Weapon Disparities

[MasPan]

Some things I've noticed about popular vs nonpopular weapons

Spear vs PA -
Most spears are 1 speed faster than their PA equivalent, many come with acc built in. Until the release of Arcglaives, Spears had the only normal speed high level equip. Many spear DKs try to justify this by saying Crusher is slower (I personally don't think that's the reason, as PAs would have a higher natural attack to compensate). Again, the Arcglaive helps, but its DEX requirement limits its usefulness to mostly low/normal DEX (some dexless can use, but few).

Sword vs Axe/BW -
Most swords are 1-2 speeds faster than their swing-weapon counterpart. Glowing whip has built in speed and is way above the average attack for a weapon of its level. Stonetooth and lunchbox are both strong and fast. Crushed skull helps a bit to narrow the gap on the 1h BW side, but the extra acc and high base attack still doesn't match up to the faster and more stable sword. Axes, on the other hand, get shafted for nice gear.

For daggers, the popularity switched based on ATT shields, not the other way around, so not going to mention them here.

Wands/staves have little difference, so won't be mentioned.

[Dusk]

Daggers are the same speed with booster anyway.

I really hate the Axe/BW and sword speed disparity. It's like they decided, "Oh no! axes have higher base att so let's make them slower. But wait, let's give them an inferior damage formula too, so that they're already weaker even with the higher base att."

[MasPan]

Daggers are the same speed with booster anyway.

I really hate the Axe/BW and sword speed disparity. It's like they decided, "Oh no! axes have higher base att so let's make them slower. But wait, let's give them an inferior damage formula too, so that they're already weaker even with the higher base att."

Indeed. For polearms it's even more ridiculous, in that there is no logical reasoning behind making most spears slow (7) and most PAs slow (8). The maple spear for 43 is fast speed, while the scorpio is normal. The lv 70 spear, Redemption, also has a few points of acc on it for no apparent reason, while no mainstream PA does.

[KajitiSouls]

You can check out my LOLPALLY guide for the (soon-to-be-updated) list of Swords and Blunt Weapons and stuff. Here are some weapons of interest to point out:

Red Katana and Lunchbox (1h Sword), fast(4) speed. Night Raven's Wing and Stonetooth Sword (2h Sword), fast(5) speed. Requires 95 and 120 DEX respectively. Lionheart and Japanese Map (2h Sword), fast(4) speed. I'm not joking either. Jap Map has a little less wAtk however. Morningstar (2h BW), normal(6) speed, as opposed to slow(7). Tiger's Fang (2h Sword), longer reach than other weapons around its level. Good luck getting this though, iTCG1.

[LeVuu]

Spear vs PA -
Most spears are 1 speed faster than their PA equivalent, many come with acc built in. Until the release of Arcglaives, Spears had the only normal speed high level equip. Many spear DKs try to justify this by saying Crusher is slower (I personally don't think that's the reason, as PAs would have a higher natural attack to compensate). Again, the Arcglaive helps, but its DEX requirement limits its usefulness to mostly low/normal DEX (some dexless can use, but few).


There's a reason why most Spearmen/DKs/DrKs were smart enough to go hybrid.

[Vernacular]

I would love to see a dagger warrior
:goggle:

[MasPan]

There's a reason why most Spearmen/DKs/DrKs were smart enough to go hybrid.

I resent that highly - when I made my character, hybrids were still a relatively new concept for DKs. I was new to the game as well, and the frickin NPC even recommended mastering a single weapon over both. I'm also more than a match for any Spear DrK in my level range when training. It has nothing to do with intelligence - those who are new to the game will generally listen to the advice of NPCs. In this case, Dances with Balrogs advises something that may not be the best available option. Anyways, I'm still waiting for the day Nexon realizes how screwed up PA Crusher and Spear Fury are damage-wise (especially considering there is no mention in the skill about them doing drastically lower damage than what is described) and correct them. Regardless, there is no excuse on Nexon's part to release improperly balanced weapons.

@ Vern, a DrK would be best for that - Zerk doubles damage regardless of what weapon is used, and HB makes you still useful in parties. Dragon's Blood and Beholder's many buffs help compensate a bit for being weaker. Power strike works with daggers (and, oddly, wands). However, you're still going to see a range of 4xx-3xxx in most cases, 6xx-4xxx at best, so lack of mastery is going to greatly reduce damage stability.

[LeVuu]

I resent that highly - when I made my character, hybrids were still a relatively new concept for DKs. I was new to the game as well, and the frickin NPC even recommended mastering a single weapon over both.


Then I apologise, but you must understand my... stance on the matter, when 98% of the 'pure's that you see going "ong pure 4 lyf omg we rox" only fairly recently made them. Eventually you get sick of hearing about it, no matter which field it's in.

