to spend.
Assuming 670 total int from MW19+base, that's 610 int, 234 luk. With a total around 320 luk (assuming overall is luk scrolled) and 40-45 from gear you'd have about 270-280 avoid... which is a little under half a similar level Thief.


Speaking of fix, a possible consequence of a bishop using a level 163 elemental weapon is that the .75 reduce may or may not be fixed. If it does get fixed, then your bishop will suffer not 1h-killing skeles until 17x or so assuming you can get gen30. With avoid in the high 200s, you'd have as much avoid as a level 10x thief I believe.

You can also use avoid interchangeably for int; wear avoid equips/scrolls so that you waste less points for luk: shoes for avoid, 10 avoid from sauna robe, face avoid etc

[Holypie]

if you want godlike avoid make a dex brawler. =/

[Stereo]

But Brawlers don't have Heal or Dispel...


I think in terms of training, 2 sets (luk/avoid and int gear) is the way to go, I haven't figured out everything available but I guess I'll work on it. You would be unlikely to have any base luk problems..

[Morgana]

Actually, avoid is useful for soloing too. As a cleric/priest/bishop you tend to be sitting in the middle of a mob AOEing it, and not being knocked out of the middle of the mob is nice. It's nothing special, but turning on Bless for the 20 avoid it gives can help a lot, particularly when it's a mob that's a lot lower in level than you are.

Good luck with this. At 4th job, people will be upset at you for not having high damage...

And to be honest, 1/1s are not that difficult to survive for me. My HP and MP flash and it's obvious. It's Pap's dispel that really gets me, and that's not avoidable. Stun, too, I guess... it doesn't kill me, practically ever, but it keeps me from healing my party. Come to think of it, I doubt I've ever died at a boss except for pot lag and dispel. The avoid could probably only help with the pot lag part...

Also... GL getting to 163. I'm 121 with 50 LUK and I'm a long way from 1hko'ing Harps with any sort of frequency. A funded lukless the same level who I got Gen with said he'd be able to 100% 1hko them. =/

[Tikey]

It's Pap's dispel that really gets me, and that's not avoidable. Stun, too, I guess... it doesn't kill me, practically ever, but it keeps me from healing my party. Come to think of it, I doubt I've ever died at a boss except for pot lag and dispel. The avoid could probably only help with the pot lag part...

Pap's dispel and stun are both avoidable. They do not affect anyone that's on the top platforms. Of course, you run the risk of taking 7-8k (5-6k for Priest) damage.

[Potth]

If you want avoid make a shadower. Go lukless.

[MasPan]

If you want avoid make a shadower. Go lukless.

You completely missed the point of the thread, which was to make a Support character for bossing (primarily Zakum if I read correctly) that wouldn't be stunned/1/1'd as easily and is therefore more helpful.

[Potth]

I didnt miss the point of thread, but it doesnt worth it, it wont get much avoid. Only if u want to make a mule to boss, then go low int bishop and put points in luk, then it might worth for bosses.

[Nalek]

Isnt heal based off of the Cleric/Priest/Bishop's own HP o.O

[VladTheLvr]

Isnt heal based off of the Cleric/Priest/Bishop's own HP o.O

Wouldnt you see moar HP pure clerics then?

[Manu]

Isnt heal based off of the Cleric/Priest/Bishop's own HP o.O
Someone made a Pure HP Cleric to test this theory and it failed.
The formula for healing is based in the magic and hp of the cleric/priest... apparently.

[Stereo]

Also... GL getting to 163. I'm 121 with 50 LUK and I'm a long way from 1hko'ing Harps with any sort of frequency. A funded lukless the same level who I got Gen with said he'd be able to 100% 1hko them. =/

I'm not actually going to do this... :p I don't do supporting classes, I like to solo too much. I realise it's possible for a Priest to solo but why would you want to.