[Stereo]

Wish I could say I'm staying pure PA... I like Polearms more for looks. But if I ever make it to Dark Knight, I don't think I could stand to try berserking with Fury. It's meant for standing on mobs, not sniping...


btw what dex requirement does the Arcglaive have? I suspect my 85 is a little low but I don't know by how much.

[MetaSeraphim]

btw what dex requirement does the Arcglaive have? I suspect my 85 is a little low but I don't know by how much.

80.

[MasPan]

Wish I could say I'm staying pure PA... I like Polearms more for looks. But if I ever make it to Dark Knight, I don't think I could stand to try berserking with Fury. It's meant for standing on mobs, not sniping...


btw what dex requirement does the Arcglaive have? I suspect my 85 is a little low but I don't know by how much.

80, you're fine with 85. And zerking with fury actually works really well - fury's range coupled with rush allows you to easily stack mobs without standing in them, well within its range. At "omg PA 4 lyfe" complaint, I'm not like that - I like PA, and I'm fine with being a bit slower at bossing than most, if not all, other classes. Anyone I've trained with will tell you I more than hold my own, but I'm not blind enough to think that hybrids are any lower than pures. I simply want Nexon to find a way to balance pure weapons with hybrids because Dances with Balrogs even recommends single-mastery, and the slash/stab weaknesses/strengths are never referenced anywhere in-game. For someone who has never read a guide, using crusher with a PA, that could be quite confusing - "Why is my damage so low?"

My personal suggestion to Nexon would be to either make end-game weapons that ignore or reduce the penalties for weak hit-types, have a chance of calculating weak hit-types as strong instead, or just flat out reducing or eliminating that weakness. DrKs are the only class that can't use a skill to its full potential without switching weapons (I'm not talking about elemental weapons here). Given that they could code weapons to increase elemental damage, it doesn't seem unreasonable to code something that alters slash/stab damages.

[USMC]

It's intended, gotta have something to separate spear and pole arm, though it's not well balanced.

[MasPan]

It's intended, gotta have something to separate spear and pole arm, though it's not well balanced.

I know it's intended O.o
The balance was what this thread was directed at entirely lol.

[Stereo]

80, you're fine with 85. And zerking with fury actually works really well - fury's range coupled with rush allows you to easily stack mobs without standing in them, well within its range. At "omg PA 4 lyfe" complaint, I'm not like that - I like PA, and I'm fine with being a bit slower at bossing than most, if not all, other classes.

There's also the minor issue that at level 97 (maxed ER) I will have nothing left to put points on that actually helps me (Sacrifice has an aberrant HP cost for damage only marginally better than Fury - I can expect to be dealing 40k if I max Berserk, and I don't want to lose 2000 hp when I hit high). ~69 points goes a long way toward making 3rd job Hybrid reasonable.

[MasPan]

There's also the minor issue that at level 97 (maxed ER) I will have nothing left to put points on that actually helps me (Sacrifice has an aberrant HP cost for damage only marginally better than Fury - I can expect to be dealing 40k if I max Berserk, and I don't want to lose 2000 hp when I hit high). ~69 points goes a long way toward making 3rd job Hybrid reasonable.

Make sure you get some points of roar, enough to hit a pretty wide range. 20ish is a good number. I also maxed Crusher, as it is a bit slower, but has enough of a small edge over Fury that it serves as a good, consistent-damage finisher. Sacrifice is extremely useful for getting to zerk when you overpot or as a non-zerked attack (think rapid fire for corsairs, same principle - use it when you can't zerk safely). If Nexon ever alters it to cut through Super Wdef up it will become extremely useful. And yes, it has been responsible for 99% of my deaths while zerked due to accidental keypress + enemy attack. I have since moved it to a diff part of my keyboard.

[Stereo]

My first 60 points were PA Fury & Roar (yes roar is awesome.. I use it everywhere), after that nothing else seems useful to me >_> I can't think of a situation where I'd use the PA Crusher. It does 2% less DPS per target, the only advantage is that with 3 hits it's less likely to miss completely.

[MasPan]

My first 60 points were PA Fury & Roar (yes roar is awesome.. I use it everywhere), after that nothing else seems useful to me >_> I can't think of a situation where I'd use the PA Crusher. It does 2% less DPS per target, the only advantage is that with 3 hits it's less likely to miss completely.

Crusher's average hit is higher than Fury's, even with a PA. There are plenty of situations that come up for me that would require 2 hits to kill with Fury, but only 1 with Crusher. This is very common with area bosses for 13x or so, particularly things like King Clang. When blinded it can be useful to do some damage as well. With pap, it's good to use while he is closing or opening as a quick burst of damage.

[Nintendo_Otaku]

you should notice bynow. nexon hates polearm dks. i think they hate us with a passion. all of are skills are pro spear. polearm crusher > polearm fury. there are alot of things messed up with our class but since 4000 ppl max in the maple population world wide has a pa dk 100+ we have no voice to complain about it. lol

[MasPan]

you should notice bynow. nexon hates polearm dks. i think they hate us with a passion. all of are skills are pro spear. polearm crusher > polearm fury. there are alot of things messed up with our class but since 4000 ppl max in the maple population world wide has a pa dk 100+ we have no voice to complain about it. lol

I'd love to see one of 2 things happen -
DrKs given a skill that forces swing/stab to happen regardless of what skill is used (would be FUN with power strike + FA)
Slash/Stab penalties dramatically reduced (cut in half maybe. Even doing 40k crushers when a spearDK would do 50ks would be nice).

Also, sacrifice needs to not take HP when zerk is active. That completely kills any 1v1 potential a PADrK has in 4th job, as our best single target skill nearly kills us. At least the Bain Polearm looks to give PAs a decent edge - fast (4) and 100 base att at lv 58. No info on a spear yet.

[Nintendo_Otaku]

tell me more about this polearm. at lvl 58? should have some drawbacks.
i would like the purple surfboard(msea) to come out.

i think giving fury more % att would fix alot of the problems. 16x3 is my max dmg with crusher and after defenses fury comes no where near. once you put in an apple and se you see just how much better spear crusher is than fury

[MasPan]

tell me more about this polearm. at lvl 58? should have some drawbacks.
i would like the purple surfboard(msea) to come out.

i think giving fury more % att would fix alot of the problems. 16x3 is my max dmg with crusher and after defenses fury comes no where near. once you put in an apple and se you see just how much better spear crusher is than fury

Lv 58, 160 str required, binds to char when equipped, fast (4), 100 base att. 7 Slots. It drops from the Grandpa Balrog. It's still in testing at the moment.

[Nintendo_Otaku]

that weapon is godley. im waiting to see the catch. it would be funny if nexon said only pures could use it. or maybe it expires. but a wapon of that speed. even if it were scrolled to 116 it would be great.

[MasPan]

that weapon is godley. im waiting to see the catch. it would be funny if nexon said only pures could use it. or maybe it expires. but a wapon of that speed. even if it were scrolled to 116 it would be great.

116 would be God-tier endgame. Even my Arcglaive (114 normal speed) is considered to be endgame material, but I want to make a 120+ before I stop upgrading my weapon.

[Nintendo_Otaku]

Nice. but i say we stop getting our hopes up. thease weapsons = to good. might take it away after u time warp out of old maplestory. or something like that.
do you know anything about the Mulung training place? we got slots on our equip section for belt. so the belt is either for pinkbean or mulung

[Blaine]

What exactly do PA DrK's hit with Sacrifice? I've hit between 130-160k with Sharp Eyes with it, and 30-90k without it.

Keep in mind I'm level 184 and have a 126 attack Pinaka...dunno how that compares to Pole Arms.

[Kim41]

What exactly do PA DrK's hit with Sacrifice? I've hit between 130-160k with Sharp Eyes with it, and 30-90k without it.

Keep in mind I'm level 184 and have a 126 attack Pinaka...dunno how that compares to Pole Arms.

Of course it wouldn't be much different with polearm drks. The build itself has nothing to do with the damage you do for sacrifice. I usually don't use sacrifice+zerk+apple, so I'm not sure of my damage, but take into consideration the fact that polearms are much cheaper than spears, so in general, a polearm drk would have a higher range than a drk using a spear. Not to mention the fact that sacrifice is 3:2 slash/stab, thus a polearm using drk would have higher damage using sacrifice on average.

[Blaine]

I kinda figured that...but I meant how much more, on average? Or just tell me what you/some other high level PA DrK you know hits.

[Kim41]

I kinda figured that...but I meant how much more, on average? Or just tell me what you/some other high level PA DrK you know hits.

What does the damage of one pa drk matter to you? I thought I already clarified that the damage a pa user does with sacrifice is no different than a spear user other than the fact that the pa user will be hitting their strong hits more often. If you must compare your damage, you could just as easily ask a hybrid wielding a polearm, or just calculate your damage with 5 more att or whatever att polearm you could afford if you bought a polearm instead of a spear.

[Blaine]

I was just curious...jeez. :f4: Khaini's DrK corps are thinning every day. There aren't any high level PA DrK's there to ask. And I have no idea what the pole arm equivalent to my spear is.